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Tiktaq'to Salt?

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  • SaitohSaitoh Registered Users Posts: 262
    GD: "No more oversized clones!"

    Also GD: "We want Gor-Rok! We want Nakai! We want dread saurian!"

    CA: "Really getting mixed messages here guys..."
  • endikuxendikux Registered Users Posts: 494
    It's not really about how good or bad a Lord he is.

    A 2-year drought because CA shifted their dev focus to a different market was bound to reap its rewards. You can't justify expect people to wait that long and not be touchy.

    If they had released this exact content 2 year ago there would be very little backlash, or a lot less.

    The longer we went without the more it would take to sate people. With that long a wait we were eating for an A+ not a B-
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,095
    I show no salt to the LM lord choices. I cast a little shade towards their units but overall given we also got Lord Kroak I can't rouse to any real degree on it.
  • BoombastekBoombastek Registered Users Posts: 2,121
    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Unique gameplay first, then Unique start position, the Lore Importance. Thats how it should be decided. So long as it came from any Army Book, White Dwarf article, Supplement book/article or Forgeworld, or even from core specialist games (like Mordheim, Dreadfleet or licensed games like Vermintide)...all of that should be up for consideration.

    So explain me his uniq gameplay, maybe I'm dumb?
    I can't undestand his uniq gameplay.

    He just buff 2 fly unit and when attack his army got +5 attack. Uniq skills end.

    Terradon poop for skink heroes buff his faction wide trait. But skinks ride onto Stegadon.

    25% vision of characters?

    Where his uniq gameplay...
    Thats unique gameplay. He buffs all flying units for Lizardmen, he gives them additional ammo for bombing, and he allows all Skink heroes to automatically start with their flying mounts unlocked alongside starting with his own flying mount on turn one.

    Which other Lizardmen LL does this?

    Compare this to Gor-Rok who would step on the toes of Kroq-Gar by buffing the same Saurus units.
    Oh i got you.

    Uniq gameplay not same as good.

    Uniq gameplay can be bad. It still uniq.

    So we had uniq gameplay that is poor and realy bad. But it uniq so thx CA.

    This what how i must feel my self? Eat **** and say thx?
    Its likely that Gor-Rok will come eventually, so he will make it in. Its better more unique gameplay early on, even if the playstyle isnt the strongest; this isn't a competitive game and is focused on Single Player/CoOp.

    Once a faction's more unique lords are in, then we can double-up on the same lords.
    Yeah like ten in one flying lord.

    Oh wait we aren't touch ten in one and we got more flying lord.

    DLC isn't release, we alredy double-up.
  • D3adgodsD3adgods Registered Users Posts: 64

    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Unique gameplay first, then Unique start position, the Lore Importance. Thats how it should be decided. So long as it came from any Army Book, White Dwarf article, Supplement book/article or Forgeworld, or even from core specialist games (like Mordheim, Dreadfleet or licensed games like Vermintide)...all of that should be up for consideration.

    So explain me his uniq gameplay, maybe I'm dumb?
    I can't undestand his uniq gameplay.

    He just buff 2 fly unit and when attack his army got +5 attack. Uniq skills end.

    Terradon poop for skink heroes buff his faction wide trait. But skinks ride onto Stegadon.

    25% vision of characters?

    Where his uniq gameplay...
    Thats unique gameplay. He buffs all flying units for Lizardmen, he gives them additional ammo for bombing, and he allows all Skink heroes to automatically start with their flying mounts unlocked alongside starting with his own flying mount on turn one.

    Which other Lizardmen LL does this?

    Compare this to Gor-Rok who would step on the toes of Kroq-Gar by buffing the same Saurus units.
    Oh i got you.

    Uniq gameplay not same as good.

    Uniq gameplay can be bad. It still uniq.

    So we had uniq gameplay that is poor and realy bad. But it uniq so thx CA.

    This what how i must feel my self? Eat **** and say thx?
    Its likely that Gor-Rok will come eventually, so he will make it in. Its better more unique gameplay early on, even if the playstyle isnt the strongest; this isn't a competitive game and is focused on Single Player/CoOp.

    Once a faction's more unique lords are in, then we can double-up on the same lords.
    Yeah like ten in one flying lord.

    Oh wait we aren't touch ten in one and we got more flying lord.

    DLC isn't release, we alredy double-up.
    There's a huge difference between a lord who buffs all flying units in his army and a lord with a flying mount. By your logic, both Malekith and Morathi are the dark elf flying focused lords because they can both mount something with wings.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 21,983
    Nyxilis said:

    I show no salt to the LM lord choices. I cast a little shade towards their units but overall given we also got Lord Kroak I can't rouse to any real degree on it.

    Lets be honest here, they could've just given us Kroak. He had the best claim to it, Lord on the TT, been in the book forever. TTT is just the bonus on top of that really.
    Thanks CA for working with Epic Games to give us Troy for free!
  • D3adgodsD3adgods Registered Users Posts: 64

    Nyxilis said:

    I show no salt to the LM lord choices. I cast a little shade towards their units but overall given we also got Lord Kroak I can't rouse to any real degree on it.

    Lets be honest here, they could've just given us Kroak. He had the best claim to it, Lord on the TT, been in the book forever. TTT is just the bonus on top of that really.
    I agree fully with this. I felt Lord Kroak would clash with Mazdamundi's playstyle if he was introduced as a standard LL, so I like what they chose to do instead. Though I think he should have been a quest given lord rather than hero just because stacking Lord Kroak with a fully fledged LL feels like cheating.
  • VildvargVildvarg Registered Users Posts: 487
    I'm vexed by who I want to play on release because I liked the new options with both Skaven and Lizardmen gameplay. I didn't think it possible but I'm even more vexed now that I have a third option in style of how to play the lizardmen.

    Like a lot of people I was hoping for Nakai just to get a different species of lizardman as a lord. As much as I would have appreciated a giant armored regening juggernaut, I'm actually more interested now by the alternate playstyle presented rather than just having another beast of a lord.

    Not everyone was ever going to be reasonably happy with the lord pack, after the wait I certainly don't blame them. However I'm pretty happy with the results. This pack looks fantastic and I'm eager to get my claws on it! (Still to be seen whether they're rat or lizard claws)
  • CrajohCrajoh Member Registered Users Posts: 1,931
    I’m personally looking forward to getting TTT. A flying lord cool, LM ok. But anyway you’re free. If someone gives me a 5buck note. I don’t complain and say oh actually I want it as coins or no change it to a different currency, I just say thank you. I would much rather CA continues to give us FLC rather than going sod it too hard to make people happy. My 2 cents.
    Live your life and try to do no harm.

    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  • DracoknightDracoknight Registered Users Posts: 281
    TL;DR for whomever joined us late to the party:
    What? New legendary lord was added. However not who was expected.
    Why the salt? Due to the CA update policy it might take up to 6 months for *any* content to be pushed out to the game, thus the sub-community of a specific lord or faction (Rightfully or not is up to you) is disappointing due to the lack of X lord or faction due to something else taking its "space".

    The "space" in this definition is the development space, or "content/release" space where something takes away the opportunity for something to be added, and we would have to wait another 6 months for more content, and as previous observations have proved a faction rarely get any content again after the first initial drop. (not counting reworks, and the last exception to this was the 30th ROR drop for old factions)

    ....this was rather long for a TL;DR, but i saved you like 10 threads and 100 posts and bickering! :D
  • BoombastekBoombastek Registered Users Posts: 2,121
    D3adgods said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Unique gameplay first, then Unique start position, the Lore Importance. Thats how it should be decided. So long as it came from any Army Book, White Dwarf article, Supplement book/article or Forgeworld, or even from core specialist games (like Mordheim, Dreadfleet or licensed games like Vermintide)...all of that should be up for consideration.

    So explain me his uniq gameplay, maybe I'm dumb?
    I can't undestand his uniq gameplay.

    He just buff 2 fly unit and when attack his army got +5 attack. Uniq skills end.

    Terradon poop for skink heroes buff his faction wide trait. But skinks ride onto Stegadon.

    25% vision of characters?

    Where his uniq gameplay...
    Thats unique gameplay. He buffs all flying units for Lizardmen, he gives them additional ammo for bombing, and he allows all Skink heroes to automatically start with their flying mounts unlocked alongside starting with his own flying mount on turn one.

    Which other Lizardmen LL does this?

    Compare this to Gor-Rok who would step on the toes of Kroq-Gar by buffing the same Saurus units.
    Oh i got you.

    Uniq gameplay not same as good.

    Uniq gameplay can be bad. It still uniq.

    So we had uniq gameplay that is poor and realy bad. But it uniq so thx CA.

    This what how i must feel my self? Eat **** and say thx?
    Its likely that Gor-Rok will come eventually, so he will make it in. Its better more unique gameplay early on, even if the playstyle isnt the strongest; this isn't a competitive game and is focused on Single Player/CoOp.

    Once a faction's more unique lords are in, then we can double-up on the same lords.
    Yeah like ten in one flying lord.

    Oh wait we aren't touch ten in one and we got more flying lord.

    DLC isn't release, we alredy double-up.
    There's a huge difference between a lord who buffs all flying units in his army and a lord with a flying mount. By your logic, both Malekith and Morathi are the dark elf flying focused lords because they can both mount something with wings.
    That not me said that gor rok is double up of Kroq gar.

    You complete miss guy who you must Quote.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 5,934
    I feel Gor-Rok and Tetto'eko are still more interesting from a narrative pov, more unique and badass. But this guy isn't bad. Better than Ghorst and Tretch. And, God help me, Cylostra.
  • John_KimbleJohn_Kimble Registered Users Posts: 751
    edited April 2019
    Ive been an LM fan since 4th ed. TT, so really, deep down i'll never be dissappointed at any new LM content we get (or Warhammer content as a whole for that matter). Honestly, with the amount of LM content we're getting (DLC + Kroak + FLC) i can't really complain about anything at all.
    I'll admit, gut reaction from his announcement was me being extremely surprised and straight up sad, as i was really hoping for Gor-Rok and/or an Itza start (i've been wanting to play as Itza since LM got announced). That's my fault though, as it was the first time where i excessively overhyped myself way too much.

    I've always liked Tik, he's a cool character with a cool lore and a great name. I actually named him, some time ago, as a very valid option for the FLC lord specifically because (despite him being far from my top pick) he would be one of the few that gameplay-wise, would really stand out and bring something unique (i.e. a flying LL).
    The "problem" i have with him, after having watched his stream and knowing what we're getting with the DLC, is that he just really is not that unique or special, definitely as unique as he could and should have been.

    First of all, he's awkwardly tied to a DLC unit, to a much greater extent than any of the previous lords. Rippers to him are what Shadow walkers are to Alith, they define the character and what his whole point is. I wish we would have gotten some kind of FLC Terradon unit at least, to make up for it. I obviously have the preorder already so i shouldn't care, but it just feels a bit weird. I guess it's a valid marketing strategy, and the DLC is very cheap so you might as well buy it really.

    Most importantly, though, CA decided to give a Ripperdactyl mount to both Tehenhauin AND the new Skink Chief Lord. To me this is the biggest issue i have with the FLC choice. Seriously, i'll have my perfectly valid flying stack during my Tehenhauin playthrough, with a Skink Chief on a Ripper and Rippers and Terradons. I may as well rename him to TikTaq'to. Yes, obviously Tik has tons of buffs that make Rippers and Terradons stronger, but he's just not unique at all in playstyle. I can perfectly replicate what he offers, albeit with slightly weaker stats, while playing as another faction.
    This honestly bothers me. I wish they hadn't given Rippers as mounts to anyone. THEN, Tik would really have been 100% unique in everything he'd offer, both in SP and MP, and i would have really gotten behind CA's decision to choose him as the FLC. The most interesting thing of his entire faction is pretty much the unique rite.

    Some other minor issues i have:
    Im not a fan of his startpos., especially in the ME map. Especially because it didn't result neither in a southwards expansion of the map (unlikely i know) nor in the opening of the Gulf of Medes (the least i expected), but just to an additional cramming and a straight up displacement of an ancient temple city and it's surrounding jungle to where it's not supposed to be at all (moved across the continent to Araby..)
    Lorewise, he's 100% subservient to Mazdamundi and 100% tied to Hexoatl and it's defences. I get Kroq being sent across the planet, but now Tik as well kind of bothers my loresense a little. I actually miss LL's starting in the same place and belonging to the same faction. Honestly i wouldn't have minded AT ALL if in ME he'd just start in Hexoatl as well, recruitable during a campaign after some objective (and viceversa, he could have "awakened" Mazdamundi if you started as him).
    Lizardmen now are very Hexoatl centric. I still hold a glimmer of hope for the Itza-side of things, which has always been the "side" that interested me the most (especially because of its extremely rich and epic history compared to the little that the more "recent" Hexoatl has).

    And finally, and this is just a pet-peeve of mine, i just don't find Tik visually very interesting or unique enough, and i'm not talking about him being a reskin or whatever (i don't agree). CA as usual did an awesome job animating him and making him look like what he's supposed to look. It's just that he's the named version of the Skink Chief unit and the way he looks to me is just visually not too appealing or distinctive. He is essentially really just a skink chief with a sweet mask, who rides on a Terradon that really doesn't look any different than the rest. I've been seeing Skink Chiefs on Terradons constantly since this game's release, and visually he just looks like another one of the bunch. Compared to the other named versions of units (bar Chakax), he's the one that looks least distinctive. The named Skink Priest sits and rides his very own Palanquin, the named Scar-vet is massive albino Saurus with a huge shield, the named Chamaleon Skink is on steroids and looks very alien-like and drastically different from the rest.
    I also find the other named characters to be lorewise just more interesting and appealing to me.
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,376

    Ive been an LM fan since 4th ed. TT, so really, deep down i'll never be dissappointed at any new LM content we get (or Warhammer content as a whole for that matter). Honestly, with the amount of LM content we're getting (DLC + Kroak + FLC) i can't really complain about anything at all.
    I'll admit, gut reaction from his announcement was me being extremely surprised and straight up sad, as i was really hoping for Gor-Rok and/or an Itza start (i've been wanting to play as Itza since LM got announced). That's my fault though, as it was the first time where i excessively overhyped myself way too much.

    I've always liked Tik, he's a cool character with a cool lore and a great name. I actually named him, some time ago, as a very valid option for the FLC lord specifically because (despite him being far from my top pick) he would be one of the few that gameplay-wise, would really stand out and bring something unique (i.e. a flying LL).
    The "problem" i have with him, after having watched his stream and knowing what we're getting with the DLC, is that he just really is not that unique or special, definitely as unique as he could and should have been.

    First of all, he's awkwardly tied to a DLC unit, to a much greater extent than any of the previous lords. Rippers to him are what Shadow walkers are to Alith, they define the character and what his whole point is. I wish we would have gotten some kind of FLC Terradon unit at least, to make up for it. I obviously have the preorder already so i shouldn't care, but it just feels a bit weird. I guess it's a valid marketing strategy, and the DLC is very cheap so you might as well buy it really.

    Most importantly, though, CA decided to give a Ripperdactyl mount to both Tehenhauin AND the new Skink Chief Lord. To me this is the biggest issue i have with the FLC choice. Seriously, i'll have my perfectly valid flying stack during my Tehenhauin playthrough, with a Skink Chief on a Ripper and Rippers and Terradons. I may as well rename him to TikTaq'to. Yes, obviously Tik has tons of buffs that make Rippers and Terradons stronger, but he's just not unique at all in playstyle. I can perfectly replicate what he offers, albeit with slightly weaker stats, while playing as another faction.
    This honestly bothers me. I wish they hadn't given Rippers as mounts to anyone. THEN, Tik would really have been 100% unique in everything he'd offer, both in SP and MP, and i would have really gotten behind CA's decision to choose him as the FLC. The most interesting thing of his entire faction is pretty much the unique rite.

    Some other minor issues i have:
    Im not a fan of his startpos., especially in the ME map. Especially because it didn't result neither in a southwards expansion of the map (unlikely i know) nor in the opening of the Gulf of Medes (the least i expected), but just to an additional cramming and a straight up displacement of an ancient temple city and it's surrounding jungle to where it's not supposed to be at all (moved across the continent to Araby..)
    Lorewise, he's 100% subservient to Mazdamundi and 100% tied to Hexoatl and it's defences. I get Kroq being sent across the planet, but now Tik as well kind of bothers my loresense a little. I actually miss LL's starting in the same place and belonging to the same faction. Honestly i wouldn't have minded AT ALL if in ME he'd just start in Hexoatl as well, recruitable during a campaign after some objective (and viceversa, he could have "awakened" Mazdamundi if you started as him).
    Lizardmen now are very Hexoatl centric. I still hold a glimmer of hope for the Itza-side of things, which has always been the "side" that interested me the most (especially because of its extremely rich and epic history compared to the little that the more "recent" Hexoatl has).

    And finally, and this is just a pet-peeve of mine, i just don't find Tik visually very interesting or unique enough, and i'm not talking about him being a reskin or whatever (i don't agree). CA as usual did an awesome job animating him and making him look like what he's supposed to look. It's just that he's the named version of the Skink Chief unit and the way he looks to me is just visually not too appealing or distinctive. He is essentially really just a skink chief with a sweet mask, who rides on a Terradon that really doesn't look any different than the rest. I've been seeing Skink Chiefs on Terradons constantly since this game's release, and visually he just looks like another one of the bunch. Compared to the other named versions of units (bar Chakax), he's the one that looks least distinctive. The named Skink Priest sits and rides his very own Palanquin, the named Scar-vet is massive albino Saurus with a huge shield, the named Chamaleon Skink is on steroids and looks very alien-like and drastically different from the rest.
    I also find the other named characters to be lorewise just more interesting and appealing to me.

    All perfectly valid reasons in my book. Like I said, if you don't like him because of visuals or start position or whatever other gameplay choices or you just like other characters better, that's fine. It's a matter of preference and opinion. I find it a bit odd that he isn't starting in Hexoatl as well, and I would have been totally fine if he did.

  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 591

    I don't, however, like the fact that one of the primary units he is focused on buffing, Ripperdactyls, are part of a DLC and not available to the people who just want to buy the DLC but want to play Tiktaq'to. Yes, he buffs Terradons more and you can still field an army of Terradons, but it's not very realistic to have a Terradon army without Ripperdactyls. Terradons are fragile and need to be protected. And it's boring to only have one unit. I get that it's a marketing play by CA to get people to buy the DLC, and I can't complain too much since I'm buying the DLC anyway, but it rubs me the wrong way that they would create a lord that all players can use but not give everyone access to the one unit that really makes his kind of playstyle really viable. It's like when they introduced Alith Anar as a FLC, but then you have to buy the DLC to access his units, the Shadow Walkers. At least he got a unique unit to mitigate that.

    I agree with everything you said, but this bears repeating: the frustration over being given an FLC Lord whose specialty includes a DLC-only unit would have been lessened by giving that specific Lord a campaign-only buffed version of the DLC-only unit. Additionally, for TTT in particular, it would have made him more fun even with the DLC, since the Lizardmen are not exactly spoilt for choice for flying units (it's literally only two, discouting mounted skink priests).
    Totally agree and I was surprised CA didn't go this way. Alith Anar got shadow walkers while shadow warriors were in the DLC. I was asking for tiqtak to as FLC lord, but with a special Ripperdactyl unit.
  • SaurianDruidSaurianDruid Registered Users Posts: 1,128


    Most importantly, though, CA decided to give a Ripperdactyl mount to both Tehenhauin AND the new Skink Chief Lord. To me this is the biggest issue i have with the FLC choice. Seriously, i'll have my perfectly valid flying stack during my Tehenhauin playthrough, with a Skink Chief on a Ripper and Rippers and Terradons. I may as well rename him to TikTaq'to. Yes, obviously Tik has tons of buffs that make Rippers and Terradons stronger, but he's just not unique at all in playstyle. I can perfectly replicate what he offers, albeit with slightly weaker stats, while playing as another faction.
    This honestly bothers me. I wish they hadn't given Rippers as mounts to anyone. THEN, Tik would really have been 100% unique in everything he'd offer, both in SP and MP, and i would have really gotten behind CA's decision to choose him as the FLC. The most interesting thing of his entire faction is pretty much the unique rite.

    Solid points. Kudos on admitting he's just not your preference, I can respect that. Most people upset about Tiktaq'to are trying to argue that he's just a terrible, nobody character which is disingenuous.

    On this point I definitely get where you're coming from. Tehenhauin shouldn't have gotten a ripperdactyl. It isn't very lore friendly and it does diminish the importance of Tiktaq'to and what makes him unique as the only flying Lizardmen lord.

    I actually don't mind the red crested skinks though, personally. Mostly because I like to make characters with backstories when I play, and when I play Tiktaq'to I'd really want a generic lord that rides a ripper or a terradon who has fought under him in the past and now leads their own army. Having other lords that can also fly and lead flight heavy armies could be a big part of what I enjoy about his faction. I'd want a decent number of those armies lead by skinks on flying creatures to simulate his subordinate aerial commanders.
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