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Get ready for even more OP skaven in campaign.

IzarielIzariel Registered Users Posts: 585
I am not sure how the experience has been for you but I always have a lot of trouble in the vortex campaign as Teclis against the Skaven. Trying to break into Lustria is like trying to climb up Niagra falls with your bare hands.

I am repeatedly subjected to ambushes against my army by 3 or more stacks of skaven. Often battles are 4-5 to one and I get this over and over. Trying to take a settlement larger than 4 builidings I go up against anywhere from 6-10k Skaven. They seem to be able to produce full stack armies almost every turn from each of their settlements. It is outrageous.

As it is I can barely manage against them with all my attention. I shudder to think how they will be with the inevitable "DLC buff" they will get.

Ugh.
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Comments

  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 3,442
    In most of my campaigns I rarely ever encounter the Skaven, they tend to die off early on.
  • 39821739175248623982173917524862 Registered Users Posts: 879
    The only issue I have with Skaven is their sieges being annoying and when they bring many skirmish units or artillery.
    Otherwise, they aren't that difficult to deal with. I am thankful for once that we have corruption mechanics where we don't have to suffer attrition in.
  • IzarielIzariel Registered Users Posts: 585
    The last several games i have done they have wiped out pretty much everything else in Lustria and have countless numbers.

    Their armies come in peicemeal. While I am trying to take out their initial attack where it is about 3 to 1 I am able to do so only to see two whole new, fresh armies coming at me from different sides of the map. It is almost impossible to hold any type of line after my initial losses and with so many new units joining the fight. Add to that many, many previously broken units rejoining the fight from all directions.

    It is not fun...

    This seems to happen where ever I am. I have no idea why my experience seems to be so different from yours.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 3,239
    How would they be even more OP if they're not even OP in the first place ?
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Registered Users Posts: 2,548
    Wait really? Skaven get steam rolled in almost everygame unless I intervene. Sometimes Skrolk takes over Lustria but that is usually only if everyone else down there ignores him as they kill each other.
  • ConradToskanConradToskan Registered Users Posts: 216
    The only problem I had with AI skaven was that they never get going and fail everytime to do something substancial...
  • RikisRikis Registered Users Posts: 1,257
    Are you talking about the vortex armies that spawn out of nowhere or Clan Pestilens? Although I do rarely see some skaven get the upper hand, its more the exception to the rule. I honestly cant say that I had such an experience of overwhelming skaven invasions.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 8,315
    Now we will finally see the vermintide!!
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Registered Users Posts: 4,416
    Yeah they are tricky to fight, nut they should be extremely hatd to take down, since they are **** vermin. Thats why I fpcus them as soon as I can before they spread too much


  • misunderstoodvampiremisunderstoodvampire Registered Users Posts: 792
    Skaven are the second worst faction in the game behind Brettonia currently. Hope after the next update both of them will be greatly improved
  • VacmidvalleyVacmidvalley Registered Users Posts: 230
    Izariel said:

    I am not sure how the experience has been for you but I always have a lot of trouble in the vortex campaign as Teclis against the Skaven. Trying to break into Lustria is like trying to climb up Niagra falls with your bare hands.

    I am repeatedly subjected to ambushes against my army by 3 or more stacks of skaven. Often battles are 4-5 to one and I get this over and over. Trying to take a settlement larger than 4 builidings I go up against anywhere from 6-10k Skaven. They seem to be able to produce full stack armies almost every turn from each of their settlements. It is outrageous.

    As it is I can barely manage against them with all my attention. I shudder to think how they will be with the inevitable "DLC buff" they will get.

    Ugh.

    Git gud.
  • PdcGunnerPdcGunner Registered Users Posts: 374
    Skaven tend to be hit or miss in terms of how effective they are.

    Queek gets bullied often in his start by being by Undead, Kroc Gar and Grimgor. I have seen him surivive but not thrive.


    Tretch seems to be able to hold onto a small kingdom in Naggaroth, nothing major but noteable.


    Skrolk either dominates with Luthor Harkon and divides up Lustria or gets wiped with Luthor suviving anyway.


    Hellpit kida just stays to itself until wiped by Kislev or Norsca.

    same with Skavenblight, but often get wiped by either Arnessa or Noctilus.

    this is around the 150 turn mark for your information.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 5,948
    Queek just dies and Tretch sometimes survives. Skrolk is really the only Skaven that lives on, in Vortex anyway, ME is questionable.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 3,442
    PdcGunner said:

    Skaven tend to be hit or miss in terms of how effective they are.

    Queek gets bullied often in his start by being by Undead, Kroc Gar and Grimgor. I have seen him surivive but not thrive.


    Tretch seems to be able to hold onto a small kingdom in Naggaroth, nothing major but noteable.


    Skrolk either dominates with Luthor Harkon and divides up Lustria or gets wiped with Luthor suviving anyway.


    Hellpit kida just stays to itself until wiped by Kislev or Norsca.

    same with Skavenblight, but often get wiped by either Arnessa or Noctilus.

    this is around the 150 turn mark for your information.

    I did have one time where Tretch wiped out Malekith and got #5 in the power rankings, but I never actually had to fight him.
  • IzarielIzariel Registered Users Posts: 585
    That is crazy. It is not a matter of "git good". Skrolk just wrecks in Lustria on my vortex campaigns recently.
  • PdcGunnerPdcGunner Registered Users Posts: 374
    Izariel said:

    That is crazy. It is not a matter of "git good". Skrolk just wrecks in Lustria on my vortex campaigns recently.

    Out of all the Skaven LLs, Skrolk has the best chance to expand, Second place to Trech, 3rd, Queek.
  • DaGangsterDaGangster Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,048
    Dark elves are just about the only campaign I've ever fought Skaven to be honest. The only other time they are present is when I play chaos and ally with hell pit.

    Team Vampire Counts

    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
    Well, the Skaven are a weird one. They're OP vs the player, but generally don't fare all that well courtesy the autoresolve.

    On one had, they're very cancerous for the player to fight in the Campaign courtesy their nonsensical ambush on attack (which doesn't make sense on so many levels). Their army is also pretty decent and can put quite a dent in player forces.

    On the other hand, they're pretty terrible on autoresolve, which means that we don't generally see them all that often on the Campaign, which is a but of a blessing, since they, Alith Anar and Beastmen aren't actually all that fun to fight courtesy their OP campaign mechanics.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 7,448
    Luv it!
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 8,315
    I play ME (many campaigns 90-150 turns mostly) and ive seen skaven become top 5 once (queek)
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,288
    played a lot of ME campaigns and the only skaven that persists is Skrolk, dont know anything about vortex campaign at the moment.
  • BetoBotBetoBot Registered Users Posts: 247
    Skaven OP? Never had a decent fight with them....
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Registered Users Posts: 3,367
    Skaven becoming a massive threat would be a welcome addition, not a subtraction.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 22,730
    cool_lad said:

    Well, the Skaven are a weird one. They're OP vs the player, but generally don't fare all that well courtesy the autoresolve.

    I beat 2500 Skaven with 1000 Dark Elves. OP vs the player? When?


  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,594
    Skaven sieges and their menace below mechanic is exceptionally annoying... but I'd not say they're OP against the player.
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  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
    Canuovea said:

    Skaven sieges and their menace below mechanic is exceptionally annoying... but I'd not say they're OP against the player.

    Well, they're still AI, so they can be countered, but the mechanic literally throws away all sense and gameplay to arbitrarily hand a massive advantage to the attacker by completely ignoring the facts on the campaign map and instead forcing a scenario that's specifically tailored to massively favour for absolutely no rhyme or reason.

    It's the gameplay equivalent of having someone yell "new rules" in the middle of a game, rearrange the entire game to favour himself (you had me surrounded, oh no, that's against the rules and now you must submit to an ambush by my already beaten and very much spotted army) and then proceed to hand himself a ton of advantages out of nowhere under the "new rules" (What is this strategy and tactics you speak of? It has absolutely no bearing here).

    The problem with ambush on attack is that it's extremely cancerous as a mechanic. There is literally never a situation where that makes any sort of sense, and it throws any sort of strategy out of the window due to the automatic nonsensical ambush; and heaven help you if your army depends on artillery.

    Your army is encamped or literally sitting inside a settlement, you can see the Skaven coming and have seen them coming from a mile off, but suddenly, as the battle begins, your army is magically transported to the middle of nowhere in a marching column.

    Something similarly nonsensical happens with the Beastmen, where ambushes universally take place on the beast paths, even against armies that have no reason to be even near a beat path. What heppened? Did the beast paths suddenly extend themselves to ensure that the stationary army that never actually marched through these areas was somehow going through through them?
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 3,390
    In all my games only once, once have the skaven ever made an empire worth fighting in late or even mid game. A tretch and skrolk confederation that I had to tango with as the empire. Every single other game I play Tretch is wiped out, Queen vanishes, Hellpit and the other factions do nothing or get wiped out. Sometimes they clean up what someone else is burning but they never make anything of it. So really I rarely if ever have to contend with them as player.

    When fighting them menance from below means I need to keep a unit back to protect my artillery and ranged units. Or a single cavalry to do the job with ease. Skaven right now are easy to crush as most armies. Especially early on unless you're calling unupgraded clan rats or skavenslaves a huge threat.

    The only really annoyance is chasing ninja rats around the board if I have a faction that cant' tie them up early game.

    I'd welcome actually getting to fight a skaven empire for once. Instead of yet another elf confederation or undead tide.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,594
    Oh yes, the ambush on attack mechanic can be frustrating too. Not OP, necessarily, but annoying.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -The "Spam" flag is not a "disagree" flag. Have a care.
    -...No, no the "Abuse" flag isn't a "disagree" flag either!
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 1,690

    In most of my campaigns I rarely ever encounter the Skaven, they tend to die off early on.

    Yep, Skaven are way underpowered in Campaign, at least last I played.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,254
    Even Skavenblight. One of the most cancerous settlements in the game to assail, dies by like turn 30 to Sartosa.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
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