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Tiktaq'to Starting location should really be Hexoatl, imo.

ItharusItharus Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 13,972
Tiktaq'to is a Hexoatl character. He doesn't belong to Tlaqua.

IMO, he should have been a second lord option for "Hexoatl" so that you could simply start as him or Mazda in the campaign. Not every single lord needs to have their own faction - there are in fact many that shouldn't! For instance, Volkmar and Gelt are both quite clearly associated with Franz and should frankly remain as "The Empire" and start in Reikland like Franz. The White Dwarf? Part of Dwarfs and should stay that way.

I think in that same line of thinking, Tiktaq'to should really have just been a part of Hexoatl.

Besides... Tlaqua being physically moved -- into the desert, wtf -- is just straight up silly as heck. You guys could have at least added some trees to bring the jungle up with him...

Am I the only one who feels this way?

At the very least you could have just put a made up city down there and given him a different factional name so as to not poo on Tlaqua and make one raise an eyebrow that one of Hexoatl's favorite sons is randomly attached to another major power. You did it for Kroq, after all.
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  • TombThingsTombThings Registered Users Posts: 130
    Game balance, replayability, unique starting positions > lore
  • PLHenryPLHenry Registered Users Posts: 1,561
    I agree. If a character is associated with a location, they should start there. I hate the thought of Volkmar and Gelt getting moved to other locations, as it makes most sense to start them in Altdorf.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,972

    Game balance, replayability, unique starting positions > lore

    I disagree.

    If you were correct, then why bother licensing Warhammer at all? A big draw is the lore. CA may as well have just created their own fantasy world if lore wasn't important.
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 1,935
    Tiktaq'to serves Lord mazdamundi, if lord mazdamundi tells him to go somewhere he isn't gone argue.
  • TombThingsTombThings Registered Users Posts: 130
    Itharus said:

    Game balance, replayability, unique starting positions > lore

    I disagree.

    If you were correct, then why bother licensing Warhammer at all? A big draw is the lore. CA may as well have just created their own fantasy world if lore wasn't important.
    You're taking a pretty nuanced spectrum and making it black and white. I'm not advocating for massive swings of lore breaking junk or brand new IP created by CA. But I think creating a small story for why your LL is not where they typically are in the Warhammer books is perfectly reasonable.

    Should CA create a brand new faction never before mentioned by GW? Absolutely not? Should CA diversify starting positions - sometimes moving Lords to new locations? Seems fine.
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 2,045
    I agree on Tlaqua in ME but honestly do not care much about TTT starting position in general.
  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 5,108
    I agree with this, Tiktaq'to is famous for defending Hexoatl above all else. He and his Terradon Riders are basically homeland security for the city. I can head canon that he got a promotion however.

    They really should have a balance between every Lord having a faction and factions with multiple lords. Take High Elves for example, both Imrik and Eltharion should get their own factions if they come; Caradryan and Sea Lord Aislinn however should be part of Lothern by default however. There's multiple examples in history of famous generals fighting for the same government at the same time, this is of course, true for Warhammer Fantasy as well.
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    Me when I see a LL character implemented as a LH.

    Bring naval battles to Warhammer CA!

  • nathanc070nathanc070 Member Registered Users Posts: 98
    No, it shouldn't.

    Sometimes replayability and unique start positions are more important. It would also make Hexoatl campaign easier.
    I think its great they are trying to keep areas as diverse as possible, yes the Lore is a framework to follow but it isn't mandatory and minor lords like this I feel its fine to help balance out the game! That area was boring beyond Sin, the Lizards help spice it up
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,577
    edited April 2019
    Tlaqua wouldn't be populated at all as far as lore goes. So sending a force to reclaim it sounds about right for what LM occasionally do.

    So it is within the realm of possibilities, especially since Slann send their forces across the globe.

    And why do you not complain about Tehenhauin's start in ME when Xlanhuapec has nothing to do with him and is a well established LM Temple city?

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • RonNLRonNL Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 599
    edited April 2019

    Game balance, replayability, unique starting positions > lore

    This, the same argument could be used for Kroq gar, teclis and alith anar. But replayability is way more important then lore. If you want the lore to be accurate in game then Chaos waves should be endless, and all human LL to be available for only a few turns since they are getting old (same goes for Skaven since to only get 5-10 years old).
    Post edited by RonNL on
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 5,522
    When it comes to story events that even Games Workshop would throw the LM show up. So you have standard haunts like Lustria, but if they needed to go somewhere like Albion, Southlands, or where ever they need to go.

    The Vortex is one of the single most important things to the lizardmen. They are quite aware of it, and they absolutely know its importance. In fact, they strengthen it without the elves knowing about it.

    So the Vortex is threatened? You know bloody well they'd send their armies with absolute prejudice, speed, and resources to gut, smash, burn, chew, rip, tear, and kill anything that got in the way wherever it be.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,896
    Lore vs gameplay isn't black and white:

    Estalian Angels - No

    Unique starting position - Yes
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 1,935
    Also what is the lore argument against ttt not being in hexoatl?

    You remember that lord mazdamundi is in charge of that city and can send armies a few continents over with ease.

    And seeing as he already sent out his right hand man, he will need to fall back on ttt since he doesn't have anyone else.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,744
    Itharus said:

    Game balance, replayability, unique starting positions > lore

    I disagree.

    If you were correct, then why bother licensing Warhammer at all? A big draw is the lore. CA may as well have just created their own fantasy world if lore wasn't important.
    Yes, moving a lord is the same thing as throwing out all lore completely.
    SiWI: "no they just hate you and I don't blame them."
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,972
    Crossil said:

    Tlaqua wouldn't be populated at all as far as lore goes. So sending a force to reclaim it sounds about right for what LM occasionally do.

    So it is within the realm of possibilities, especially since Slann send their forces across the globe.

    And why do you not complain about Tehenhauin's start in ME when Xlanhuapec has nothing to do with him and is a well established LM Temple city?

    Cuz his faction is just "Cult of Sotek", it's not Xlanhuapec. Small thing but it matters.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,577
    edited April 2019
    Itharus said:

    Crossil said:

    Tlaqua wouldn't be populated at all as far as lore goes. So sending a force to reclaim it sounds about right for what LM occasionally do.

    So it is within the realm of possibilities, especially since Slann send their forces across the globe.

    And why do you not complain about Tehenhauin's start in ME when Xlanhuapec has nothing to do with him and is a well established LM Temple city?

    Cuz his faction is just "Cult of Sotek", it's not Xlanhuapec. Small thing but it matters.
    It actually makes it worse because Xlanhuapec should be separate from Cult of Sotek. Tlaqua would be reestablished by TTT's force, Tehenhauin somehow took over a Temple city.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,480
    Crossil said:

    Itharus said:

    Crossil said:

    Tlaqua wouldn't be populated at all as far as lore goes. So sending a force to reclaim it sounds about right for what LM occasionally do.

    So it is within the realm of possibilities, especially since Slann send their forces across the globe.

    And why do you not complain about Tehenhauin's start in ME when Xlanhuapec has nothing to do with him and is a well established LM Temple city?

    Cuz his faction is just "Cult of Sotek", it's not Xlanhuapec. Small thing but it matters.
    It actually makes it worse because Xlanhuapec should be separate from Cult of Sotek. Tlaqua would be reestablished by TTT's force, Tehenhauin somehow took over a Temple city.
    Hah. That is funny.

    Kroq-Gar should also start in Hexoatl. We buy the "sent elsewhere by Mazda" thing for him, so why could we not have TTT doing the same? Seems to me that makes plenty of sense.
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  • ptavangarptavangar Registered Users Posts: 1,172
    I think as long as CA explains it and gives a loreful reason for a particular character being away from home, then its okay. They did explain why TTT is in Tlaqua so I'm good. BUT I would prefer he be in Lustria for ME. Although, the geomantic web isn't specific to the vortex plotline so I guess its okay.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,406
    Yes CA had really drop the ball with Tiktaq'to, he should start in Hexoatl and not in a desert.
  • John_KimbleJohn_Kimble Registered Users Posts: 1,206
    I do share your feeling in some aspects.
    Vortex-wise I absolutely dont mind his start, thats where i was expecting either the FLC or the DLC to start.
    Lorewise, Vortex has it's own very clear narrative, and i can see Mazdamundi ordering TTT to cross the Ocean with Kroq to take control of the abandoned temple cities in the Southlands to recover the Geomantic Web, while he himself stays behind to preside Hexoatl.

    Mortal Empires, however, where there is no narrative whatsoever, is a whole different deal for me. And yes, honestly his start bothers a lot, because its feels "desperate" and extremely forced, and done in a very poor manner.

    I would have been totally fine with it if the addition of Tlaqua would have meant addition of new terrain and even a small southwards expansion of the map to include some of the jungle. Actually this would have been incredibly awesome, albeit unlikely i know.
    I would have been OK if it meant, at least, that within the constraints of the map, the Gulf of Medes would be finally opened to the sea as CA had to remodel that area to add Tlaqua that's in the south.

    Instead, what we have is by far the absolute worst way CA could have added that new region to the map. I'm a sucker for WH lore and geography, so i understand many don't care at all, but to me they way they simply displaced and transfered temple cities across the continent is extremely annoying and disappointing.
    I'm 100% fine with CA taking some liberties with the lore when it comes to reshaping continents, placing settlements, fixing distances. Gameplay and balance is obviously a thing and i have no problem with that at all.
    But this is on a whole different level, and i'm sayin this as someone who absolutely loves everything we got with this update. Tlaqua and Cuexotl are abandoned temple cities that reside in the wild and unexplored jungles of the Southlands (quick look: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/4/43/Map_Southlands_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161006174002). Now, they have been moved across the continent, out of the jungles, across the sea and dropped right in the middle of the deserts of Araby. Tlaqua is now basically at the base of the Atalan Mountain range, in the heart of the desert, and right next to Vulture Mountain.

    AT LEAST, please, shift the Land of Dervishes to the left, and place the Western Jungles between the Gulf of Medes and the Heart of the Jungle. And, you know, add actual jungle to the province...

    As it is, i'd much prefer they just made a new province and new settlements. Seeing Tlaqua and Cuexotl there just really annoys me, and just for this reason i'll probably never start as TTT in ME.

    And i agree with the LL startpos issue. I kind of miss having multiple LL in the same faction, unlockable by doing some sweet quest. As is, i'm always sending heroes across the world just to confederate with the other LL before they get wiped out. I wouldn't mind some few exceptions in ME, with multiple heroes belonging to the same faction.

  • KandennKandenn Registered Users Posts: 504
    I agree with the OP.

    The vortex map has it own narrative so tlaqua is ok. However in ME, Hexoatl would have been far better than... this.
  • gunner8521gunner8521 Registered Users Posts: 488
    I think the ME campaign could be modified to fit lore better if CA don't want to add different starts.

    since TTT and Kroc Gar have ties to Hexoatl, They and reversely Mazdamudi should have a diplomantic bonus and contact with each other at the start of the campaign for easy confederating easily just like Malekith and Morathi. you could then do the campaign with TTT and Kroc Gar in Lustria.
  • BoombastekBoombastek Registered Users Posts: 2,132
    Crossil said:

    Itharus said:

    Crossil said:

    Tlaqua wouldn't be populated at all as far as lore goes. So sending a force to reclaim it sounds about right for what LM occasionally do.

    So it is within the realm of possibilities, especially since Slann send their forces across the globe.

    And why do you not complain about Tehenhauin's start in ME when Xlanhuapec has nothing to do with him and is a well established LM Temple city?

    Cuz his faction is just "Cult of Sotek", it's not Xlanhuapec. Small thing but it matters.
    It actually makes it worse because Xlanhuapec should be separate from Cult of Sotek. Tlaqua would be reestablished by TTT's force, Tehenhauin somehow took over a Temple city.
    In his opening Advisor said. Xlanhuapec slanns choosed Ten in one to help them vs Skaven.
  • harngersteinharngerstein Registered Users Posts: 860
    This thread makes Cylostra Direfin, the ghost of identity politics, sad...
  • SaurianDruidSaurianDruid Registered Users Posts: 1,601
    It is too late to make this argument. Kroq-Gar set a precedent. The in-game story is that Mazdamundi sent his best warriors across the sea to aid the Southlands Lizardmen. Tiktaq'to and Kroq-Gar are his greatest champions. If he needs something done these are the two he is most likely to rely on, and neither are going to question his orders.

    Ultimately this is a problem that Games Workshop caused. They never really fleshed out the Southlands Lizardmen. They didn't give them any special characters to work with. So now CA has to find a way to populate the Southlands with Lizardmen characters with big enough names to get people excited.

    CA can't just leave the Southlands controlled by AI Lizardmen, nor can they squeeze all the Lizardmen characters into Lustria if they don't want the Lizardmen campaign to mostly revolve around killing other Lizardmen. Thus their only option is to take some Lustrian characters and put them in the Southlands to ensure a more diverse range of start locations. Tiktaq'to and Kroq-Gar just have the easiest time explaining why they are over there and not in their home city. Their boss, who already represents Hexoatl, sent them there to fulfill the Great Plan.
  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 2,065
    edited April 2019

    Game balance, replayability, unique starting positions > lore

    I agree about this. I like idea to add unique starting positions for every legendary lords. If Tiktaq'to will be in Hexoatl faction, He will become another Helman Ghorst.
    We just need move Tlaqua to east of Sudenburg.
    Post edited by Labria on
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