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Combat Animations?

Paddy234Paddy234 Senior MemberPosts: 368Registered Users
edited February 2019 in General Discussion
Looking at the videos so far i have to say i'm not impressed with combat animations, this is something i felt Shogun 2 did best as it was quick and fluid very much like the fighting style in this part of the world during the time period. Three Kingdoms animations looks so choppy, soldiers swinging and hitting mid air using the exact same actions over and over, soldiers reacting to getting hit several seconds later after a sword slices through their body. Does anyone know why CA have resorted to this? Cheers
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Comments

  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 1,275Registered Users
    I can honestly say ive never bothered to zoom in and watch the combat animations. I mean, on the scale they are made its kinda pointless to expect extreamly good skeletons and hitbox detection on a game like this.

    I undrestand some of you might like it, might spend yoru games super zoomed instead of actually commanding your battles and micro managing, but its easily in the minority.

    Id rather they spend time, effort, and budget on more important things.

  • ImperatorAnonimusImperatorAnonimus Posts: 302Registered Users
    I agree. Sometimes I love zooming in close and watching things unfold, but the amount of time I spend doing it, despite how much I enjoy watching such things... It's very little compared to everything else. A few misaligned animations and unit clipping issues aren't going to hurt my enjoyment much. I'd far prefer a focus on the big picture gameplay and making sure it handles smoothly.
  • tfwoods3tfwoods3 Posts: 844Registered Users
    My only complaint is the charge. It’s impact seems weak. Even men on foot charging other men on foot seems timid.
  • MarcusLiviusMarcusLivius Senior Member Posts: 638Registered Users
    This is a pretty original take, I have not seen this brought up before.

    If there is one thing I feel confident they can clean up, it is the unit clipping. I'm sure the animation syncing will be better at release when compared to the 3 month old build as well. Time will tell though. As others have mentioned I also spend very little time zoomed in. That being said, when I am, it would be nice to have it look good.
  • TockiTocki Posts: 72Registered Users
    edited February 2019
    Yes sadly, for me this will be one reason not to buy it.

    I would love a mix of shogun 2 and Attila.

    I don’t know why they decided to do it this way:/
    My only answer could be that they gave up on three kingdoms halfway to spend more time on the warhammer titles! But this is my conspiracy.
  • toskyruntoskyrun Junior Member Posts: 94Registered Users
    yes, even for me it's a serious matter.
    ok, a lot of work has been done on the campaign, on diplomacy and relationships but ....
    the whole battle-related part seems to have been forgotten ... shoddy animations, glitches, even fights between heroes are always the same 4 moves.
    goodbye naval battles.

    I don't know ... let's say that if a boy chooses total war, it's for battles ... that have always been the fundamental part of the games. we hope they will fix everything right
  • ImperatorAnonimusImperatorAnonimus Posts: 302Registered Users
    toskyrun said:

    yes, even for me it's a serious matter.
    ok, a lot of work has been done on the campaign, on diplomacy and relationships but ....
    the whole battle-related part seems to have been forgotten ... shoddy animations, glitches, even fights between heroes are always the same 4 moves.
    goodbye naval battles.

    I don't know ... let's say that if a boy chooses total war, it's for battles ... that have always been the fundamental part of the games. we hope they will fix everything right

    That's true. When I was a boy, ALL my focus was on the battles. (Interestingly, as I've gotten older, my focus has slowly shifted towards campaign, but I still love a good battle.)

    But I'm confident the battles will look, at the very least, "good enough" on final release. I mean what we had pre-release looked at least as good as Shogun 2, animations aside, and Shogun 2 still holds up today.
  • SakotadejanSakotadejan Posts: 158Registered Users
    Tocki said:

    Yes sadly, for me this will be one reason not to buy it.

    I would love a mix of shogun 2 and Attila.

    I don’t know why they decided to do it this way:/
    My only answer could be that they gave up on three kingdoms halfway to spend more time on the warhammer titles! But this is my conspiracy.

    Ahahahahahaha u made me laugh so hard
  • AsyranAsyran Posts: 479Registered Users
    Tocki said:

    Yes sadly, for me this will be one reason not to buy it.

    I would love a mix of shogun 2 and Attila.

    I don’t know why they decided to do it this way:/
    My only answer could be that they gave up on three kingdoms halfway to spend more time on the warhammer titles! But this is my conspiracy.

    More like they decided to mix Warhammer with historical to make a fantasy-esque game, because Warhammer has been incredibly successful.
  • DeemsDogStomperDeemsDogStomper Posts: 17Registered Users
    CA heard the many complains about the matched combat animations being slow and awkward in recent TW titles and decided to continue with the combat in Warhammer and 3K. The shuffling of soldiers to get into position for an animation looked stupid anyways.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,241Registered Users

    CA heard the many complains about the matched combat animations being slow and awkward in recent TW titles and decided to continue with the combat in Warhammer and 3K. The shuffling of soldiers to get into position for an animation looked stupid anyways.

    I was in the camp of "matched combat is bad for the game" but something is off with the 3K combat.

    I'm not sure if it's mass, or collision, or animations but it seems way less fluid and clean than in Warhammer.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • SecuterSecuter Senior Member Denmark, Aarhus.Posts: 2,328Registered Users
    I've become somewhat accustomed to the way they are in the Warhammer series. I don't think they should the exact animations as they are somewhat excessive and fantasy inspired (like jumping right into the middle of your enemies). But I don't mind the fighting style either. I understand those who'd rather like a Shogun 2 kind of model - I liked that as well, but I honestly feel like they should focus on more important matters such as the campaign map and the depth they are adding there.

    On the other hand I understand if people want some nice finishers or the soldiers being able to block (like in Medieval 2 or something), and I don't think that is unreasonable to wish for.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Posts: 2,843Registered Users
    edited February 2019
    Yaafm said:

    I can honestly say ive never bothered to zoom in and watch the combat animations. I mean, on the scale they are made its kinda pointless to expect extreamly good skeletons and hitbox detection on a game like this.

    I undrestand some of you might like it, might spend yoru games super zoomed instead of actually commanding your battles and micro managing, but its easily in the minority.

    Id rather they spend time, effort, and budget on more important things.

    I agree. Sometimes I love zooming in close and watching things unfold, but the amount of time I spend doing it, despite how much I enjoy watching such things... It's very little compared to everything else. A few misaligned animations and unit clipping issues aren't going to hurt my enjoyment much. I'd far prefer a focus on the big picture gameplay and making sure it handles smoothly.

    Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

    We've already had this discussion several times already, so I won't go into why CA removed matched combat animations.

    As for the animations looking choppy; yes, they look a bit rubbish, but really those are easy fixes. The majority of it will be fixed within the first few weeks or months after release, and they're minor issues at best.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,671Registered Users
    Well I don't miss the fancy duels between regular troops that was ruining formations, good riddance.
  • BreadboxBreadbox Posts: 785Registered Users
    I’ve always liked the detail and scale of historical Total war battles, now that neither are in, I’m not sure what left to like for battles.

    The battles in the latest video reminds me of two fur balls squeezing against one another than a proper battle.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,671Registered Users
    Yaafm said:

    I can honestly say ive never bothered to zoom in and watch the combat animations. I mean, on the scale they are made its kinda pointless to expect extreamly good skeletons and hitbox detection on a game like this.

    I undrestand some of you might like it, might spend yoru games super zoomed instead of actually commanding your battles and micro managing, but its easily in the minority.

    Id rather they spend time, effort, and budget on more important things.

    Ya, plus the fancy animations was not worth the ruined formations that they was causing.
  • FranzSaxonFranzSaxon Posts: 2,357Registered Users
    edited February 2019
    100%. Hope it changes but I don't think it will. Can't buy it like this.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,671Registered Users

    CA heard the many complains about the matched combat animations being slow and awkward in recent TW titles and decided to continue with the combat in Warhammer and 3K. The shuffling of soldiers to get into position for an animation looked stupid anyways.

    Yap, and the 'mook chivalry' of units standing around and not attacking had looked stupid as well.
  • FranzSaxonFranzSaxon Posts: 2,357Registered Users
    Tayvar said:

    Well I don't miss the fancy duels between regular troops that was ruining formations, good riddance.

    Formations? As if the 3k video shows formations? Its a bunch of paper figures swatting at thin air. I would agree if it was actually good formation fighting. Nobody is saying we need duels. Just have the units actually fighting ffs. Not jumping around 5 inches on screen space away from each other.
  • MemnonMemnon Senior Member Posts: 581Registered Users

    CA heard the many complains about the matched combat animations being slow and awkward in recent TW titles and decided to continue with the combat in Warhammer and 3K. The shuffling of soldiers to get into position for an animation looked stupid anyways.

    Really looks realistic when soldier smashing air and die even if no one touch them....
    Thats CA call fix problem?If people comlaining for bad animation CA just cut off and put them to bin?Now people compalaining for really garbage battle so whats next ?Next TW CA fix battle his way and just cut off battle from TW games and we have just auto resolve?....Really dodge....
  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 1,275Registered Users
    Memnon said:

    CA heard the many complains about the matched combat animations being slow and awkward in recent TW titles and decided to continue with the combat in Warhammer and 3K. The shuffling of soldiers to get into position for an animation looked stupid anyways.

    Really looks realistic when soldier smashing air and die even if no one touch them....
    Thats CA call fix problem?If people comlaining for bad animation CA just cut off and put them to bin?Now people compalaining for really garbage battle so whats next ?Next TW CA fix battle his way and just cut off battle from TW games and we have just auto resolve?....Really dodge....
    What? Youve seen the videos right? There is combat, its decent if not perfect. Your never going to have perfect, TW combat has NEVER been perfect, just diffrent levels of good.

    What your saying is going overboard, say reasonable things, give examples, proofs, real proof not just proclimations of what you think. "Really garbage battle" Thats an opinion, I do not share it, the videos ive seen are decent and need a bit of polish, those battles look fun to play a few times. (I do like to autocalc, sorry)

    No one has been cut off for saying bad animation, these forums are pretty open and let people have their opinions. CA themselves, as a buisness and as a company, says very little that could be turned against it. Which makes sense, why give your detractors ammo when your fans will still trust and wait.
  • MemnonMemnon Senior Member Posts: 581Registered Users
    edited February 2019
    Yaafm said:




    What? Youve seen the videos right? There is combat, its decent if not perfect. .

    Yes-im watch many video-but dont saw any one combat animation between soldiers.If this exist show me pls where and wich min i will apoligise You.
    Im just saw animation where soldiers do not touch anemy,just smashing air,no combat between units,no def on shield,just random die even if no one touch them etc etc...close to Warhammer style-far far away from Shogun II sync animation etc.
    Im dont ask for nothing impossible-just ask for something what was done 8 years ego and it was done really amazing.

  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 1,275Registered Users
    Memnon said:

    Yaafm said:




    What? Youve seen the videos right? There is combat, its decent if not perfect. .

    Yes-im watch many video-but dont saw any one combat animation between soldiers.If this exist show me pls where and wich min i will apoligise You.
    Im just saw animation where soldiers do not touch anemy,just smashing air,no combat between units,no def on shield,just random die even if no one touch them etc etc...close to Warhammer style-far far away from Shogun II sync animation etc.
    Im dont ask for nothing impossible-just ask for something what was done 8 years ego and it was done really amazing.

    And how long did you watch that for? Espeically in shogun. Battles were moving living things, you have to pay attention, organzie and reorganize. Thats why I do not enjoy doing them to much, eats up a lot of time.
    How much time did you spend actually watching your units? Why were you watching those units? Was your army so overpowring you didnt have pay attention? Did you attack people not caring if you win, just to watch little units fight for a bit?

    A single session, one whole play through of a Total War game takes what? 50+ hours give or take, im not sure.

    Answer this honestly, really, tell me the truth

    How much of 50+ hours do you spend watching your units actually fight and connect with eachother, close enough so you can see each blow and man fall? Do you think a large budget should be spent making exactly sure every hit and every unit from a stack takes damage perfectly? Really?

    If this was YOUR company would you spend the money on that, or would you focus on the gameplay at large? This could make your game profitable or a bomb.

    This is a business, it spends money, it has to value what that money is spent on for the greatest returns.

    This could all be mute anyways, we havnt seen a current build yet. Wendsday will be a lets play, hopefully on a current build.

    I think im done in this thread at least. Ive said all I can say about this subject really.
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Posts: 3,041Registered Users
    Yaafm said:

    Memnon said:

    CA heard the many complains about the matched combat animations being slow and awkward in recent TW titles and decided to continue with the combat in Warhammer and 3K. The shuffling of soldiers to get into position for an animation looked stupid anyways.

    Really looks realistic when soldier smashing air and die even if no one touch them....
    Thats CA call fix problem?If people comlaining for bad animation CA just cut off and put them to bin?Now people compalaining for really garbage battle so whats next ?Next TW CA fix battle his way and just cut off battle from TW games and we have just auto resolve?....Really dodge....
    What? Youve seen the videos right? There is combat, its decent if not perfect. Your never going to have perfect, TW combat has NEVER been perfect, just diffrent levels of good.

    Uh huh, and what level of good is this?


    I'm amazed that you keep acting like as if its unheard of for people to want to watch the soldiers fight in a battle.
    Is it really that odd to you for people to watch fighting in a game called total war?


    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • kelembriborkelembribor Posts: 518Registered Users
    Yaafm said:

    Memnon said:

    Yaafm said:




    What? Youve seen the videos right? There is combat, its decent if not perfect. .

    Yes-im watch many video-but dont saw any one combat animation between soldiers.If this exist show me pls where and wich min i will apoligise You.
    Im just saw animation where soldiers do not touch anemy,just smashing air,no combat between units,no def on shield,just random die even if no one touch them etc etc...close to Warhammer style-far far away from Shogun II sync animation etc.
    Im dont ask for nothing impossible-just ask for something what was done 8 years ego and it was done really amazing.

    And how long did you watch that for? Espeically in shogun. Battles were moving living things, you have to pay attention, organzie and reorganize. Thats why I do not enjoy doing them to much, eats up a lot of time.
    How much time did you spend actually watching your units? Why were you watching those units? Was your army so overpowring you didnt have pay attention? Did you attack people not caring if you win, just to watch little units fight for a bit?

    A single session, one whole play through of a Total War game takes what? 50+ hours give or take, im not sure.

    Answer this honestly, really, tell me the truth

    How much of 50+ hours do you spend watching your units actually fight and connect with eachother, close enough so you can see each blow and man fall? Do you think a large budget should be spent making exactly sure every hit and every unit from a stack takes damage perfectly? Really?

    If this was YOUR company would you spend the money on that, or would you focus on the gameplay at large? This could make your game profitable or a bomb.

    This is a business, it spends money, it has to value what that money is spent on for the greatest returns.

    This could all be mute anyways, we havnt seen a current build yet. Wendsday will be a lets play, hopefully on a current build.

    I think im done in this thread at least. Ive said all I can say about this subject really.
    If I would wanted to play game using autoresolve , I would play many games available on the market like Crusader Kings , Total War series always had immersive battles which is series strongpoint.

    I watch mostly all battles in close up, I don't play those those with overwhelming advantage, but even large battles which I don't have time to watch in close up, I save as replay and watch later.

    I think their decision has several reasons:
    • There is vocal part of community that asked features like more options in campaign and removal of matched combat. Gameplay choice: In making battles more faster so zoomed in battles are less featured they with compromise in hero duels
    • They also focus this game on heroes with units being little more than extras along with their hopefully not final ui cards.
    • It certainly cuts costs.
    • It possibly affects performance .

    What I am not sure is that it will affect more organised battle lines, at least from seeing in the videos.
    I like the look of hero duel animations and cavalry charges.

    There could also be added animations for cheering, or similar to be activated when duel starts, parry , block , or to make combination that look like troops are hitting each other.

    Some flavor in short kill animations and more quality of melee animations wouldn't detract from those people who don't like close up battles, I am not sure for cost but there are already some cuts made in naval combat, there is also less variation in units and culture than in games like Rome 2 and Warhammer so more detail would be great.

    This is my opinion based mostly on videos shown so far, if final version is enhanced than kudos to them.

  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,671Registered Users
    edited February 2019
    Memnon said:

    Yaafm said:




    What? You've seen the videos right? There is combat, its decent if not perfect..

    Yes-i'm watch many video-but don't saw any one combat animation between soldiers. If this exist show me pls where and witch min I will apologize You.
    I'm just saw animation where soldiers do not touch enemy, just smashing air, no combat between units, no def on shield, just random die even if no one touch them etc etc...close to Warhammer style-far far away from Shogun II sync animation etc.
    I'm don't ask for nothing impossible-just ask for something what was done 8 years ego and it was done really amazing.
    It works like that in many video games, and when the game come out you would likely get used to it, the animations in the previous historical Total War games have a lot of downsides, they was ruining formations, they was not allowing to multiple warriors to attack a single warrior, they was just standing and waiting for their turn, and those animations was making the games run slower. Also it basically Total War games going back to it's roots, in Rome 1 there was not a lot of fancy duels between regular troops as well, and Total War players liked that game. It's better for CA to focus on more important stuff than fancy animations that most players barely look at, while they focusing on moving the troops around.
  • FranzSaxonFranzSaxon Posts: 2,357Registered Users
    Yaafm said:

    Memnon said:

    CA heard the many complains about the matched combat animations being slow and awkward in recent TW titles and decided to continue with the combat in Warhammer and 3K. The shuffling of soldiers to get into position for an animation looked stupid anyways.

    Really looks realistic when soldier smashing air and die even if no one touch them....
    Thats CA call fix problem?If people comlaining for bad animation CA just cut off and put them to bin?Now people compalaining for really garbage battle so whats next ?Next TW CA fix battle his way and just cut off battle from TW games and we have just auto resolve?....Really dodge....
    What? Youve seen the videos right? There is combat, its decent if not perfect. Your never going to have perfect, TW combat has NEVER been perfect, just diffrent levels of good.

    What your saying is going overboard, say reasonable things, give examples, proofs, real proof not just proclimations of what you think. "Really garbage battle" Thats an opinion, I do not share it, the videos ive seen are decent and need a bit of polish, those battles look fun to play a few times. (I do like to autocalc, sorry)

    No one has been cut off for saying bad animation, these forums are pretty open and let people have their opinions. CA themselves, as a buisness and as a company, says very little that could be turned against it. Which makes sense, why give your detractors ammo when your fans will still trust and wait.
    Wtf? Are you serious? Calling the video ginger posted good combat? Lol. Come on man!! Ur a total war fan I know u can't believe that. Something is just off.
  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 1,275Registered Users

    Yaafm said:

    Memnon said:

    CA heard the many complains about the matched combat animations being slow and awkward in recent TW titles and decided to continue with the combat in Warhammer and 3K. The shuffling of soldiers to get into position for an animation looked stupid anyways.

    Really looks realistic when soldier smashing air and die even if no one touch them....
    Thats CA call fix problem?If people comlaining for bad animation CA just cut off and put them to bin?Now people compalaining for really garbage battle so whats next ?Next TW CA fix battle his way and just cut off battle from TW games and we have just auto resolve?....Really dodge....
    What? Youve seen the videos right? There is combat, its decent if not perfect. Your never going to have perfect, TW combat has NEVER been perfect, just diffrent levels of good.

    What your saying is going overboard, say reasonable things, give examples, proofs, real proof not just proclimations of what you think. "Really garbage battle" Thats an opinion, I do not share it, the videos ive seen are decent and need a bit of polish, those battles look fun to play a few times. (I do like to autocalc, sorry)

    No one has been cut off for saying bad animation, these forums are pretty open and let people have their opinions. CA themselves, as a buisness and as a company, says very little that could be turned against it. Which makes sense, why give your detractors ammo when your fans will still trust and wait.
    Wtf? Are you serious? Calling the video ginger posted good combat? Lol. Come on man!! Ur a total war fan I know u can't believe that. Something is just off.
    Well, I made that comment before his repeating clip. But whats bad about it? Some spearmen charge swordmen with light sheilds, 2 fall over as the spearmen are retracted to retreat. So whoever/whatever were controlling them initated an attack, the numbers behind the scenes said it id X damage which results in 2 unit losses in the stack, which thanks to programming was determined it was on the front line, and then the controlller pulled them away, as they are retreating the swordsmen kill 2 of them as their background numbers are tallied....

    What part is being argued as bad?
  • mirohmiroh Member Posts: 130Registered Users
    Again I think Shogun 2 had the most immersive batlles.. Quick battles with alot of animations!
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,671Registered Users
    The Cavalry Charges in Total War: Three Kingdoms looks much better than the Cavalry Charges in Total War: Shogun 2 thanks to not having scripted matched combat that makes Cavalry stop.
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