Prestige becomes useless.

Levi_fowl27 · June 2019

Although quite important at the beginning of the game, there comes a point where Prestige becomes useless.
This really seems like a waste to me, why not add a new mechanic to it? For example:

There comes a point where you want a lot more Administrators, and Assignment available to your faction.

Why not, exchange Prestige Points for these Offices?

Of course with each exchange the price of the positions increases a lot, preventing abuse, but guaranteeing a constant utility for Prestige throughout the game.

On a more personal note ...

Access to new positions would also be very good.
There is the Prime Minister, why not other Ministers?
Above Administrators, but below Council.

Chanceller: +15% Income of the Peasantry.

Chief of Taxes: +5% Peasantry Income.
Inspector Chief: -5% Corruption.
Confucian Ceremonialist: +5 Public Order.

Grand Comandant: -10% cost of Recruitment.

Military Foreman: -3% cost of Recruitment.
Military Superintendent: -5% Infantry(melee and polearms) upkeep.
Military Strategist: +5 military supplies.

Grand Excellency: +15% Industry Income.

Master Artifice: + 5% Industry Income.
Master Engineer: -5% Construction cost.
Master of roads and bridges: +5% Speed of movement (in campaign).

Grand Director: +25% Food (agriculture) and +25% Food (fishing).

Minister of Agriculture: +10% Food (agriculture).
Minister of Fisheries: +15% Food (fishing).
Minister of Reserves: +5 Reserves(for all settlements).

Grand Tutor: +15% Character experience and +50% trade influence.

Imperial Rector: +5% Character experience.
Imperial Merchant: +12% trade influence.
Imperial Manager: -5% Building upkeep.

Of course, they all also make the characters only have desires for higher positions from level 6.

I think I went out a little on the tangent with all these new positions...

Back to topic...

I'd really like to see a way to make Prestige relevant in mid/late game, and I really think purchasing Administrators and Assignments with it would be a significant improvement...

What do you guys think about exchange Prestige Points for these Offices?

And about the news positions?

tadakatsu · June 2019

if im not mistaken prestige is only for rank up from the different faction ranks so it never becomes irrelevant it just only serves one purpose

tadakatsu · June 2019

also the positions you listed many of those are for dong zhou specifically well the main ones are anyway not the ones you listed below each

Rewan · June 2019

Actually I don't think Prestige is useless, but it seems to me that it comes way too easily into the players hands and yet not too easily into the AI's hands

tadakatsu · June 2019

not too easily in ai hands? have you played on legendary?: lol

Rewan · June 2019

No because legendary is not meant to be a reference, it's meant to be a challenge.

tadakatsu · June 2019

yeah well easy and normal are meant for beginners so obviously it will hand everything to the player easily

Rewan · June 2019

Normal is meant for you know NORMAL playthrough (because apparently it's not clear enough for some people). Even if - yes - Hard (not very hard or legendary) is generally considered (even by CA) as the "standard" difficulty for an experienced TW player.

tadakatsu · June 2019

okay then easy for beginner normal average hard experienced veryhard/legendary very experienced?

Misaka_Complex · June 2019

tadakatsu said:
okay then easy for beginner normal average hard experienced veryhard/legendary very experienced?

Yes if it wasn't obvious enough for you.

tadakatsu · June 2019

lol that definition does not define the difficulty in a game lol. normal is by no means the standard atleast not for any experienced player. as i said before easy is for beginner normal is for average hard is for experienced and very hard/legendary is for very experienced

Misaka_Complex · June 2019

tadakatsu said:
lol that definition does not define the difficulty in a game lol. normal is by no means the standard atleast not for any experienced player. as i said before easy is for beginner normal is for average hard is for experienced and very hard/legendary is for very experienced

You just answered your own question -> "normal is by no means the standard atleast not for any experienced player." The average/normal/standard player is not the experienced player, therefore normal is for the standard player.

tadakatsu · June 2019

easy and normal are only for people who have never played or only recently started playing lol hard is for those who have played total war alot and understand how it works and what to do veryhard/legendary is for those of us who actually want a challenge

Levi_fowl27 · June 2019

I guess I did not express myself well.
What I meant with Prestige becoming useless is that after becoming Emperor, it ceases to be relevant.

But people just because there are Three Emperors does not mean that the three have the same Prestige.

Napoleon Bonaparte has the same prestige as Charles V?
Alfonso VI of Leon and Castile... No one knows him.

Did you see? Prestige makes a difference even among emperors.
Maybe even more so in Emperors.

And Mid/Late game Prestige becomes useless.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM FOR ME!!

I KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF PRESTIGE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME!

I JUST WOULD LIKE IT IMPORTANT UNTIL THE END OF THE GAME.

I gave my idea of a possible solution, so that what I see as a waste, stop....

tadakatsu said:
also the positions you listed many of those are for dong zhou specifically well the main ones are anyway not the ones you listed below each

Chanceller, Grand Comandant, Grand Excellency, Grand Director and Grand Tutor are the normal Court Positions.

The especial positions to Gongsun Zan are "The Inspector Ones", and they substitute the Administrator Position.

In fact I used Inspector in the name of one of the positions I created, my mistake.

tadakatsu · June 2019

prestige is like the imperium mechanic in rome 2 was. it has one purpose going up the faction ranks thats all

LestaT · June 2019

What does Prestige do once you reached King rank? Does it somehow affect diplomacy, for example a minor factions may easily show favor diplomatically or other Kings have easier chance to abdicate if your orestige is higher than them?

Lahn266 · June 2019

i think if you want to make new seats for the government, they must fit the Chinese Han Dynasty history. Luckily, there are 9 important ministers in the Han government, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Ministers

Levi_fowl27 · June 2019

LestaT said:
What does Prestige do once you reached King rank? Does it somehow affect diplomacy, for example a minor factions may easily show favor diplomatically or other Kings have easier chance to abdicate if your orestige is higher than them?

That's the problem for me, once you become Emperor, Prestige serves no purpose. He does not give you any diplomacy bonuses. Nothing.
Basically Prestige only serves to increase your rank, when you reach Emperor / King, it stops counting.
Only, you continue to generate Prestige with victories and buildings... Only they are not worth anything.
Because you have nothing to do with Prestige after reaching your Highest Rank.
That's why I had the idea of changing Prestige for new Administrators positions, and Assignment available.
In Late game I always end up wanting more of them than the ones I have.

I ended up getting excited and creating fifteen intermediate positions, without need.

Lahn266 said:
i think if you want to make new seats for the government, they must fit the Chinese Han Dynasty history. Luckily, there are 9 important ministers in the Han government, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Ministers

I liked the idea.
I created these positions in a mixture of excitement and fun.
I thought it would be cool to have new posts higher than Administrator but lower than the Council and tried to stick to the mechanics of Wu Xing so prevalent in the game.

But I found your idea more interesting from a historical point of view, I sincerely think it would be easier to implement...
The problem would be precisely in the Wu Xing mechanics... Nine is not a multiple of five...
Although if you count the positions of the Council, plus the Prime Minister, plus the Nine Ministers add together fifteen positions, which fits in the Wu Xing mechanics... More or less ...

LestaT · June 2019

Levi_fowl27 said:

LestaT said:
What does Prestige do once you reached King rank? Does it somehow affect diplomacy, for example a minor factions may easily show favor diplomatically or other Kings have easier chance to abdicate if your orestige is higher than them?
That's the problem for me, once you become Emperor, Prestige serves no purpose. He does not give you any diplomacy bonuses. Nothing.
Basically Prestige only serves to increase your rank, when you reach Emperor / King, it stops counting.
Only, you continue to generate Prestige with victories and buildings... Only they are not worth anything.
Because you have nothing to do with Prestige after reaching your Highest Rank.
That's why I had the idea of changing Prestige for new Administrators positions, and Assignment available.
In Late game I always end up wanting more of them than the ones I have.

I ended up getting excited and creating fifteen intermediate positions, without need.
Lahn266 said:
i think if you want to make new seats for the government, they must fit the Chinese Han Dynasty history. Luckily, there are 9 important ministers in the Han government, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Ministers
I liked the idea.
I created these positions in a mixture of excitement and fun.
I thought it would be cool to have new posts higher than Administrator but lower than the Council and tried to stick to the mechanics of Wu Xing so prevalent in the game.

But I found your idea more interesting from a historical point of view, I sincerely think it would be easier to implement...
The problem would be precisely in the Wu Xing mechanics... Nine is not a multiple of five...
Although if you count the positions of the Council, plus the Prime Minister, plus the Nine Ministers add together fifteen positions, which fits in the Wu Xing mechanics... More or less ...

In older games, there are victory prestive condition. Maybe there'll be a new victory condition for later DLCs where prestige will be the main goal of the campaign?

Rewan · June 2019

Well tbh I believe Prestige to get to emperorship should be higher. After that point perhaps making it give a factionwide bonus might not be a bad idea, like income from all sources or replenishment.

Levi_fowl27 · June 2019

LestaT said:

Levi_fowl27 said:

LestaT said:
What does Prestige do once you reached King rank? Does it somehow affect diplomacy, for example a minor factions may easily show favor diplomatically or other Kings have easier chance to abdicate if your orestige is higher than them?
That's the problem for me, once you become Emperor, Prestige serves no purpose. He does not give you any diplomacy bonuses. Nothing.
Basically Prestige only serves to increase your rank, when you reach Emperor / King, it stops counting.
Only, you continue to generate Prestige with victories and buildings... Only they are not worth anything.
Because you have nothing to do with Prestige after reaching your Highest Rank.
That's why I had the idea of changing Prestige for new Administrators positions, and Assignment available.
In Late game I always end up wanting more of them than the ones I have.

I ended up getting excited and creating fifteen intermediate positions, without need.
Lahn266 said:
i think if you want to make new seats for the government, they must fit the Chinese Han Dynasty history. Luckily, there are 9 important ministers in the Han government, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Ministers
I liked the idea.
I created these positions in a mixture of excitement and fun.
I thought it would be cool to have new posts higher than Administrator but lower than the Council and tried to stick to the mechanics of Wu Xing so prevalent in the game.

But I found your idea more interesting from a historical point of view, I sincerely think it would be easier to implement...
The problem would be precisely in the Wu Xing mechanics... Nine is not a multiple of five...
Although if you count the positions of the Council, plus the Prime Minister, plus the Nine Ministers add together fifteen positions, which fits in the Wu Xing mechanics... More or less ...

In older games, there are victory prestive condition. Maybe there'll be a new victory condition for later DLCs where prestige will be the main goal of the campaign?

I did not know that, Three Kingdoms is my first Total War game.
While cool, and something that I would definitely try at least once, does not really make it a use for Prestige in late game.

tadakatsu · June 2019

as i said before prestige only has one purpose and thats faction rank. once you are max rank you simply dont gain prestige anymore as it caps out at the highest rank as that is the only thing its used for so not it does not become useless late game

Zofyhr · June 2019

LestaT said:
What does Prestige do once you reached King rank? Does it somehow affect diplomacy, for example a minor factions may easily show favor diplomatically or other Kings have easier chance to abdicate if your orestige is higher than them?

From all suggestions above, I think this one is the most relevant. "Prestige" as the word suppose, should give diplomacy bonus to show how people respect and admire you.

And this is not a big tweak to the game, it's a minor and relevant change.

tadakatsu · June 2019

if it made people respect and admire you it would make late game too easy instead you get diplomacy penalty the bigger you get cause you are a bigger threat but if everyone liked you then late game would be too easy

Zofyhr · June 2019

Creating minister seats would also make the game easier.
Furthermore, if gaining Prestige only came with downsides, it doesn't fit with the name. As a nation, or rather a dynasty, Prestige it's something you want. The gamedesigner surely wanted that feat as something you want as a player too.

There is already a penalty included in the game in diplomacy once you are emperor, and also a penalty when you are "big" or too expansionist.

If the game as to be harder, it shouldn't come as penalties, that is just frustrating for most of players. It should rather come from IA behaviour adjustements.

Anaztazioch · June 2019

Have to say,prestige is gained too easily. I am always 1st to be an emperor. And yeah its on legendary.
Its annoying that i have to fight every battle manually, as autoresolve kills half of my troops, where on manual i lose about a third of my infantry...

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