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DoW units that were left on the Drawing Board

Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users
This is just some idle speculation to pass the time. I think DoW's prospects are pretty low at this point, but what's the harm in speculating about units that'll never come (besides even more disappointment when they inevitably don't show up)?

So a recent thread sent me back to look up DoW regiments and I stumbled back across the 6th edition WH army books which listed DoW units as Rare choices in the army list. There's a few regiments which are mentioned in those blurbs which were never actually implemented, so the door is kind of wide open to imagine what they might have looked like. For reference, here are the sources for what I'm talking about:



With that said, here are some ideas on what these units could be;

Celestial Dragon Monks (From HE army book)
This is probably an early reference to Cathay, so they'd likely be themed along those lines. Maybe they could be a unit with a bound spell from the Lore of Heavens (hence "celestial"), or perhaps they're just warrior monks like Shaolin Monks in the real world.

Ludwig's Wondrous Grenadiers (From Dwarf army book)
Ludwig's name suggests an Imperial origin, so they could be something along the lines of dismounted Grenadier Outriders. There's also a blurb from the DoW army book that could be used to augment them; Leonardo's Sphere of Alchemy. This was basically just a bomb that he could throw, but I see so many other uses for it. They're called the Woundrous Grenadiers, so perhaps they could have an ammo toggle so they could throw smoke grenades to impede the enemy's vision or flash bangs to stun them, hence their "Wondrous" reputation.

Gorganash's Blood Drinkers (From DE army book)
Gorganash sounds like a Vampire name and they're called the Blood Drinkers, so they're probably a unit of Vampires in some capacity. They'd probably need to be distinct from Blood Knights and Depth Guard, so maybe they could be a unit of Strigoi Vampires as monstrous infantry.

Breed of Nightgar (From BM army book)
This one is a bit vexing. It comes from the BM army book (the references above usually suggest units that would be thematic for the army book race) so they're probably based on a "destruction" race, "breed" suggests an animal or beast theme, and Nightgar certainly sounds Beastmen-ish. Beyond that though, there's no other indication for what they might be. What do you think they are?

Night Stalkers of Kathandol (From LM army book)
Again, another vexing name. It comes from the LM book, so they're probably a unit from an "order" race or at most "unaligned." "Kathandol" might be a play on Kathmandu in Nepal, so maybe they're an Ogre unit from WH's "Not-Himalayas"? Or maybe they're another LM-based unit like a unit of Chameleon Skinks or something. I'd be interested to hear other interpretations

Silmaneth's Shadow Host (From GS army book)
Silmaneth certainly sounds like an Elf name, yet they come from the GS book so perhaps they're a DE-based unit. "Shadow Host" suggest they're probably a Shade/Shadow Warrior-like unit as sneaky skirmishers.

The Lost Kindred (From WE army book)
This is pretty clearly WE regiment due to the use of the word "Kindred." Maybe this unit is a reference to the Wood Elves who live in Laurelorn Forest.

Giant Pygmies of Lemuria (From OK army book)
Wouldn't Giant Pygmies just be like, average sized people? In any case, the name is probably a bit too outdated for our time so it might not be worth speculating on. On the other hand, in our world Lemuria is a legendary place that supposedly resides in the Indian or Pacific Ocean, not unlike the legends of Atlantis. So the unit might be some kind of "Lost World" type thing.
Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

Comments

  • Maxy22Maxy22 Posts: 1Registered Users
    How much time you passed at the end?
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USAPosts: 5,559Registered Users
    The Lost Kindred are actually mentioned in the 4th edition Wood Elves Army book on page 13. I'll try and break them down in bullet points:

    - They were Asrai who lived among the glades of Wythel trees.
    - They focused their entire lives and industry upon the Wythel trees.
    - A blight affected the trees and they began to dwindle for unknown reasons.
    - Despite their best efforts they could not get the trees to germinate.
    - After much study and attempts at trying to figure out the problem they discovered that it had something to do with magic deep below the ground.
    - Despite their best efforts they couldn't find a way to deal with the magic.
    - Unable to restore their lands they sent mages to find new sources of Wythel trees.
    - After years of searching by war hawk one of the mages finally returned with the location of another grove of Wythel trees.
    - With a new grove far away from Athel Loren to provide them with the trees they coveted they left the forest.
    - The entire Kindred traveled so far away that Athel Loren lost contact with them (remember this is 4th edition no world roots) and they became lost to their kin in Athel Loren.
    - Over the years since their separation stories of members of the Lost Kindred moving about and being seen by agents of Athel Loren have been told but no one knows exactly where they have settled. All that is known is that they are supposed to be somewhere over the Grey Mountains and far beyond.


    Well that is pretty much all the information I know of on them.
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USAPosts: 5,559Registered Users
    Okay, in addition to the post I made and edited, which then vanished for the time being I have found who Scarloc was in the 4th edition Wood Elves Army book, page 77 as well. Despite being from the Lost Kindred he lead a group of Scouts that had good relations with Bretonnia and was often times charged with escorting friends of the Asrai to through the forest to the King's Glade. Other bands of Lost Kindred also exist in other forests and provide him with information about the world abroad unknown to those who live in those lands. He had a special rule that when he loosed one of his enchanted arrows (Hail of Doom Arrow) it split into 3D6 arrow in flight. Roll for each arrow to hit normally using Scarloc's BS (which was 5 in case you are wondering). The arrows were magical and str 4 (he could only use it once per battle.
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 3,193Registered Users
    Celestial Dragon Monks (From HE army book)

    I don't know much about giving them light since the Celestial part is more just after their dragon emperor, I feel like they were likely more like traditional monks. So unarmored hand to hand combat. Maybe some of the style weapons like hooked swords as options. Maybe some tricky ability like dodge. Staggering effects for enemies or the like.

    Ludwig's Wondrous Grenadiers (From Dwarf army book)

    I don't disagree these are probably just grenadiers, so you know, they throw bombs. They could option things like the ball of alchemy so like orb throwers. But hey, you are right, they had wonderous in the title and GW did like unique random rules.

    Gorganash's Blood Drinkers (From DE army book)

    Yes, could be a Vampire thing but.. also could very well be an Ogre thing. They after all, do eat men and they do like names that also sound like that. Hence Golfag and the like. So they're all about ripping your head off and eating you in battle to give those proper fear effects. Har har. But, sadly, a lot of truly epic names for Vampire Count things often just ment. You're still just a vampire.

    Breed of Nightgar (From BM army book)

    I thought about this one a lot. Since yes, it was in the BM book and certainly could be a BM unit but I dunno. Could be particularly ugly strigoi, or other vampiric monstrosity. There is also the potential is some twisted norscan entity or intelligent chaos spawn. Since they are described as only the most blood thirsty, they could be the worst. Or ya know, Dark Elf carp.

    Night Stalkers of Kathandol (From LM army book)

    This is one that really gives such little information. Since it could be any number of stealthy, ranger, or assassin style units. And while it's in the LM book it might still be broad. So could be another LM unit. Could be some Amazons with pipe darts. Some just really give no hints or push other than the type. But odds are they are stealthy so have some kind of vanguard deployment or hide in sight.

    Silmaneth's Shadow Host (From GS army book)

    Really couldn't think of anything else than what you said. It just feels elf up front and sounds like something they'd call themselves. Possibly some exiled elf group again, or ones gone rogue. As it seems that was definitely the elves theme at times.


    The Lost Kindred (From WE army book)


    Definitely wood elves, it's just what forest might they be lost in. Might be sporting a different nature theme. Or from a branch that died and they couldn't easily get home.

    Giant Pygmies of Lemuria (From OK army book)

    I think it is what it is. We know what pygmies were Warhammer and it's probably a super sized one that's ogre sized or something along those lines. But yeah.. it's as usual from a different time and one that I definitely think they'd just leave buried.
  • PaulHPaulH Posts: 1,332Registered Users
    Im pretty sure the Lost Kindred are based on the Kindred of Wythel who left Athel Loren when the last of the wythel trees died so they went abroad to find them elsewhere.
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USAPosts: 5,559Registered Users
    PaulH said:

    Im pretty sure the Lost Kindred are based on the Kindred of Wythel who left Athel Loren when the last of the wythel trees died so they went abroad to find them elsewhere.

    This is correct. Should my post ever show back up from me being punished for editing it, I broken down the story from the 4th edition wood elf army book.
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users
    Erminaz said:

    PaulH said:

    Im pretty sure the Lost Kindred are based on the Kindred of Wythel who left Athel Loren when the last of the wythel trees died so they went abroad to find them elsewhere.

    This is correct. Should my post ever show back up from me being punished for editing it, I broken down the story from the 4th edition wood elf army book.
    I hate when that happens.
    Maxy22 said:

    How much time you passed at the end?

    What?
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,076Registered Users
    edited June 20
    These are pretty fascinating. I especially like the Dragon Monks and the Grenadiers. Night Stalkers of Kathandol also seem like they could very easily be interpreted to be a unit of naga from Khuresh. If you really wanted to you could probably do the same with Gorganash's Blood Drinkers, as the naga are also noted for drinking blood.

    That said a lot of this reminds me of why I find these army lists for DoW and Kislev very frustrating. Every edition usually added something new, either entirely new factions like Ogres or Tomb Kings, or entirely new units to existing factions, like Dragon Ogres or Skycutters. GW, for all its faults, was not afraid to add to its fluff if they though coming up with some cool lore would sell units.

    Of course, DoW and Kislev and Araby were never given the same degree of focus as the others. They lack this degree of innovation, with some exceptions. I find I seize on those exceptions the most when reading about these armies, as they're the most unique and novel parts of the factions. Djinn, Birdmen of Catrazza, Bear Cavalry, these things really stand out and give you a taste of flavor for the factions and can let you briefly think past the limits of the rest of the roster.

    The DoW are an especially excellent example, and some of these units you've posted definitely remind me of this. Because they were originally intended to supplement existing armies, not stand uniquely on their own, GW mostly limited themselves to the parameters of what was already known. So you get RoRs of Slayers, or Undead, or even Greenskins, but the truly exotic options are few and far between. You get glimpses of what these factions could have been if they ever got a true 7th Edition Army Book, but never the whole picture.

    Attempts to expand on these themes are usually derided as fanfiction, and fairly so. I've seen a lot of fan rosters for these armies around the internet and those that aren't timidly sticking to what's known (even moreso that GW ever did) tend to provide the most dull and uninspired additions that you can imagine. It's a pity, because I think what Kislev, DoW, and others need is more imagination, not less, but imagination tempered by good taste and a respect for the setting and its themes.

    I suspect it's true that many of us are more attached to the idea of these factions based on those glimpses of promise, rather than their material reality.
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Posts: 2,488Registered Users
    edited June 20
    That's where the Giant Pygmy reference was! I knew I heard of that though I thought it was in reference to the OTHER random lost continent in Warhammer, Mythical Lumbria.

    IRL Lemuria was just supposed to be a land bridge between India and Madagascar to explain why there are lemurs in both places...


    Very interesting post @Ol_Nessie
  • Federykx99Federykx99 Posts: 562Registered Users
    I might be in the minority, but I am almost convinced DoW will make it in the game, be it in game 2 or 3.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,076Registered Users

    I might be in the minority, but I am almost convinced DoW will make it in the game, be it in game 2 or 3.

    I think they will too, I just question the shape they'll take.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users
    @Draculasaurus Well said, but I'd still play the hell out of DoW if all they came with were units from their official sources and units sold as part of their range of miniatures. Though you're absolutely right about GW continuing to innovate throughout the editions. The hard part about doing it for DoW specifically though is that, even if they had continued to be developed and supported as a full race after 6th edition, anything cool or flashy that GW might have given them would probably have just been shipped off to another race instead. In fact, GW created an entire race in 6th edition from just a few Ogre models in the DoW and Empire army lists from 5th.

    CA's done a nice job so far with races that weren't booked in 8th edition; Bretonnia, Norsca, and Vampire Coast all have great rosters that are on par with the rosters of the fully supported races. Bretonnia got Hippogryph Knights for example despite never having a unit entry or Hippo Knights miniatures. So what are the "Hippogryph Knights" for DoW?

    There's only a few directions they can go that make sense in that regard. They could try for something that's Tilean in origin, but there's not much real historical or even in-universe material to build off of. They could pull something from minor races like Albion or Amazons and make a unit that wouldn't have a home in any of the Big 16 otherwise. But then, like the Ogres they risk losing that unique quality to a brand new race since the more they develop from those areas the more a separate race becomes likely.

    It's a tricky issue and I'm not sure what the answer is. It's kind of a shame that the Empire got to have all the cool "Humans in Fantasy" tropes; they're religious zealots, they're ingenious engineers, they're proud warriors, they're comprehensive magicians, and they're almost as "beastmaster" with their Demigryphs as Bretonnia is with their Pegasi and Hippogryphs. There are few places to go without having overlap in themes and focus.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,076Registered Users
    Ol_Nessie said:

    @Draculasaurus Well said, but I'd still play the hell out of DoW if all they came with were units from their official sources and units sold as part of their range of miniatures. Though you're absolutely right about GW continuing to innovate throughout the editions. The hard part about doing it for DoW specifically though is that, even if they had continued to be developed and supported as a full race after 6th edition, anything cool or flashy that GW might have given them would probably have just been shipped off to another race instead. In fact, GW created an entire race in 6th edition from just a few Ogre models in the DoW and Empire army lists from 5th.

    CA's done a nice job so far with races that weren't booked in 8th edition; Bretonnia, Norsca, and Vampire Coast all have great rosters that are on par with the rosters of the fully supported races. Bretonnia got Hippogryph Knights for example despite never having a unit entry or Hippo Knights miniatures. So what are the "Hippogryph Knights" for DoW?

    There's only a few directions they can go that make sense in that regard. They could try for something that's Tilean in origin, but there's not much real historical or even in-universe material to build off of. They could pull something from minor races like Albion or Amazons and make a unit that wouldn't have a home in any of the Big 16 otherwise. But then, like the Ogres they risk losing that unique quality to a brand new race since the more they develop from those areas the more a separate race becomes likely.

    It's a tricky issue and I'm not sure what the answer is. It's kind of a shame that the Empire got to have all the cool "Humans in Fantasy" tropes; they're religious zealots, they're ingenious engineers, they're proud warriors, they're comprehensive magicians, and they're almost as "beastmaster" with their Demigryphs as Bretonnia is with their Pegasi and Hippogryphs. There are few places to go without having overlap in themes and focus.

    There are already existing overlaps in themes and focus among races, to my mind. Bretonnia and the High Elves have a lot of overlap, for example, to say nothing of the various Celtic influences between Bretonnia and the Wood Elves. I think it could be done, and GW probably wouldn't have restrained themselves to what was already in world had they chosen to do it; if the handful of Ogre units in the DoW could lead them to creating tons of prehistoric cave beasts and more in the Ogre Kingdoms book, then an expanded DoW in general could give us all kinds of wonders.

    But I'm not going to go back over past debates about where CA or GW could have pulled ideas from for the DoW, or spitball new unit ideas. It's all fanfic at the end of the day, and my waxing on about it doesn't bring it into reality.

    Suffice to say that if a DoW faction emerged that was full of units like the Galloper Guns, Birdmen of Catrazza, Alchemical Grenadiers, Snakemen of Khuresh Mercenaries, units that you can't get anywhere else? That I would buy. If it's a lot of units that are relatively interchangeable with those of other factions, or are just lacking in uniqueness or personality? That I would skip.

    I also suspect a lot of people would skip it if that were the case, and if we never get the DoW from CA I would guess this would be a significant reason why: because there wasn't enough canon material for them to use and they either didn't feel confident enough to create their own material or GW wouldn't allow it.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 3,193Registered Users
    @Draculasaurus

    I both agree and disagree, at base they're already worthy to me and I suspect a lot. Which you can say for every army. There are a lot of people who never play Greenskins or Bretonnia, are bored with any kind of elf, don't play Skaven, and even incoming game three will never touch the Ogre Kingdoms or Daemons of Chaos. It's just if there are enough. And I certainly think if you get a campaign pack that is in quality equal to the Tomb Kings you'd simply make your sell then and there. Look how many people grouse about the Vampire Coast, me included, but you can't deny that it didn't make its sells. Even with lots of people here and Reddit that profess to have avoided buying it(not me). They said they were happy with the response. Essentially means $$ in their eyes. That's all it has to meet, enough for profit. And that's ignoring the very theme of mercenary which like pirates is what a awful lot of media are already based around. It's a concept that sells. Maybe not to you, but to plenty of others.

    But they could be better, and a lot of what you said could have been said about the Vampire Coast. In fact it was said when people, including me, said they were able to be a race. Not enough units, just the Vampire Counts, can only be a faction, reuses assets, and rebuffed people who even cited things like the Necrofex Collossus because it came from expanded books. Yet they did, they added plenty of flair to the reused units, pulled from expanded content, made content where they needed, and dug into pretty obscure and even commercial failures. As Dreadfleet was a dismal failure in sales and reception.

    But speculation is all you have on a forum. That's the fun part. But it is safe to say if they did the DoW they would likely include most if not all of the book, their white dwarf items, probably the largest bucket load of lore, some crazy mechanic to try and simulate the mercenary edge and I think Tilean trade. And yeah, I fully expect them to dive into things like this above. Because they have a guy from GW, and they have GW itself to lean on. To pull from. To get just a smidge crazier. Because in the end, the DoW didn't get to expand like the rest of the armies from their cancellation.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,076Registered Users
    Nyxilis said:

    @Draculasaurus

    I both agree and disagree, at base they're already worthy to me and I suspect a lot. Which you can say for every army. There are a lot of people who never play Greenskins or Bretonnia, are bored with any kind of elf, don't play Skaven, and even incoming game three will never touch the Ogre Kingdoms or Daemons of Chaos. It's just if there are enough. And I certainly think if you get a campaign pack that is in quality equal to the Tomb Kings you'd simply make your sell then and there. Look how many people grouse about the Vampire Coast, me included, but you can't deny that it didn't make its sells. Even with lots of people here and Reddit that profess to have avoided buying it(not me). They said they were happy with the response. Essentially means $$ in their eyes. That's all it has to meet, enough for profit. And that's ignoring the very theme of mercenary which like pirates is what a awful lot of media are already based around. It's a concept that sells. Maybe not to you, but to plenty of others.

    But they could be better, and a lot of what you said could have been said about the Vampire Coast. In fact it was said when people, including me, said they were able to be a race. Not enough units, just the Vampire Counts, can only be a faction, reuses assets, and rebuffed people who even cited things like the Necrofex Collossus because it came from expanded books. Yet they did, they added plenty of flair to the reused units, pulled from expanded content, made content where they needed, and dug into pretty obscure and even commercial failures. As Dreadfleet was a dismal failure in sales and reception.

    But speculation is all you have on a forum. That's the fun part. But it is safe to say if they did the DoW they would likely include most if not all of the book, their white dwarf items, probably the largest bucket load of lore, some crazy mechanic to try and simulate the mercenary edge and I think Tilean trade. And yeah, I fully expect them to dive into things like this above. Because they have a guy from GW, and they have GW itself to lean on. To pull from. To get just a smidge crazier. Because in the end, the DoW didn't get to expand like the rest of the armies from their cancellation.

    We'll see, but I have to say, I never had doubts about the Vampire Coast. The theme is and was solid, distinct enough from the other undead factions and with lots of unique units from the lore to draw upon to make it stand out. Go back through my post history and you'll find me arguing in favor of the Zombie Pirates well before that DLC was announced. Do I think implementation could have been improved a little? Sure. But I never doubted the concept.

    I still feel the DoW with what currently exists in canon have less to work with. I've argued in favor of them for a long time too, but with the caveat that they need work. I think that work still needs to be done and it necessitates going beyond canon. The Vampire Coast had Dreadfleet and a bunch of unused Forgeworld undead to draw on, including one that looks like a giant walking pirate ship. IT was a slam dunk for them to use that stuff.

    There's no equivalent for the DoW to my mind. Maybe you're right, maybe CA will implement them one day and will break out the creative big guns. But it would be foolish of me to assume the idealized version of the DoW I hold in my head is what they would produce, and in the interim I am very uncertain of how they will go about.

    We'll see in due time, I suppose. I just hope they dig deep and dig well.
  • CountTalabeclandCountTalabecland Posts: 223Registered Users
    Lol Giant Pygmies are already in the game, they are just called “Giant Slayers.” Because obviously CA should have taken that name literally and it means slayers that are giant dwarfs.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users
    edited June 22

    There are already existing overlaps in themes and focus among races, to my mind. Bretonnia and the High Elves have a lot of overlap, for example, to say nothing of the various Celtic influences between Bretonnia and the Wood Elves. I think it could be done, and GW probably wouldn't have restrained themselves to what was already in world had they chosen to do it; if the handful of Ogre units in the DoW could lead them to creating tons of prehistoric cave beasts and more in the Ogre Kingdoms book, then an expanded DoW in general could give us all kinds of wonders.

    But I'm not going to go back over past debates about where CA or GW could have pulled ideas from for the DoW, or spitball new unit ideas. It's all fanfic at the end of the day, and my waxing on about it doesn't bring it into reality.

    Suffice to say that if a DoW faction emerged that was full of units like the Galloper Guns, Birdmen of Catrazza, Alchemical Grenadiers, Snakemen of Khuresh Mercenaries, units that you can't get anywhere else? That I would buy. If it's a lot of units that are relatively interchangeable with those of other factions, or are just lacking in uniqueness or personality? That I would skip.

    I also suspect a lot of people would skip it if that were the case, and if we never get the DoW from CA I would guess this would be a significant reason why: because there wasn't enough canon material for them to use and they either didn't feel confident enough to create their own material or GW wouldn't allow it.

    Well there is the huge difference in that High Elves are Elves and Bretonnians are Humans. That right there is usually good enough for folks to consider them distinct. One of the chief complaints about DoW is how they'd feel like a reskin of the Empire; they're already two human races (well, mostly human in the case of DoW) and they're both more or less based on late Medieval European cultures. It's part of why it's so disappointing that their chances of coming in WH2 are slim; the New World is a very exotic and vibrant setting and borrowing some aesthetics from these areas would at least make them look different from the dingy, grimdark Empire. Having some Tilean mercenaries wearing renaissance/classical style armor and bedecked with bling from Khemri and trophies from Lustria and whatnot would be a stark contrast to the mustachioed, floppy hat wearing Imperials.

    And one of the problems with making the DoW more distinct is that the Empire already covers such a broad body of themes so innovating in any one of those directions would make them feel samey. CA could draw from other parts of the WH world and I'd be happy to see them do that, but there's a fine line between making them a race with their own distinct character and making them just a "catch-all" race for every single minor faction and lore footnote in the IP. I'm not sure I buy the claim that they don't have enough canon material; the list I throw around every time somebody makes a thread about them is proof enough that they could probably field as many units as any other race just based on their rules.

    They already have some units that are like nothing else in the setting, but they should still borrow a few token generic units from existing races which would naturally gravitate to mercenary work. The units themselves might not be that distinct, but the specific combination of those units in a single roster does offer at least a little novelty.

    Sidenote: I know the Snakemen exist, but what is their shtick? Are they creatures of Chaos? Or somehow related to the Lizardmen? It's unclear to me.
    Post edited by Ol_Nessie on
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Posts: 1,737Registered Users
    Erminaz said:

    The Lost Kindred are actually mentioned in the 4th edition Wood Elves Army book on page 13. I'll try and break them down in bullet points:

    - They were Asrai who lived among the glades of Wythel trees.
    - They focused their entire lives and industry upon the Wythel trees.
    - A blight affected the trees and they began to dwindle for unknown reasons.
    - Despite their best efforts they could not get the trees to germinate.
    - After much study and attempts at trying to figure out the problem they discovered that it had something to do with magic deep below the ground.
    - Despite their best efforts they couldn't find a way to deal with the magic.
    - Unable to restore their lands they sent mages to find new sources of Wythel trees.
    - After years of searching by war hawk one of the mages finally returned with the location of another grove of Wythel trees.
    - With a new grove far away from Athel Loren to provide them with the trees they coveted they left the forest.
    - The entire Kindred traveled so far away that Athel Loren lost contact with them (remember this is 4th edition no world roots) and they became lost to their kin in Athel Loren.
    - Over the years since their separation stories of members of the Lost Kindred moving about and being seen by agents of Athel Loren have been told but no one knows exactly where they have settled. All that is known is that they are supposed to be somewhere over the Grey Mountains and far beyond.


    Well that is pretty much all the information I know of on them.

    Honestly, I really, really hope CA goes nuts with this and makes them an NPC faction stationed in the Haunted Forest in the Dark Lands (just north of the Dragon Isles, where similarly I hope Ca will go nuts and put a Lizardman NPC faction).
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Posts: 1,737Registered Users
    Ol_Nessie said:


    Sidenote: I know the Snakemen exist, but what is their shtick? Are they creatures of Chaos? Or somehow related to the Lizardmen? It's unclear to me.

    No one knows for sure.

    A blurb about an artifact associated with them, called the White Sistrum, mentions that it brings back associations to when "the cold-blooded snakes of Chaos" did some blood sacrifices. Does this mean the Blood Naga are Chaotic? Possibly.

    They live in an area surrounding the Lost City of the Old Ones too - could this mean they are related to the Lizardmen? Iunno, your guess is as good as mine.

    My headcanon is that they were a caste of Lizardmen who became corrupted by Chaos during the Catastrophe, but that is entirely my own whimsy.
  • EnforestEnforest Posts: 2,034Registered Users

    Ol_Nessie said:


    Sidenote: I know the Snakemen exist, but what is their shtick? Are they creatures of Chaos? Or somehow related to the Lizardmen? It's unclear to me.

    No one knows for sure.

    A blurb about an artifact associated with them, called the White Sistrum, mentions that it brings back associations to when "the cold-blooded snakes of Chaos" did some blood sacrifices. Does this mean the Blood Naga are Chaotic? Possibly.

    They live in an area surrounding the Lost City of the Old Ones too - could this mean they are related to the Lizardmen? Iunno, your guess is as good as mine.

    My headcanon is that they were a caste of Lizardmen who became corrupted by Chaos during the Catastrophe, but that is entirely my own whimsy.
    I think they are some sort of Beastmen breed (reptiles instead of mammal creatures), as it was said that their kigdom is lead by a Queen and Lizardmen are genderless.

    It is also implied that they are way more intelligent than Old World Beastmen since they managed to form a kingdom and build Chaos Temples where they sacrifice human captives.


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 2,168Registered Users
    Well done, that's really interesting. I always love reading about some obscure units and hope CA will take some of them to make a great TEB DLC.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users

    I might be in the minority, but I am almost convinced DoW will make it in the game, be it in game 2 or 3.

    In my opinion they kinda squandered the best opportunity they had to add them. A WH2 campaign pack just opened so many doors for them and they chose to do 2 undead races and call it a day on new races. So because we most likely won't see them in WH2, I have very serious doubts about seeing them at all.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,076Registered Users
    Ol_Nessie said:

    I might be in the minority, but I am almost convinced DoW will make it in the game, be it in game 2 or 3.

    In my opinion they kinda squandered the best opportunity they had to add them. A WH2 campaign pack just opened so many doors for them and they chose to do 2 undead races and call it a day on new races. So because we most likely won't see them in WH2, I have very serious doubts about seeing them at all.
    On the other hand, if Monogods is BS (and I think it is) they're probably going to want at least two DLC campaign packs for WHIII. An army of mercenaries known for traveling and fighting all over the globe? It's as good a bet as any.
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