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Ideas from Paradox

davedave1124davedave1124 Senior MemberPosts: 3,632Registered Users
I do see a lot of suggestions concerned with Paradox and although they have released some great games I don't see them as being much better than CA. For example I'd be gutted if CA took on Paradox's DLC strategy, core mechanic and a few graphical touch ups. Don't get me wrong I like the look of some of the big expansions of one of their many grand campaigns.

One game that does look quite interesting is Stellaris, although I've only been interested in historical from the playthroughs I've seen it looks like a great game and some of its ideas could translate well to TW games.

One is the major constructs and advanced tech. I think this is something lacking in TW, something that takes an age to build but the advantages are well worth it. In terms of advanced techs (or ascension perks) this could be something that takes your faction in a particular direction be it, diplomacy, trade, military etc.

I think this would help the late game and allow a final huge invasion, while the major constructs and techs allow you to fight a final invasion by Chaos. This system could allow for a ladder system so how well you fight this final invasion is scored and assessed.

I realise that the late game is just a case of painting the map blue/red, so it would be nice for something positive to feature rather than creating higher difficulty through random invasions. The point of the early/medium game is to prepare for the final invasion, which expects the player to have domination over the map.
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Comments

  • tanspan88tanspan88 Posts: 201Registered Users
    Wow thats a fantastic idea! I tend to get bored of a campaign shortly after chaos arrive, but would be cool to opt in to a “see how long you survive” mode. Whether they come in increasingly difficult waves, or compulsory battles against your faction leader - doom stack v doom stack
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users
    tanspan88 said:

    Wow thats a fantastic idea! I tend to get bored of a campaign shortly after chaos arrive, but would be cool to opt in to a “see how long you survive” mode. Whether they come in increasingly difficult waves, or compulsory battles against your faction leader - doom stack v doom stack

    Yes I was thinking of a final multiple Doomstack assault, but a wave system could work too. On the public ladder system it could be revealed - enemy killed, troops killed, troops produced etc. and then maybe an overall score.

    Those scoring over a certain level get free specialised DLC/FLC.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users
    edited January 9

    tanspan88 said:

    Wow thats a fantastic idea! I tend to get bored of a campaign shortly after chaos arrive, but would be cool to opt in to a “see how long you survive” mode. Whether they come in increasingly difficult waves, or compulsory battles against your faction leader - doom stack v doom stack

    Yes I was thinking of a final multiple Doomstack assault, but a wave system could work too. On the public ladder system it could be revealed - enemy killed, troops killed, troops produced etc. and then maybe an overall score.

    Those scoring over a certain level get free specialised DLC/FLC.
    But mods. You would only be able to participate in that if you played vanilla Warhammer. Otherwise people would just be able to cheat their way to the top.

    I am not willing to give up mods for the sake of some unnecessary leaderboard. I would still love to play a mode like that but don't make it a competition.
  • tanspan88tanspan88 Posts: 201Registered Users
    Ahh yeah like a reskin of your LL would be cool.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users

    tanspan88 said:

    Wow thats a fantastic idea! I tend to get bored of a campaign shortly after chaos arrive, but would be cool to opt in to a “see how long you survive” mode. Whether they come in increasingly difficult waves, or compulsory battles against your faction leader - doom stack v doom stack

    Yes I was thinking of a final multiple Doomstack assault, but a wave system could work too. On the public ladder system it could be revealed - enemy killed, troops killed, troops produced etc. and then maybe an overall score.

    Those scoring over a certain level get free specialised DLC/FLC.
    But mods. You would only be able to participate in that if you played vanilla Warhammer. Otherwise people would just be able to cheat their way to the top.

    I am not willing to give up mods for the sake of some unnecessary leaderboard. I would still love to play a mode like that but don't make it a competition.
    But that's your decision. There will be people who don't use mods and there will be people who sometimes plays for simple engagement with mods and sometimes play without mods. Of course there will be people who refuse not to use mods.. np.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users
    tanspan88 said:

    Ahh yeah like a reskin of your LL would be cool.

    Yes, I was thinking of the use of famous commander units like using Boris, with particular weapon choices may be.

    My first thought was the use of long term but substantial benefits through the Stellaris style long term perks and structures, which allows you to prepare for the serious final assault that could come after the not so harsh Chaos invasion.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users

    tanspan88 said:

    Wow thats a fantastic idea! I tend to get bored of a campaign shortly after chaos arrive, but would be cool to opt in to a “see how long you survive” mode. Whether they come in increasingly difficult waves, or compulsory battles against your faction leader - doom stack v doom stack

    Yes I was thinking of a final multiple Doomstack assault, but a wave system could work too. On the public ladder system it could be revealed - enemy killed, troops killed, troops produced etc. and then maybe an overall score.

    Those scoring over a certain level get free specialised DLC/FLC.
    But mods. You would only be able to participate in that if you played vanilla Warhammer. Otherwise people would just be able to cheat their way to the top.

    I am not willing to give up mods for the sake of some unnecessary leaderboard. I would still love to play a mode like that but don't make it a competition.
    But that's your decision. There will be people who don't use mods and there will be people who sometimes plays for simple engagement with mods and sometimes play without mods. Of course there will be people who refuse not to use mods.. np.
    I'm just saying it wouldn't be long before we start seeing scores of 999999^99. At that point a leaderboard would be pointless.
  • KronusXKronusX Posts: 1,356Registered Users
    The game simply needs more endgame crisis andit should be something not related to Chaos only.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users

    tanspan88 said:

    Wow thats a fantastic idea! I tend to get bored of a campaign shortly after chaos arrive, but would be cool to opt in to a “see how long you survive” mode. Whether they come in increasingly difficult waves, or compulsory battles against your faction leader - doom stack v doom stack

    Yes I was thinking of a final multiple Doomstack assault, but a wave system could work too. On the public ladder system it could be revealed - enemy killed, troops killed, troops produced etc. and then maybe an overall score.

    Those scoring over a certain level get free specialised DLC/FLC.
    But mods. You would only be able to participate in that if you played vanilla Warhammer. Otherwise people would just be able to cheat their way to the top.

    I am not willing to give up mods for the sake of some unnecessary leaderboard. I would still love to play a mode like that but don't make it a competition.
    But that's your decision. There will be people who don't use mods and there will be people who sometimes plays for simple engagement with mods and sometimes play without mods. Of course there will be people who refuse not to use mods.. np.
    I'm just saying it wouldn't be long before we start seeing scores of 999999^99. At that point a leaderboard would be pointless.
    Yes, but I've said mods would not be allowed apart from mods that will not give an advantage like aesthetic for example. So you would have the choice to use mods or not, depending on what sort of game you feel like playing.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users

    tanspan88 said:

    Wow thats a fantastic idea! I tend to get bored of a campaign shortly after chaos arrive, but would be cool to opt in to a “see how long you survive” mode. Whether they come in increasingly difficult waves, or compulsory battles against your faction leader - doom stack v doom stack

    Yes I was thinking of a final multiple Doomstack assault, but a wave system could work too. On the public ladder system it could be revealed - enemy killed, troops killed, troops produced etc. and then maybe an overall score.

    Those scoring over a certain level get free specialised DLC/FLC.
    But mods. You would only be able to participate in that if you played vanilla Warhammer. Otherwise people would just be able to cheat their way to the top.

    I am not willing to give up mods for the sake of some unnecessary leaderboard. I would still love to play a mode like that but don't make it a competition.
    But that's your decision. There will be people who don't use mods and there will be people who sometimes plays for simple engagement with mods and sometimes play without mods. Of course there will be people who refuse not to use mods.. np.
    I'm just saying it wouldn't be long before we start seeing scores of 999999^99. At that point a leaderboard would be pointless.
    Yes, but I've said mods would not be allowed apart from mods that will not give an advantage like aesthetic for example. So you would have the choice to use mods or not, depending on what sort of game you feel like playing.
    That would require CA to examine every mod that comes out, see if it provides an unfair advantage. It's unrealistic. It's easier to just leave it as an extra option.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,505Registered Users
    Already mentioned before about how much I dislike Paradox's DLC policy so I agree fully there...

    One idea I'd like to see them adopt however would be more consistent communication and blogs. I know that takes time to do, but they have very capable people who the community do respect. They even have an employee really pushing communication with the Modding community so they clearly value it!

    As for actual mechanics: Stellaris allows you to set different End Crisis (Including what time they can occur) that helps offer some customization to your campaign. At the very least we do need more end game threats.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 14,629Registered Users
    I don't want anything from that mediocre company.

    That said the end game needs looking at. I want a resl focus and reason to become a huge empire. Hellebron's campaign is a good example, you're given good reason to become a huge empire.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users

    tanspan88 said:

    Wow thats a fantastic idea! I tend to get bored of a campaign shortly after chaos arrive, but would be cool to opt in to a “see how long you survive” mode. Whether they come in increasingly difficult waves, or compulsory battles against your faction leader - doom stack v doom stack

    Yes I was thinking of a final multiple Doomstack assault, but a wave system could work too. On the public ladder system it could be revealed - enemy killed, troops killed, troops produced etc. and then maybe an overall score.

    Those scoring over a certain level get free specialised DLC/FLC.
    But mods. You would only be able to participate in that if you played vanilla Warhammer. Otherwise people would just be able to cheat their way to the top.

    I am not willing to give up mods for the sake of some unnecessary leaderboard. I would still love to play a mode like that but don't make it a competition.
    But that's your decision. There will be people who don't use mods and there will be people who sometimes plays for simple engagement with mods and sometimes play without mods. Of course there will be people who refuse not to use mods.. np.
    I'm just saying it wouldn't be long before we start seeing scores of 999999^99. At that point a leaderboard would be pointless.
    Yes, but I've said mods would not be allowed apart from mods that will not give an advantage like aesthetic for example. So you would have the choice to use mods or not, depending on what sort of game you feel like playing.
    That would require CA to examine every mod that comes out, see if it provides an unfair advantage. It's unrealistic. It's easier to just leave it as an extra option.
    They don't have to look at everyone. They can just look at the 100 most popular and use selected mods out that do not give an advantage.
  • KronusXKronusX Posts: 1,356Registered Users
    edited January 9

    I don't want anything from that mediocre company.

    That said the end game needs looking at. I want a resl focus and reason to become a huge empire. Hellebron's campaign is a good example, you're given good reason to become a huge empire.

    I am having quite a lot of fun with Stellaris/CK2 from ''that mediocre company'', and that is pre-mods. In comparison I would not want to play WH2 without my lovely mods.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users

    I don't want anything from that mediocre company.

    That said the end game needs looking at. I want a resl focus and reason to become a huge empire. Hellebron's campaign is a good example, you're given good reason to become a huge empire.

    I agree there's certain things I don't like but I have to admit that Stellaris looks amazing and I love some of the ideas on it. I could never get into the historical titles but I think I'm going to give their WW2 flagship game ago.

    I want the player to have a reason to create the huge empire and use large buildings/constructs or powerful tech or specific focuses to make an empire specific for them. Once you're ready then the final invasion begins.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users
    edited January 9
    Nemox said:

    Already mentioned before about how much I dislike Paradox's DLC policy so I agree fully there...

    One idea I'd like to see them adopt however would be more consistent communication and blogs. I know that takes time to do, but they have very capable people who the community do respect. They even have an employee really pushing communication with the Modding community so they clearly value it!

    As for actual mechanics: Stellaris allows you to set different End Crisis (Including what time they can occur) that helps offer some customization to your campaign. At the very least we do need more end game threats.


    This sounds great!

    I think a regular blog would be appreciated, the 'what the teams are working on' blogs could be smaller and more regular.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 14,629Registered Users
    edited January 9

    I don't want anything from that mediocre company.

    That said the end game needs looking at. I want a resl focus and reason to become a huge empire. Hellebron's campaign is a good example, you're given good reason to become a huge empire.

    I agree there's certain things I don't like but I have to admit that Stellaris looks amazing and I love some of the ideas on it. I could never get into the historical titles but I think I'm going to give their WW2 flagship game ago.

    I want the player to have a reason to create the huge empire and use large buildings/constructs or powerful tech or specific focuses to make an empire specific for them. Once you're ready then the final invasion begins.
    But why? Don't get me wrong, it sounds great but personally I want to have a need for it. With Hellebron for example I need to get the trinkets so she can stay pretty forever.

    I'd alter it so that threat is a perpetual one throughout the game, even if small in the early to mid game. Then that drives you to do the tech that you need to win over it. That's just me though.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Posts: 1,012Registered Users
    The detailed diplomacy system of Crusader Kings II integrated to TWW might be a dream come true.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users

    I don't want anything from that mediocre company.

    That said the end game needs looking at. I want a resl focus and reason to become a huge empire. Hellebron's campaign is a good example, you're given good reason to become a huge empire.

    I agree there's certain things I don't like but I have to admit that Stellaris looks amazing and I love some of the ideas on it. I could never get into the historical titles but I think I'm going to give their WW2 flagship game ago.

    I want the player to have a reason to create the huge empire and use large buildings/constructs or powerful tech or specific focuses to make an empire specific for them. Once you're ready then the final invasion begins.
    But why? Don't get me wrong, it sounds neat but personally I want to have a need for it. With Hellebron for example I need to get the trinkets so she can stay pretty forever.

    I'd alter it so that threat is a perpetual one throughout the game, even if small in the early to mid game. Then that drives you to do the tech that you need to win over it.
    But, would that really make an exciting end game? What's to stop you from legging it straight to the 2 key cities? Would it matter how you built your empire is it was just a case of taking 2 cities to keep her young? It also seems like a very narrow view of the game, technically you could use any idea, you must take 'city a' and 'b' so you can have 'c'.

    This idea makes you customise your empire in away that suits your playstyle and allows you to create the ultimate challenge as well as showing your achievements and being able to compare yourself to others.

    Play the Empire and have to deal with a major Skaven invasion, or have Boris deal with a major Beastman invasion. I'm sure there are issues apart from invasions you could try... can't think of any at the moment.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,505Registered Users

    The detailed diplomacy system of Crusader Kings II integrated to TWW might be a dream come true.

    Total War getting that level of depth in their campaigns would push the historical titles to new heights. Warhammer might have spoiled us all with their battles but that direction would make me want to play fifty shades of spearmen :P.
  • CrajohCrajoh Member Posts: 1,337Registered Users
    KronusX said:

    The game simply needs more endgame crisis andit should be something not related to Chaos only.

    Or I would prefer no end game. Random/sequenced Crises based on your actions or RNG throughout the game.

    Own all the Empire provinces, perhaps an uprising where the Elector Counts all raise armies at the same time to get independence. Same with all races.

    Greenskin, Chaos, Norsca, Skaven, DE slaver or even LM Geometric Web incursions.

    or really out there, Fishmen rise attack coastal cities, Cathay or Hobgoblins from the East.

    So many options, triggers or RNG.

    Live your life and try to do no harm.

    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users
    Crajoh said:

    KronusX said:

    The game simply needs more endgame crisis andit should be something not related to Chaos only.

    Or I would prefer no end game. Random/sequenced Crises based on your actions or RNG throughout the game.

    Own all the Empire provinces, perhaps an uprising where the Elector Counts all raise armies at the same time to get independence. Same with all races.

    Greenskin, Chaos, Norsca, Skaven, DE slaver or even LM Geometric Web incursions.

    or really out there, Fishmen rise attack coastal cities, Cathay or Hobgoblins from the East.

    So many options, triggers or RNG.

    Yes, I think those are the ideal options, more of a RPG element so every game is different.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 2,790Registered Users
    Crajoh said:

    KronusX said:

    The game simply needs more endgame crisis andit should be something not related to Chaos only.

    Or I would prefer no end game. Random/sequenced Crises based on your actions or RNG throughout the game.

    Own all the Empire provinces, perhaps an uprising where the Elector Counts all raise armies at the same time to get independence. Same with all races.

    Greenskin, Chaos, Norsca, Skaven, DE slaver or even LM Geometric Web incursions.

    or really out there, Fishmen rise attack coastal cities, Cathay or Hobgoblins from the East.

    So many options, triggers or RNG.

    See, a lot of what you mentioned i would love for some mid game things. It's not just end game that drags on ME but mid game becomes bit of a slog as well.

    So yeah, the elector count thing or others would be nice to see as responses to your actions. Spice up things a little, and giving you pause as you think about taking that last imperial province, can you afford it just yet? You're still at war with two others so some discontent would be iffy.... yadda yadda.
  • RodentofDoomRodentofDoom Posts: 511Registered Users
    At the end of the day

    Late game in most paradox games is also paint the map [insert colour name]

    Although with CK2 you can technically win without doing that providing your extended family keep breeding and owning ruling titles. Game AI's being game AI's though, they tend towards imbecility and theological traits and end up dying out.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 14,629Registered Users

    I don't want anything from that mediocre company.

    That said the end game needs looking at. I want a resl focus and reason to become a huge empire. Hellebron's campaign is a good example, you're given good reason to become a huge empire.

    I agree there's certain things I don't like but I have to admit that Stellaris looks amazing and I love some of the ideas on it. I could never get into the historical titles but I think I'm going to give their WW2 flagship game ago.

    I want the player to have a reason to create the huge empire and use large buildings/constructs or powerful tech or specific focuses to make an empire specific for them. Once you're ready then the final invasion begins.
    But why? Don't get me wrong, it sounds neat but personally I want to have a need for it. With Hellebron for example I need to get the trinkets so she can stay pretty forever.

    I'd alter it so that threat is a perpetual one throughout the game, even if small in the early to mid game. Then that drives you to do the tech that you need to win over it.
    But, would that really make an exciting end game? What's to stop you from legging it straight to the 2 key cities? Would it matter how you built your empire is it was just a case of taking 2 cities to keep her young? It also seems like a very narrow view of the game, technically you could use any idea, you must take 'city a' and 'b' so you can have 'c'.

    This idea makes you customise your empire in away that suits your playstyle and allows you to create the ultimate challenge as well as showing your achievements and being able to compare yourself to others.

    Play the Empire and have to deal with a major Skaven invasion, or have Boris deal with a major Beastman invasion. I'm sure there are issues apart from invasions you could try... can't think of any at the moment.
    Fair points.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Urza1234Urza1234 Posts: 213Registered Users
    Some good ideas from Paradox would be to have a more regular patch and release cycle, as well as better communication.

    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/dev-team-were-back.1144790/

    Paradox releases a huge DLC for Stellaris, there are more than a few bugs on release, they release 2 patches and a beta before they go on winter break, then as soon as they come back there's a high-level update on the status of the studio.

    This is what I believe people should realistically expect from a game company. Not perfection, but dedication and communication.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users
    edited January 10
    Urza1234 said:

    Some good ideas from Paradox would be to have a more regular patch and release cycle, as well as better communication.

    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/dev-team-were-back.1144790/

    Paradox releases a huge DLC for Stellaris, there are more than a few bugs on release, they release 2 patches and a beta before they go on winter break, then as soon as they come back there's a high-level update on the status of the studio.

    This is what I believe people should realistically expect from a game company. Not perfection, but dedication and communication.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the detail Paradox put into their games but they do have just as serious issues as CA. Despite doing more they also still suffer the same bugs coming up over and over, so I don't think more regular is much better.

    CA will usually release a patch with a DLC and then do a further one to mop up serious issues.
  • IxalIxal Posts: 479Registered Users
    Nemox said:

    Already mentioned before about how much I dislike Paradox's DLC policy so I agree fully there...

    One idea I'd like to see them adopt however would be more consistent communication and blogs. I know that takes time to do, but they have very capable people who the community do respect. They even have an employee really pushing communication with the Modding community so they clearly value it!

    As for actual mechanics: Stellaris allows you to set different End Crisis (Including what time they can occur) that helps offer some customization to your campaign. At the very least we do need more end game threats.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA

    You really think CAs DLC politic is better?
    Paying a full game, then paying again to get the last two units for each faction, then paying for a new race on the map and finally the cycle starts again when the same game with a different map is sold full prince instead of it being an expansion if it came from Paradox. Not to mention that Paradox wouldn't require you to own both Warhammer games to play Mortal Empires.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,632Registered Users
    Ixal said:

    Nemox said:

    Already mentioned before about how much I dislike Paradox's DLC policy so I agree fully there...

    One idea I'd like to see them adopt however would be more consistent communication and blogs. I know that takes time to do, but they have very capable people who the community do respect. They even have an employee really pushing communication with the Modding community so they clearly value it!

    As for actual mechanics: Stellaris allows you to set different End Crisis (Including what time they can occur) that helps offer some customization to your campaign. At the very least we do need more end game threats.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA

    You really think CAs DLC politic is better?
    Paying a full game, then paying again to get the last two units for each faction, then paying for a new race on the map and finally the cycle starts again when the same game with a different map is sold full prince instead of it being an expansion if it came from Paradox. Not to mention that Paradox wouldn't require you to own both Warhammer games to play Mortal Empires.
    How strange.
  • kgmikgmi Posts: 88Registered Users

    The detailed diplomacy system of Crusader Kings II integrated to TWW might be a dream come true.

    Tbh any diplomacy system would be a dream coming true. What TW games have can barely be called "diplomacy", sorry but it is a sad joke if you have played any Paradox title ever.
    "Likelihood of success: moderate" Like wtf does that even mean?! How far am I from the faction accepting my demands? how much money would I need to bribe? Why are there no warleaders when an Alliance chain declares war? etc.

    The crown of retardation though, takes Rome 2, you get reputation penalty for making peace too early, like....WHY?!

    In TW WH, one of your ally declaring on another one of yours, should ONLY get you reputation penalty with the faction you betray. If you decline both then global rep hit is fine, but getting a dip rep hit no matter what you chose, completely defeats the purpose of alliances.

    Though, I'd argue that EU4s diplomacy system would fit a bit better for TW than CK2, you secure alliances and non aggression pacts via marrying your characters to into another house, something you can't do in TW WH.


    Empire could also have an HRE like mechanic, like EU4 has. Enforce peace option as Empire on fellow Empire sub factions when they war each other, sounds like something the great Statesman Franz would be capable of.


    But to come to WHs defense about late game map painting, it is basically the same in EU4. You reach unstoppable status
    between ~1550-1650, depending on what tag you started as and how efficiently you played.
    Stellaris solved the problem quite well, otherwise only Victoria II and CK2 offer you enough things to do during peace time.
    Vic 2 with empire management (sphere of influence) and global markets
    CK2 with character interaction.
    Though, CK2 veterans tend to Habsburg the whole map in a 1-2 centuries as well.

This discussion has been closed.