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Is it me, or did poor Sally the Salamander get overnerfed?

NielspeterdejongNielspeterdejong Registered Users Posts: 294
I mean, yeah she was strong. But she helped compensate for some of the other mediocre Lizardmen units, giving them that needed ranged advantage.

Now she not only lost her range, as well as the slow debuff, but ALSO almost 1900 health! That is simply too much.

I'd prefer that they had simply just nerfed one of her parts, either her health or her ranged, but not both. I hope CA will consider reverting at least one of these nerfs.

Comments

  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 8,342
    The range loss was a must, i do think she got hit hard BUT at same time i think she went from Broken OP to balanced unit, it is a big jump so i say it will take getting used to, it still has good range now you just need to dodge arrow shots between your shots so its more balanced, it can still 2 shot units with its damage, I do think the nerf was well deserved.
  • Rolf1989Rolf1989 Registered Users Posts: 409
    I assume you are talking about MP?
    In campaign she is still a wonderful unit.
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 739
    Rolf1989 said:

    I assume you are talking about MP?
    In campaign she is still a wonderful unit.

    Except you know way to late in campaign with a building you don't want to take to tier four anyway.
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,983
    Sally ABSOLUTELY got overnerfed.

    Lost her slowing effect so cavalry can catch her now (fair nerf...although I would have preferred if they just nerfed her own speed instead...but that’s kinda splitting hairs I guess)

    Lost 20 range so she’ll get fewer shots in before the enemy closes/gets to shoot back (fair nerf in a vacuum. Before Sally could pay for herself in a ridiculously small number of shots)

    Got a nerf to her damage/explosion damage...^^ same as above. Fair nerf in a vacuum that will require her to get more shots in to pay for herself. I honestly felt damage should have remained the same but maybe give Sally a price hike....but eh, splitting hairs again.

    But then.....on top of all that....Sally lost 1/3???!!!! Of her HP?!!?!?

    That’s ^^ an unprecedented amount for a single nerfbat and it really does make her worthless/too risky to bring in most match ups.

    Cavalry can catch her now or at least keep her running/not shooting. And the range/damage nerfs combined means that she both needs to get more shots off to pay for herself while also simultaneously closing the window she can fire before the enemy can shoot back.....which would be fine if she could tank a couple volleys but she can’t......like at all.

    If the enemy closes the ranged gap she is just toast. Period. 2-3 volleys from just about anything pretty much causes Sally to rout now. She’s just waaaay too risky/squishy to bring in any match up where the enemy has meaningful ranged or even armor piercing missile cav......so basically most match ups.

    In 95% of the situations you previously might have wanted to bring Sally....you pretty much straight up will prefer to bring a Solar Engine instead now which will have a much better chance of living long enough to pay for itself.
  • Bogdanov89Bogdanov89 Registered Users Posts: 738
    i dont like salamander nerfs but im not sure were they needed or not.

    however i am 1000000000% sure that the Kroxigor nerfs are absolute bullshtt.

    I have never seen a kroxigor used in any serious TWW2 multiplayer game and just by looking at their stats they are a garbage monstrous infantry that requires tier 4 and an expensive secondary building that has no purpose on its own.

    Kroxigors are just redundant in LM arsenal and will never be as good as the dinosaurs.
    So nerfing them over and over is truly pointless..... even if they were a good unit the dinosaurs are always better.
    Check out the Community Bug Fix Mod on the Steam Workshop.
  • Aram_theheadAram_thehead Registered Users Posts: 994
    Yeah Kroxigors are a joke
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Registered Users Posts: 575
    We obvious have a sweet Kroxigor Legendary Hero coming our way next DLC. It's the only way the nerfs make sense, right? :tongue:
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Registered Users Posts: 522

    The range loss was a must, i do think she got hit hard BUT at same time i think she went from Broken OP to balanced unit, it is a big jump so i say it will take getting used to, it still has good range now you just need to dodge arrow shots between your shots so its more balanced, it can still 2 shot units with its damage, I do think the nerf was well deserved.

    Range loss was certainly not a must. Ancient Salamander was living artillery unit, now it's outranged by any missile unit with a longer range than Empire Crossbows. Regular artillery is slow and weak in melee, but usually has well over 300 range. The Ancient Salamander had a considerably lower range, but just enough to be out of range of pretty much any archer unit.
    At its current range, the salamander can easily be outranged and turned into a pincushion by a lot of archers (most of which are elves). The range nerf would be less of a problem if it still had the health to tank non-AP missiles, but it lost ~1800 health. It's also not a great melee combatant, so it can easily be routed once it's caught out. And at the close range the Salamander has to be at, it'll be pretty easy to force it into melee combat. It has speed, but it's turning harms its maneuverability. It's really not much good at anything without its range advantage.
  • EnforestEnforest Registered Users Posts: 2,125
    Both Kroxigor and Salamander nerfs were over the top and uncalled for.


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 17,799
    Enforest said:

    Both Kroxigor and Salamander nerfs were over the top and uncalled for.

    If anything Kroxigors needed a big buff to go along with being T4. They were a mediocre T3 unit. It's a pity since they'd work really well with Skinks.

    Any one of little sal's nerfs would've been enough. The 3 combined makes her a campaign only unit.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Bogdanov89Bogdanov89 Registered Users Posts: 738
    edited May 2019
    Lizardmen are a campaign-only faction, they are too weak to be used in a high skill multiplayer match.

    What is really sad is that LM also have the worst campaign out of any tww2 faction.

    The way LM city building tree works is horrendous and does not work at all if you do not start in Hexoatl (which gets 2 slots per tier instead of 1 like Kroq'gar capital).

    Weapon Crafter Commune structure should be completely removed (kroxi, temple guard and horned ones would require just tier 4 capital and their relevant structure).
    The Cold Ones and Terradons structures should be merged into one structure chain that goes like this:

    tier 1: Feral Cold Ones
    tier 2: basic Teradon Riders
    tier 3: Cold Ones spears and Cold Ones swords
    tier 4: Horned ones, Rippers, Fire Bola Teradons.

    That way LM need less building slots which allows them greater city building flexibility.
    Also they will have greater unit variety thanks to the new Cold Ones+Terradons chain and removal of Weapon Crafter Commune.
    Check out the Community Bug Fix Mod on the Steam Workshop.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,046

    Lizardmen are a campaign-only faction, they are too weak to be used in a high skill multiplayer match.

    What is really sad is that LM also have the worst campaign out of any tww2 faction.

    The way LM city building tree works is horrendous and does not work at all if you do not start in Hexoatl (which gets 2 slots per tier instead of 1 like Kroq'gar capital).

    Weapon Crafter Commune structure should be completely removed (kroxi, temple guard and horned ones would require just tier 4 capital and their relevant structure).
    The Cold Ones and Terradons structures should be merged into one structure chain that goes like this:

    tier 1: Feral Cold Ones
    tier 2: basic Teradon Riders
    tier 3: Cold Ones spears and Cold Ones swords
    tier 4: Horned ones, Rippers, Fire Bola Teradons.

    That way LM need less building slots which allows them greater city building flexibility.
    Also they will have greater unit variety thanks to the new Cold Ones+Terradons chain and removal of Weapon Crafter Commune.

    I'm a little leery about having one building that has both Saurus and Skink units.

    What they could do, though, is have a cross-dependency on the basic Saurus and Skink buildings. So if you have the Saurus building and the cavalry building, that unlocks Cold One cavalry and Horned Ones. Conversely, if you have the Skink building and the cavalry building, that unlocks Terradons and Ripperdactyls. So you can't build anything except Feral Cold Ones if all you have is the basic cavalry building, but you can get all the infantry and cavalry out of three building slots.
  • Bogdanov89Bogdanov89 Registered Users Posts: 738
    That also sounds interesting and unique.
    Check out the Community Bug Fix Mod on the Steam Workshop.
  • Fraxure022Fraxure022 Registered Users Posts: 82
    CA was growing concerned that the Lizardmen were dangerously close to being able to compete with the other factions.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Registered Users Posts: 1,833

    Lizardmen are a campaign-only faction, they are too weak to be used in a high skill multiplayer match.

    Not true at all.
  • SpesstacoSpesstaco Registered Users Posts: 9
    Yeah its hard nerfs like that despite videos by expert youtubers stating what needs to be fixed that makes me think they lied about 3 kingdoms not taking work away from warhammer 2. The massive hp nerf made no sense at all. At least not to be that big. Also amethyst wizard hasnt helped the empire not suck. Old races still such in campaign and i legit wonder when they will get buffed. Would like to try a decent wood elves mortal empires campaign without hating every second of it due to amber and not being able to upgrade settlements too much lol
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,046
    It's possibly a case of CA deciding it was SO strong that the important thing was just to get it out of the meta ASAP, and they'll reduce the nerfs once they've had more opportunity to evaluate.

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