Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.


How to defeat Single Entity armies in QB

WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 1,024
Lately I've been up against totally (or mostly) SE armies often enough to make it really annoying.

I've started experimenting with "balanced" builds and dropped from about rank 200 in QB to 1400. I don't really care about my QB record, but I just get frustrated.

One example would be 6 Lizardmen SEs:

Feral Carny, Lord Kroak, 2 Stegadons and 2 Bastiladons.

Another example would be HE build with 4 dragons/flying monsters and a few elite infantry units on the ground (phoenix guard) who just camp in box

VC with dragons, Mortis engines and Varghulfs etc.

I've been mostly playing as VCounts or GS.

Any hints on how to defeat these types of armies using "balanced builds" with VCounts or GS? Is it even possible?


  • hanenhanen Registered Users Posts: 415
    If you dont know its coming there is a big chance you lost at the army selection screen.
  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Registered Users Posts: 1,531
    Are you actually facing these armies often, or did you just watch Gobboking video and decided to make a post about it.

    I somewhat disagree on his statement about single entity armies being very hard to tackle with a balanced build, although I agree somewhat with his stance on having a lot of mobile skirmisher units and the act of counter picking factions.

    The issue of monsters is that they are easily surrounded, which causes leadership issues and the number of attacks they get hit by, and they are not really that efficient in killing infantry models quickly. Each attack will take out some models, but they do it a very slow rate which is why you usually combine them with infantry.

    Vampire counts might struggle a little bit, but as long you nehek your blood knights and give them time to heal back (after all single entity armies are small armies) then you should be okay.
  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 1,024
    @Infinite_Maw I did not watch Gobboking's video.

    I just faced several of these in the past 10 games or so.

    The Lizardmen army in particular is super cheesy. Basically the monsters just run around in a blob. If I try to surround, lord Kroak takes me out.

    the HE match up can be annoying as well when he brings 4 dragons and a bunch of elliryan reavers

  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Registered Users Posts: 1,531
    I double checked with gobbo kings video, and he meant that this strat was annoying for new players. He and Turin maybe able to handle these armies, but not others.

    Anyway if the lizardmen are running around in a blob then they are very prone to area of effect debuff spells, and especially the net from lore of light. Keep your skirmishers far apart from each other and then prioritise which monsters to kill (for example getting rid of the carnosaurs first means that your high elf nobles on horseback are more protected in the long term, and thus they can just wipe out say bastilidons easily). Use cheap infantry summons to block the blobs, depending on what faction you are playing as.

    Most importantly is that when a big expensive monster routes then use either cheap cavalry (dark riders), fast monsters (like chaos warhounds) or even lords/heroes (providing that they can keep up) to chase it off the battlefield so you do not let it regroup and attack again.

    Also unless your infantry is super slow, see chaos and dwarfs, then you should see Kroaks spell coming from a mile away (it is not like you have much else to focus on the battlefield anyway) and just retreat your units from the spell radius. Dragons have similar issues as well, in which you dodge any flame breaths. I don't know what else to say but micro well.
  • sandercohensandercohen Registered Users Posts: 236
    I play three or more battles every day, and I must say I rarely encounter builds with that many SE's. I am a VC main, so here are a couple of suggestions.

    1. VC against Lizardmen IF you expect a dino-heavy army:

    -Blood dragon vampire lord on horseback. Heart piercing is imperative as you can lower dino's armor, making them very susceptible to blood knights, helm of discord is OP as ever.
    -2/3 blood knights (Alternatively you can use 2-3 Varghulfs or a mix). Blood knights with blood dragon wreck feral carnosaurs, while varghulfs wreck any other dino.
    -Necro for mana battery (you really want invocations if you intend to use blood knights) and healbot.
    -Infantry core of GG. You could go cheaper with skeletons but they lose out against pretty much all lizardmen infantry
    -Perhaps a corpse cart

    You could try an airforce with zombie dragons, terrorgheists and maybe vargheists, but it's risky and much more micro-intensive.

    2. VC against HE noob/heal box
    -Manny on hellsteed with purple sun and invocation. You could opt for danse kebab for higher MA vs phoenix guard, but it's probably not worth it. Don't bother with spirit leech as Alariel will just use star or life to counter it
    -2-3 blood knights. Primary target for invocation
    -Core of GG. You could go cheaper on infantry and choose even more cavalry instead. The point really is to keep the phoenixes busy long enough with your infantry in order for your cav to cyclecharge and manny to perform his magic.
    -Necromancer healbot with forbidden rod. You really need as much WoM as possible while remaining cost effective.
    -Perhaps a direpack to chase away routing dragons.

    Do not play into your enemies strategy. Engage one side of the box with graveguard, then use your bloodknights to charge. Otherwise the AoE healing effect is just going to heal up everything. When the phoenix guard are engaging with your GG, they won't be braced against charges and you can slowly wittle away their health using cav charges. Force the box to collapse using purple son, personally I do not overcast it as I feel it's not worth it. Purple sun really is there to kill models. You want to drop the health quickly so phoenixes loses martial mastery and reduce alariels healing potential. Finally keep a 1-2 units of bloodknights in the backline in case the dragons touch down. Phoenix guards really counter blood knights, but if you manage to dictate the terms you can use your infantry to keep the phoenix busy, giving your blood knights room for fighting the dragons. Dragons aren't really that effective against BK in a grindy battle.

    Don't try to contest the sky as Alariel will just tempest your air force. Furthermore, terrorgheists are weak to fire damage and all HE dragons do fire damage. Finally, HE burst healing potential for SE's is higher so if you are forced to blob up, HE will decisively win the air battle.

    3. Greenskin against VC
    I'm not really a greenskin player, but I have been seeing giants use effectively against the counts. Problem is, if the counts go BK-heavy then you basically lost. Blood knights absolutely wreck giants, while giants have a niche vs VC against terrorgheists, varghulfs and zombie dragons.
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Registered Users Posts: 4,448
    SE will get shredded by missiles and anti-large units, for the LM one you need to focus out Jroak and just look out for his spell, if you see him casting it, but pull back( you have plenty of time) and then go back in

  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 1,024
    @sandercohen that is good advice. I think I have to get better with my micro.

  • tank3487tank3487 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,816

    Vampire counts might struggle a little bit, but as long you nehek your blood knights

    Kroak+Mazda+net=insta wipeout of Blood knights. It is very hard to use such expensive cav vs Kroak.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,848
    I think vs new LZ there’s almost nothing VC can do. It’s probably 75/25 for LZ.
  • warhammerorokabosswarhammerorokaboss Registered Users Posts: 4
    edited June 2019
    VC vs LM, VC vs HE, are very tricky.

    VC player need to bring very specific lists in both match ups.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file