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skaven being able to ally with chaos

monkeybotmonkeybot Posts: 21Registered Users
dose anyone else think that skaven should be able to ally with chaos after the Archaon has spawned in the mortal empires campaign. it make complete sense to the lore would be a fun for a gameplay stand point and it would help them out when being controlled by the AI because skaven just gets wiped out very quickly including the 4 LL. it will also make the chaos invasion a little more balanced the fact that clan moulder can then occupy the ruins left by the chaos.

in my head this just makes complete sense.
1. it will give another boost in power for the skaven AI which they really need it
2. it will allow factions like the dawi and the empire to actually feel threatened by the skaven instead of feeling like a pre Norsca DLC marauder spam.
3. skaven should feel like they are everywhere and this simple change could help fix that

this is just a suggestion but I think would be really healthy for the game

Comments

  • BrutalbunnyBrutalbunny Junior Member Posts: 101Registered Users
    Not sure how it would make sence lorewise. They are not allies to chaos just their own separate evil faction.

    Regarding the gameplay skaven would need the boost in power before chaos invasion and to be honest all those points can be fixed mods
  • monkeybotmonkeybot Posts: 21Registered Users

    They are not allies to chaos just their own separate evil faction.

    ok fair enough but they are never at war with each other, if anything they help each other out so why is war forced and locked when the invasion comes you don't force Norsca into war with chaos so why skaven

  • FossowayFossoway Posts: 2,225Registered Users
    Are they really forced into a war? Normally they should be just like the Beastmen: have a good relationship with Chaos, but be able to decide to join them, ignore them or declare war on them. That would be the most loreful situation.
  • monkeybotmonkeybot Posts: 21Registered Users
    Fossoway said:

    Are they really forced into a war? Normally they should be just like the Beastmen: have a good relationship with Chaos, but be able to decide to join them, ignore them or declare war on them. That would be the most loreful situation.

    that's what I mean. you are able to ally with chaos on the 1st wave, which I was just doing in my clan Mors campaign but as soon as the Archaon wave spawned my alliance was broken and forced straight in to war it just feels like such a kick in the teeth is its such are hard faction to ally with in the 1st place
  • Aram_theheadAram_thehead Posts: 829Registered Users
    Yeah I think Skaven should be able to ally with chaos. When you play as chaos, you can ally with moulder.
  • EdhwenEdhwen Posts: 168Registered Users
    Skaven have their own agenda. The alliance with chaos is only for the evil generalization of end times.
  • TotalBorehammerTotalBorehammer Posts: 856Registered Users
    edited June 19

    Not sure how it would make sence lorewise. They are not allies to chaos just their own separate evil faction.

    Regarding the gameplay skaven would need the boost in power before chaos invasion and to be honest all those points can be fixed mods

    You clearly do not know your lore so well. Lorefully, Skaven ARE creatures born of Chaos (like Beastmen and Chaos Dwarves) and Skaven can and have made pacts with Chaos, even if they are temporary and mostly borne of self-interest or fear. Their God, The Horned One, is Himself a very powerful Chaos Demon that after the End Times is even elevated to the pantheon of the Chaos Gods (effectively replacing the hole left by Slaanesh's disappearence), so clearly they have a lot in common, such as a deep hatred and bitter resentment of the good and orderly races.

    Chaos Dwarves are similar in that they are also creatures of Chaos, worship a powerful Chaos Demon, and have often aided Chaos with their demon-smith technology.

    They should therefore be allowed, lorefully, to ally with Chaos.
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  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Posts: 438Registered Users
    If Skaven can win something allying with other race (or using them until they stop being usefull) they will do it. So yes, Skaven should be hable ti ally with chaos.
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  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 2,168Registered Users
    The skaven would only use chaos to get more power and than backstab them, dont know how to display that ingame.

    The player would just ally with them and win.
  • monkeybotmonkeybot Posts: 21Registered Users

    The skaven would only use chaos to get more power and than backstab them, dont know how to display that ingame.

    The player would just ally with them and win.

    1.that's the same for every ally they make
    2.the there are so many strong good guys in this patch of the game with the 2 of the strongest being empire and britonia chaos is just not a problem for the AI to deal with anymore Norsca is normally very week by the time Chaos spawrns as it cant even hold its own territory and the beastmen are normally dead.

    if you add skaven to that chaos end game ally group then the war might be a bit more even
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 3,008Registered Users
    Yes.

    Now, that said. Skaven didn't like Norsca, Beastmen, Warriors of Chaos, or even the Daemons of Chaos(unless their own variant). Until the agonizing and painful writing of End Times most Skaven regarded the WoC as ultimately a threat and at best a tool. And often a nonissue. Since each big invasion ultimately got crushed but there was no reason to go out of their way to see those invasions succeed either. Just as likely to destroy a Beastman group for food, a magic item they might have, or whatever.

    However, the important thing is Skaven are still willing to work with them to fuel their own purposes. They don't care whom they work with. They'd make a deal with anyone to forward their goals even if willing to backstab them later. WoC, DoC, Beastmen, and Norsemen are at least willing to talk to them. With Order races it was simply that Skaven are usually kill on sight. But didn't stop the Skaven from covertly manipulating them anyways.
  • KillertutKillertut Posts: 10Registered Users
    as chaos i would not want to ally with skaven
  • monkeybotmonkeybot Posts: 21Registered Users
    Killertut said:

    as chaos i would not want to ally with skaven

    if you play chaos you are able to ally with any skaven faction. you just cant the other way round
  • Wargol5Wargol5 Posts: 1,263Registered Users

    Not sure how it would make sence lorewise. They are not allies to chaos just their own separate evil faction.

    Regarding the gameplay skaven would need the boost in power before chaos invasion and to be honest all those points can be fixed mods

    You clearly do not know your lore so well. Lorefully, Skaven ARE creatures born of Chaos (like Beastmen and Chaos Dwarves) and Skaven can and have made pacts with Chaos, even if they are temporary and mostly borne of self-interest or fear. Their God, The Horned One, is Himself a very powerful Chaos Demon that after the End Times is even elevated to the pantheon of the Chaos Gods (effectively replacing the hole left by Slaanesh's disappearence), so clearly they have a lot in common, such as a deep hatred and bitter resentment of the good and orderly races.

    Chaos Dwarves are similar in that they are also creatures of Chaos, worship a powerful Chaos Demon, and have often aided Chaos with their demon-smith technology.

    They should therefore be allowed, lorefully, to ally with Chaos.
    Dude, skaven can't even ally properly with themselves :grimace:
  • JadawinKhanidiJadawinKhanidi Posts: 883Registered Users
    I've often been allied with Skaven factions in my campaigns. Oddly, the ugly rats generally made for good and reliable allies.

    When I played Khemri, I allied with Clan Mors, although I eventually betrayed them. When playing Malekith, I allied with Clan Rictus. As Chaos, I informally allied with Clan Moulder, letting them (and Crooked Moon) resettle the lands I razed. As Norsca, I started to develop good relations with Clan Moulder too, but they were wiped out early by Kraka Drak or Wintertooth.
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