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Community Polls for future FLC lords?

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  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 4,842Registered Users
    Xenos7 said:

    SiWI said:

    Canuovea said:

    Nyxilis said:

    What is the most popular isn't always what is best. Popular vote was really gunning for Nakai, but he's a terrible option that requires a complete mangling of his lore and character to fit into a lord position.

    Never make a game, movie, book, or any creative work by vote. The loudest voices are seldom the most trust worthy and the majority can still be wrong.

    Sure 'developers know better'. That is how we have ended up with Ghorst, Tretch, Cylostra and TTT. Instead of giving us what we want they should give us what they think we should want and what would be the best for the game. Big Brother knows the best.

    It is a game. We should get what we want. People are simple creatures, we like big and bad things. Rule of cool is part of us. We are fine with 'complete mangling of his lore and character' as long as we are going to be able to drool and scream 'croc rage' in ecstasy.
    Oh stop complaining about Cylostra, 99% of total war Warhammer players didn't even know who Vangheist etc were.

    Also yeah remember GW approves everything CA does, it's their license they can pick what ever characters they want or even make them up.
    It doesn't matter. If they have made a ghost of let's say mutant sharkman then its reception would be much, much better.

    No, as far as I kno GW can't pick characters, they can deny picks though.
    Anyone who remembers Street Sharks will realize that a show about mutant sharks can be bad.

    But basically by your logic CA shouldn't have made a game about Warhammer and just one about a bunch of kaiju armies smashing the world. Because Godzilla games have always sold so well.

    Yes, SocJus spawned fat woman would win in popularity contest with a sharkman wraith. I see it.

    I'm sure you don't follow 'my logic' so please, don't do it in the future. There were many terrible kaiju games made with low budget. Now let's try game about obese woman on a crab. Now that would be a top seller. For sure.
    I dunno, Vampire Coast seems to have done pretty well to me.
    No thanks to her.
    prove it.
    Common sense.
    Xenos7 said:

    My problem with Cylostra is that it looks extremely comedic. She isn't actually comedic, as a character. She's even tragic, a bit of her lore is very good. But she just doesn't make sense as a Bretonnian opera singer. The over-the-top makeup, the fan, that weird combing. WTF. Why didn't they use the prophetess and the damsel as a base for a troubador girl chanter? She would have been a lot easier on the eye, be more compatible with Bretonnian quasi-medieval lore and represented nicely her tragic story. A beautiful, bitter syreen luring sailors to their death with her voice. I can't imagine someone being lured *by Cylostra* honestly.

    Paraphrase of what is said about 10th minute of this Rally Point



    "At this point they knew they wanted an ethereal lord, a caster for the faction and a female that does not come in the 'typical female shape' because people come in all shapes and sizes."

    SocJus taint, that is why we need to suffer her existence in the current form.
    Well, people come in all shapes and sizes, that's true. It's also true that opera singer tend to be heavy-built. That's just reality. But folks, you can't tell me a fat opera singer looking like Ursula from The Little Mermaid and wearing a Pierrot-like makeup isn't comedic. If they wanted to make a comedic character, then sure, I hate comedic characters, but whatever. But they made a genuinely tragic character and gave her a Laurel & Hardy appearance, that's just jarring.*

    *(that's not to say tragic character can't be ugly. The Mule in Asimov books, Richard III and so on. Just not ugly *like Cylostra*)
    Of course it is true, it's just that their representation is unnecessary. The thing with opera singers is simple, there aren't many of them so they will get a job no matter how they neglect themselves.

    There were many ways to make her look thematically good, bloated corpse body or a wispy one like Lady Olynder from AoS.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 2,970Registered Users

    Xenos7 said:

    SiWI said:

    Canuovea said:

    Nyxilis said:

    What is the most popular isn't always what is best. Popular vote was really gunning for Nakai, but he's a terrible option that requires a complete mangling of his lore and character to fit into a lord position.

    Never make a game, movie, book, or any creative work by vote. The loudest voices are seldom the most trust worthy and the majority can still be wrong.

    Sure 'developers know better'. That is how we have ended up with Ghorst, Tretch, Cylostra and TTT. Instead of giving us what we want they should give us what they think we should want and what would be the best for the game. Big Brother knows the best.

    It is a game. We should get what we want. People are simple creatures, we like big and bad things. Rule of cool is part of us. We are fine with 'complete mangling of his lore and character' as long as we are going to be able to drool and scream 'croc rage' in ecstasy.
    Oh stop complaining about Cylostra, 99% of total war Warhammer players didn't even know who Vangheist etc were.

    Also yeah remember GW approves everything CA does, it's their license they can pick what ever characters they want or even make them up.
    It doesn't matter. If they have made a ghost of let's say mutant sharkman then its reception would be much, much better.

    No, as far as I kno GW can't pick characters, they can deny picks though.
    Anyone who remembers Street Sharks will realize that a show about mutant sharks can be bad.

    But basically by your logic CA shouldn't have made a game about Warhammer and just one about a bunch of kaiju armies smashing the world. Because Godzilla games have always sold so well.

    Yes, SocJus spawned fat woman would win in popularity contest with a sharkman wraith. I see it.

    I'm sure you don't follow 'my logic' so please, don't do it in the future. There were many terrible kaiju games made with low budget. Now let's try game about obese woman on a crab. Now that would be a top seller. For sure.
    I dunno, Vampire Coast seems to have done pretty well to me.
    No thanks to her.
    prove it.
    Common sense.
    Xenos7 said:

    My problem with Cylostra is that it looks extremely comedic. She isn't actually comedic, as a character. She's even tragic, a bit of her lore is very good. But she just doesn't make sense as a Bretonnian opera singer. The over-the-top makeup, the fan, that weird combing. WTF. Why didn't they use the prophetess and the damsel as a base for a troubador girl chanter? She would have been a lot easier on the eye, be more compatible with Bretonnian quasi-medieval lore and represented nicely her tragic story. A beautiful, bitter syreen luring sailors to their death with her voice. I can't imagine someone being lured *by Cylostra* honestly.

    Paraphrase of what is said about 10th minute of this Rally Point



    "At this point they knew they wanted an ethereal lord, a caster for the faction and a female that does not come in the 'typical female shape' because people come in all shapes and sizes."

    SocJus taint, that is why we need to suffer her existence in the current form.
    Well, people come in all shapes and sizes, that's true. It's also true that opera singer tend to be heavy-built. That's just reality. But folks, you can't tell me a fat opera singer looking like Ursula from The Little Mermaid and wearing a Pierrot-like makeup isn't comedic. If they wanted to make a comedic character, then sure, I hate comedic characters, but whatever. But they made a genuinely tragic character and gave her a Laurel & Hardy appearance, that's just jarring.*

    *(that's not to say tragic character can't be ugly. The Mule in Asimov books, Richard III and so on. Just not ugly *like Cylostra*)
    Of course it is true, it's just that their representation is unnecessary. The thing with opera singers is simple, there aren't many of them so they will get a job no matter how they neglect themselves.

    There were many ways to make her look thematically good, bloated corpse body or a wispy one like Lady Olynder from AoS.
    Now you're just on the other end of the spectrum saying fat people harm your existence for just existing. Oh no, my pretty darling eyes. They burn because I can handle this dark grim world full of gore, horror, and deformed individuals because of the very nature of chaos and definitely not a swim suit magazine but this one overweight character? It harms my very soul.

    Laughable.
  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 4,864Registered Users

    Xenos7 said:

    SiWI said:

    Canuovea said:

    Nyxilis said:

    What is the most popular isn't always what is best. Popular vote was really gunning for Nakai, but he's a terrible option that requires a complete mangling of his lore and character to fit into a lord position.

    Never make a game, movie, book, or any creative work by vote. The loudest voices are seldom the most trust worthy and the majority can still be wrong.

    Sure 'developers know better'. That is how we have ended up with Ghorst, Tretch, Cylostra and TTT. Instead of giving us what we want they should give us what they think we should want and what would be the best for the game. Big Brother knows the best.

    It is a game. We should get what we want. People are simple creatures, we like big and bad things. Rule of cool is part of us. We are fine with 'complete mangling of his lore and character' as long as we are going to be able to drool and scream 'croc rage' in ecstasy.
    Oh stop complaining about Cylostra, 99% of total war Warhammer players didn't even know who Vangheist etc were.

    Also yeah remember GW approves everything CA does, it's their license they can pick what ever characters they want or even make them up.
    It doesn't matter. If they have made a ghost of let's say mutant sharkman then its reception would be much, much better.

    No, as far as I kno GW can't pick characters, they can deny picks though.
    Anyone who remembers Street Sharks will realize that a show about mutant sharks can be bad.

    But basically by your logic CA shouldn't have made a game about Warhammer and just one about a bunch of kaiju armies smashing the world. Because Godzilla games have always sold so well.

    Yes, SocJus spawned fat woman would win in popularity contest with a sharkman wraith. I see it.

    I'm sure you don't follow 'my logic' so please, don't do it in the future. There were many terrible kaiju games made with low budget. Now let's try game about obese woman on a crab. Now that would be a top seller. For sure.
    I dunno, Vampire Coast seems to have done pretty well to me.
    No thanks to her.
    prove it.
    Common sense.
    Xenos7 said:

    My problem with Cylostra is that it looks extremely comedic. She isn't actually comedic, as a character. She's even tragic, a bit of her lore is very good. But she just doesn't make sense as a Bretonnian opera singer. The over-the-top makeup, the fan, that weird combing. WTF. Why didn't they use the prophetess and the damsel as a base for a troubador girl chanter? She would have been a lot easier on the eye, be more compatible with Bretonnian quasi-medieval lore and represented nicely her tragic story. A beautiful, bitter syreen luring sailors to their death with her voice. I can't imagine someone being lured *by Cylostra* honestly.

    Paraphrase of what is said about 10th minute of this Rally Point



    "At this point they knew they wanted an ethereal lord, a caster for the faction and a female that does not come in the 'typical female shape' because people come in all shapes and sizes."

    SocJus taint, that is why we need to suffer her existence in the current form.
    Well, people come in all shapes and sizes, that's true. It's also true that opera singer tend to be heavy-built. That's just reality. But folks, you can't tell me a fat opera singer looking like Ursula from The Little Mermaid and wearing a Pierrot-like makeup isn't comedic. If they wanted to make a comedic character, then sure, I hate comedic characters, but whatever. But they made a genuinely tragic character and gave her a Laurel & Hardy appearance, that's just jarring.*

    *(that's not to say tragic character can't be ugly. The Mule in Asimov books, Richard III and so on. Just not ugly *like Cylostra*)
    Of course it is true, it's just that their representation is unnecessary. The thing with opera singers is simple, there aren't many of them so they will get a job no matter how they neglect themselves.
    I don't understand this. Opera singers are fat because it helps with their voice. See Luciano Pavarotti. It's just making her a opera singer that was a terrible choice. We don't even know why opera singing exist in Bretonnia.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 4,842Registered Users
    Nyxilis said:

    Xenos7 said:

    SiWI said:

    Canuovea said:

    Nyxilis said:

    What is the most popular isn't always what is best. Popular vote was really gunning for Nakai, but he's a terrible option that requires a complete mangling of his lore and character to fit into a lord position.

    Never make a game, movie, book, or any creative work by vote. The loudest voices are seldom the most trust worthy and the majority can still be wrong.

    Sure 'developers know better'. That is how we have ended up with Ghorst, Tretch, Cylostra and TTT. Instead of giving us what we want they should give us what they think we should want and what would be the best for the game. Big Brother knows the best.

    It is a game. We should get what we want. People are simple creatures, we like big and bad things. Rule of cool is part of us. We are fine with 'complete mangling of his lore and character' as long as we are going to be able to drool and scream 'croc rage' in ecstasy.
    Oh stop complaining about Cylostra, 99% of total war Warhammer players didn't even know who Vangheist etc were.

    Also yeah remember GW approves everything CA does, it's their license they can pick what ever characters they want or even make them up.
    It doesn't matter. If they have made a ghost of let's say mutant sharkman then its reception would be much, much better.

    No, as far as I kno GW can't pick characters, they can deny picks though.
    Anyone who remembers Street Sharks will realize that a show about mutant sharks can be bad.

    But basically by your logic CA shouldn't have made a game about Warhammer and just one about a bunch of kaiju armies smashing the world. Because Godzilla games have always sold so well.

    Yes, SocJus spawned fat woman would win in popularity contest with a sharkman wraith. I see it.

    I'm sure you don't follow 'my logic' so please, don't do it in the future. There were many terrible kaiju games made with low budget. Now let's try game about obese woman on a crab. Now that would be a top seller. For sure.
    I dunno, Vampire Coast seems to have done pretty well to me.
    No thanks to her.
    prove it.
    Common sense.
    Xenos7 said:

    My problem with Cylostra is that it looks extremely comedic. She isn't actually comedic, as a character. She's even tragic, a bit of her lore is very good. But she just doesn't make sense as a Bretonnian opera singer. The over-the-top makeup, the fan, that weird combing. WTF. Why didn't they use the prophetess and the damsel as a base for a troubador girl chanter? She would have been a lot easier on the eye, be more compatible with Bretonnian quasi-medieval lore and represented nicely her tragic story. A beautiful, bitter syreen luring sailors to their death with her voice. I can't imagine someone being lured *by Cylostra* honestly.

    Paraphrase of what is said about 10th minute of this Rally Point



    "At this point they knew they wanted an ethereal lord, a caster for the faction and a female that does not come in the 'typical female shape' because people come in all shapes and sizes."

    SocJus taint, that is why we need to suffer her existence in the current form.
    Well, people come in all shapes and sizes, that's true. It's also true that opera singer tend to be heavy-built. That's just reality. But folks, you can't tell me a fat opera singer looking like Ursula from The Little Mermaid and wearing a Pierrot-like makeup isn't comedic. If they wanted to make a comedic character, then sure, I hate comedic characters, but whatever. But they made a genuinely tragic character and gave her a Laurel & Hardy appearance, that's just jarring.*

    *(that's not to say tragic character can't be ugly. The Mule in Asimov books, Richard III and so on. Just not ugly *like Cylostra*)
    Of course it is true, it's just that their representation is unnecessary. The thing with opera singers is simple, there aren't many of them so they will get a job no matter how they neglect themselves.

    There were many ways to make her look thematically good, bloated corpse body or a wispy one like Lady Olynder from AoS.
    Now you're just on the other end of the spectrum saying fat people harm your existence for just existing. Oh no, my pretty darling eyes. They burn because I can handle this dark grim world full of gore, horror, and deformed individuals because of the very nature of chaos and definitely not a swim suit magazine but this one overweight character? It harms my very soul.

    Laughable.
    I have never said such thing. We get only 4 characters, every one of them should matter. Also she is not overweight, she is morbidly obese. I guess she has died before it could kill her. Lucky one.
    Xenos7 said:

    Xenos7 said:

    SiWI said:

    Canuovea said:

    Nyxilis said:

    What is the most popular isn't always what is best. Popular vote was really gunning for Nakai, but he's a terrible option that requires a complete mangling of his lore and character to fit into a lord position.

    Never make a game, movie, book, or any creative work by vote. The loudest voices are seldom the most trust worthy and the majority can still be wrong.

    Sure 'developers know better'. That is how we have ended up with Ghorst, Tretch, Cylostra and TTT. Instead of giving us what we want they should give us what they think we should want and what would be the best for the game. Big Brother knows the best.

    It is a game. We should get what we want. People are simple creatures, we like big and bad things. Rule of cool is part of us. We are fine with 'complete mangling of his lore and character' as long as we are going to be able to drool and scream 'croc rage' in ecstasy.
    Oh stop complaining about Cylostra, 99% of total war Warhammer players didn't even know who Vangheist etc were.

    Also yeah remember GW approves everything CA does, it's their license they can pick what ever characters they want or even make them up.
    It doesn't matter. If they have made a ghost of let's say mutant sharkman then its reception would be much, much better.

    No, as far as I kno GW can't pick characters, they can deny picks though.
    Anyone who remembers Street Sharks will realize that a show about mutant sharks can be bad.

    But basically by your logic CA shouldn't have made a game about Warhammer and just one about a bunch of kaiju armies smashing the world. Because Godzilla games have always sold so well.

    Yes, SocJus spawned fat woman would win in popularity contest with a sharkman wraith. I see it.

    I'm sure you don't follow 'my logic' so please, don't do it in the future. There were many terrible kaiju games made with low budget. Now let's try game about obese woman on a crab. Now that would be a top seller. For sure.
    I dunno, Vampire Coast seems to have done pretty well to me.
    No thanks to her.
    prove it.
    Common sense.
    Xenos7 said:

    My problem with Cylostra is that it looks extremely comedic. She isn't actually comedic, as a character. She's even tragic, a bit of her lore is very good. But she just doesn't make sense as a Bretonnian opera singer. The over-the-top makeup, the fan, that weird combing. WTF. Why didn't they use the prophetess and the damsel as a base for a troubador girl chanter? She would have been a lot easier on the eye, be more compatible with Bretonnian quasi-medieval lore and represented nicely her tragic story. A beautiful, bitter syreen luring sailors to their death with her voice. I can't imagine someone being lured *by Cylostra* honestly.

    Paraphrase of what is said about 10th minute of this Rally Point



    "At this point they knew they wanted an ethereal lord, a caster for the faction and a female that does not come in the 'typical female shape' because people come in all shapes and sizes."

    SocJus taint, that is why we need to suffer her existence in the current form.
    Well, people come in all shapes and sizes, that's true. It's also true that opera singer tend to be heavy-built. That's just reality. But folks, you can't tell me a fat opera singer looking like Ursula from The Little Mermaid and wearing a Pierrot-like makeup isn't comedic. If they wanted to make a comedic character, then sure, I hate comedic characters, but whatever. But they made a genuinely tragic character and gave her a Laurel & Hardy appearance, that's just jarring.*

    *(that's not to say tragic character can't be ugly. The Mule in Asimov books, Richard III and so on. Just not ugly *like Cylostra*)
    Of course it is true, it's just that their representation is unnecessary. The thing with opera singers is simple, there aren't many of them so they will get a job no matter how they neglect themselves.
    I don't understand this. Opera singers are fat because it helps with their voice. See Luciano Pavarotti. It's just making her a opera singer that was a terrible choice. We don't even know why opera singing exist in Bretonnia.
    That's just a speculation. This article unfortunately uses term 'theory' but the most important part of it is that it has never been proved https://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/23/the_odd_body_opera_singers/ .

    I agree with second part.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 4,864Registered Users

    Nyxilis said:

    Xenos7 said:

    SiWI said:

    Canuovea said:

    Nyxilis said:

    What is the most popular isn't always what is best. Popular vote was really gunning for Nakai, but he's a terrible option that requires a complete mangling of his lore and character to fit into a lord position.

    Never make a game, movie, book, or any creative work by vote. The loudest voices are seldom the most trust worthy and the majority can still be wrong.

    Sure 'developers know better'. That is how we have ended up with Ghorst, Tretch, Cylostra and TTT. Instead of giving us what we want they should give us what they think we should want and what would be the best for the game. Big Brother knows the best.

    It is a game. We should get what we want. People are simple creatures, we like big and bad things. Rule of cool is part of us. We are fine with 'complete mangling of his lore and character' as long as we are going to be able to drool and scream 'croc rage' in ecstasy.
    Oh stop complaining about Cylostra, 99% of total war Warhammer players didn't even know who Vangheist etc were.

    Also yeah remember GW approves everything CA does, it's their license they can pick what ever characters they want or even make them up.
    It doesn't matter. If they have made a ghost of let's say mutant sharkman then its reception would be much, much better.

    No, as far as I kno GW can't pick characters, they can deny picks though.
    Anyone who remembers Street Sharks will realize that a show about mutant sharks can be bad.

    But basically by your logic CA shouldn't have made a game about Warhammer and just one about a bunch of kaiju armies smashing the world. Because Godzilla games have always sold so well.

    Yes, SocJus spawned fat woman would win in popularity contest with a sharkman wraith. I see it.

    I'm sure you don't follow 'my logic' so please, don't do it in the future. There were many terrible kaiju games made with low budget. Now let's try game about obese woman on a crab. Now that would be a top seller. For sure.
    I dunno, Vampire Coast seems to have done pretty well to me.
    No thanks to her.
    prove it.
    Common sense.
    Xenos7 said:

    My problem with Cylostra is that it looks extremely comedic. She isn't actually comedic, as a character. She's even tragic, a bit of her lore is very good. But she just doesn't make sense as a Bretonnian opera singer. The over-the-top makeup, the fan, that weird combing. WTF. Why didn't they use the prophetess and the damsel as a base for a troubador girl chanter? She would have been a lot easier on the eye, be more compatible with Bretonnian quasi-medieval lore and represented nicely her tragic story. A beautiful, bitter syreen luring sailors to their death with her voice. I can't imagine someone being lured *by Cylostra* honestly.

    Paraphrase of what is said about 10th minute of this Rally Point



    "At this point they knew they wanted an ethereal lord, a caster for the faction and a female that does not come in the 'typical female shape' because people come in all shapes and sizes."

    SocJus taint, that is why we need to suffer her existence in the current form.
    Well, people come in all shapes and sizes, that's true. It's also true that opera singer tend to be heavy-built. That's just reality. But folks, you can't tell me a fat opera singer looking like Ursula from The Little Mermaid and wearing a Pierrot-like makeup isn't comedic. If they wanted to make a comedic character, then sure, I hate comedic characters, but whatever. But they made a genuinely tragic character and gave her a Laurel & Hardy appearance, that's just jarring.*

    *(that's not to say tragic character can't be ugly. The Mule in Asimov books, Richard III and so on. Just not ugly *like Cylostra*)
    Of course it is true, it's just that their representation is unnecessary. The thing with opera singers is simple, there aren't many of them so they will get a job no matter how they neglect themselves.

    There were many ways to make her look thematically good, bloated corpse body or a wispy one like Lady Olynder from AoS.
    Now you're just on the other end of the spectrum saying fat people harm your existence for just existing. Oh no, my pretty darling eyes. They burn because I can handle this dark grim world full of gore, horror, and deformed individuals because of the very nature of chaos and definitely not a swim suit magazine but this one overweight character? It harms my very soul.

    Laughable.
    I have never said such thing. We get only 4 characters, every one of them should matter. Also she is not overweight, she is morbidly obese. I guess she has died before it could kill her. Lucky one.
    Xenos7 said:

    Xenos7 said:

    SiWI said:

    Canuovea said:

    Nyxilis said:

    What is the most popular isn't always what is best. Popular vote was really gunning for Nakai, but he's a terrible option that requires a complete mangling of his lore and character to fit into a lord position.

    Never make a game, movie, book, or any creative work by vote. The loudest voices are seldom the most trust worthy and the majority can still be wrong.

    Sure 'developers know better'. That is how we have ended up with Ghorst, Tretch, Cylostra and TTT. Instead of giving us what we want they should give us what they think we should want and what would be the best for the game. Big Brother knows the best.

    It is a game. We should get what we want. People are simple creatures, we like big and bad things. Rule of cool is part of us. We are fine with 'complete mangling of his lore and character' as long as we are going to be able to drool and scream 'croc rage' in ecstasy.
    Oh stop complaining about Cylostra, 99% of total war Warhammer players didn't even know who Vangheist etc were.

    Also yeah remember GW approves everything CA does, it's their license they can pick what ever characters they want or even make them up.
    It doesn't matter. If they have made a ghost of let's say mutant sharkman then its reception would be much, much better.

    No, as far as I kno GW can't pick characters, they can deny picks though.
    Anyone who remembers Street Sharks will realize that a show about mutant sharks can be bad.

    But basically by your logic CA shouldn't have made a game about Warhammer and just one about a bunch of kaiju armies smashing the world. Because Godzilla games have always sold so well.

    Yes, SocJus spawned fat woman would win in popularity contest with a sharkman wraith. I see it.

    I'm sure you don't follow 'my logic' so please, don't do it in the future. There were many terrible kaiju games made with low budget. Now let's try game about obese woman on a crab. Now that would be a top seller. For sure.
    I dunno, Vampire Coast seems to have done pretty well to me.
    No thanks to her.
    prove it.
    Common sense.
    Xenos7 said:

    My problem with Cylostra is that it looks extremely comedic. She isn't actually comedic, as a character. She's even tragic, a bit of her lore is very good. But she just doesn't make sense as a Bretonnian opera singer. The over-the-top makeup, the fan, that weird combing. WTF. Why didn't they use the prophetess and the damsel as a base for a troubador girl chanter? She would have been a lot easier on the eye, be more compatible with Bretonnian quasi-medieval lore and represented nicely her tragic story. A beautiful, bitter syreen luring sailors to their death with her voice. I can't imagine someone being lured *by Cylostra* honestly.

    Paraphrase of what is said about 10th minute of this Rally Point



    "At this point they knew they wanted an ethereal lord, a caster for the faction and a female that does not come in the 'typical female shape' because people come in all shapes and sizes."

    SocJus taint, that is why we need to suffer her existence in the current form.
    Well, people come in all shapes and sizes, that's true. It's also true that opera singer tend to be heavy-built. That's just reality. But folks, you can't tell me a fat opera singer looking like Ursula from The Little Mermaid and wearing a Pierrot-like makeup isn't comedic. If they wanted to make a comedic character, then sure, I hate comedic characters, but whatever. But they made a genuinely tragic character and gave her a Laurel & Hardy appearance, that's just jarring.*

    *(that's not to say tragic character can't be ugly. The Mule in Asimov books, Richard III and so on. Just not ugly *like Cylostra*)
    Of course it is true, it's just that their representation is unnecessary. The thing with opera singers is simple, there aren't many of them so they will get a job no matter how they neglect themselves.
    I don't understand this. Opera singers are fat because it helps with their voice. See Luciano Pavarotti. It's just making her a opera singer that was a terrible choice. We don't even know why opera singing exist in Bretonnia.
    That's just a speculation. This article unfortunately uses term 'theory' but the most important part of it is that it has never been proved https://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/23/the_odd_body_opera_singers/ .

    I agree with second part.
    It seems to me way more probable than the idea that they just let themselves slide into obesity because they have a guaranteed job. I mean, high-energy theoretical physicists are equally rare but they aren't known to be fat.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 4,842Registered Users
    Xenos7 said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Xenos7 said:

    SiWI said:

    Canuovea said:

    Nyxilis said:

    What is the most popular isn't always what is best. Popular vote was really gunning for Nakai, but he's a terrible option that requires a complete mangling of his lore and character to fit into a lord position.

    Never make a game, movie, book, or any creative work by vote. The loudest voices are seldom the most trust worthy and the majority can still be wrong.

    Sure 'developers know better'. That is how we have ended up with Ghorst, Tretch, Cylostra and TTT. Instead of giving us what we want they should give us what they think we should want and what would be the best for the game. Big Brother knows the best.

    It is a game. We should get what we want. People are simple creatures, we like big and bad things. Rule of cool is part of us. We are fine with 'complete mangling of his lore and character' as long as we are going to be able to drool and scream 'croc rage' in ecstasy.
    Oh stop complaining about Cylostra, 99% of total war Warhammer players didn't even know who Vangheist etc were.

    Also yeah remember GW approves everything CA does, it's their license they can pick what ever characters they want or even make them up.
    It doesn't matter. If they have made a ghost of let's say mutant sharkman then its reception would be much, much better.

    No, as far as I kno GW can't pick characters, they can deny picks though.
    Anyone who remembers Street Sharks will realize that a show about mutant sharks can be bad.

    But basically by your logic CA shouldn't have made a game about Warhammer and just one about a bunch of kaiju armies smashing the world. Because Godzilla games have always sold so well.

    Yes, SocJus spawned fat woman would win in popularity contest with a sharkman wraith. I see it.

    I'm sure you don't follow 'my logic' so please, don't do it in the future. There were many terrible kaiju games made with low budget. Now let's try game about obese woman on a crab. Now that would be a top seller. For sure.
    I dunno, Vampire Coast seems to have done pretty well to me.
    No thanks to her.
    prove it.
    Common sense.
    Xenos7 said:

    My problem with Cylostra is that it looks extremely comedic. She isn't actually comedic, as a character. She's even tragic, a bit of her lore is very good. But she just doesn't make sense as a Bretonnian opera singer. The over-the-top makeup, the fan, that weird combing. WTF. Why didn't they use the prophetess and the damsel as a base for a troubador girl chanter? She would have been a lot easier on the eye, be more compatible with Bretonnian quasi-medieval lore and represented nicely her tragic story. A beautiful, bitter syreen luring sailors to their death with her voice. I can't imagine someone being lured *by Cylostra* honestly.

    Paraphrase of what is said about 10th minute of this Rally Point



    "At this point they knew they wanted an ethereal lord, a caster for the faction and a female that does not come in the 'typical female shape' because people come in all shapes and sizes."

    SocJus taint, that is why we need to suffer her existence in the current form.
    Well, people come in all shapes and sizes, that's true. It's also true that opera singer tend to be heavy-built. That's just reality. But folks, you can't tell me a fat opera singer looking like Ursula from The Little Mermaid and wearing a Pierrot-like makeup isn't comedic. If they wanted to make a comedic character, then sure, I hate comedic characters, but whatever. But they made a genuinely tragic character and gave her a Laurel & Hardy appearance, that's just jarring.*

    *(that's not to say tragic character can't be ugly. The Mule in Asimov books, Richard III and so on. Just not ugly *like Cylostra*)
    Of course it is true, it's just that their representation is unnecessary. The thing with opera singers is simple, there aren't many of them so they will get a job no matter how they neglect themselves.

    There were many ways to make her look thematically good, bloated corpse body or a wispy one like Lady Olynder from AoS.
    Now you're just on the other end of the spectrum saying fat people harm your existence for just existing. Oh no, my pretty darling eyes. They burn because I can handle this dark grim world full of gore, horror, and deformed individuals because of the very nature of chaos and definitely not a swim suit magazine but this one overweight character? It harms my very soul.

    Laughable.
    I have never said such thing. We get only 4 characters, every one of them should matter. Also she is not overweight, she is morbidly obese. I guess she has died before it could kill her. Lucky one.
    Xenos7 said:

    Xenos7 said:

    SiWI said:

    Canuovea said:

    Nyxilis said:

    What is the most popular isn't always what is best. Popular vote was really gunning for Nakai, but he's a terrible option that requires a complete mangling of his lore and character to fit into a lord position.

    Never make a game, movie, book, or any creative work by vote. The loudest voices are seldom the most trust worthy and the majority can still be wrong.

    Sure 'developers know better'. That is how we have ended up with Ghorst, Tretch, Cylostra and TTT. Instead of giving us what we want they should give us what they think we should want and what would be the best for the game. Big Brother knows the best.

    It is a game. We should get what we want. People are simple creatures, we like big and bad things. Rule of cool is part of us. We are fine with 'complete mangling of his lore and character' as long as we are going to be able to drool and scream 'croc rage' in ecstasy.
    Oh stop complaining about Cylostra, 99% of total war Warhammer players didn't even know who Vangheist etc were.

    Also yeah remember GW approves everything CA does, it's their license they can pick what ever characters they want or even make them up.
    It doesn't matter. If they have made a ghost of let's say mutant sharkman then its reception would be much, much better.

    No, as far as I kno GW can't pick characters, they can deny picks though.
    Anyone who remembers Street Sharks will realize that a show about mutant sharks can be bad.

    But basically by your logic CA shouldn't have made a game about Warhammer and just one about a bunch of kaiju armies smashing the world. Because Godzilla games have always sold so well.

    Yes, SocJus spawned fat woman would win in popularity contest with a sharkman wraith. I see it.

    I'm sure you don't follow 'my logic' so please, don't do it in the future. There were many terrible kaiju games made with low budget. Now let's try game about obese woman on a crab. Now that would be a top seller. For sure.
    I dunno, Vampire Coast seems to have done pretty well to me.
    No thanks to her.
    prove it.
    Common sense.
    Xenos7 said:

    My problem with Cylostra is that it looks extremely comedic. She isn't actually comedic, as a character. She's even tragic, a bit of her lore is very good. But she just doesn't make sense as a Bretonnian opera singer. The over-the-top makeup, the fan, that weird combing. WTF. Why didn't they use the prophetess and the damsel as a base for a troubador girl chanter? She would have been a lot easier on the eye, be more compatible with Bretonnian quasi-medieval lore and represented nicely her tragic story. A beautiful, bitter syreen luring sailors to their death with her voice. I can't imagine someone being lured *by Cylostra* honestly.

    Paraphrase of what is said about 10th minute of this Rally Point



    "At this point they knew they wanted an ethereal lord, a caster for the faction and a female that does not come in the 'typical female shape' because people come in all shapes and sizes."

    SocJus taint, that is why we need to suffer her existence in the current form.
    Well, people come in all shapes and sizes, that's true. It's also true that opera singer tend to be heavy-built. That's just reality. But folks, you can't tell me a fat opera singer looking like Ursula from The Little Mermaid and wearing a Pierrot-like makeup isn't comedic. If they wanted to make a comedic character, then sure, I hate comedic characters, but whatever. But they made a genuinely tragic character and gave her a Laurel & Hardy appearance, that's just jarring.*

    *(that's not to say tragic character can't be ugly. The Mule in Asimov books, Richard III and so on. Just not ugly *like Cylostra*)
    Of course it is true, it's just that their representation is unnecessary. The thing with opera singers is simple, there aren't many of them so they will get a job no matter how they neglect themselves.
    I don't understand this. Opera singers are fat because it helps with their voice. See Luciano Pavarotti. It's just making her a opera singer that was a terrible choice. We don't even know why opera singing exist in Bretonnia.
    That's just a speculation. This article unfortunately uses term 'theory' but the most important part of it is that it has never been proved https://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/23/the_odd_body_opera_singers/ .

    I agree with second part.
    It seems to me way more probable than the idea that they just let themselves slide into obesity because they have a guaranteed job. I mean, high-energy theoretical physicists are equally rare but they aren't known to be fat.
    Sure but scientists are not artists. Higher intellectual standard and different environment play a big role.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 12,763Registered Users, Moderators
    Enough with this. The fatness of Opera Singers is completely off topic, and we're getting into disrespectful territory with some comments.

    Any further discussion of that type will result in warnings and points.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -The "Spam" flag is not a "disagree" flag. Have a care.
    -...No, no the "Abuse" flag isn't a "disagree" flag either!
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,330Registered Users
    I suspect that some of the posters in this thread would be shocked to find how competitive the fields they're talking about actually are.

    Back on topic: I've seen games that worked by the sort of "design by forum committee" process the thread seems to be advocating. In practice, they rarely worked out well. Obviously, developers should take into account the wishes of the community, but there's a balance to be struck.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 4,842Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    I suspect that some of the posters in this thread would be shocked to find how competitive the fields they're talking about actually are.

    Back on topic: I've seen games that worked by the sort of "design by forum committee" process the thread seems to be advocating. In practice, they rarely worked out well. Obviously, developers should take into account the wishes of the community, but there's a balance to be struck.

    HoMM7 was designed this way. During game's creation we could not only vote for units but capital themes and whole factions. One of the better entries in the series and if not for the low budget that has resulted in unfinished product it would be a true rival to HoMM3.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 4,864Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    I suspect that some of the posters in this thread would be shocked to find how competitive the fields they're talking about actually are.

    Back on topic: I've seen games that worked by the sort of "design by forum committee" process the thread seems to be advocating. In practice, they rarely worked out well. Obviously, developers should take into account the wishes of the community, but there's a balance to be struck.

    Amplitude games work very well.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,328Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Thread has little to do with game play, questions about game play, opinions and perspective on the game and game play, ideas to improve game play, issues and problems with game play nor any of the other usual reasons why the the thread needs to remain in the Warhammer Discussion forum.

    Focus of the conversation seems to be on the business of game development. Moved to TW Chat.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users
    dge1 said:

    Thread has little to do with game play, questions about game play, opinions and perspective on the game and game play, ideas to improve game play, issues and problems with game play nor any of the other usual reasons why the the thread needs to remain in the Warhammer Discussion forum.

    Focus of the conversation seems to be on the business of game development. Moved to TW Chat.

    One more for the rug.
    *Sweep*
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 15,390Registered Users
    A Donkey is a horse designed by committee.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,328Registered Users, Moderators, Knights

    A Donkey is a horse designed by committee.

    Thought that was a camel?
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,630Registered Users

    Draxynnic said:

    I suspect that some of the posters in this thread would be shocked to find how competitive the fields they're talking about actually are.

    Back on topic: I've seen games that worked by the sort of "design by forum committee" process the thread seems to be advocating. In practice, they rarely worked out well. Obviously, developers should take into account the wishes of the community, but there's a balance to be struck.

    HoMM7 was designed this way. During game's creation we could not only vote for units but capital themes and whole factions. One of the better entries in the series and if not for the low budget that has resulted in unfinished product it would be a true rival to HoMM3.
    HoMM7 bombed and design by committee was one of the main reasons for it. HoI3 had also incorporated tons of fan input at launch and was hilariously broken.

  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 4,842Registered Users
    edited April 13

    Draxynnic said:

    I suspect that some of the posters in this thread would be shocked to find how competitive the fields they're talking about actually are.

    Back on topic: I've seen games that worked by the sort of "design by forum committee" process the thread seems to be advocating. In practice, they rarely worked out well. Obviously, developers should take into account the wishes of the community, but there's a balance to be struck.

    HoMM7 was designed this way. During game's creation we could not only vote for units but capital themes and whole factions. One of the better entries in the series and if not for the low budget that has resulted in unfinished product it would be a true rival to HoMM3.
    HoMM7 bombed and design by committee was one of the main reasons for it. HoI3 had also incorporated tons of fan input at launch and was hilariously broken.
    Unfortunately fiscal performance not always goes in pair with quality. Design by commitee had nothing to do with it though.
    Post edited by Maedrethnir on
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 15,390Registered Users
    dge1 said:

    A Donkey is a horse designed by committee.

    Thought that was a camel?
    Hmmm, I swear I heard Donkey, but you're right too so says Google. Both fit though. Animals like horses but with fundamentally more utility at the cost of beauty and majesty or some such flowery language.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,630Registered Users
    edited April 13

    Draxynnic said:

    I suspect that some of the posters in this thread would be shocked to find how competitive the fields they're talking about actually are.

    Back on topic: I've seen games that worked by the sort of "design by forum committee" process the thread seems to be advocating. In practice, they rarely worked out well. Obviously, developers should take into account the wishes of the community, but there's a balance to be struck.

    HoMM7 was designed this way. During game's creation we could not only vote for units but capital themes and whole factions. One of the better entries in the series and if not for the low budget that has resulted in unfinished product it would be a true rival to HoMM3.
    HoMM7 bombed and design by committee was one of the main reasons for it. HoI3 had also incorporated tons of fan input at launch and was hilariously broken.
    Unfortunately fiscal performance not always goes in pair with quality. Design by commitee had nothing to do with it though.
    No, HoMM7 is simply not a good game and being designed with no overarching vision is a major part of that. Incidentally, HoMM3 was not developed with "community input".

  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 4,842Registered Users

    Draxynnic said:

    I suspect that some of the posters in this thread would be shocked to find how competitive the fields they're talking about actually are.

    Back on topic: I've seen games that worked by the sort of "design by forum committee" process the thread seems to be advocating. In practice, they rarely worked out well. Obviously, developers should take into account the wishes of the community, but there's a balance to be struck.

    HoMM7 was designed this way. During game's creation we could not only vote for units but capital themes and whole factions. One of the better entries in the series and if not for the low budget that has resulted in unfinished product it would be a true rival to HoMM3.
    HoMM7 bombed and design by committee was one of the main reasons for it. HoI3 had also incorporated tons of fan input at launch and was hilariously broken.
    Unfortunately fiscal performance not always goes in pair with quality. Design by commitee had nothing to do with it though.
    No, HoMM7 is simply not a good game and being designed with no overarching vision is a major part of that. Incidentally, HoMM3 was not developed with "community input".
    It is a good game, but extremely bugged. No, there is not even one good reason to think that community choices have negatively impacted HoMM7. Choices were simple http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=40588
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • MarkerMarker Posts: 759Registered Users

    A lesson in futility. If anything it will only give you the illusion that you have a say, while they've already planned everything out in the background.

    That is the truth alright, as long as people pay up, they will do as they please..
  • MarkerMarker Posts: 759Registered Users
    ajharris said:

    Since they are giving us downloadable content, for free, I don't think we should decide what gift they decide to give us.

    I Agree.
  • MarkerMarker Posts: 759Registered Users
    edited April 13
    Xenos7 said:

    My problem with Cylostra is that it looks extremely comedic. She isn't actually comedic, as a character. She's even tragic, a bit of her lore is very good. But she just doesn't make sense as a Bretonnian opera singer. The over-the-top makeup, the fan, that weird combing. WTF. Why didn't they use the prophetess and the damsel as a base for a troubador girl chanter? She would have been a lot easier on the eye, be more compatible with Bretonnian quasi-medieval lore and represented nicely her tragic story. A beautiful, bitter syreen luring sailors to their death with her voice. I can't imagine someone being lured *by Cylostra* honestly.

    Yeah, that kinda went over the top with that one, I bet its the least played Lord even though we needed a Legendary Ethereal Lord. This is an example of how important the Character and Lore is versus what the faction needs or what people want.
    Even though it was everything this game did not have and that faction was lacking, the execution is just wrong and the lore is full of questions and holes, it does not make sense, its almost impossible to play or RP a character like that, I don't feel it at all.
  • BiesliekBiesliek Junior Member Posts: 41Registered Users

    Draxynnic said:

    I suspect that some of the posters in this thread would be shocked to find how competitive the fields they're talking about actually are.

    Back on topic: I've seen games that worked by the sort of "design by forum committee" process the thread seems to be advocating. In practice, they rarely worked out well. Obviously, developers should take into account the wishes of the community, but there's a balance to be struck.

    HoMM7 was designed this way. During game's creation we could not only vote for units but capital themes and whole factions. One of the better entries in the series and if not for the low budget that has resulted in unfinished product it would be a true rival to HoMM3.
    HoMM7 bombed and design by committee was one of the main reasons for it. HoI3 had also incorporated tons of fan input at launch and was hilariously broken.
    Unfortunately fiscal performance not always goes in pair with quality. Design by commitee had nothing to do with it though.
    Gotta agree here, being able to vote for races and creatures was rather fun and definitely not the reason Heroes 7 bombed. It was simply badly designed in every aspect of the word, worse graphics than 6 (though thats not a big deal except they used models from that very game), horrible animations, terrible storytelling, barebones UI, and a ton of bugs to top it off. None of this is because the community was voting for what race they wanted to play.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 4,842Registered Users
    Biesliek said:

    Draxynnic said:

    I suspect that some of the posters in this thread would be shocked to find how competitive the fields they're talking about actually are.

    Back on topic: I've seen games that worked by the sort of "design by forum committee" process the thread seems to be advocating. In practice, they rarely worked out well. Obviously, developers should take into account the wishes of the community, but there's a balance to be struck.

    HoMM7 was designed this way. During game's creation we could not only vote for units but capital themes and whole factions. One of the better entries in the series and if not for the low budget that has resulted in unfinished product it would be a true rival to HoMM3.
    HoMM7 bombed and design by committee was one of the main reasons for it. HoI3 had also incorporated tons of fan input at launch and was hilariously broken.
    Unfortunately fiscal performance not always goes in pair with quality. Design by commitee had nothing to do with it though.
    Gotta agree here, being able to vote for races and creatures was rather fun and definitely not the reason Heroes 7 bombed. It was simply badly designed in every aspect of the word, worse graphics than 6 (though thats not a big deal except they used models from that very game), horrible animations, terrible storytelling, barebones UI, and a ton of bugs to top it off. None of this is because the community was voting for what race they wanted to play.
    Sad story of a great game with huge potential. Yes, too many units were remodels from 6. It was more like HoMM 6.5 than 7. Clearly Ubisoft cut them short and. They have tried to do the best with what they have got but it was not enough. CA too should create their own 'Shadow Council'.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • craven_kingcraven_king Posts: 34Registered Users
    No Gor Rok!
    TEAM NURGLE- I want Festus Leechlord
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