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Performance Talk: Intelcore i-7 4790 good CPU for this game?

froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users
edited December 2018 in General Discussion
Ok, first of all I don't know where to post this. There's no real place to discuss performance rather than head for support, so I guess I will post it here until someone else moves it.

My specs are as follows:

Screen Monitor: Benq 24" LCD Modelnumber: ET-0027-B
OS: Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Mobo: MSI B85M-E45, Socket-1150
GPU: Nvidia Geforce GTX 1080 X Gaming 8GB
CPU: Intel core i-7 4790 3.60GHz / max 4.00GHz (quad core, 8 threads, 8mb cache)
RAM: HyperX Fury DDR3 1866 16GB RAM (two 8GB)
HDD: Kingston 120GB SSD (OS), Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD (Installed)
PSU: Cooler Master G750M, 750W PSU
(If I missed something, tell me so I can update)

I know this game is very CPU heavy, so I am wondering if my CPU even holds up? I have talked to this Englishman who says that my CPU is one of the best (which I have sincerely doubted for a very long time. But he finds ways to convince me otherwise.) I can get really big FPS drops ranging from 20 fps to 15 fps zoomed in on a 20vs20 battle.
Anything over that I get stutters.

Keep in mind that I use mods, alot that affect performance (in a good way) like "No Dust mod", "Subtle trails mod" and "Performance mod".

Here are my settings:


Here are some premade benchmarks:

Battle benchmark:


Skaven benchmark:



Here's a battle where used MSI afterburner to monitor my FPS (and many other things like coretemp, gpu load and temp, RAMusage)

Here it's really poor for some reason. Map reasons?:




And then there are places like these when FPS is somewhat stable:





And here are idle images, when FPS is at it's peak:




Please, leave your thoughs on this.
Post edited by frolof on
«1

Comments

  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users
    edited December 2018
    Before you ask, yes, I have cooling issues. the temperature can reach above 80 degrees, which means it's over the "safe zone" for CPU usage and enough for my GPU's fans to trigger. Not too bad though, 70 is in this degree quite alright for a game like this. I am more comfortable with 60 degree GPU usage.
  • FakeEmperorFakeEmperor Posts: 592Registered Users
    Do you play with ultra setting?
    Huge fps drops are nornal for this game, especially in big battles when the camera is zoomed in, btw if you tweak some graphical options you can make the game more stable:
    1. Play in DX11
    2. Turn off shadows
    3. Turn off SSAO
    4. Turn off sub space reflections
    5. Set portrait to 2D

  • Bogdanov89Bogdanov89 Posts: 590Registered Users
    edited December 2018
    I have 4790k and play on 1920*1080 on my GTX 1060 6GB (some video settings are medium, some high).

    Frankly i have no issues what so ever and even if i encounter FPS below 60 it is because of the GPU or because the game's engine is struggling.

    So far my 4790k cpu is rather bored, rarely if ever going above 70% usage.

    It could be an issue with your OS, background software, drivers, Nvidia settings (in control panel), thermal/heat issues (is your CPU thermal paste new and good quality?) etc etc.
    Check out the Community Bug Fix Mod on the Steam Workshop.
  • Bogdanov89Bogdanov89 Posts: 590Registered Users
    edited December 2018
    The reason why 4790k is such a good CPU is that its per-core performance is extremely high.
    So when games can only use 2 or 4 cores the 4790K shines even compared to the modern CPU in its original price range.

    Just make sure that the thermal paste under it is GOOD quality and that its properly applied and the cooler cleaned and seated.
    PC shops/workshops do this kind of stuff for really cheap where i live and it takes like an hour for em to do it.

    Google "best cpu thermal paste", since they are all really cheap you might as well go for the best one considering how many years that single tube is gonna be useful to you.
    And tell them to get all that nasty dust and filth out of your PC case, cpu fan, PSU fan etc.

    ALSO what is your CPU cooler?
    Please tell me you got some serious CPU cooler like Noctua or something equally awesome?
    You MUST NOT use the default little intel cooler that comes with i7 cpus in games.
    Post edited by dge1 on
    Check out the Community Bug Fix Mod on the Steam Workshop.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Posts: 1,367Registered Users
    What's your battle benchmark result and resolution tho? I get 52 fps with a much older i5-2400 and RX [email protected] high. (ssao off, fxaa, dx11) Compared to this you "shouldn't" ever drop below 60 fps with that system.
  • GettoGeckoGettoGecko Posts: 801Registered Users
    I'm not a real tech guy but your GPU is rarely used except when you are zoomed out and your CPU is like you said freaking hot. My GPU is always at 100% when I run this game no matter if I'm zoomed in or not and well my CPU isn't used that much. I run it in 1980x1080 windowed mode with these settings

    and get these results on a dark wooded map with max trees and gras.




    I had a video stream and music stream running on the second tv while recording this so the CPU usage isn't that representative but I assume that your CPU heat might result in some trottleing effects hardware or software wise because to me it doesn't make any sense that your GPU usage goes down as you zoom in.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users

    Do you play with ultra setting?
    Huge fps drops are nornal for this game, especially in big battles when the camera is zoomed in, btw if you tweak some graphical options you can make the game more stable:
    1. Play in DX11
    2. Turn off shadows
    3. Turn off SSAO
    4. Turn off sub space reflections
    5. Set portrait to 2D

    I have added an image representing my current option spec. Sorry, forgot to add it on the get go
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users

    I have 4790k and play on 1920*1080 on my GTX 1060 6GB (some video settings are medium, some high).

    Frankly i have no issues what so ever and even if i encounter FPS below 60 it is because of the GPU or because the game's engine is struggling.

    So far my 4790k cpu is rather bored, rarely if ever going above 70% usage.

    It could be an issue with your OS, background software, drivers, Nvidia settings (in control panel), thermal/heat issues (is your CPU thermal paste new and good quality?) etc etc.

    My CPU stands at like 40% usage most of the time, but gets really got fast.

    Check the images, added my Option specs.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users

    The reason why 4790k is such a good CPU is that its per-core performance is extremely high.
    So when games can only use 2 or 4 cores the 4790K shines even compared to the modern CPU in its original price range.

    Just make sure that the thermal paste under it is GOOD quality and that its properly applied and the cooler cleaned and seated.
    PC shops/workshops do this kind of stuff for really cheap where i live and it takes like an hour for em to do it.

    Google "best cpu thermal paste", since they are all really cheap you might as well go for the best one considering how many years that single tube is gonna be useful to you.
    And tell them to get all that nasty dust and filth out of your PC case, cpu fan, PSU fan etc.

    ALSO what is your CPU cooler?
    Please tell me you got some serious CPU cooler like Noctua or something equally awesome?
    You MUST NOT use the default little intel cooler that comes with i7 cpus in games.

    Yeah, I don't have the K version, I have just 4790. I have cleaned my Heat sink and fan before and bough pretty much industrial thermal paste and cleaned the CPU with Isopropanol 95%. So far I've had good results. Was probably worse before.

    I have standard fan, never changed. I have been thinking of a solid Water cooling system, but worried it won't fit my Midi-Tower.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users

    What's your battle benchmark result and resolution tho? I get 52 fps with a much older i5-2400 and RX [email protected] high. (ssao off, fxaa, dx11) Compared to this you "shouldn't" ever drop below 60 fps with that system.

    The benchmarks they supply are garbage. I have like 70-80 FPS average, but obviously that's not true if you look at the images.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users

    I'm not a real tech guy but your GPU is rarely used except when you are zoomed out and your CPU is like you said freaking hot. My GPU is always at 100% when I run this game no matter if I'm zoomed in or not and well my CPU isn't used that much. I run it in 1980x1080 windowed mode with these settings

    and get these results on a dark wooded map with max trees and gras.




    I had a video stream and music stream running on the second tv while recording this so the CPU usage isn't that representative but I assume that your CPU heat might result in some trottleing effects hardware or software wise because to me it doesn't make any sense that your GPU usage goes down as you zoom in.

    It's just so sad that

    I'm not a real tech guy but your GPU is rarely used except when you are zoomed out and your CPU is like you said freaking hot. My GPU is always at 100% when I run this game no matter if I'm zoomed in or not and well my CPU isn't used that much. I run it in 1980x1080 windowed mode with these settings

    and get these results on a dark wooded map with max trees and gras.




    I had a video stream and music stream running on the second tv while recording this so the CPU usage isn't that representative but I assume that your CPU heat might result in some trottleing effects hardware or software wise because to me it doesn't make any sense that your GPU usage goes down as you zoom in.

    What are your specs? You can send a DxDiag.
  • ApolyonApolyon Posts: 28Registered Users
    I have an i5-6400 with GTX1060 and I run TWW2 on Ultra settings with 3D portraits, SSAO, etc. in 1080p. What's the spec of your display ? And is your CPU strong enough to fully use the graphic potential of your GTX1080 ?
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users
    Apolyon said:

    I have an i5-6400 with GTX1060 and I run TWW2 on Ultra settings with 3D portraits, SSAO, etc. in 1080p. What's the spec of your display ? And is your CPU strong enough to fully use the graphic potential of your GTX1080 ?

    Here's the official site for it. I have no clue how you lot search for Hardware spec in your country. (I live in sweden)
    https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1080-GAMING-X-8G
  • ApolyonApolyon Posts: 28Registered Users
    Ok. No problem, you don't have to be a tech-guy to have a PC ;-)
    Which screen do you have ? Can you indicate us the model ? Your screen resolution could have an effect on your framerate.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users
    edited December 2018
    Apolyon said:

    Ok. No problem, you don't have to be a tech-guy to have a PC ;-)
    Which screen do you have ? Can you indicate us the model ? Your screen resolution could have an effect on your framerate.

    Oh absolutely not, I was probably the most ignorant guy regarding PC tech when I first got my PC :tongue:
    Alright, I will update the description in a moment.

    Here: Screen Monitor: Benq 24" LCD Modelnumber: ET-0027-B
  • GettoGeckoGettoGecko Posts: 801Registered Users
    Apolyon said:

    I have an i5-6400 with GTX1060 and I run TWW2 on Ultra settings with 3D portraits, SSAO, etc. in 1080p. What's the spec of your display ? And is your CPU strong enough to fully use the graphic potential of your GTX1080 ?

    No its not because when he zooms in the GPU usage goes down from 95% to 43% on some maps while the opposite should happen. But from the pictures its not clear if its a problem of the CPU because its completely used (which I doubt) or if its a heat problem which cause some soft- or hardware safety to reduce other components performance to stablisie the temperature.
    frolof said:

    What are your specs? You can send a DxDiag.

    Sure I could but that won't help you to find out if your CPU bottlenecks your GPU or if your cooling limits your CPU which results in an over all reduced performance to prevent your CPU from heat damage.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users

    Apolyon said:

    I have an i5-6400 with GTX1060 and I run TWW2 on Ultra settings with 3D portraits, SSAO, etc. in 1080p. What's the spec of your display ? And is your CPU strong enough to fully use the graphic potential of your GTX1080 ?

    No its not because when he zooms in the GPU usage goes down from 95% to 43% on some maps while the opposite should happen. But from the pictures its not clear if its a problem of the CPU because its completely used (which I doubt) or if its a heat problem which cause some soft- or hardware safety to reduce other components performance to stablisie the temperature.
    frolof said:

    What are your specs? You can send a DxDiag.

    Sure I could but that won't help you to find out if your CPU bottlenecks your GPU or if your cooling limits your CPU which results in an over all reduced performance to prevent your CPU from heat damage.
    So in the end, a good thing to invest on next is potential cooling. Got some neat suggestions for my rig?

    This is my tower: Komplett 200R Midi Tower Svart
  • NeverBackDownNeverBackDown Senior Member Posts: 1,822Registered Users
    edited December 2018
    80°C is fine and won't affect performance for the CPU.

    I would recommend getting better cooling however to extend the longevity of the CPU and then be able to overclock it to help minimize performance loss(ie a smaller range of large fps swinging)

    Other than that you just need to lower shadows, 2d portraits, lower screen space reflections, and turn off SSAO if you want to. These are the biggest performance hogs.

    Your system is fine. All you really need is to get better cooling and overclock. If you don't want to overclock then you just need to change some settings. Anyone telling you to upgrade a part is just wrong. Your system is more than enough.


    The game just has wild fps swings due to the nature of calculating shadows/reflections for each individual model. The more you zoom in the higher quality it renders the shadow/reflection for each model. It's very performance heavy. People always complain about the GPU usage falling a lot in TW, it's just the game not your hardware.


    As for you asking what to get for cooling you can get a Cryorig H7 or something else in that price range.
  • GettoGeckoGettoGecko Posts: 801Registered Users
    Well first you can turn on the CPU usage numbers in the Afterburner to make sure thats not a problem with the CPU usage and if thats the case you can check your Bios and cooling settings. For my I7 the cooling starts at 30°C with 50% going up to 75% at 65°C and than to 100% at 70°C with a safety temp of 80°C because Intel isn't that heat resilent as an AMD but at that time performance wise AMD had nothing near to an Intel CPU unlike today.

    So if its a temperature problem on your side just switch out your basic cooler for basically anything that cost more than 15€. I personally prefere the BeQuiet! products for basically every part that makes noise because for me thats a very important issue but if you only want to cool your PC just take any cooler in your prize range with a good performance and check if the air can leave your tower because your cooler can't work if the tower is in a box where the air can't circulate.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users

    80°C is fine and won't affect performance for the CPU.

    I would recommend getting better cooling however to extend the longevity of the CPU and then be able to overclock it to help minimize performance loss(ie a smaller range of large fps swinging)

    Other than that you just need to lower shadows, 2d portraits, lower screen space reflections, and turn off SSAO if you want to. These are the biggest performance hogs.

    Your system is fine. All you really need is to get better cooling and overclock. If you don't want to overclock then you just need to change some settings. Anyone telling you to upgrade a part is just wrong. Your system is more than enough.


    The game just has wild fps swings due to the nature of calculating shadows/reflections for each individual model. The more you zoom in the higher quality it renders the shadow/reflection for each model. It's very performance heavy. People always complain about the GPU usage falling a lot in TW, it's just the game not your hardware.


    As for you asking what to get for cooling you can get a Cryorig H7 or something else in that price range.

    Cheers, yes I have had many people saying that there's no need for upgrades. I did change my GPU GTX 970 for a GTX 1080. I am not too aware on the bottlenecking concept yet though, but apparently my CPU should work fine with the 1080. According to internet that is.

    Overclocking sounds scary and I have no idea how to do that. However, with sufficient cooling I might be secure enough to be fairly bold. But I wouldn't do it without someone supervising the procedure, or at least get a tutoring on the process.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users

    Well first you can turn on the CPU usage numbers in the Afterburner to make sure thats not a problem with the CPU usage and if thats the case you can check your Bios and cooling settings. For my I7 the cooling starts at 30°C with 50% going up to 75% at 65°C and than to 100% at 70°C with a safety temp of 80°C because Intel isn't that heat resilent as an AMD but at that time performance wise AMD had nothing near to an Intel CPU unlike today.

    So if its a temperature problem on your side just switch out your basic cooler for basically anything that cost more than 15€. I personally prefere the BeQuiet! products for basically every part that makes noise because for me thats a very important issue but if you only want to cool your PC just take any cooler in your prize range with a good performance and check if the air can leave your tower because your cooler can't work if the tower is in a box where the air can't circulate.

    My PC sure is noisy, so I have been thinking of changing the chassi fans and upgrade the cooling for the CPU with something really good. I've heared watercooling is the top of the game (again, heared.) when it comes to cooling.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users

    Well first you can turn on the CPU usage numbers in the Afterburner to make sure thats not a problem with the CPU usage and if thats the case you can check your Bios and cooling settings. For my I7 the cooling starts at 30°C with 50% going up to 75% at 65°C and than to 100% at 70°C with a safety temp of 80°C because Intel isn't that heat resilent as an AMD but at that time performance wise AMD had nothing near to an Intel CPU unlike today.

    So if its a temperature problem on your side just switch out your basic cooler for basically anything that cost more than 15€. I personally prefere the BeQuiet! products for basically every part that makes noise because for me thats a very important issue but if you only want to cool your PC just take any cooler in your prize range with a good performance and check if the air can leave your tower because your cooler can't work if the tower is in a box where the air can't circulate.

    My CPU usage ranged from around 50 to almost reaching 60 in campaign (depends on where you look) and in battle it can reach around the same, but more commonly reaching the 40's and even 39 at times.
  • GettoGeckoGettoGecko Posts: 801Registered Users
    frolof said:

    My CPU usage ranged from around 50 to almost reaching 60 in campaign (depends on where you look) and in battle it can reach around the same, but more commonly reaching the 40's and even 39 at times.

    So its not your CPUs potential as expected because it still could handle a lot more. Have you looked at your bios and other temperature settings? Because if it has the same standard settings like mine it simply has a problem with your CPU reaching the 80°C mark and slows down everything, so you can go the risky way and raise these settings to 90°C which a Intel should still be able to handle or go the save way and get a non standard cooler.
    frolof said:

    My PC sure is noisy, so I have been thinking of changing the chassi fans and upgrade the cooling for the CPU with something really good. I've heared watercooling is the top of the game (again, heared.) when it comes to cooling.

    Sure you could go for liquid cooling and if money doesn't matter do it, the thing is from a value-to-money ratio it isn't worth it for just tww. The basic Intel cooler is garbage for gameing and even an average air cooler should be able to prevent the safety slow downs.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users

    frolof said:

    My CPU usage ranged from around 50 to almost reaching 60 in campaign (depends on where you look) and in battle it can reach around the same, but more commonly reaching the 40's and even 39 at times.

    So its not your CPUs potential as expected because it still could handle a lot more. Have you looked at your bios and other temperature settings? Because if it has the same standard settings like mine it simply has a problem with your CPU reaching the 80°C mark and slows down everything, so you can go the risky way and raise these settings to 90°C which a Intel should still be able to handle or go the save way and get a non standard cooler.
    frolof said:

    My PC sure is noisy, so I have been thinking of changing the chassi fans and upgrade the cooling for the CPU with something really good. I've heared watercooling is the top of the game (again, heared.) when it comes to cooling.

    Sure you could go for liquid cooling and if money doesn't matter do it, the thing is from a value-to-money ratio it isn't worth it for just tww. The basic Intel cooler is garbage for gameing and even an average air cooler should be able to prevent the safety slow downs.
    I am quite financially stable, so Liquid cooling shouldn't be the biggest investment seeing as my 1TB SSD and GPU costed me roughly $1000 (which actually stung haha). I just need to find a good one and one that fits my Rig and doesn't mess up the cooling of other parts.
  • 4uk4ata4uk4ata Posts: 897Registered Users
    edited December 2018
    I'm playing it with an i3-6100, 8 GB RAM and a RX 580 at 1080p, and for the most part it looks fine at high details. You should not have any serious problem, unless you are playing at 4K. Could it be a driver issue?

    Land is Kislev, Kislev is Land! We are Kislev!

    Proud Elspeth von Draken partisan
  • WoesWoes Posts: 55Registered Users
    I'm no expert, but i have built my pc from scratch.

    To me your problem seems like a coolingproblem, especially since warhammer total war is only single cpu core usage only. It really spikes the cpu usage at higher settings and that may cause those fps drops. With good cooling it still causes fps drops, but they are less spikey. The only way to loose the spikes is to have CA upgrade the gameengine to multicore pocessing.

    How many fans does ur miditower have? Is there a good ventilationflow trough your tower by 'air-pulling' and 'air-pushing' fans?

    That did the trick for me when improving cooling. I also recommend a larger tower with more room and more working fans to distribute the heat and a watercooling for that cpu. You should check sites like Logical Increments for having the best marketvalue for ur bucks.

    Hope it helps.
  • LethafaceLethaface Junior Member Posts: 49Registered Users
    frolof said:

    I am quite financially stable, so Liquid cooling shouldn't be the biggest investment seeing as my 1TB SSD and GPU costed me roughly $1000 (which actually stung haha). I just need to find a good one and one that fits my Rig and doesn't mess up the cooling of other parts.

    Performance wise air coolers are actually better compared to liquid cooling, at least according to some tests I saw last year. There are applications for watercooling, but generally more for specific setups. If you just want to upgrade your CPU cooler in a normal tower, installing a new air cooler is imo a lot easier. For a hundred bucks orso (probably even cheaper) you have a great quiet air cooler which will outperform the stock cooler by a lot of margin.
  • NeverBackDownNeverBackDown Senior Member Posts: 1,822Registered Users
    edited December 2018

    frolof said:

    My CPU usage ranged from around 50 to almost reaching 60 in campaign (depends on where you look) and in battle it can reach around the same, but more commonly reaching the 40's and even 39 at times.

    So its not your CPUs potential as expected because it still could handle a lot more. Have you looked at your bios and other temperature settings? Because if it has the same standard settings like mine it simply has a problem with your CPU reaching the 80°C mark and slows down everything, so you can go the risky way and raise these settings to 90°C which a Intel should still be able to handle or go the save way and get a non standard cooler.
    His thermals are fine.Intel CPUs only throttle once they hit 100C. Below that the performance is exactly the same at any temperature. The only benefit he will gain from getting better cooling is by lowering the heat he is currently at and then overclocking. It won't help the peak FPS he is getting but it will help raise his minimums a bit.


    I would only get a new watercooler if you plan on getting a new case. As of right now your case is better suited for an air cooler. I recommended the Cryorig H7 earlier as my personal experience with it is very good and reviews are also good. Plus it's not much money. Watercooling AIOs are only worth it in the 240mm+ size ranges. Below that its cheaper just to get an air cooler over a small water cooler and get similar if not better performance. And your case cannot fit a larger watercooler unfortunately as far as I remember since I am 99% sure it's based off the Corsair 200r but rebranded.

    Other ways to get better airflow is just to upgrade your fans or get a new case that's better suited for airflow(or both).


  • GettoGeckoGettoGecko Posts: 801Registered Users

    His thermals are fine.Intel CPUs only throttle once they hit 100C. Below that the performance is exactly the same at any temperature. The only benefit he will gain from getting better cooling is by lowering the heat he is currently at and then overclocking. It won't help the peak FPS he is getting but it will help raise his minimums a bit.

    Thats not true, it depends on his board and his bios settings or even software if he use some to controll it. I'm not talking about an emergency shut down from the pc when the cpu gets grilled but a possible build in controll which starts to massively reduce the cpu output once the set temperature is reached. As he is already near 80°C and probably his fan at max speed, this could result in a temporary setting for minimal performance which could be just enough to bottleneck the gpu and resulting in performance spikes or basically drastical frame drops because his cpu is dancing between minimal and normal speed while trying to stay under 80°C. Ofcourse I don't know his bios and its settings or his additional tools, so its just a possibility.
  • froloffrolof Posts: 296Registered Users
    Woes said:

    I'm no expert, but i have built my pc from scratch.

    To me your problem seems like a coolingproblem, especially since warhammer total war is only single cpu core usage only. It really spikes the cpu usage at higher settings and that may cause those fps drops. With good cooling it still causes fps drops, but they are less spikey. The only way to loose the spikes is to have CA upgrade the gameengine to multicore pocessing.

    How many fans does ur miditower have? Is there a good ventilationflow trough your tower by 'air-pulling' and 'air-pushing' fans?

    That did the trick for me when improving cooling. I also recommend a larger tower with more room and more working fans to distribute the heat and a watercooling for that cpu. You should check sites like Logical Increments for having the best marketvalue for ur bucks.

    Hope it helps.

    My Miditower have 2 fans from what I can observe. I will need to open it up and analyse.

    I can't take just any site as I am in Sweden, and that means that whatever it might cost for you will be added to shipping cost for us. Which can make it much more expensive.

    My PC Is kind of shut in inside a computer slot on my desk, so again steady airflow is not easy. I'm planning on maybe investing on liquid cooling with new chassi fans for my rig, as they make the loudest noise. I have read on websites that replacing screws with anti-vibrant screws is also an option, but I don't know. Only optional on my end.
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