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Balanced factions for head to head ME campaign.

helix86helix86 Posts: 10Registered Users
edited June 14 in General Discussion
Greeting everyone, my brother and I are looking to start new H2H Mortal Empires Campaign, we have already finished 1 co-op (lizards) and 1 H2H (DE vs HE) vortex campaign, but our only problem is choosing which faction to play.

Since he likes lizards and Dark Elves we thought that we can go with some East vs West campaign where we would be far from each other for quite some time then meet up late game so we can have big fights. I played most old world factions already apart from greenskins and horde factions which I wouldn't really like to play, and I don't mind playing any of them as long as we would have even chances.

When I say balanced I mean that they would have as much equal economy and army strength as possible, we won't be fighting each other early game and will only play instead of AI from time to time (like every 5th fight) so starting conditions don't matter much to us.

Regarding all these what are Your suggestions:

1. In case he plays with Dark Elves ?
2. In case he plays with Lizardmen ?

Update:

Thanks everyone for their answers, for now we have decided to go Lizardmen vs Empire, while leaving DE vs Dwarfs option if we get bored playing this one.

We didn't want close factions because our plan was that each one of us has to conquer their side of map (east and west) before going to fight, this way we get to play with various armies when taking over AI games, also it would make for quite long campaign which we want to play over the summer.
Post edited by helix86 on

Comments

  • StephinceStephince Posts: 2,372Registered Users
  • helix86helix86 Posts: 10Registered Users
    Stephince said:

    Dwarfs

    I assume they would be even with DE since both got great income and DE have good AP units so they could fight but would Lizardmen stand a chance against Dwarfs?

    When looking at infantry Dwarfs would definitely beat Lizardmen same thing goes for ranged units, only advantage of lizardmen are their monsters which Dwarfs lack of but still Dwarfs got decent anti large as far as I know, other thing is income, would lizards be able to match dwarfs army numbers late game?
  • AnothaGitAnothaGit Posts: 157Registered Users
    The dwarves are close to Kroq-Gars start.

    If I would pick a nation to play any DE/LM I would go Empire or Brettonia.

    If you pick the brets you can crusade out to the colonies and save them (or not) if they are threatened by Kroq-Gar or TTT.

    You also have a free story...the empire of men vs the empire of delves/lizards.
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,149Registered Users
    Empire and Bretonnia should be fun matches against the lizards. They'll have an issue matching the epic economy power of slavery, so you'll have to do some precision murder to take DE on though.

    Dwarfs are definitely solidly in the DE tier of awesomeness though. I'm not sure how reasonable it is to take on any of the top tier economies with the middling ones in a strictly fair head to head though. They shouldn't be a problem for LM army wise, but that economy is definitely problematic.

    One thing you can do for the economy variation is play at maximum difficulty. Although this would be a poor choice regarding Bretonnia, hard would probably be sufficient there. At 15% upkeep per extra army, even a 50% economic advantage wouldn't give one side that much of an edge over the other.

    Do you allow diplomacy? If so, any of them should work fine. The lesser economies of Empire and Bretonnia can pull out a powerful alliance and match the DE up by keeping them distracted killing AI stacks. It's super duper easy to have a grand alliance of Empire, Dwarfs, and Bretonnia once Chaos has taken the field. You should be able to get there murdering VC too, while a DE player is still solidifying the new world.
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Posts: 2,958Registered Users
    psychoak said:

    Empire and Bretonnia should be fun matches against the lizards. They'll have an issue matching the epic economy power of slavery, so you'll have to do some precision murder to take DE on though.

    Dwarfs are definitely solidly in the DE tier of awesomeness though. I'm not sure how reasonable it is to take on any of the top tier economies with the middling ones in a strictly fair head to head though. They shouldn't be a problem for LM army wise, but that economy is definitely problematic.

    One thing you can do for the economy variation is play at maximum difficulty. Although this would be a poor choice regarding Bretonnia, hard would probably be sufficient there. At 15% upkeep per extra army, even a 50% economic advantage wouldn't give one side that much of an edge over the other.

    Do you allow diplomacy? If so, any of them should work fine. The lesser economies of Empire and Bretonnia can pull out a powerful alliance and match the DE up by keeping them distracted killing AI stacks. It's super duper easy to have a grand alliance of Empire, Dwarfs, and Bretonnia once Chaos has taken the field. You should be able to get there murdering VC too, while a DE player is still solidifying the new world.

    bret does not have supply lines

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 5,422Registered Users
    edited June 14
    My buddy and I have been talking about doing an Empire vs von Carstein campaign which I think sounds very interesting. It wouldn't take too long but obviously we'd want to not go after each other from the get go. But just the idea of doing our own "Vampire Wars" campaign sounds very intriguing.

    I think the most important thing with a Head to Head campaign is that you can have it make sense. Which is easier if it is with races that are traditionally antagonistic towards each other.

    If he plays Dark Elves I could see Norsca being an interesting opponent. But I don't really think Norsca is a healthy opponent unless he lets you beat up Archaon before you go to war with eachother. Before that Norsca is too weak. But afterwards it would be very much in keeping with the tribes of Chaos assaulting the northern borders of Naggaroth.

    If he plays Lizardmen I'd personally go with Skaven. The best one is Cult of Sotek vs Clan Pestilens but that might be too close for your tastes. But it is a huge historical rivalry and could be loads of fun. Or you could go for Hexoatl vs Pestilens. But f you're commited to East vs West then either Clan Mors or Clan Skryre. Or if you want North vs South you can go Clan Rictus vs Cult of Sotek.
    Lord of the Undermountain
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 14,665Registered Users
    If he plays Dark Elves then skill level being equal he'd utterly squash you. DE's economy is massively OP in the hands of the player.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 5,422Registered Users

    If he plays Dark Elves then skill level being equal he'd utterly squash you. DE's economy is massively OP in the hands of the player.

    Fully developed Norsca with Archaon reductions in upkeep could give Delves a run for their money I’m sure. Owning Norsca you can crank out A LOT of armies. They do suffer from the horriballz global recruitment times though.
    Lord of the Undermountain
  • Aram_theheadAram_thehead Posts: 412Registered Users
    @RikRiorik yeah but getting to that point is really difficult as Norsca. They have next to no economy and tons of enemies, Norsca might actually be the hardest faction in the game.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 5,422Registered Users

    @RikRiorik yeah but getting to that point is really difficult as Norsca. They have next to no economy and tons of enemies, Norsca might actually be the hardest faction in the game.

    Unless you look for trouble as Norsca and don’t expand you can generally avoid getting wrecked. Then just clobber whoever has taken over Norsca restructure your newly confederated realm to suit your economic and military needs, summon up Archibald and the Championns of the Gods and you’re good to go. The only problem is it takes a fair bit of time to do all that.
    Lord of the Undermountain
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,149Registered Users
    blaat said:

    psychoak said:

    Empire and Bretonnia should be fun matches against the lizards. They'll have an issue matching the epic economy power of slavery, so you'll have to do some precision murder to take DE on though.

    Dwarfs are definitely solidly in the DE tier of awesomeness though. I'm not sure how reasonable it is to take on any of the top tier economies with the middling ones in a strictly fair head to head though. They shouldn't be a problem for LM army wise, but that economy is definitely problematic.

    One thing you can do for the economy variation is play at maximum difficulty. Although this would be a poor choice regarding Bretonnia, hard would probably be sufficient there. At 15% upkeep per extra army, even a 50% economic advantage wouldn't give one side that much of an edge over the other.

    Do you allow diplomacy? If so, any of them should work fine. The lesser economies of Empire and Bretonnia can pull out a powerful alliance and match the DE up by keeping them distracted killing AI stacks. It's super duper easy to have a grand alliance of Empire, Dwarfs, and Bretonnia once Chaos has taken the field. You should be able to get there murdering VC too, while a DE player is still solidifying the new world.

    bret does not have supply lines
    Duh? I did after all recommend hard instead...
  • BoombastekBoombastek Posts: 1,764Registered Users
    RikRiorik said:

    If he plays Dark Elves then skill level being equal he'd utterly squash you. DE's economy is massively OP in the hands of the player.

    Fully developed Norsca with Archaon reductions in upkeep could give Delves a run for their money I’m sure. Owning Norsca you can crank out A LOT of armies. They do suffer from the horriballz global recruitment times though.
    Norska can take several capitals, some of this capitals gave - 1 turn in global reduce recruit.
  • endurendur Posts: 2,987Registered Users
    "Thanks everyone for their answers, for now we have decided to go Lizardmen vs Empire, while leaving DE vs Dwarfs option if we get bored playing this one."

    Both combinations sound pretty cool.

    Empire vs. Lizardmen will be neat. LM with Southlands and Lustria vs. Empire owning the old world.

    DE vs. Dwarfs will potentially be the high powered encounter -- both dwarfs and DE are in painful starting positions, but have powerful end games.
  • Aram_theheadAram_thehead Posts: 412Registered Users
    @RikRiorik so you would suggest to knock out the starting enemies (skelings) and then just chill there in the Icedrake fiord? Or should I also use Wulfrick to go around in Nordland and maybe Kislev territories to sack and raze some stuff? I imagine that Varg or other tribes will wreck me if I don't do anything. Raiding and sacking might help me build up good relationships with them.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 5,422Registered Users

    @RikRiorik so you would suggest to knock out the starting enemies (skelings) and then just chill there in the Icedrake fiord? Or should I also use Wulfrick to go around in Nordland and maybe Kislev territories to sack and raze some stuff? I imagine that Varg or other tribes will wreck me if I don't do anything. Raiding and sacking might help me build up good relationships with them.

    The second option has always treates me well. Battles and agent actions against Kislev and Nordland help with keeping the other Norscans off your back. Just don’t venture too far off unless you have some defences at your settlements in case the likes of Bretonnia come knockin’.

    I usually do some sacking/razing to build up God affinity and money whilst pursuing some monster hunts and the sword while I let the other Norscans duke it out. Don’t go tier 3 with a God before you have either all of Norsca or you are close to home though.
    Lord of the Undermountain
  • SteelRoninSteelRonin Junior Member ChilePosts: 587Registered Users
    Vampires. It is awesome to use vampires to face new world factions :D
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Posts: 2,958Registered Users
    psychoak said:

    blaat said:

    psychoak said:

    Empire and Bretonnia should be fun matches against the lizards. They'll have an issue matching the epic economy power of slavery, so you'll have to do some precision murder to take DE on though.

    Dwarfs are definitely solidly in the DE tier of awesomeness though. I'm not sure how reasonable it is to take on any of the top tier economies with the middling ones in a strictly fair head to head though. They shouldn't be a problem for LM army wise, but that economy is definitely problematic.

    One thing you can do for the economy variation is play at maximum difficulty. Although this would be a poor choice regarding Bretonnia, hard would probably be sufficient there. At 15% upkeep per extra army, even a 50% economic advantage wouldn't give one side that much of an edge over the other.

    Do you allow diplomacy? If so, any of them should work fine. The lesser economies of Empire and Bretonnia can pull out a powerful alliance and match the DE up by keeping them distracted killing AI stacks. It's super duper easy to have a grand alliance of Empire, Dwarfs, and Bretonnia once Chaos has taken the field. You should be able to get there murdering VC too, while a DE player is still solidifying the new world.

    bret does not have supply lines
    Duh? I did after all recommend hard instead...
    sorry I read your comment at first as if implying that bret had supply lines but I see what you mean now

    sorry for the mistake

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
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