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I found the actual problem with towers (its a BUG)

cool_ladcool_lad Senior MemberIndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
edited June 2019 in Campaign & Battle Bugs
It seems like the only sort of towers that are actually an issue are the perimeter defense towers placed on minor settlement and resource towns. These towers, unlike the other kinds are far too powerful for the following reasons:-
1. (BUG) The damage on these towers specific is apparently extremely high; about 1000 AP damage to be specific; this means that they do massive amounts of damage and have an ungodly amount of DPS. Fixing this should solve most issues with these towers.
2. They combine a dual tower layout with higher range. The towers in cities are either single towers with high range or dual towers with lower range. I think that a slight DPS nerf (after fixing the bug) to below that of the city version may be in order, since as things stand, these towers have the best of both worlds; being double towers with high range.

The other towers are fine and not in need of nerfs; it's just these bugged ones that seem to be the source of the issues.


Edit: added in image showing the issue for clarification. Please note the bottom 2 entries, which present a massive anomaly when compared to the other kinds of towers and are the prima facie source of the issue.


Post edited by cool_lad on

Comments

  • FwiffoFwiffo Registered Users Posts: 22
    being double towers with high range.

    And a limited fire arc, unlike the inside towers - once you get clear of that, they're harmless.

    Tower balance actually looks fine and might well be intentional - without the towers as they are there's simply no way to kill generals in Romance mode for instance - normal garrison units simply cannot touch them. It also returns the incentive to siege settlements rather than assault them on turn 1, and brings city assault battles back into the game after defanged towers of previous titles.

    There are at least 5 different method of countering them (siege, trebuchets, fire arrows, shields, stalk, general skills in Romance), so while their current power cannot be ignored (and it shouldn't), it can be easily avoided.


    The only problem with the towers right now is that they don't seem to scale with unit sizes.
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
    Fwiffo said:

    being double towers with high range.

    And a limited fire arc, unlike the inside towers - once you get clear of that, they're harmless.

    Tower balance actually looks fine and might well be intentional - without the towers as they are there's simply no way to kill generals in Romance mode for instance - normal garrison units simply cannot touch them. It also returns the incentive to siege settlements rather than assault them on turn 1, and brings city assault battles back into the game after defanged towers of previous titles.

    There are at least 5 different method of countering them (siege, trebuchets, fire arrows, shields, stalk, general skills in Romance), so while their current power cannot be ignored (and it shouldn't), it can be easily avoided.


    The only problem with the towers right now is that they don't seem to scale with unit sizes.
    Tower balance is pretty much on point for cities . However the same can not be said for the very specific case of minor settlements and resource towns.

    The towers in these specific cases have massive damage, combined with large firing arcs and overlapping fields of fire; they're harder to assault than actual cities.

    Double tower setups, even within cities have a 180 degree arc of fire. The bugged double tower setup on minor towns has that same arc of fire, but is better in every single way, to the point of being absurdly overpowered.
  • FwiffoFwiffo Registered Users Posts: 22
    cool_lad said:

    The towers in these specific cases have massive damage, combined with large firing arcs and overlapping fields of fire; they're harder to assault than actual cities.

    Only if you're fielding nothing but units of unshielded Ji Militia. There has been only one case where there was no approach where you could not avoid overlapping towers - the settlement near Liu Bei starting position. In all others there is at least one weak spot where you can approach under only one set of towers.
    cool_lad said:

    Double tower setups, even within cities have a 180 degree arc of fire. The double tower setup on minor towns has that same arc of fire, but is better in every single way, to the point of being absurdly overpowered.

    That's just not true. Towers come in 2 variations - limited fire arc but huge range, or full circle fire with shorter range. Towers being single or double has no bearing over it - most double tower setups inside both major and minor settlements are the full circle type with some exceptions. I can get you some screenshots to showcase this, or you can easily see it for yourself.
    I'd withhold judging them as bugged - they're literally the only counter the garrison has against generals in Romance mode, and even with that they take ages to kill even a fragile strategist. Towers are also extremely fragile, and I have even provided you with a brief list of easy counters. For instance, fire arrows literally take one or two volleys from several archer units to set them on fire - without an ability to put those fire out, so you can just stand back and watch as they go down.
  • HugothesterHugothester Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 566
    cool_lad said:

    Fwiffo said:

    being double towers with high range.

    And a limited fire arc, unlike the inside towers - once you get clear of that, they're harmless.

    Tower balance actually looks fine and might well be intentional - without the towers as they are there's simply no way to kill generals in Romance mode for instance - normal garrison units simply cannot touch them. It also returns the incentive to siege settlements rather than assault them on turn 1, and brings city assault battles back into the game after defanged towers of previous titles.

    There are at least 5 different method of countering them (siege, trebuchets, fire arrows, shields, stalk, general skills in Romance), so while their current power cannot be ignored (and it shouldn't), it can be easily avoided.


    The only problem with the towers right now is that they don't seem to scale with unit sizes.
    Tower balance is pretty much on point for cities . However the same can not be said for the very specific case of minor settlements and resource towns.

    The towers in these specific cases have massive damage, combined with large firing arcs and overlapping fields of fire; they're harder to assault than actual cities.

    Double tower setups, even within cities have a 180 degree arc of fire. The bugged double tower setup on minor towns has that same arc of fire, but is better in every single way, to the point of being absurdly overpowered.
    I agree 100%
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  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 19,163
    I have to disagree. I've not found towers to be an issue whether attacking or defending (where they are very useful) in cities or small towns and villages. They only time I've had a problem with them was when I did something stupid with my attacking force. Didn't take long to learn from those mistakes.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
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    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
    dge1 said:

    I have to disagree. I've not found towers to be an issue whether attacking or defending (where they are very useful) in cities or small towns and villages. They only time I've had a problem with them was when I did something stupid with my attacking force. Didn't take long to learn from those mistakes.

    Most towers are fine. As clearly stated in the original post, I'm trying to report a bug with a specific set of towers that got an extra 0 added to their AP damage. I'm going this so that don't nerf the rest instead of fixing the typo. Most towers have a DPS of 150-160ish, these bugged towers have a DPS of 600.

    I'm basing this off someone who's actually gone into the tables and seen the issue.

    It's a teeny tiny typo with a massively outsized impact.

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