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The Problem with Game One Content

Michael4537Michael4537 Posts: 2,136Registered Users
This was typed on a phone, so sorry in advance for any weird spelling/grammar errors.

So I'd say we have a problem. There are only Lord Packs remaining for Warhammer II, which means there's a reasonably good chance that we could see some lord packs for the game one races. The catch is that game one is no longer supported and is very different from game two. If CA were to make new DLC for game one that is also compatible with game two, they would have several options: backport game two to game one so the two are basically the same version, release two different builds of the same DLC for the separate games, or release a game one DLC that can ONLY be used in game two. None of these are great option. The first two would require a pretty significant amount of time and effort on CA's part, and the last one would be an especially bad option as it is simply bad business practice.

To give an example for that third option, say they released a Greenskin DLC for game two at a price of $6.00. In this case, if I only wanted to play Greenskins with the new content and wasn't interested in the game two content, I would have to buy a $60.00 game that I didn't just to play $6.00 content (assuming I already had game one). Needless to say, this is the worst option for the consumer, and CA would instantly lose at least my support and respect.

So that leaves the first two options. Would CA backport, or would they make two different content versions? Like I said before, neither is a great option from a business perspective, as both would require more time, effort, and money than a regular DLC.

Personally, I think that backporting and updating game one would be the best in the long run, as it would resolve the other options and make it much easier to create content for game one in the future. It would add the game two factions to game one (mainly Skaven) and allow access to the game one map for many of the factions (and I honestly hardly interact with the new world factions when playing the old world factions in ME anyway).

And I don't really see any other way to add new game one stuff to game two aside from these three options. Now I'm no coder or programmer, so I might be missing something obvious, but these are some serious barriers to new game one content that aren't easily resolved. Anyway, eager to hear other people's thoughts because I'm rather skeptical that anything other that FLC will be added for the game one factions.
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Comments

  • endurendur Posts: 3,242Registered Users
    The Amethyst wizard is a flc of a game 1 race that is game 2 only FLC.

    I think that's what we're going to see. FLCs of game 1 races. I don't think we'll see any DLCs of game 1 races during game 2. I think all the DLCs will be game 2 races.

    Because of the compatibility and business reasons you mention above, I think this is what they will do. I don't expect any updates to game 1, I think all updates will be to game 2.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 5,458Registered Users
    edited May 2019
    endur said:

    The Amethyst wizard is a flc of a game 1 race that is game 2 only FLC.

    I think that's what we're going to see. FLCs of game 1 races. I don't think we'll see any DLCs of game 1 races during game 2. I think all the DLCs will be game 2 races.

    Because of the compatibility and business reasons you mention above, I think this is what they will do. I don't expect any updates to game 1, I think all updates will be to game 2.

    Hmmmm. Maybe the following DLCs will have game 1 LLs as the FLC LLs. For Greenskins and Empire I think, alongside the rework.

    This would be much easier to hypothesize if they bothered to update the FLC array.....ah, I guess they just don't care about it anymore for whatever reason.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • Grimgor_the_CAkeGrimgor_the_CAke Posts: 1,702Registered Users
    Any updates to Game 1 means less updates to Game 2 for sure. Most people wish the game moving forward with more content (such as 3 dlc instead of 2, some more notable characters as legendary lord / hero etc.). Going back and forth serves no end. It is a waste of time of the developers and players who wish and wait for new content. Imagine if Game 3 updates come, do they have to update 3 games for any Chao units updates? What about patches, tweaks, bugs, mods, tutorials, localizations, etc.? (it is like unleash hell esp. if the updates break mod which no one updates any more / the updates break save games)
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 5,458Registered Users

    Any updates to Game 1 means less updates to Game 2 for sure. Most people wish the game moving forward with more content (such as 3 dlc instead of 2, some more notable characters as legendary lord / hero etc.). Going back and forth serves no end. It is a waste of time of the developers and players who wish and wait for new content. Imagine if Game 3 updates come, do they have to update 3 games for any Chao units updates? What about patches, tweaks, bugs, mods, tutorials, localizations, etc.? (it is like unleash hell esp. if the updates break mod which no one updates any more / the updates break save games)

    Even now when game 1 has been unupdated for years some 5-10% of TWW players still play it. I would argue if it was updated and had something like Skaven uprising or TK and DE invasions from south and west respectively(and Ogres in the east come game 3) the game 1 campaign would be a valid campaign option even alongside ME.

    I would say the reason they don't work those mods is because they are now doing those exact mods in game 2. If they remade game 1 in game 2 engine from the ME map it would be simply updating the mods of game 2 to work on the newly added campaign so it would sooner offer more options.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Posts: 392Registered Users

    This was typed on a phone, so sorry in advance for any weird spelling/grammar errors.

    So I'd say we have a problem. There are only Lord Packs remaining for Warhammer II, which means there's a reasonably good chance that we could see some lord packs for the game one races. The catch is that game one is no longer supported and is very different from game two. If CA were to make new DLC for game one that is also compatible with game two, they would have several options: backport game two to game one so the two are basically the same version, release two different builds of the same DLC for the separate games, or release a game one DLC that can ONLY be used in game two. None of these are great option. The first two would require a pretty significant amount of time and effort on CA's part, and the last one would be an especially bad option as it is simply bad business practice.

    To give an example for that third option, say they released a Greenskin DLC for game two at a price of $6.00. In this case, if I only wanted to play Greenskins with the new content and wasn't interested in the game two content, I would have to buy a $60.00 game that I didn't just to play $6.00 content (assuming I already had game one). Needless to say, this is the worst option for the consumer, and CA would instantly lose at least my support and respect.

    So that leaves the first two options. Would CA backport, or would they make two different content versions? Like I said before, neither is a great option from a business perspective, as both would require more time, effort, and money than a regular DLC.

    Personally, I think that backporting and updating game one would be the best in the long run, as it would resolve the other options and make it much easier to create content for game one in the future. It would add the game two factions to game one (mainly Skaven) and allow access to the game one map for many of the factions (and I honestly hardly interact with the new world factions when playing the old world factions in ME anyway).

    And I don't really see any other way to add new game one stuff to game two aside from these three options. Now I'm no coder or programmer, so I might be missing something obvious, but these are some serious barriers to new game one content that aren't easily resolved. Anyway, eager to hear other people's thoughts because I'm rather skeptical that anything other that FLC will be added for the game one factions.

    Dude shut up, the Warhammer series is on sale. Stop being cheap and just buy the newer titles. People like you complaining about how CA chose to implement new dlc is the reason we get so little of it. D
  • Grimgor_the_CAkeGrimgor_the_CAke Posts: 1,702Registered Users
    @Crossil

    If it is that easy as we talk, I think they already did it. Anyhow, I myself do not think it is in my interest to ask for it although I did go back to play Game 1 when the Mortal Empires were in bad state and I only ended up uninstalling Game 1 a few months ago. This is my opinion.
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Posts: 3,087Registered Users
    seeing ash how the norsca wreck up proved that the code bases of WH1 and 2 are very different I doubt CA is going to port stuff back to game 1

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • Bojan0302Bojan0302 Posts: 17Registered Users
    DLC’s for the old world races in ME? Hell yeah, if they released 10 of them I would buy them all. Empire, Greenskins, you name it. WH1 was on 75% off sale more times than I can remember including rn. Stop holding us hostage to people that still don’t own both games. Let CA release whatever they want to release, if you don’t like it don’t buy if, a lot of us surely will. Praise Sigmar!
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Posts: 2,136Registered Users
    BRiiTASH2 said:

    This was typed on a phone, so sorry in advance for any weird spelling/grammar errors.

    So I'd say we have a problem. There are only Lord Packs remaining for Warhammer II, which means there's a reasonably good chance that we could see some lord packs for the game one races. The catch is that game one is no longer supported and is very different from game two. If CA were to make new DLC for game one that is also compatible with game two, they would have several options: backport game two to game one so the two are basically the same version, release two different builds of the same DLC for the separate games, or release a game one DLC that can ONLY be used in game two. None of these are great option. The first two would require a pretty significant amount of time and effort on CA's part, and the last one would be an especially bad option as it is simply bad business practice.

    To give an example for that third option, say they released a Greenskin DLC for game two at a price of $6.00. In this case, if I only wanted to play Greenskins with the new content and wasn't interested in the game two content, I would have to buy a $60.00 game that I didn't just to play $6.00 content (assuming I already had game one). Needless to say, this is the worst option for the consumer, and CA would instantly lose at least my support and respect.

    So that leaves the first two options. Would CA backport, or would they make two different content versions? Like I said before, neither is a great option from a business perspective, as both would require more time, effort, and money than a regular DLC.

    Personally, I think that backporting and updating game one would be the best in the long run, as it would resolve the other options and make it much easier to create content for game one in the future. It would add the game two factions to game one (mainly Skaven) and allow access to the game one map for many of the factions (and I honestly hardly interact with the new world factions when playing the old world factions in ME anyway).

    And I don't really see any other way to add new game one stuff to game two aside from these three options. Now I'm no coder or programmer, so I might be missing something obvious, but these are some serious barriers to new game one content that aren't easily resolved. Anyway, eager to hear other people's thoughts because I'm rather skeptical that anything other that FLC will be added for the game one factions.

    Dude shut up, the Warhammer series is on sale. Stop being cheap and just buy the newer titles. People like you complaining about how CA chose to implement new dlc is the reason we get so little of it. D
    I have both games and all DLC. (Save for the blood pack.) The theoretical example is exactly that; a theoretical example. It's more a matter of principle than my actually situation, because my favorite race (Lizardmen) is game two and I like to play all the races. That's not the case for everyone, however, and if I was in a position where I had to buy a separate, full-priced game that I don't want just to buy relatively cheap DLC, I would be **** and it's not an appropriate policy for publishers. Buying other games should not be a requirement to access DLC for a game I already own. I do want new content for game one, but I'm not willing to sacrifice whatever standards I hold about the ethics of producers to get it.
  • BlaeysBlaeys Junior Member Posts: 824Registered Users
    In my opinion, they need to treat Mortal Empires as a Game 2 game mode independent of game 1. Open it up to everyone that owns game 2, but only give access to the races and factions the player has paid for. Game one then becomes a bundled lord pack that includes the base factions.

    With that model, they could then justify not only adding new game one lords (that would playable separate from what you buy with game one), but they would also probably see renewed sales for the game one DLCs, all of which would become standalone DLC for either game.

    And it would set a precedent that works for game 3 as well.

    I own all content (TW WH are auto preorders for me), so this wouldn't affect me, but it would provide a business model that doesn't discourage revisiting older factions, which I agree is something of an issue right now.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Posts: 3,398Registered Users

    BRiiTASH2 said:

    This was typed on a phone, so sorry in advance for any weird spelling/grammar errors.

    So I'd say we have a problem. There are only Lord Packs remaining for Warhammer II, which means there's a reasonably good chance that we could see some lord packs for the game one races. The catch is that game one is no longer supported and is very different from game two. If CA were to make new DLC for game one that is also compatible with game two, they would have several options: backport game two to game one so the two are basically the same version, release two different builds of the same DLC for the separate games, or release a game one DLC that can ONLY be used in game two. None of these are great option. The first two would require a pretty significant amount of time and effort on CA's part, and the last one would be an especially bad option as it is simply bad business practice.

    To give an example for that third option, say they released a Greenskin DLC for game two at a price of $6.00. In this case, if I only wanted to play Greenskins with the new content and wasn't interested in the game two content, I would have to buy a $60.00 game that I didn't just to play $6.00 content (assuming I already had game one). Needless to say, this is the worst option for the consumer, and CA would instantly lose at least my support and respect.

    So that leaves the first two options. Would CA backport, or would they make two different content versions? Like I said before, neither is a great option from a business perspective, as both would require more time, effort, and money than a regular DLC.

    Personally, I think that backporting and updating game one would be the best in the long run, as it would resolve the other options and make it much easier to create content for game one in the future. It would add the game two factions to game one (mainly Skaven) and allow access to the game one map for many of the factions (and I honestly hardly interact with the new world factions when playing the old world factions in ME anyway).

    And I don't really see any other way to add new game one stuff to game two aside from these three options. Now I'm no coder or programmer, so I might be missing something obvious, but these are some serious barriers to new game one content that aren't easily resolved. Anyway, eager to hear other people's thoughts because I'm rather skeptical that anything other that FLC will be added for the game one factions.

    Dude shut up, the Warhammer series is on sale. Stop being cheap and just buy the newer titles. People like you complaining about how CA chose to implement new dlc is the reason we get so little of it. D
    I have both games and all DLC. (Save for the blood pack.) The theoretical example is exactly that; a theoretical example. It's more a matter of principle than my actually situation, because my favorite race (Lizardmen) is game two and I like to play all the races. That's not the case for everyone, however, and if I was in a position where I had to buy a separate, full-priced game that I don't want just to buy relatively cheap DLC, I would be **** and it's not an appropriate policy for publishers. Buying other games should not be a requirement to access DLC for a game I already own. I do want new content for game one, but I'm not willing to sacrifice whatever standards I hold about the ethics of producers to get it.
    I don't think they'll do it that way though. Think you would be able to access the new OW LL in the Vortex, just without some game 1 units (Arachnorok is the example I use) and LLs. This allows a fair amount of access to game 2 only people, and would also act as marketing for game 1, as would allow people a good taster of other races, which is also good for CA.
  • Rolf1989Rolf1989 Posts: 397Registered Users
    Goatforce said:

    BRiiTASH2 said:

    This was typed on a phone, so sorry in advance for any weird spelling/grammar errors.

    So I'd say we have a problem. There are only Lord Packs remaining for Warhammer II, which means there's a reasonably good chance that we could see some lord packs for the game one races. The catch is that game one is no longer supported and is very different from game two. If CA were to make new DLC for game one that is also compatible with game two, they would have several options: backport game two to game one so the two are basically the same version, release two different builds of the same DLC for the separate games, or release a game one DLC that can ONLY be used in game two. None of these are great option. The first two would require a pretty significant amount of time and effort on CA's part, and the last one would be an especially bad option as it is simply bad business practice.

    To give an example for that third option, say they released a Greenskin DLC for game two at a price of $6.00. In this case, if I only wanted to play Greenskins with the new content and wasn't interested in the game two content, I would have to buy a $60.00 game that I didn't just to play $6.00 content (assuming I already had game one). Needless to say, this is the worst option for the consumer, and CA would instantly lose at least my support and respect.

    So that leaves the first two options. Would CA backport, or would they make two different content versions? Like I said before, neither is a great option from a business perspective, as both would require more time, effort, and money than a regular DLC.

    Personally, I think that backporting and updating game one would be the best in the long run, as it would resolve the other options and make it much easier to create content for game one in the future. It would add the game two factions to game one (mainly Skaven) and allow access to the game one map for many of the factions (and I honestly hardly interact with the new world factions when playing the old world factions in ME anyway).

    And I don't really see any other way to add new game one stuff to game two aside from these three options. Now I'm no coder or programmer, so I might be missing something obvious, but these are some serious barriers to new game one content that aren't easily resolved. Anyway, eager to hear other people's thoughts because I'm rather skeptical that anything other that FLC will be added for the game one factions.

    Dude shut up, the Warhammer series is on sale. Stop being cheap and just buy the newer titles. People like you complaining about how CA chose to implement new dlc is the reason we get so little of it. D
    I have both games and all DLC. (Save for the blood pack.) The theoretical example is exactly that; a theoretical example. It's more a matter of principle than my actually situation, because my favorite race (Lizardmen) is game two and I like to play all the races. That's not the case for everyone, however, and if I was in a position where I had to buy a separate, full-priced game that I don't want just to buy relatively cheap DLC, I would be **** and it's not an appropriate policy for publishers. Buying other games should not be a requirement to access DLC for a game I already own. I do want new content for game one, but I'm not willing to sacrifice whatever standards I hold about the ethics of producers to get it.
    I don't think they'll do it that way though. Think you would be able to access the new OW LL in the Vortex, just without some game 1 units (Arachnorok is the example I use) and LLs. This allows a fair amount of access to game 2 only people, and would also act as marketing for game 1, as would allow people a good taster of other races, which is also good for CA.
    Yes, it seems like the most logical solution. But I do not see a reason to limit the units.
    Just curious, could it create a backlash of some kind? I saw some people complaining that people who didn't own Grim and the Grave got access to Strigoi Lord when VC was updated. It was ofc ridiculous and it was only a couple of people, but I'm very invested in TWW and just want them to add as much content as possible, so I might have a skevered view of what's fair business practice.
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Posts: 2,136Registered Users
    Goatforce said:

    BRiiTASH2 said:

    This was typed on a phone, so sorry in advance for any weird spelling/grammar errors.

    So I'd say we have a problem. There are only Lord Packs remaining for Warhammer II, which means there's a reasonably good chance that we could see some lord packs for the game one races. The catch is that game one is no longer supported and is very different from game two. If CA were to make new DLC for game one that is also compatible with game two, they would have several options: backport game two to game one so the two are basically the same version, release two different builds of the same DLC for the separate games, or release a game one DLC that can ONLY be used in game two. None of these are great option. The first two would require a pretty significant amount of time and effort on CA's part, and the last one would be an especially bad option as it is simply bad business practice.

    To give an example for that third option, say they released a Greenskin DLC for game two at a price of $6.00. In this case, if I only wanted to play Greenskins with the new content and wasn't interested in the game two content, I would have to buy a $60.00 game that I didn't just to play $6.00 content (assuming I already had game one). Needless to say, this is the worst option for the consumer, and CA would instantly lose at least my support and respect.

    So that leaves the first two options. Would CA backport, or would they make two different content versions? Like I said before, neither is a great option from a business perspective, as both would require more time, effort, and money than a regular DLC.

    Personally, I think that backporting and updating game one would be the best in the long run, as it would resolve the other options and make it much easier to create content for game one in the future. It would add the game two factions to game one (mainly Skaven) and allow access to the game one map for many of the factions (and I honestly hardly interact with the new world factions when playing the old world factions in ME anyway).

    And I don't really see any other way to add new game one stuff to game two aside from these three options. Now I'm no coder or programmer, so I might be missing something obvious, but these are some serious barriers to new game one content that aren't easily resolved. Anyway, eager to hear other people's thoughts because I'm rather skeptical that anything other that FLC will be added for the game one factions.

    Dude shut up, the Warhammer series is on sale. Stop being cheap and just buy the newer titles. People like you complaining about how CA chose to implement new dlc is the reason we get so little of it. D
    I have both games and all DLC. (Save for the blood pack.) The theoretical example is exactly that; a theoretical example. It's more a matter of principle than my actually situation, because my favorite race (Lizardmen) is game two and I like to play all the races. That's not the case for everyone, however, and if I was in a position where I had to buy a separate, full-priced game that I don't want just to buy relatively cheap DLC, I would be **** and it's not an appropriate policy for publishers. Buying other games should not be a requirement to access DLC for a game I already own. I do want new content for game one, but I'm not willing to sacrifice whatever standards I hold about the ethics of producers to get it.
    I don't think they'll do it that way though. Think you would be able to access the new OW LL in the Vortex, just without some game 1 units (Arachnorok is the example I use) and LLs. This allows a fair amount of access to game 2 only people, and would also act as marketing for game 1, as would allow people a good taster of other races, which is also good for CA.
    That makes sense. Like I said, I may have missed an implementation method and that's why I brought it up here. I'd still rather they bring game one up to snuff, but that is a good option I hadn't thought of.
    But then again, why bother buying game one if I can get all the units for cheaper DLC? Or would they price each in at $15 to account for all the units in the base of game one? In which case if I had already bought game one then I'd be paying for a lot of the DLC content twice since I would already have those already-existing units. Or a compromise would be to include only some units from the base game.
    I dunno. Lots of things to think about.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 3,353Registered Users
    Unless they just magically pulled a whole bunch of new buyers to the Total War series out of thin air the majority of game 2 players own game 1. They also have every reason to encourage people to finally buy into game 1. Not like sales don't happen often enough. Game one is 15 bucks right now Steam. Basically a 5 race DLC and that's all game 1 is now. DLC for game 2, and eventually 2 for 3.
  • Rolf1989Rolf1989 Posts: 397Registered Users

    Goatforce said:

    BRiiTASH2 said:

    This was typed on a phone, so sorry in advance for any weird spelling/grammar errors.

    So I'd say we have a problem. There are only Lord Packs remaining for Warhammer II, which means there's a reasonably good chance that we could see some lord packs for the game one races. The catch is that game one is no longer supported and is very different from game two. If CA were to make new DLC for game one that is also compatible with game two, they would have several options: backport game two to game one so the two are basically the same version, release two different builds of the same DLC for the separate games, or release a game one DLC that can ONLY be used in game two. None of these are great option. The first two would require a pretty significant amount of time and effort on CA's part, and the last one would be an especially bad option as it is simply bad business practice.

    To give an example for that third option, say they released a Greenskin DLC for game two at a price of $6.00. In this case, if I only wanted to play Greenskins with the new content and wasn't interested in the game two content, I would have to buy a $60.00 game that I didn't just to play $6.00 content (assuming I already had game one). Needless to say, this is the worst option for the consumer, and CA would instantly lose at least my support and respect.

    So that leaves the first two options. Would CA backport, or would they make two different content versions? Like I said before, neither is a great option from a business perspective, as both would require more time, effort, and money than a regular DLC.

    Personally, I think that backporting and updating game one would be the best in the long run, as it would resolve the other options and make it much easier to create content for game one in the future. It would add the game two factions to game one (mainly Skaven) and allow access to the game one map for many of the factions (and I honestly hardly interact with the new world factions when playing the old world factions in ME anyway).

    And I don't really see any other way to add new game one stuff to game two aside from these three options. Now I'm no coder or programmer, so I might be missing something obvious, but these are some serious barriers to new game one content that aren't easily resolved. Anyway, eager to hear other people's thoughts because I'm rather skeptical that anything other that FLC will be added for the game one factions.

    Dude shut up, the Warhammer series is on sale. Stop being cheap and just buy the newer titles. People like you complaining about how CA chose to implement new dlc is the reason we get so little of it. D
    I have both games and all DLC. (Save for the blood pack.) The theoretical example is exactly that; a theoretical example. It's more a matter of principle than my actually situation, because my favorite race (Lizardmen) is game two and I like to play all the races. That's not the case for everyone, however, and if I was in a position where I had to buy a separate, full-priced game that I don't want just to buy relatively cheap DLC, I would be **** and it's not an appropriate policy for publishers. Buying other games should not be a requirement to access DLC for a game I already own. I do want new content for game one, but I'm not willing to sacrifice whatever standards I hold about the ethics of producers to get it.
    I don't think they'll do it that way though. Think you would be able to access the new OW LL in the Vortex, just without some game 1 units (Arachnorok is the example I use) and LLs. This allows a fair amount of access to game 2 only people, and would also act as marketing for game 1, as would allow people a good taster of other races, which is also good for CA.
    That makes sense. Like I said, I may have missed an implementation method and that's why I brought it up here. I'd still rather they bring game one up to snuff, but that is a good option I hadn't thought of.
    But then again, why bother buying game one if I can get all the units for cheaper DLC? Or would they price each in at $15 to account for all the units in the base of game one? In which case if I had already bought game one then I'd be paying for a lot of the DLC content twice since I would already have those already-existing units. Or a compromise would be to include only some units from the base game.
    I dunno. Lots of things to think about.
    As somebody said you can pick up game one for 15 dollars. So you'd get 3+ legendary lords for the faction which you bought the DLC for, plus 4 (albeit somewhat lacking) factions and access to Mortal Empires. Sounds like a bargain to me.
  • Rolf1989Rolf1989 Posts: 397Registered Users
    Oh sorry I said the exact same thing as Nyxilis and even quoted him. A brain fart.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 5,458Registered Users
    blaat said:

    seeing ash how the norsca wreck up proved that the code bases of WH1 and 2 are very different I doubt CA is going to port stuff back to game 1

    No, they would remake game 1 campaign from ME in game 2's codebase.
    Blaeys said:

    In my opinion, they need to treat Mortal Empires as a Game 2 game mode independent of game 1. Open it up to everyone that owns game 2, but only give access to the races and factions the player has paid for. Game one then becomes a bundled lord pack that includes the base factions.

    With that model, they could then justify not only adding new game one lords (that would playable separate from what you buy with game one), but they would also probably see renewed sales for the game one DLCs, all of which would become standalone DLC for either game.

    And it would set a precedent that works for game 3 as well.

    I own all content (TW WH are auto preorders for me), so this wouldn't affect me, but it would provide a business model that doesn't discourage revisiting older factions, which I agree is something of an issue right now.

    Then why not just open ME to game 1 owners? That way they can make cross game DLC without having to make game 1 a "pack" but treat it as they have until now, as a standalone.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • eomateomat Junior Member Posts: 953Registered Users
    I play ME exclusively. I mostly play Empire. The whole point of this trilogy is to bring the Warhammer World together West to East. Game 1 is finished but units for races that featured in that are not, hence Amethyst Wizard. As they bring out new factions some are always going to be left behind as they bring new ideas and mechanics to the current game. The older factions will need attention hence the updates. At some point WH3 will be out and hopefully we will then see DLC to bolster older factions (hoping for a massive Empire/Middenland/Nuln/Averland/Moot DLC at some point).

    I think we need to forget of WH1 as the game and rather just as a races pack for ME when talking about future content.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Posts: 3,398Registered Users
    Rolf1989 said:

    Goatforce said:

    BRiiTASH2 said:

    This was typed on a phone, so sorry in advance for any weird spelling/grammar errors.

    So I'd say we have a problem. There are only Lord Packs remaining for Warhammer II, which means there's a reasonably good chance that we could see some lord packs for the game one races. The catch is that game one is no longer supported and is very different from game two. If CA were to make new DLC for game one that is also compatible with game two, they would have several options: backport game two to game one so the two are basically the same version, release two different builds of the same DLC for the separate games, or release a game one DLC that can ONLY be used in game two. None of these are great option. The first two would require a pretty significant amount of time and effort on CA's part, and the last one would be an especially bad option as it is simply bad business practice.

    To give an example for that third option, say they released a Greenskin DLC for game two at a price of $6.00. In this case, if I only wanted to play Greenskins with the new content and wasn't interested in the game two content, I would have to buy a $60.00 game that I didn't just to play $6.00 content (assuming I already had game one). Needless to say, this is the worst option for the consumer, and CA would instantly lose at least my support and respect.

    So that leaves the first two options. Would CA backport, or would they make two different content versions? Like I said before, neither is a great option from a business perspective, as both would require more time, effort, and money than a regular DLC.

    Personally, I think that backporting and updating game one would be the best in the long run, as it would resolve the other options and make it much easier to create content for game one in the future. It would add the game two factions to game one (mainly Skaven) and allow access to the game one map for many of the factions (and I honestly hardly interact with the new world factions when playing the old world factions in ME anyway).

    And I don't really see any other way to add new game one stuff to game two aside from these three options. Now I'm no coder or programmer, so I might be missing something obvious, but these are some serious barriers to new game one content that aren't easily resolved. Anyway, eager to hear other people's thoughts because I'm rather skeptical that anything other that FLC will be added for the game one factions.

    Dude shut up, the Warhammer series is on sale. Stop being cheap and just buy the newer titles. People like you complaining about how CA chose to implement new dlc is the reason we get so little of it. D
    I have both games and all DLC. (Save for the blood pack.) The theoretical example is exactly that; a theoretical example. It's more a matter of principle than my actually situation, because my favorite race (Lizardmen) is game two and I like to play all the races. That's not the case for everyone, however, and if I was in a position where I had to buy a separate, full-priced game that I don't want just to buy relatively cheap DLC, I would be **** and it's not an appropriate policy for publishers. Buying other games should not be a requirement to access DLC for a game I already own. I do want new content for game one, but I'm not willing to sacrifice whatever standards I hold about the ethics of producers to get it.
    I don't think they'll do it that way though. Think you would be able to access the new OW LL in the Vortex, just without some game 1 units (Arachnorok is the example I use) and LLs. This allows a fair amount of access to game 2 only people, and would also act as marketing for game 1, as would allow people a good taster of other races, which is also good for CA.
    Yes, it seems like the most logical solution. But I do not see a reason to limit the units.
    Just curious, could it create a backlash of some kind? I saw some people complaining that people who didn't own Grim and the Grave got access to Strigoi Lord when VC was updated. It was ofc ridiculous and it was only a couple of people, but I'm very invested in TWW and just want them to add as much content as possible, so I might have a skevered view of what's fair business practice.
    The limit would mainly be to add incentive to buy 1, and also, as you say, to make sure that you basically can just play all of a faction from a LP, which is not ideal - partially because it isn't fair on game 1 owners (though many wouldn't complain) and also as it might set a bad precedent of allowing races in with LPs only which may encourage people to skip a game and get the race in a LP.

    These are minor, even hypothetical, problems but I do think it is fair for CA to keep units locked behind game 1 in this scenario to encourage people to buy game 1 where the factions feature. Some would still complain but getting most of a faction from half a LP is a good deal even if you don't buy game 1.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,145Registered Users
    They can still easily make game 1 races playable in game 2 without owning game 1. I imagine that any game 1 LLs that come (if any for DLC) would be playable on Vortex. If you just own game 2 and not game 1, they could just give you that one LL and the base roster to play with on Vortex. You still wouldn't get the other LLs, you still wouldn't get ME, and you still wouldn't get the first game DLC units. Simple as that.

    This way, all of us here could play as Grom the Paunch in Vortex or ME with all content and game 2 only owners (however many there are who also buy DLC) would be able to play Grom in Vortex starting on Ulthuan with the base game 1 roster and the new units from that DLC.

    Simple as that. It might even drive sales of game 1 and its DLC if that player plays as the GS and then wants to play as the other GS LLs or play on ME. I know there will be people that complain that they paid full price for game 1 and someone just buying the DLC for game 2 gets access to the roster, but they don't get access to everything and they still got to play it for over 2 years. The game has been given away for free on Humble Bundle before and I've seen codes for it go for as little as $3 on sale. At this point, game 1 has almost no value so giving a small amount of its content away to people who don't own game 1 doesn't devalue it, it just means that we ALL get new content. I want new content.

    That all being said, I still don't think we'll see crossgame content but I hope so.
    Later
  • Rolf1989Rolf1989 Posts: 397Registered Users
    Goatforce said:

    Rolf1989 said:

    Goatforce said:

    BRiiTASH2 said:

    This was typed on a phone, so sorry in advance for any weird spelling/grammar errors.

    So I'd say we have a problem. There are only Lord Packs remaining for Warhammer II, which means there's a reasonably good chance that we could see some lord packs for the game one races. The catch is that game one is no longer supported and is very different from game two. If CA were to make new DLC for game one that is also compatible with game two, they would have several options: backport game two to game one so the two are basically the same version, release two different builds of the same DLC for the separate games, or release a game one DLC that can ONLY be used in game two. None of these are great option. The first two would require a pretty significant amount of time and effort on CA's part, and the last one would be an especially bad option as it is simply bad business practice.

    To give an example for that third option, say they released a Greenskin DLC for game two at a price of $6.00. In this case, if I only wanted to play Greenskins with the new content and wasn't interested in the game two content, I would have to buy a $60.00 game that I didn't just to play $6.00 content (assuming I already had game one). Needless to say, this is the worst option for the consumer, and CA would instantly lose at least my support and respect.

    So that leaves the first two options. Would CA backport, or would they make two different content versions? Like I said before, neither is a great option from a business perspective, as both would require more time, effort, and money than a regular DLC.

    Personally, I think that backporting and updating game one would be the best in the long run, as it would resolve the other options and make it much easier to create content for game one in the future. It would add the game two factions to game one (mainly Skaven) and allow access to the game one map for many of the factions (and I honestly hardly interact with the new world factions when playing the old world factions in ME anyway).

    And I don't really see any other way to add new game one stuff to game two aside from these three options. Now I'm no coder or programmer, so I might be missing something obvious, but these are some serious barriers to new game one content that aren't easily resolved. Anyway, eager to hear other people's thoughts because I'm rather skeptical that anything other that FLC will be added for the game one factions.

    Dude shut up, the Warhammer series is on sale. Stop being cheap and just buy the newer titles. People like you complaining about how CA chose to implement new dlc is the reason we get so little of it. D
    I have both games and all DLC. (Save for the blood pack.) The theoretical example is exactly that; a theoretical example. It's more a matter of principle than my actually situation, because my favorite race (Lizardmen) is game two and I like to play all the races. That's not the case for everyone, however, and if I was in a position where I had to buy a separate, full-priced game that I don't want just to buy relatively cheap DLC, I would be **** and it's not an appropriate policy for publishers. Buying other games should not be a requirement to access DLC for a game I already own. I do want new content for game one, but I'm not willing to sacrifice whatever standards I hold about the ethics of producers to get it.
    I don't think they'll do it that way though. Think you would be able to access the new OW LL in the Vortex, just without some game 1 units (Arachnorok is the example I use) and LLs. This allows a fair amount of access to game 2 only people, and would also act as marketing for game 1, as would allow people a good taster of other races, which is also good for CA.
    Yes, it seems like the most logical solution. But I do not see a reason to limit the units.
    Just curious, could it create a backlash of some kind? I saw some people complaining that people who didn't own Grim and the Grave got access to Strigoi Lord when VC was updated. It was ofc ridiculous and it was only a couple of people, but I'm very invested in TWW and just want them to add as much content as possible, so I might have a skevered view of what's fair business practice.
    The limit would mainly be to add incentive to buy 1, and also, as you say, to make sure that you basically can just play all of a faction from a LP, which is not ideal - partially because it isn't fair on game 1 owners (though many wouldn't complain) and also as it might set a bad precedent of allowing races in with LPs only which may encourage people to skip a game and get the race in a LP.

    These are minor, even hypothetical, problems but I do think it is fair for CA to keep units locked behind game 1 in this scenario to encourage people to buy game 1 where the factions feature. Some would still complain but getting most of a faction from half a LP is a good deal even if you don't buy game 1.
    Ok I see your point. I would argue getting the extra Legendary Lords and Mortal Empires would be enough. But yeah if one of the objectives is to minimize backlash it might be a good idea.

    Side note, if cross game DLC gets added it is getting messy for casual (in lack of a better word) newcomers to understand what they need to buy. I love that we'll end up with all factions in one game, but damn, in retrospective it's been a messy road. Then again, I'm not aware of another franchise who has tried this, so I'm glad they decided to try.
  • hendo1592hendo1592 Posts: 1,605Registered Users
    edited May 2019
    Any type of game 1 content, flc or dlc-imo- will only be available in ME.
    I could actually see all cross dlc only being available in ME campaign.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,145Registered Users
    hendo1592 said:

    Any type of game 1 content, flc or dlc-imo- will only be available in ME.
    I could actually see all cross dlc only being available in ME campaign.

    It could easily be in Vortex too if they want. I mean, Grom would be in Ulthuan. An Empire LL could be in Sudenburg. Dwarf in either Southlands or Lustria mountains. VC could go anywhere though presumably in the southlands and usurp the Strigoi or Necrarch.

    Because it's all a marketing issue. If they want to be able to sell the DLC and make it clear to owners of game 2 only that they can still play it, that's how they'd have to do it. Then they could be moved where ever for ME.

    I mean, I don't think it'll happen because of the marketing difficulties, but it isn't insurmountable. You'd just have to make the content so anyone buying it could play it with the owners of game 1 getting more benefit from it with ME. I thnk that's the only way they'd minimize the grief is by making sure everyone would be able to get the content.

    Now, the question of how many game 2 owners don't own game 1, but also buy the DLC for game 2 is unclear. That's got to be a small subset of players. Because at this point, if you just own game 2, but are buying the DLC for it, game one on sale is basically just another DLC that unlocks ME and like 12 new LLs and 4 new races (not included game 1 DLC).

    I'd have to assume that if you didn't buy game 1, but bought game 2 and liked it enough to start buying the DLC, including cross-game DLC, that you'd probably already have or be more than willing to pick up game 1 as well just for all of the new content it'd give you.
    Later
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 17,242Registered Users
    Fourth option: If you buy Grom you get access to the game 1 GS roster except for the Skarksnik LP units. So you get Grom as your LL (None of the others) and all the units bar those in the other LP.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • monkeybotmonkeybot Posts: 26Registered Users
    edited May 2019
    I think people all have to remember is that although, yes they are 2 and will be 3 stand alone games, but the ME campaign has and always been and will be the final goal for CA where the massive Warhammer world with all the races put into one campaign. sounds epic right. I think if we are going to get that amazing final product we are going to have to accept that cross LL packs are coming and personally I don't have a problem with that. all they have to do to really fix that problem is bring out a lord pack where both lords are sold separately or discounted together. that way if you just want the wh2 lord you can get that for the vortex campaign but if you want the WH1 lord you need to have ME to play that lord they are not gonna waste there time updating WH1 so you can play the WH1 LL in the game when ME has all and 100 times better content then WH1. personally I don't know why you would play WH1 now when you have all of WH1 in the ME campaign plus so much more. WH1 looks like trash compared to what we have now with ME.

    also I don't understand what people are complaining about I just checked steam and you can get WH1 for the same price as a newly released wh2 DLC so I don't understand why you wouldn't just buy that if you only own WH2 to play your WH1 LL in your Vortex campaign buy a DLC with 2 LL or buy Wh1 for the same price and get 14 LL amongst 5 races.

    they are not going to update Wh1 I'm sorry to say its an old game no game developer will update the entire game just to add 1 LL they haven't updated starting lactations for WH1 they would not add stuff to it now but then why should we expect them to no other game studios adds content to old games because they made contact for a sequel that might fit into an old game. if you have only got Wh1 all your DLC cycle has been and gone and you all ready knew that so I don't understand why people are getting angry when they see a hit of something that may fit into there standalone game but then not get it.
    Post edited by monkeybot on
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,145Registered Users

    Fourth option: If you buy Grom you get access to the game 1 GS roster except for the Skarksnik LP units. So you get Grom as your LL (None of the others) and all the units bar those in the other LP.

    Yeah this is what I basically think it would be. IF, and that's a big if, it were to come.Thanks for saying that in a much shorter way than I can!
    Later
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,823Registered Users

    Fourth option: If you buy Grom you get access to the game 1 GS roster except for the Skarksnik LP units. So you get Grom as your LL (None of the others) and all the units bar those in the other LP.

    Yeah this is what I basically think it would be. IF, and that's a big if, it were to come.Thanks for saying that in a much shorter way than I can!
    Out of the question.

    Would immediately incite the anger of all those who got access to ME the "old fashioned way" or bought WH1 for this very purpose. There'd be cries for compensation and refunds from the moment this became known.

  • GoatforceGoatforce Posts: 3,398Registered Users
    hendo1592 said:

    Any type of game 1 content, flc or dlc-imo- will only be available in ME.
    I could actually see all cross dlc only being available in ME campaign.

    Doubtful, DLC for game 2 can't have half it's stuff locked behind game 1. They could just slip the lords into the Vortex campaign anyway, they don't really need to compete for it.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,145Registered Users

    Fourth option: If you buy Grom you get access to the game 1 GS roster except for the Skarksnik LP units. So you get Grom as your LL (None of the others) and all the units bar those in the other LP.

    Yeah this is what I basically think it would be. IF, and that's a big if, it were to come.Thanks for saying that in a much shorter way than I can!
    Out of the question.

    Would immediately incite the anger of all those who got access to ME the "old fashioned way" or bought WH1 for this very purpose. There'd be cries for compensation and refunds from the moment this became known.
    You still wouldn't have access to ME? I'm not sure what you're talking about. It's being stated that you'd have access to that one LL and their base game 1 roster on the Vortex map. Like Grom in Ulthuan or a VC in the Southlands or something. No one is saying game 2 only players would have access to ME or to the LLs from the first game.

    But even setting that aside, really? There'd be cries for refunds? I'm sorry but you'd really be that upset over a game you bought more than 2 years ago and played tons of time in that someone now would pay $8 and get partial access to some of the content for a game you can get for $5 on most any steam key site? That just seems really petty. You're talking about mass cries of compensation and refunds because some new player, giving money to CA and increasing our availability of content, might not have spent $5 to purchase WH1?

    First, I think there is very little evidence there are people who own game 2, not game 1, and would then buy crossgame style DLC. Second, if anything, it would encourage them to then buy game 1 so they'd get access to the game 1 LLs and the ME map. Third, I'd just think most people would not be upset about some very small subset of users getting access to the core GS roster for use in the Vortex map if they bought crossgame DLC without owning game 1. Otherwise, it just won't happen. Otherwise, you're talking about selling game 2 DLC that can't be played by game 2 owners who don't have game 1. That's a marketing nightmare. The only way it would happen would be if everyone who owns game 2 can buy it and play it.

    I'm obviously not omniscient, but I'm not aware of any game DLC that isn't playable with just the game it's purchased for.
    Later
  • GwydionGwydion Senior Member Posts: 2,166Registered Users
    Honestly.... as much as I hate playing broken bretonia in game 1 or other annoying crap when i play game 1 ( which is alot because I constantly wait for mods to update because of patches or just not wanting toplay game 2 because of broken crap until its fixed like the ruins bug ) I really, REALLY hope.... they never touch game 1 ever again... because its perfect thanks to all teh mods i have set up and if they pull a rome 2 and break it 5 years down the line im going to walk into CA's building and flip ALL their tables at the exact same gd time.
    PLEASE CA!!! Chaos Warriors need a faction that is not horde only by the time the trilogy is finished! We beg of you!

    Just Realized this topic has been viewed more, the topic of " Limiting Race Expansion/ Colonization Expansion" alone than more than half of the stickied things at the top of the forum... I hope you are too CA and I mean that in a positive way from a huge fan!

    Please improve sieges! Add racial flavor and ACTUALLY make them "deeper rather than wide" copy and paste with different art needs to go!
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