Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Make your vanilla TW: WH3 race roster and main story.

rafantomasrafantomas Posts: 649Registered Users
I think the game's story will be about the final battle against a " ultimate demon god". Whoever kills the god will have to fill his sit and decide what to do with the realm. You can beat the campaign with all the previous races and new ones, when you finish it you get the result of the decisions of each race as a full motion video. Humans reign and fight each other, Orcs ensalve everyone else, and so.

The basic 4 new races:

1) Chaos Demons (Awaken by ultimate demon god)
2) Chaos Dwarves (Awaken by ultimate demon god)
3) Kislev/Araby (Decide to fight the great evil)
4) Cathay (Decide to fight the great evil)

That's my basic TW:Warhammer3 vanilla release. What's yours?

ps: Oh yeah and add the cinematics from WH1 and WH2 to the 3rd game not like with WH2 missing the opening scenes of the ME races.
«1

Comments

  • Aram_theheadAram_thehead Posts: 829Registered Users
    Here's what I would like, obviously it's not perfect and many people will dislike it, since no good faction is included.

    Race 1) Daemons of Chaos undivided: starting lord Belakor and a mortal one
    Race 2) Ogre Kingdoms (lords don't really matter in my opinion)
    Race 3) Chaos Dwarfs (lords don't really matter in my opinion)
    Race 4) Single chaos god faction composed of daemons and warriors. I hope it's Khorne, because his units look very good. Starting lords: Valkia, Skarbrand or Skulltaker (I would prefer Skarbrand)

    Story:
    As either of the chaos factions, you want to rise as the most powerful of the chaos warbands. Raze, sack and eventually you'll confront Archaon himself and will have to beat him.

    As the ogre kingdoms, you will have to expand to look for food and please the great maw. You may also decide to lend some of your armies to other factions to fight as mercenaries. You would still command these armies, but the territory you conquer with these armies will not be yours. The benefit is a fat contract, experience for the troops and loot.

    As the Chaos dwarves, you will have to capture as many slaves as possible. Your goal won't be to dominate the land, but to fuel the chaos dwarves never ending research for better weapons and technology. Basically, the chaos dwarves campaign never truly ends. Only the player knows when he's satisfied. Slave rebellions might happen from time to time and they will cripple your economy. Chaos dwarves might also get a special way of trading: sell weapons to ogres and chaos warriors. These deals will make you rich, but then these factions might use these weapons against you.

    I'm still not sure about the 4th race ot the ogre kingdoms objectives, but I'm sure CA will come up with something better than what I'm thinking :)
  • rafantomasrafantomas Posts: 649Registered Users

    Here's what I would like, obviously it's not perfect and many people will dislike it, since no good faction is included.

    Race 1) Daemons of Chaos undivided: starting lord Belakor and a mortal one
    Race 2) Ogre Kingdoms (lords don't really matter in my opinion)
    Race 3) Chaos Dwarfs (lords don't really matter in my opinion)
    Race 4) Single chaos god faction composed of daemons and warriors. I hope it's Khorne, because his units look very good. Starting lords: Valkia, Skarbrand or Skulltaker (I would prefer Skarbrand)

    Story:
    As either of the chaos factions, you want to rise as the most powerful of the chaos warbands. Raze, sack and eventually you'll confront Archaon himself and will have to beat him.

    As the ogre kingdoms, you will have to expand to look for food and please the great maw. You may also decide to lend some of your armies to other factions to fight as mercenaries. You would still command these armies, but the territory you conquer with these armies will not be yours. The benefit is a fat contract, experience for the troops and loot.

    As the Chaos dwarves, you will have to capture as many slaves as possible. Your goal won't be to dominate the land, but to fuel the chaos dwarves never ending research for better weapons and technology. Basically, the chaos dwarves campaign never truly ends. Only the player knows when he's satisfied. Slave rebellions might happen from time to time and they will cripple your economy. Chaos dwarves might also get a special way of trading: sell weapons to ogres and chaos warriors. These deals will make you rich, but then these factions might use these weapons against you.

    I'm still not sure about the 4th race ot the ogre kingdoms objectives, but I'm sure CA will come up with something better than what I'm thinking :)

    I like it! No "good guys" tho. :blush:
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,220Registered Users
    The basic 8 LL's
    1 Khorne DoC
    1 Bird DoC
    1 Nurgle DoC
    1 Pervert DoC
    2 Chaos Dwarfs
    2 Orges


    the deamons of chaos try to establish permanent links to the warp in the dark lands,
    Chaos Dwarfs want to build a deamon god machine
    Orges want to eat everything

    In comes Nagsh with a undead elbow from the sky
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Posts: 1,430Registered Users
    Okay here is how I would end Warhammer Total War, as well as an option to pretty much give some conclusion to the world.

    So the order races playable would be
    • Empire
    • Dwarfs
    • Kislev
    Then the chaos races are
    • Chaos Warriors
    • Daemons of Chaos
    • Chaos Dwarfs
    Then of course there are vampire counts, greenskins etc. Lets us just stick to this roster for now. The entire campaign is based around the polar gates, and basically as one of factions you have to enhance the north or south pole to such degree that the vortex cannot suck everything out faster than it is coming out.

    Basically the chaos races have one ending, and after the campaign does not continue afterwards. It is the end times ending you are expecting, but maybe with slight edits favouring a certain god depending on the faction and lord choice.

    However as the order races, your job is to use your own magic and resources to essentially close the chaos gates. Not only does this cause the chaos gods to lose complete contact with their followers, but utterly wipes out the winds of magic. This, naturally, completely changes the world. The beastmen and the most vile mutants are on the brink of extinction. The northman eventually integrate and make peace with their southern neighbours. The colleges of magic are gone, but the Empire is still excelling engineering to the point where you see artwork of a new Emperor getting into something that looks like a early 1900s automobile (with a bit of a fantasy look) with onlookers wearing more "modern" clothing. There are still wars and threats, as you see artwork of night goblins fighting skaven while some skavenslave are trying to retrieve oil from some well as they have exhausted any workable warpstone resources. The final screenshot shows some figure overlooking a hill showing how everything has changed from the way buildings have been constructed and even aircraft in the sky, and that this is now an age of mortals and order.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 5,245Registered Users
    1. Daemons of Khorne
    2. Chaos Dwarfs
    3. Ogre Kingdoms
    4. Kislev

    Story:
    His Majesty the Crown Prince Imrik of the House Caledor, the Lord of the Dragons declares war on Chaos. Dragons and Daemons smash. Rawrraaawwwrr rawrr rawwwrr rrraaaarr rrr r rr r wrrr raaaaarrr wrrrarrr.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Posts: 1,430Registered Users
    edited June 16
    What I should also mention is that the reason for my polar gate expanding/closing concept is because I feel like the daemons of chaos need to feel motivated to actually get off their butts and do something while breaking a sweat.

    Usually if their armies are defeated, it doesn't really matter because they will just return again. Playing the daemons or other chaos forces, you need to feel threatened in the campaign to the point all will be lost should the daemons be defeated in this war (i.e the last war of chaos).
  • GollummypreciousGollummyprecious Posts: 395Registered Users
    1. Deamons of Chaos
    2. Chaos Dwarfs
    3. Ogre Kingdoms
    4. Nagash

    Story:
    The Winds of Magic are blowing, since the rising of the Everchosen Archaon, Deamons of Chaos have made their presence felt in the mortal plan more often. The world saw also the rise of an ancient artefact, the Heart of Chaos, an unbelievable source of power that thought being lost in time and space. And even if the Chaos Gods are keen to unite through Archaon's Iron Fist, their thirst for power is only matched by their ongoing internal rivalries. The one who would claim the artefact would surely take a decisive advantage in the eternal wars raging within the realms of Chaos...

    But the appeal of the Heart of Chaos was not just felt by the Chaos Gods, the High Priests of Hashut, through visions given by their master, the Father of Darkness, saw in their flamed fueled grim dreams a world ruled by the Dawi-Zharr covered in black smoke and ashes, where they could take their final revenge upon their weak treacherous cousins of the Karaz Ankor. For that vision to come to reality, they need a massive source of power, materialized in an ancient artefact.

    The Ogre Kingdoms felt also the perverse attraction of this artefact. In their own way. They recently felt an hunger, much larger than the normal. And an appeal towards something, like the Great Maw but different. The great Slaughtermasters prophecized a new golden age for the Ogres, an era of everlasting conquests and feasts, a new migration starts, the Ogres, guided by their hunger and the appeal of this new "Maw", marches onwards to their destiny, to consume all and everything in their path, as is the will of the Great Maw.

    Finally, the servants of Nagash are trying once more to re-awaken their Supreme Leader, and hearing about this source of power, they seek to take it to themselves and consuming it to finally complete the great Ritual that would sign the return of the Arch Necromancer and seel the doom of all livings. They just have to wait , for their power is not as big to risk an outward confrontation, they will wait and see the other nations clashes and slaughters themselves. Once the concurrents will be tired by their battles, the Servants of the Night will just have to rise the dead and make a feast for the crows. The victory is at hand. The Necromancer will make his return and fufill his destiny, dominate the world, and all will serve him eternally, either as loyal allies or as mindless puppets.


    Ok so thats my story. At least it makes some sense because everyone has an objective and a credible reason to beat each other to death.
    Sanity is a curse, madness offers the only freedom...
  • xBlood_RavenxBlood_Raven Posts: 246Registered Users
    Major races must always come first but we're in a strange scenario where we have only three left (a Warhammer first). I can't see Monogods happening as CA mentioned that plans changed when they mentioned the leak. This quote also strongly indicates the TT army book route.

    "Also to say, Chaos Warriors aren’t the same as Chaos Daemons; we are treating them as separate, just like the tabletop army books. Later on in the trilogy, you will be exposed to the full horrors of the Realm of Chaos."

    With this, I guess the four cores will be:

    1. Daemons of Chaos.
    2. Ogre Kingdoms.
    3. Chaos Dwarfs.
    4. Cathay/Kislev (I'm guessing Cathay due to geography as each game must be a standalone so no reusing content and that Three Kingdoms was a large success so the Chinese market has become very important).

    The story is what other users are saying-Godhood. Each of these races and other characters all have connections to Godhood.

    The Daemons of Chaos have the Chaos Gods. The Ogre Kingdoms have the Great Maw. The Chaos Dwarfs have Hashut. Cathay the the divine Dragon Emperor and a "multitudinous" number of Gods. Kislev also has Ursun and the Tzar has some divine connection to the 'The Ancient Widow' or the 'land'. Other characters include Nagash who is incredibly powerful and wants Godhood and lastly Be'lakor, who wants to become the fifth Chaos God.

    The End Times might be a theme of Game 3 so more God connections such as Sigmar and Gilles le Breton (immense religious figures but you understand my meaning). Maybe Game 3's campaign is trying to reach a Godhood bar in which your God wins. I would take the Northern Pole and Southern Pole Warp Gates into the campaign as well.
  • Federykx99Federykx99 Posts: 562Registered Users
    @xBlood_Raven yep, I agree.

    In my mind Kislev and Cathay are a must add either through DLC or core but they shouldn't trump the Armybook races for core spots. Ogres, Daemons and Dawi Zharr need to be in the base game.
  • xBlood_RavenxBlood_Raven Posts: 246Registered Users

    @xBlood_Raven yep, I agree.

    In my mind Kislev and Cathay are a must add either through DLC or core but they shouldn't trump the Armybook races for core spots. Ogres, Daemons and Dawi Zharr need to be in the base game.

    I have other reasons why they must be core as well.

    1.Human or Order races have been the most popular in each game. Having a race that is familiar to the player is crucial to not only the story but gameplay as the player will learn faster and have a deeper connection.

    2.These four cores are spread across the map nicely and have very unique playstyles and tactics. This gets the most race, tactical and geographical variety for the game on launch (I'm hoping the Game 3 standalone map is the rest of the world so Nippon, Southern Chaos Wastes, etc-Mortal Empires only needs to get the Mountains of Mourn due to technical constraints).

    3.Cathay or Kislev is also excellent as they can be used as a launch hype race-same as the Skaven were in Game 2.

    4.It's easier to develop Battle and Campaign mechanics for the Daemons of Chaos than Monogods as Daemons alone are of the same type and the same special rules while Mortals are different to Daemons in many aspects.

    I and others can likely think of other reasons for this setup but these are ones that mainly come to mind.
  • ErathilErathil Posts: 552Registered Users
    There's no ultimate daemon god in Warhammer. You have the big four, and their rivalry is key to the setting.

    But... we do have a necromancer, so bloated with power and souls that he's effectively a god. And very, very bad things happen if he's allowed to fully manifest in the world.

    I suspect Nagash will be the big focus of the expansion, with an end-game crisis that prompts endless hordes of empowered undead to spill out from Nagishazzar in waves.

    I'm also confident the new map will reach from the World's Edge Mountains and their surroundings over to the Mountains of Mourn, with the Great Maw as its eastern-most landmark. That sets us up for:

    1) Kislev
    2) Chaos Dwarfs
    3) Ogre Kingdoms
    4) Either Daemons of Chaos or a wholly reworked Legions of Chaos, depending on how development goes

    Point four is the stickler for me. Daemons of Chaos are the obvious solution, but it's hard to translate their nature from the lore and table-top onto a 4X game like this. Daemons don't occupy territory in the mortal realm. They don't even march armies across the land. Instead, they just materialize where the winds of magic let them. I could see them merged into a re-designed Warriors of Chaos army, but I know that will enrage a vocal component of these forums.
  • WaaaghCheifWaaaghCheif Junior Member Posts: 411Registered Users
    Chaos Dwarfs
    Faction: Zharr-Naggrund (Chaos Dwarves) - Legendary Lord: Astragoth Ironhand, high priest of Hashut

    Narrative/Campaign: enslave the Dark Lands, grow Hashuts influence maybe spark his ascension.

    Faction: Black Fortress/Legion of Azgorh(Chaos Dwarves) - Legendary Lord:Drazhoath the Ashen, commander of the Black Fortress/Legion of Azgorh

    Narrative/Campaign:Exiled long ago from the capital, he seeks to return. His focus will be defending the Chaos Dwarfs dominion, enslaving troops and then ultimately return to Zharr Naggrund to conquer it.

    Chaos Daemons: Destroy the world.

    Ogre Kingdoms/Goldtooth Tribe - Greasus Goldtooth, can't think of any narrative for him, but he loves to bribe people to create confusion. I would see him getting a manipulation mechanic like Cao Cao but with gold.

    Ogre Kingdoms Subfaction - Skrag the Slaughterer, fighting to please his god, The Great Maw.

    The fourth race is a coins toss between Kislev and Cathay.
  • WyvaxWyvax Posts: 1,912Registered Users
    Starting races are Kislev, Daemons of Chaos, Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarfs.

    With the Vortex fluctuating on the other side of the world, the winds of magic are going haywire as they pour into the north and the Darklands, each race senses an opportunity to be had in this. The Daemonic hordes can amass in numbers so great as to flood the lands in an unending tide of gibbering monsters and twisting corruption, consuming the mortal plane. The Dawi Zhar have gathered their daemonsmiths, with the presence of so much power and daemonic energy they can bind enough of them to their unholy machinery to power their growing empire to allow for truly unlimited power and machines of war so terrible and destructive that they were hitherto impossible to create; once harnessed the industrious spread of Zhar Naggrund over the land will be unstoppable. The Ogre Kingdoms for their part heed the call of their Slaughtermasters and Butchers; the Great Maw grows ever hungrier and eagerly laps up the excess magic that flows near the fleshy black hole. A great and massive feast must be prepared, a sacrifice of unparalleled proportions to the Great Maw, then it will grow and consume the world's magic and the very gates of Chaos themselves. As for Kislev, the very power of the Ruinous Powers can be turned against them, a ritual can be devised to cloak the entirety of the Chaos wastes in a permanent storm of howling ice, one so lethal as to forever ensnare any daemon that dares set foot from the polar gate into an icy prison for all eternity.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed

    It's T. rex, not T-Rex, you filthy casuals.
  • FakeEmperorFakeEmperor Posts: 592Registered Users
    Story: THE END TIMES are coming, baby!!
    And you are the bad guys!!!

    Starting races:
    1.Deamons
    2.Chaos stunties
    3.Ogres
    4.Kislev

    Set during Sigmar's blood timeline, the forces of Chaos (deamons, Chaos Warriors, Ch. dwarfs) are gathering, ready to strike the old world, and burn it to ashes. Meanwhile, in the east, The Graet Maw grows hungry, feeding itself on the Lands, and pushing Ogres down the mountains to collect sacrifices to satisfy their god.
    Through the roads of Kislev, pyres burn loyal fellows of the tzarina, during the Crusade of Volkmar. But the Grand Theogonist is not the worst thing to be worried about...
    In a solitary mountain in the far south of the World Edge, eyes like green flames are lit and cast upon the Battle of the Gods, waiting for the moment to consume them all....


  • endurendur Posts: 3,033Registered Users
    1) Chaos Demons
    2) Chaos Dwarves
    3) Dogs of War (Hired to fight the forces of chaos)
    4) Ogre Kingdoms (Just want to eat some food that is not tainted by chaos)
  • TorakTorak Posts: 769Registered Users
    Chaos demons
    Chaos dwarves
    Ogre kingdoms

    UNDEAD LEGIONS. NAGASH FTW!
    Team skaven
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Posts: 516Registered Users
    I'll let others duke it out for Race picks, but to me, Total Warhammer 3 should have unique primary campaign mechanics:

    Either Stop or Assist Chaos taking over the world. Obviously for Chaos Daemons (And any Chaos-aligned faction, such as Warriors of Chaos, Norsca and Beastmen) this would be the latter category. Everyone else would be focused on permanently sealing Chaos away. Once completed, Chaos never again appears as an enemy. If playing a Chaotic faction, letting Chaos infect the world becomes the win condition.

    Either Stop or Assist Nagash's resurrection. Nagash would not be a playable character in the game, but rather an obnoxiously powerful boss character and target for everyone to cooperate against. Most races would be interested in halting his resurrection, and the first to actually succeed at doing so would get a bonus of some kind. Vampire Counts, Barrow Legion and Vampire Coast would be trying to return him to life. If playing an Undead faction, having Nagash become a god becomes the win condition.

    Once the above two tasks have been completed (And not necessarily by the player themselves), they can pursue their own individual win condition (Whatever it may be). Doing so automatically puts them at war with anyone not of their race.
  • TorakTorak Posts: 769Registered Users

    I'll let others duke it out for Race picks, but to me, Total Warhammer 3 should have unique primary campaign mechanics:

    Either Stop or Assist Chaos taking over the world. Obviously for Chaos Daemons (And any Chaos-aligned faction, such as Warriors of Chaos, Norsca and Beastmen) this would be the latter category. Everyone else would be focused on permanently sealing Chaos away. Once completed, Chaos never again appears as an enemy. If playing a Chaotic faction, letting Chaos infect the world becomes the win condition.

    Either Stop or Assist Nagash's resurrection. Nagash would not be a playable character in the game, but rather an obnoxiously powerful boss character and target for everyone to cooperate against. Most races would be interested in halting his resurrection, and the first to actually succeed at doing so would get a bonus of some kind. Vampire Counts, Barrow Legion and Vampire Coast would be trying to return him to life. If playing an Undead faction, having Nagash become a god becomes the win condition.

    Once the above two tasks have been completed (And not necessarily by the player themselves), they can pursue their own individual win condition (Whatever it may be). Doing so automatically puts them at war with anyone not of their race.

    If we get to play as kroak & demons we should be able to play as nagash !either have nagash be playable or don't bother putting him in!
    Team skaven
  • Federykx99Federykx99 Posts: 562Registered Users
    @RomeoReject two points
    1. I see your Nagash idea working all the same if he is a playable faction and I think it's better to leave the option open
    2. Probavly you just forgot, but Arkhan would be trying to resurrect the N boy as well
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Posts: 516Registered Users
    edited June 18
    Torak said:

    I'll let others duke it out for Race picks, but to me, Total Warhammer 3 should have unique primary campaign mechanics:

    Either Stop or Assist Chaos taking over the world. Obviously for Chaos Daemons (And any Chaos-aligned faction, such as Warriors of Chaos, Norsca and Beastmen) this would be the latter category. Everyone else would be focused on permanently sealing Chaos away. Once completed, Chaos never again appears as an enemy. If playing a Chaotic faction, letting Chaos infect the world becomes the win condition.

    Either Stop or Assist Nagash's resurrection. Nagash would not be a playable character in the game, but rather an obnoxiously powerful boss character and target for everyone to cooperate against. Most races would be interested in halting his resurrection, and the first to actually succeed at doing so would get a bonus of some kind. Vampire Counts, Barrow Legion and Vampire Coast would be trying to return him to life. If playing an Undead faction, having Nagash become a god becomes the win condition.

    Once the above two tasks have been completed (And not necessarily by the player themselves), they can pursue their own individual win condition (Whatever it may be). Doing so automatically puts them at war with anyone not of their race.

    If we get to play as kroak & demons we should be able to play as nagash !either have nagash be playable or don't bother putting him in!
    Nagash was so ludicrously powerful we had to create the second most powerful weapon in the entire Warhammer universe just to injure him. And he quite literally becomes a god in the end. A fully empowered Nagash isn't like facing a Greater Daemon - it's like facing a Chaos God. Balance wouldn't just go out the window, it would go out the window and through the next several houses.

    @RomeoReject two points
    1. I see your Nagash idea working all the same if he is a playable faction and I think it's better to leave the option open
    2. Probavly you just forgot, but Arkhan would be trying to resurrect the N boy as well

    1) Could be, but I just can't see any possible way of making Nagash even remotely balanced as a LL. Only thing I could think of is a Nagash faction that doesn't star him as a LL, but rather has his Mortarchs instead (Though that would mean Arkhan would have to get yanked away from the Tomb Kings). Personal taste, mind you.
    2) I totally meant to toss him in, can't believe I missed him! He's the most loyal of them all.
  • TorakTorak Posts: 769Registered Users

    Torak said:

    I'll let others duke it out for Race picks, but to me, Total Warhammer 3 should have unique primary campaign mechanics:

    Either Stop or Assist Chaos taking over the world. Obviously for Chaos Daemons (And any Chaos-aligned faction, such as Warriors of Chaos, Norsca and Beastmen) this would be the latter category. Everyone else would be focused on permanently sealing Chaos away. Once completed, Chaos never again appears as an enemy. If playing a Chaotic faction, letting Chaos infect the world becomes the win condition.

    Either Stop or Assist Nagash's resurrection. Nagash would not be a playable character in the game, but rather an obnoxiously powerful boss character and target for everyone to cooperate against. Most races would be interested in halting his resurrection, and the first to actually succeed at doing so would get a bonus of some kind. Vampire Counts, Barrow Legion and Vampire Coast would be trying to return him to life. If playing an Undead faction, having Nagash become a god becomes the win condition.

    Once the above two tasks have been completed (And not necessarily by the player themselves), they can pursue their own individual win condition (Whatever it may be). Doing so automatically puts them at war with anyone not of their race.

    If we get to play as kroak & demons we should be able to play as nagash !either have nagash be playable or don't bother putting him in!
    Nagash was so ludicrously powerful we had to create the second most powerful weapon in the entire Warhammer universe just to injure him. And he quite literally becomes a god in the end. A fully empowered Nagash isn't like facing a Greater Daemon - it's like facing a Chaos God. Balance wouldn't just go out the window, it would go out the window and through the next several houses.

    @RomeoReject two points
    1. I see your Nagash idea working all the same if he is a playable faction and I think it's better to leave the option open
    2. Probavly you just forgot, but Arkhan would be trying to resurrect the N boy as well

    1) Could be, but I just can't see any possible way of making Nagash even remotely balanced as a LL. Only thing I could think of is a Nagash faction that doesn't star him as a LL, but rather has his Mortarchs instead (Though that would mean Arkhan would have to get yanked away from the Tomb Kings). Personal taste, mind you.
    2) I totally meant to toss him in, can't believe I missed him! He's the most loyal of them all.
    So don't have him be a god then just have him like he was before he got killed by the fellblade & again kroak is playable archaon is playable any ll bieng too OP is moot now kroak is faaaar more powerful than nagash. & arvhson beat nagash also. Your argument doesn t hold up
    Team skaven
  • FakeEmperorFakeEmperor Posts: 592Registered Users
    Nagash too OP for the game makes no sense... He got rules for the tabletop, i don't see a reason to state that he is too powerful for the video game.
    He was not too powerful to be playable on the TT, still his lore is exactly the same for both TT & TW, so why not?
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Posts: 516Registered Users
    Torak said:

    Torak said:

    I'll let others duke it out for Race picks, but to me, Total Warhammer 3 should have unique primary campaign mechanics:

    Either Stop or Assist Chaos taking over the world. Obviously for Chaos Daemons (And any Chaos-aligned faction, such as Warriors of Chaos, Norsca and Beastmen) this would be the latter category. Everyone else would be focused on permanently sealing Chaos away. Once completed, Chaos never again appears as an enemy. If playing a Chaotic faction, letting Chaos infect the world becomes the win condition.

    Either Stop or Assist Nagash's resurrection. Nagash would not be a playable character in the game, but rather an obnoxiously powerful boss character and target for everyone to cooperate against. Most races would be interested in halting his resurrection, and the first to actually succeed at doing so would get a bonus of some kind. Vampire Counts, Barrow Legion and Vampire Coast would be trying to return him to life. If playing an Undead faction, having Nagash become a god becomes the win condition.

    Once the above two tasks have been completed (And not necessarily by the player themselves), they can pursue their own individual win condition (Whatever it may be). Doing so automatically puts them at war with anyone not of their race.

    If we get to play as kroak & demons we should be able to play as nagash !either have nagash be playable or don't bother putting him in!
    Nagash was so ludicrously powerful we had to create the second most powerful weapon in the entire Warhammer universe just to injure him. And he quite literally becomes a god in the end. A fully empowered Nagash isn't like facing a Greater Daemon - it's like facing a Chaos God. Balance wouldn't just go out the window, it would go out the window and through the next several houses.

    @RomeoReject two points
    1. I see your Nagash idea working all the same if he is a playable faction and I think it's better to leave the option open
    2. Probavly you just forgot, but Arkhan would be trying to resurrect the N boy as well

    1) Could be, but I just can't see any possible way of making Nagash even remotely balanced as a LL. Only thing I could think of is a Nagash faction that doesn't star him as a LL, but rather has his Mortarchs instead (Though that would mean Arkhan would have to get yanked away from the Tomb Kings). Personal taste, mind you.
    2) I totally meant to toss him in, can't believe I missed him! He's the most loyal of them all.
    So don't have him be a god then just have him like he was before he got killed by the fellblade & again kroak is playable archaon is playable any ll bieng too OP is moot now kroak is faaaar more powerful than nagash. & arvhson beat nagash also. Your argument doesn t hold up
    Right, but a character that - again - required the second most powerful weapon ever created might not be a particularly fun imbalance. When you can literally just roll with your Lord to take on entire armies, the game becomes pointless.

    For your comparison to Kroak, Nagash is more powerful in literally every single stat on the table top. He has a higher Wizard rating, higher Ward save, and higher base stats. Archaon is also weaker across the board.

    Nagash too OP for the game makes no sense... He got rules for the tabletop, i don't see a reason to state that he is too powerful for the video game.
    He was not too powerful to be playable on the TT, still his lore is exactly the same for both TT & TW, so why not?

    You're kinda glossing over the fact that he was the single most expensive anything in Warhammer Fantasy Tabletop, at 1000 points, something we can't really emulate in Total Warhammer. To do an Upkeep Cost that was matched would basically cripple the player's economy from turn one.

    Again, Nagash as a playable Lord pretty much takes balance and punts it for everyone else involved. He's the equivalent of a 40K Titan being a playable Lord.
  • TorakTorak Posts: 769Registered Users

    Torak said:

    Torak said:

    I'll let others duke it out for Race picks, but to me, Total Warhammer 3 should have unique primary campaign mechanics:

    Either Stop or Assist Chaos taking over the world. Obviously for Chaos Daemons (And any Chaos-aligned faction, such as Warriors of Chaos, Norsca and Beastmen) this would be the latter category. Everyone else would be focused on permanently sealing Chaos away. Once completed, Chaos never again appears as an enemy. If playing a Chaotic faction, letting Chaos infect the world becomes the win condition.

    Either Stop or Assist Nagash's resurrection. Nagash would not be a playable character in the game, but rather an obnoxiously powerful boss character and target for everyone to cooperate against. Most races would be interested in halting his resurrection, and the first to actually succeed at doing so would get a bonus of some kind. Vampire Counts, Barrow Legion and Vampire Coast would be trying to return him to life. If playing an Undead faction, having Nagash become a god becomes the win condition.

    Once the above two tasks have been completed (And not necessarily by the player themselves), they can pursue their own individual win condition (Whatever it may be). Doing so automatically puts them at war with anyone not of their race.

    If we get to play as kroak & demons we should be able to play as nagash !either have nagash be playable or don't bother putting him in!
    Nagash was so ludicrously powerful we had to create the second most powerful weapon in the entire Warhammer universe just to injure him. And he quite literally becomes a god in the end. A fully empowered Nagash isn't like facing a Greater Daemon - it's like facing a Chaos God. Balance wouldn't just go out the window, it would go out the window and through the next several houses.

    @RomeoReject two points
    1. I see your Nagash idea working all the same if he is a playable faction and I think it's better to leave the option open
    2. Probavly you just forgot, but Arkhan would be trying to resurrect the N boy as well

    1) Could be, but I just can't see any possible way of making Nagash even remotely balanced as a LL. Only thing I could think of is a Nagash faction that doesn't star him as a LL, but rather has his Mortarchs instead (Though that would mean Arkhan would have to get yanked away from the Tomb Kings). Personal taste, mind you.
    2) I totally meant to toss him in, can't believe I missed him! He's the most loyal of them all.
    So don't have him be a god then just have him like he was before he got killed by the fellblade & again kroak is playable archaon is playable any ll bieng too OP is moot now kroak is faaaar more powerful than nagash. & arvhson beat nagash also. Your argument doesn t hold up
    Right, but a character that - again - required the second most powerful weapon ever created might not be a particularly fun imbalance. When you can literally just roll with your Lord to take on entire armies, the game becomes pointless.

    For your comparison to Kroak, Nagash is more powerful in literally every single stat on the table top. He has a higher Wizard rating, higher Ward save, and higher base stats. Archaon is also weaker across the board.

    Nagash too OP for the game makes no sense... He got rules for the tabletop, i don't see a reason to state that he is too powerful for the video game.
    He was not too powerful to be playable on the TT, still his lore is exactly the same for both TT & TW, so why not?

    You're kinda glossing over the fact that he was the single most expensive anything in Warhammer Fantasy Tabletop, at 1000 points, something we can't really emulate in Total Warhammer. To do an Upkeep Cost that was matched would basically cripple the player's economy from turn one.

    Again, Nagash as a playable Lord pretty much takes balance and punts it for everyone else involved. He's the equivalent of a 40K Titan being a playable Lord.
    CA DOESN'T HAS NOT always followed tabletop rules so if they need to make nagash exspensive but not game breaking exspensive they can. Same thing with his stats this is a VIDEO GAME not the tabletop. So they can make changes with GW approval
    Team skaven
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Posts: 516Registered Users
    Torak said:

    Torak said:

    Torak said:

    I'll let others duke it out for Race picks, but to me, Total Warhammer 3 should have unique primary campaign mechanics:

    Either Stop or Assist Chaos taking over the world. Obviously for Chaos Daemons (And any Chaos-aligned faction, such as Warriors of Chaos, Norsca and Beastmen) this would be the latter category. Everyone else would be focused on permanently sealing Chaos away. Once completed, Chaos never again appears as an enemy. If playing a Chaotic faction, letting Chaos infect the world becomes the win condition.

    Either Stop or Assist Nagash's resurrection. Nagash would not be a playable character in the game, but rather an obnoxiously powerful boss character and target for everyone to cooperate against. Most races would be interested in halting his resurrection, and the first to actually succeed at doing so would get a bonus of some kind. Vampire Counts, Barrow Legion and Vampire Coast would be trying to return him to life. If playing an Undead faction, having Nagash become a god becomes the win condition.

    Once the above two tasks have been completed (And not necessarily by the player themselves), they can pursue their own individual win condition (Whatever it may be). Doing so automatically puts them at war with anyone not of their race.

    If we get to play as kroak & demons we should be able to play as nagash !either have nagash be playable or don't bother putting him in!
    Nagash was so ludicrously powerful we had to create the second most powerful weapon in the entire Warhammer universe just to injure him. And he quite literally becomes a god in the end. A fully empowered Nagash isn't like facing a Greater Daemon - it's like facing a Chaos God. Balance wouldn't just go out the window, it would go out the window and through the next several houses.

    @RomeoReject two points
    1. I see your Nagash idea working all the same if he is a playable faction and I think it's better to leave the option open
    2. Probavly you just forgot, but Arkhan would be trying to resurrect the N boy as well

    1) Could be, but I just can't see any possible way of making Nagash even remotely balanced as a LL. Only thing I could think of is a Nagash faction that doesn't star him as a LL, but rather has his Mortarchs instead (Though that would mean Arkhan would have to get yanked away from the Tomb Kings). Personal taste, mind you.
    2) I totally meant to toss him in, can't believe I missed him! He's the most loyal of them all.
    So don't have him be a god then just have him like he was before he got killed by the fellblade & again kroak is playable archaon is playable any ll bieng too OP is moot now kroak is faaaar more powerful than nagash. & arvhson beat nagash also. Your argument doesn t hold up
    Right, but a character that - again - required the second most powerful weapon ever created might not be a particularly fun imbalance. When you can literally just roll with your Lord to take on entire armies, the game becomes pointless.

    For your comparison to Kroak, Nagash is more powerful in literally every single stat on the table top. He has a higher Wizard rating, higher Ward save, and higher base stats. Archaon is also weaker across the board.

    Nagash too OP for the game makes no sense... He got rules for the tabletop, i don't see a reason to state that he is too powerful for the video game.
    He was not too powerful to be playable on the TT, still his lore is exactly the same for both TT & TW, so why not?

    You're kinda glossing over the fact that he was the single most expensive anything in Warhammer Fantasy Tabletop, at 1000 points, something we can't really emulate in Total Warhammer. To do an Upkeep Cost that was matched would basically cripple the player's economy from turn one.

    Again, Nagash as a playable Lord pretty much takes balance and punts it for everyone else involved. He's the equivalent of a 40K Titan being a playable Lord.
    CA DOESN'T HAS NOT always followed tabletop rules so if they need to make nagash exspensive but not game breaking exspensive they can. Same thing with his stats this is a VIDEO GAME not the tabletop. So they can make changes with GW approval
    So, you want Nagash, but just want him to not be anything like Nagash? I get everyone has their own opinion, but man, I would absolutely hate that.
  • TorakTorak Posts: 769Registered Users

    Torak said:

    Torak said:

    Torak said:

    I'll let others duke it out for Race picks, but to me, Total Warhammer 3 should have unique primary campaign mechanics:

    Either Stop or Assist Chaos taking over the world. Obviously for Chaos Daemons (And any Chaos-aligned faction, such as Warriors of Chaos, Norsca and Beastmen) this would be the latter category. Everyone else would be focused on permanently sealing Chaos away. Once completed, Chaos never again appears as an enemy. If playing a Chaotic faction, letting Chaos infect the world becomes the win condition.

    Either Stop or Assist Nagash's resurrection. Nagash would not be a playable character in the game, but rather an obnoxiously powerful boss character and target for everyone to cooperate against. Most races would be interested in halting his resurrection, and the first to actually succeed at doing so would get a bonus of some kind. Vampire Counts, Barrow Legion and Vampire Coast would be trying to return him to life. If playing an Undead faction, having Nagash become a god becomes the win condition.

    Once the above two tasks have been completed (And not necessarily by the player themselves), they can pursue their own individual win condition (Whatever it may be). Doing so automatically puts them at war with anyone not of their race.

    If we get to play as kroak & demons we should be able to play as nagash !either have nagash be playable or don't bother putting him in!
    Nagash was so ludicrously powerful we had to create the second most powerful weapon in the entire Warhammer universe just to injure him. And he quite literally becomes a god in the end. A fully empowered Nagash isn't like facing a Greater Daemon - it's like facing a Chaos God. Balance wouldn't just go out the window, it would go out the window and through the next several houses.

    @RomeoReject two points
    1. I see your Nagash idea working all the same if he is a playable faction and I think it's better to leave the option open
    2. Probavly you just forgot, but Arkhan would be trying to resurrect the N boy as well

    1) Could be, but I just can't see any possible way of making Nagash even remotely balanced as a LL. Only thing I could think of is a Nagash faction that doesn't star him as a LL, but rather has his Mortarchs instead (Though that would mean Arkhan would have to get yanked away from the Tomb Kings). Personal taste, mind you.
    2) I totally meant to toss him in, can't believe I missed him! He's the most loyal of them all.
    So don't have him be a god then just have him like he was before he got killed by the fellblade & again kroak is playable archaon is playable any ll bieng too OP is moot now kroak is faaaar more powerful than nagash. & arvhson beat nagash also. Your argument doesn t hold up
    Right, but a character that - again - required the second most powerful weapon ever created might not be a particularly fun imbalance. When you can literally just roll with your Lord to take on entire armies, the game becomes pointless.

    For your comparison to Kroak, Nagash is more powerful in literally every single stat on the table top. He has a higher Wizard rating, higher Ward save, and higher base stats. Archaon is also weaker across the board.

    Nagash too OP for the game makes no sense... He got rules for the tabletop, i don't see a reason to state that he is too powerful for the video game.
    He was not too powerful to be playable on the TT, still his lore is exactly the same for both TT & TW, so why not?

    You're kinda glossing over the fact that he was the single most expensive anything in Warhammer Fantasy Tabletop, at 1000 points, something we can't really emulate in Total Warhammer. To do an Upkeep Cost that was matched would basically cripple the player's economy from turn one.

    Again, Nagash as a playable Lord pretty much takes balance and punts it for everyone else involved. He's the equivalent of a 40K Titan being a playable Lord.
    CA DOESN'T HAS NOT always followed tabletop rules so if they need to make nagash exspensive but not game breaking exspensive they can. Same thing with his stats this is a VIDEO GAME not the tabletop. So they can make changes with GW approval
    So, you want Nagash, but just want him to not be anything like Nagash? I get everyone has their own opinion, but man, I would absolutely hate that.
    What would u do then to make nagash playable. If u add something that SHOULD be playable & isn't. Like todbringer as an example . Then WHY even bother putting that character in the game!!!!

    Nagash is the only other big bad of the setting besides the forces of chaos

    If we can play as archaon (the literal antichrist & bringer of the apcolypse) & literal demons let us play as nagash!!. Balance concerns no longer matter because of stuff like kroak & doomrockets

    This upcoming game is the last time will get to add anything n thier obviously gunna go crazy with the chaos stuff n every other faction n thing in game 3 so why is nagash such a instant no from some ppl. Nagash was still awsome n crazy in endtimes n guess what he got beat! Same thing can happen in tw w3
    Team skaven
  • FakeEmperorFakeEmperor Posts: 592Registered Users
    @RomeoReject
    Exactly, he was expensive in TT, he will be expensive in TW. I will gladly cripple my economy if this means to field Nagash from turn 1... Damn, i'm playing Arkhan right now and he start with +45 gold income per turn... Gimme Nagash and 0 income and i'll make the money.

    Most of my concerns are about Nagash's proper rapresentation, 'cause what is supposed to be OP in TT, like Mazda or Grimgor, are not so good in TW.
    Let's see what happens after the Slann and GS update...

    Also OP Nagash as an AI opponent is ok, because this trilogy really needs an endgame that keeps the campaign interesting past turn 100 - 150, because is pretty obviuos that Archaon alone isn't enough...
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 2,819Registered Users
    Daemons of Chaos
    Chaos Dwarfs
    Dogs of War
    Kislev

    The narrative conceit is that Nagash has begun a great ritual that will bring about his awakening at Nagashizzar. As a result, tides of dark magic roll out from his fortress and sweep over the lands, causing undead armies to rise up all over the world. The eyes of every nation turn to the Dark Lands, where the dread Necromancer is building his strength. For the noble and wise, he must be stopped and his domain of foul secrets destroyed. For the evil or foolish, his power is seen as a weapon to be claimed. Either way, armies gather to march upon Nagashizzar, but all must beat out the others in the rush to dethrone the King of the Dead!

    For the Daemons, Nagash's rising threatens their plans. Nagash would bring about a world of the dead. With no one to worship and empower the Chaos Gods the Great Game would surely fall apart. The Daemons come together in an Undivided host to swarm out of the Chaos wastes and defeat this threat to all the Chaos Gods. Of course, there will be plenty of bickering among the forces of the different Gods along the way.

    For the Chaos Dwarfs, Nagash rests on their distant borders and is a more direct threat to them than anyone. They will topple this dead king and claim his magical secret for their own. Perhaps, within his vaults, there is even a secret that will break the Curse of Stone...

    For Kislev, the undead have been rising in the lands of the Ancient Widow. The Hag Mothers and Ice Witches have determined this threat lies to the south, in the Dark Lands, and so the armies of Kislev march through the High Pass, claiming the plateau of the Great Skull Land as a beach head. From here they will seek out the source of this undying danger and destroy it.

    For the other nations of the Old World, they are too embroiled in their own affairs to send armies to defeat the Great Necromancer. Instead, they funnel gold into the coffers of mercenary armies, and send the Dogs of War marching east along the Ivory Road to defeat Nagash. And if there's some coin to be had in looting Nagashizzar, why, they're amenable to that proposal...

    First DLC would be the Ogre Kingdoms. The Fire Mouth is erupting again, signaling the begging of the next great Ogre migration! The tribes are forced west, into the Dark Lands, where they stumble into a great war against an undead king. Laughing, they happily sell their services to every side of the war. Any side who can feed them has their loyalty, but an ogre's hunger is prodigious and food eventually runs out...

    FLC (or maybe a pre-order) would be a playable Nagash, limited to Mortal Empires. You start at Nagashizzar with just Nagash, in a weakened state and with access only to skeletons and zombies. In order to empower Nagash and gain access to a full roster you must conquer key locations, including the Black Pyramid of Nagash, Khemri, Castle Drakenhof, and others. As you progress Nagash's power increases and his hybrid roster of different undead units fills in. In the early stages of the campaign you must rely on Nagash (who even weakened is incredibly powerful) and his many summoning spells, as well as finding battlefield markers which will allow you to raise more powerful kinds of undead.

    Rest of the DLC is Lord Packs.
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Posts: 695Registered Users
    Hm, I would go with following:

    Cores:
    DoC, OK, CD and Cathay.

    Story:
    The Great Maw stirs in its slumber. The painful feeling of hunger has overcome it and now it needs to be fed. BRING MORE SOULS!
    The rewards will be huge.
    For DoC nothing less then a third, stable portal to the realms of Chaos.
    For OK a blessing to the entire race, a neverending banquet for dead Ogres who have proven their worth. (Or something like that)
    For CD power to finally take revenge on the Dwarfs of the World Edge Mountains, letting Hashut entering this world.
    For Cathay a never reached, golden age of their empire.
    "In brightest day, in blackest night,
    No faction shall escape my sight.
    Let those who think deniers are right
    Beware my power--Faction Lantern's light!"

    Everythime a faction/race is excluded from the trilogy, these games become smaller. RIP Araby and others.
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Posts: 516Registered Users
    Torak said:

    Torak said:

    Torak said:

    Torak said:

    I'll let others duke it out for Race picks, but to me, Total Warhammer 3 should have unique primary campaign mechanics:

    Either Stop or Assist Chaos taking over the world. Obviously for Chaos Daemons (And any Chaos-aligned faction, such as Warriors of Chaos, Norsca and Beastmen) this would be the latter category. Everyone else would be focused on permanently sealing Chaos away. Once completed, Chaos never again appears as an enemy. If playing a Chaotic faction, letting Chaos infect the world becomes the win condition.

    Either Stop or Assist Nagash's resurrection. Nagash would not be a playable character in the game, but rather an obnoxiously powerful boss character and target for everyone to cooperate against. Most races would be interested in halting his resurrection, and the first to actually succeed at doing so would get a bonus of some kind. Vampire Counts, Barrow Legion and Vampire Coast would be trying to return him to life. If playing an Undead faction, having Nagash become a god becomes the win condition.

    Once the above two tasks have been completed (And not necessarily by the player themselves), they can pursue their own individual win condition (Whatever it may be). Doing so automatically puts them at war with anyone not of their race.

    If we get to play as kroak & demons we should be able to play as nagash !either have nagash be playable or don't bother putting him in!
    Nagash was so ludicrously powerful we had to create the second most powerful weapon in the entire Warhammer universe just to injure him. And he quite literally becomes a god in the end. A fully empowered Nagash isn't like facing a Greater Daemon - it's like facing a Chaos God. Balance wouldn't just go out the window, it would go out the window and through the next several houses.

    @RomeoReject two points
    1. I see your Nagash idea working all the same if he is a playable faction and I think it's better to leave the option open
    2. Probavly you just forgot, but Arkhan would be trying to resurrect the N boy as well

    1) Could be, but I just can't see any possible way of making Nagash even remotely balanced as a LL. Only thing I could think of is a Nagash faction that doesn't star him as a LL, but rather has his Mortarchs instead (Though that would mean Arkhan would have to get yanked away from the Tomb Kings). Personal taste, mind you.
    2) I totally meant to toss him in, can't believe I missed him! He's the most loyal of them all.
    So don't have him be a god then just have him like he was before he got killed by the fellblade & again kroak is playable archaon is playable any ll bieng too OP is moot now kroak is faaaar more powerful than nagash. & arvhson beat nagash also. Your argument doesn t hold up
    Right, but a character that - again - required the second most powerful weapon ever created might not be a particularly fun imbalance. When you can literally just roll with your Lord to take on entire armies, the game becomes pointless.

    For your comparison to Kroak, Nagash is more powerful in literally every single stat on the table top. He has a higher Wizard rating, higher Ward save, and higher base stats. Archaon is also weaker across the board.

    Nagash too OP for the game makes no sense... He got rules for the tabletop, i don't see a reason to state that he is too powerful for the video game.
    He was not too powerful to be playable on the TT, still his lore is exactly the same for both TT & TW, so why not?

    You're kinda glossing over the fact that he was the single most expensive anything in Warhammer Fantasy Tabletop, at 1000 points, something we can't really emulate in Total Warhammer. To do an Upkeep Cost that was matched would basically cripple the player's economy from turn one.

    Again, Nagash as a playable Lord pretty much takes balance and punts it for everyone else involved. He's the equivalent of a 40K Titan being a playable Lord.
    CA DOESN'T HAS NOT always followed tabletop rules so if they need to make nagash exspensive but not game breaking exspensive they can. Same thing with his stats this is a VIDEO GAME not the tabletop. So they can make changes with GW approval
    So, you want Nagash, but just want him to not be anything like Nagash? I get everyone has their own opinion, but man, I would absolutely hate that.
    What would u do then to make nagash playable. If u add something that SHOULD be playable & isn't. Like todbringer as an example . Then WHY even bother putting that character in the game!!!!

    Nagash is the only other big bad of the setting besides the forces of chaos

    If we can play as archaon (the literal antichrist & bringer of the apcolypse) & literal demons let us play as nagash!!. Balance concerns no longer matter because of stuff like kroak & doomrockets

    This upcoming game is the last time will get to add anything n thier obviously gunna go crazy with the chaos stuff n every other faction n thing in game 3 so why is nagash such a instant no from some ppl. Nagash was still awsome n crazy in endtimes n guess what he got beat! Same thing can happen in tw w3
    As I said above - I wouldn't make him playable, I'd have him be the same kind of threat that the final Merwyrm is for Vampire Coast and what Chaos is supposed to be: A big enough threat that the other races quit screwing around and work together to deal with the bigger threat.

    @RomeoReject
    Exactly, he was expensive in TT, he will be expensive in TW. I will gladly cripple my economy if this means to field Nagash from turn 1... Damn, i'm playing Arkhan right now and he start with +45 gold income per turn... Gimme Nagash and 0 income and i'll make the money.

    Most of my concerns are about Nagash's proper rapresentation, 'cause what is supposed to be OP in TT, like Mazda or Grimgor, are not so good in TW.
    Let's see what happens after the Slann and GS update...

    Also OP Nagash as an AI opponent is ok, because this trilogy really needs an endgame that keeps the campaign interesting past turn 100 - 150, because is pretty obviuos that Archaon alone isn't enough...

    See, my concern is coming from the opposite direction: If they make Nagash accurate to Tabletop will have a unit that's more powerful than Kroak, from turn one, making literally every battle completely pointless. Your whole army can be disbanded, because you can just use Nagash to curbstomp anything you come across.
Sign In or Register to comment.