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Balance, just look at MK11 example

DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users
Mortal Kombat 11 is selling as hell, it has reached a top sale for a game not just a fighting game. It has most of its characters on A and S tier as sonicfox also shown in his tier list. This is what makes the game FUN cause balance allows for strong gameplay, but also breaker system is really good so you can defend against strong stuff. It only has 2 "low tier" characters which now shine so they aren't low tier people just need to wait until they learn how all characters function, and in balance patch NRS just gona buff the much fewer in number "low tier" characters, if there are any cause people haven't yet figure out how each character works. This is what I was talking about when I was asking for a strong game, destructive stuff being destructive and not a feather touch etc. It took ages to make some steps forward and then qqers started qqing to ruin some well made units like SoS and others. CA just look at the sales of MK11 which doesn't have weakling balance, this is what people want, a strong game which doesn't limit their creativity and stuff they do work well, aren't a placebo. MK11 sales rate prove it. So CA restore ruined - nerfed units and buff - fix the weak factions of the game which are more sadly than the well made. You got a long way ahead CA, start walking it cause time will pass either way.

Comments

  • c0rvusc0rvus Posts: 203Registered Users
    Thought he was talking about firearms lol.

    Anyway, that game was banned here and I'm not sure why devs need to watch out for the sales number of other game that is from a different genre, it's not even their competion.

    Unless somebody can come out make a better Totalwar game to push CA out of their own comfort zone, the big changes that you were hoping for is unlikely to happen. Dev that roams in this forum probably don't have that kind of power in the company to take initiative. What they've done in the past, whether it's good or bad to you and many others in this subforum, probably doesn't even matter to the more casual player base outside of this subforum.

    A lot of things had already said in the past it's all up to them now. They've been making the same game for quite some years and latest Three Kingsdom seemed to be doing well, because the Chinese are buying it. They can just keep make games for casual fan base and won't nothing harm come to their sales number, because there has not been any competition.
  • PippingtonPippington Posts: 2,026Registered Users
    Doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me. There's no army-building in fighting games, it's a whole other dimension of variation to account for that makes the task of balancing much more difficult.

    I whine about balance as much as the next guy but we should all take a moment now and then to appreciate the scale of the challenge of balancing a game like this.


    Get on, Kroq-Gar, we're going shopping

  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Posts: 729Registered Users
    Exactly what Pippington said.

    The scales are not at all comparable.
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users
    edited June 7

    Doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me. There's no army-building in fighting games, it's a whole other dimension of variation to account for that makes the task of balancing much more difficult.

    I whine about balance as much as the next guy but we should all take a moment now and then to appreciate the scale of the challenge of balancing a game like this.

    Point taken. About, different category of game, I was talking about how they handled balance, no making weaklings for characters, whereas here CA is scared to make units strengths and weaknesses as they should be.
  • ElectorOfWurttembergElectorOfWurttemberg Posts: 1,930Registered Users
    c0rvus said:

    Thought he was talking about firearms lol.

    haha same.
    Faith, Steel and Gunpowder Bows
  • keroro7keroro7 Posts: 220Registered Users
    i think the thread writer talking about the importance of quick feedback.
    so i agree with this article that the continuous communication with users and quick reflection keeps users interested.
    also fighting games are one of the hardest to balance games, if they did it well, it should be an honest praise.
    on the other hand, even if it is not fast, I am satisfied with continuous communication with the user and take feedback.
    actually, I do not like it very much what to belong to the community or use discord.
    even thought, the reason I signed up here. because the content actually discussed is reflected in the game. lol
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users
    keroro7 said:

    i think the thread writer talking about the importance of quick feedback.
    so i agree with this article that the continuous communication with users and quick reflection keeps users interested.
    also fighting games are one of the hardest to balance games, if they did it well, it should be an honest praise.
    on the other hand, even if it is not fast, I am satisfied with continuous communication with the user and take feedback.
    actually, I do not like it very much what to belong to the community or use discord.
    even thought, the reason I signed up here. because the content actually discussed is reflected in the game. lol

    Is there a discord server for TWW?
  • keroro7keroro7 Posts: 220Registered Users

    keroro7 said:

    i think the thread writer talking about the importance of quick feedback.
    so i agree with this article that the continuous communication with users and quick reflection keeps users interested.
    also fighting games are one of the hardest to balance games, if they did it well, it should be an honest praise.
    on the other hand, even if it is not fast, I am satisfied with continuous communication with the user and take feedback.
    actually, I do not like it very much what to belong to the community or use discord.
    even thought, the reason I signed up here. because the content actually discussed is reflected in the game. lol

    Is there a discord server for TWW?
    there are only two things I know, coz I learn to see the video of the good players.
    (the chat is also helpful if u know about good players.)

    https://discordapp.com/invite/KbNnY2v <= lotus moon's discord
    but I don't know it actually works on now coz don't join there by myself.
    there is also a Korean discord, but it probably will not help.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,902Registered Users
    There is total war tournamemt discord with around 1000 members. @ShetlandApache do you mind linking it as for some reason my link doesnt work.
  • Ares354Ares354 Posts: 2,018Registered Users

    Doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me. There's no army-building in fighting games, it's a whole other dimension of variation to account for that makes the task of balancing much more difficult.

    I whine about balance as much as the next guy but we should all take a moment now and then to appreciate the scale of the challenge of balancing a game like this.

    Maybe use different pov. Let compere effort puted by CA in this game balance with other companies. That the whole point. Waiting half of year for balance patch is JUST joke.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 3,777Registered Users
    Ares354 said:

    Doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me. There's no army-building in fighting games, it's a whole other dimension of variation to account for that makes the task of balancing much more difficult.

    I whine about balance as much as the next guy but we should all take a moment now and then to appreciate the scale of the challenge of balancing a game like this.

    Maybe use different pov. Let compere effort puted by CA in this game balance with other companies. That the whole point. Waiting half of year for balance patch is JUST joke.
    That may not be by choice but an effect of their parallel development. The game is big and lots of things to qc...
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,493Registered Users
    MK11? It's received 57% positive review score.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 13,363Registered Users, Moderators
    Hold on. This game is very well balanced for a strategy game with so many different factions.

    I remember how impressive it was when Starcraft launched with mostly balanced factions. There were three of them. I think that CA has definitely put effort into balancing the game. Its not perfect by any means, but they've done work on it.
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  • Green0Green0 Posts: 5,256Registered Users
    Canuovea said:

    Hold on. This game is very well balanced for a strategy game with so many different factions.

    I remember how impressive it was when Starcraft launched with mostly balanced factions. There were three of them. I think that CA has definitely put effort into balancing the game. Its not perfect by any means, but they've done work on it.

    1 patch every 6 months and only accompanied by a DLC drop and we had super broken stuff like Ancient Salamander at launch or Lord Kroak... a lot of effort really. It takes 5 minutes to realize Kroak is busted (the launch version and even current version) which makes me think the time spent worrying about Multiplayer in releasing this DLC was very very low.
  • KurnothHunterKurnothHunter Posts: 238Registered Users
    balancing fighting game is no way as hard as balancing TW Warhammer

    Warhammer is a game where many new things took place - the very first time CA implemented units like monsters and strong single entities, flying units, different types of damage and protections (magical, physical, missile defense, ward), magic abilities, asymmetrical balance instead of "rock, paper, scissors"


  • Ares354Ares354 Posts: 2,018Registered Users
    Canuovea said:

    Hold on. This game is very well balanced for a strategy game with so many different factions.

    I remember how impressive it was when Starcraft launched with mostly balanced factions. There were three of them. I think that CA has definitely put effort into balancing the game. Its not perfect by any means, but they've done work on it.

    HOLD you horses here. Dont compere Starcraft that is game balanced around PRO players and Esport with Total War warahmmer, ok ? Its just silly and show how little you know about that.

    When was last time CA fixed Repeater handgun ? Yea, never. Ca didint put effort into balancing, BECAUSE to balance game you have to do this more then 1 per 6 months, with DLC, ok ?

    Ares354 said:

    Doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me. There's no army-building in fighting games, it's a whole other dimension of variation to account for that makes the task of balancing much more difficult.

    I whine about balance as much as the next guy but we should all take a moment now and then to appreciate the scale of the challenge of balancing a game like this.

    Maybe use different pov. Let compere effort puted by CA in this game balance with other companies. That the whole point. Waiting half of year for balance patch is JUST joke.
    That may not be by choice but an effect of their parallel development. The game is big and lots of things to qc...
    Really, game its big, its more then 3 years, and still CA didnt have time to fix for example Repeater handgun, but adding powercreeping stuff, they have enough time. Funny.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 3,777Registered Users
    Ares354 said:

    Canuovea said:

    Hold on. This game is very well balanced for a strategy game with so many different factions.

    I remember how impressive it was when Starcraft launched with mostly balanced factions. There were three of them. I think that CA has definitely put effort into balancing the game. Its not perfect by any means, but they've done work on it.

    HOLD you horses here. Dont compere Starcraft that is game balanced around PRO players and Esport with Total War warahmmer, ok ? Its just silly and show how little you know about that.

    When was last time CA fixed Repeater handgun ? Yea, never. Ca didint put effort into balancing, BECAUSE to balance game you have to do this more then 1 per 6 months, with DLC, ok ?

    Ares354 said:

    Doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me. There's no army-building in fighting games, it's a whole other dimension of variation to account for that makes the task of balancing much more difficult.

    I whine about balance as much as the next guy but we should all take a moment now and then to appreciate the scale of the challenge of balancing a game like this.

    Maybe use different pov. Let compere effort puted by CA in this game balance with other companies. That the whole point. Waiting half of year for balance patch is JUST joke.
    That may not be by choice but an effect of their parallel development. The game is big and lots of things to qc...
    Really, game its big, its more then 3 years, and still CA didnt have time to fix for example Repeater handgun, but adding powercreeping stuff, they have enough time. Funny.
    Just saying that more frequent patches may not be on the table at all because of how the development team works in parallel. I don't know this, but it might very well be... They did describe their way or parallel development when they explained the Norsca debacle... :smile:

    I fully agree though that the DLC balancing policy has been way off lately.
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users

    MK11? It's received 57% positive review score.

    I think it's more than that, even Angry Joe liked it's content.
  • angry_rat_loverangry_rat_lover Posts: 1,060Registered Users
    I think CA should have a dedicated balancing team and should not listen or see balancing opinions/requests from the forums where people are mostly biased, see the last patch for example
    Soon
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Posts: 467Registered Users

    I think CA should have a dedicated balancing team and should not listen or see balancing opinions/requests from the forums where people are mostly biased, see the last patch for example

    This, combined with separate balancing for campaign and multiplayer would actually resolve a lot of the issues I have with the way this game is currently run. Balance could be based purely on statistical data and not on anecdotal information.

    Fundamental changes to how certain aspects of the game work (summons, healing caps, healing magic, etc.) would only impact multiplayer and would be balanced in a different way for campaign.
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