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The Green Knight !

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  • Green0Green0 Posts: 5,240Registered Users

    Wyvern2 said:

    hanen said:


    Wyvern2 said:

    Green0 said:

    eumaies said:

    All this talk about Tyrion being bad... sometimes you want a more durable and sustained tool than a dragon that is just waiting to get focused down. You play the long game and he pays off. Dragons play a more heavy handed game. This diversity is a good thing and in my experience Tyrion is quite good if you use him right.

    bruh he has 3k HP. Star Dragon sitting comfy at 6K, also 80 armor and since it flyes and has mass it can actually dodge damage better than Tyrion ever will.

    All horse lords are in general fairly mediocre, unless they bring crazy, crazy buffs like Karl Franz and his Demi blob.

    It’s not even close, 2.5k for Tyrion with full kit or 2.4k for Stardragon.
    Tyrion with heart has what? 4.5k? He's a tiny target, has 125 armor, top of the line melee stats, and he also has 94 speed, so saying he cant dodge is bullocks.
    Doesn't matter. Being on a horse is completely different than being a monster or, even better, a flying monster.

    He can be zoned out by infantry, surrounded by cavalry and cycle charged to death by a flying monster.

    I cannot come up with a what situation he would be the optimal pick.
    Yeah I don't think Tyrion is my main choice in any matchup, and in most matchups he's not the second or third either. He's certainly not bad, but he is expensive for what he brings and he competes with Alarielle, Teclis and Princess on dragon, which I would all value higher than Tyrion over all.

    I guess he's the closest to being picked by me vs Coast, there he can do pretty good work. Also vs Dwarves on foot together with a lore master as a surprise pick to lay a beating on rune smiths. Before the fix to flayers I tried him a bit vs new skaven, but that requires some woods to hide in early game. Otherwise he get's very little mileage unfortunately.

    He could use 200 more mass (if I remember correctly, that would put him at the same as boris/karl/lector etc on a barded horse). I think he has 1300 now, the others have 1500 iirc. Still I think he would need cost reduction and probably another tweak to when and how the heart procs in order to really challenge the pick rates of the other options.
    I'm inclined to agree that a cost reduction would be the way to go(probably -100 or -200), but I think all this nonsense about his survivability not being as good(or quite frankly straight up better) than a dragons needs to stop.

    It's also a fact that horse lords/heroes are nowhere near unpopular if priced correctly.
    Yeah, I agree.

    I can see the argument about Tyrion though even if I don't buy into it completely. He is not squishy. He is however a little bit like the GK but much less so. GK has very little HP balancing the huge PR of being etherial. Tyrion has elven HP, which is lowish, balancing very high stats. So, if the opponent didn't bring the tools to kill him he is a nightmare to kill, but if the opponent did bring the tools he is easier than average to kill because of his lowish HP pool. Taking a volley from the hammer of the witches to the face or a liber bubonicus or being massively debuffed quickly hurts him really badly.

    But anyways, that's just what he is.
    surround by AL cavalry and he’ll be gone too. Contrary to what forums will have you believe, something like 1 Demigryph Knights surrounding him will beat him up. Stats don’t matter when you’re getting lots of rear attacks.
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,401Registered Users
    Green0 said:

    Wyvern2 said:

    hanen said:


    Wyvern2 said:

    Green0 said:

    eumaies said:

    All this talk about Tyrion being bad... sometimes you want a more durable and sustained tool than a dragon that is just waiting to get focused down. You play the long game and he pays off. Dragons play a more heavy handed game. This diversity is a good thing and in my experience Tyrion is quite good if you use him right.

    bruh he has 3k HP. Star Dragon sitting comfy at 6K, also 80 armor and since it flyes and has mass it can actually dodge damage better than Tyrion ever will.

    All horse lords are in general fairly mediocre, unless they bring crazy, crazy buffs like Karl Franz and his Demi blob.

    It’s not even close, 2.5k for Tyrion with full kit or 2.4k for Stardragon.
    Tyrion with heart has what? 4.5k? He's a tiny target, has 125 armor, top of the line melee stats, and he also has 94 speed, so saying he cant dodge is bullocks.
    Doesn't matter. Being on a horse is completely different than being a monster or, even better, a flying monster.

    He can be zoned out by infantry, surrounded by cavalry and cycle charged to death by a flying monster.

    I cannot come up with a what situation he would be the optimal pick.
    Yeah I don't think Tyrion is my main choice in any matchup, and in most matchups he's not the second or third either. He's certainly not bad, but he is expensive for what he brings and he competes with Alarielle, Teclis and Princess on dragon, which I would all value higher than Tyrion over all.

    I guess he's the closest to being picked by me vs Coast, there he can do pretty good work. Also vs Dwarves on foot together with a lore master as a surprise pick to lay a beating on rune smiths. Before the fix to flayers I tried him a bit vs new skaven, but that requires some woods to hide in early game. Otherwise he get's very little mileage unfortunately.

    He could use 200 more mass (if I remember correctly, that would put him at the same as boris/karl/lector etc on a barded horse). I think he has 1300 now, the others have 1500 iirc. Still I think he would need cost reduction and probably another tweak to when and how the heart procs in order to really challenge the pick rates of the other options.
    I'm inclined to agree that a cost reduction would be the way to go(probably -100 or -200), but I think all this nonsense about his survivability not being as good(or quite frankly straight up better) than a dragons needs to stop.

    It's also a fact that horse lords/heroes are nowhere near unpopular if priced correctly.
    Yeah, I agree.

    I can see the argument about Tyrion though even if I don't buy into it completely. He is not squishy. He is however a little bit like the GK but much less so. GK has very little HP balancing the huge PR of being etherial. Tyrion has elven HP, which is lowish, balancing very high stats. So, if the opponent didn't bring the tools to kill him he is a nightmare to kill, but if the opponent did bring the tools he is easier than average to kill because of his lowish HP pool. Taking a volley from the hammer of the witches to the face or a liber bubonicus or being massively debuffed quickly hurts him really badly.

    But anyways, that's just what he is.
    surround by AL cavalry and he’ll be gone too. Contrary to what forums will have you believe, something like 1 Demigryph Knights surrounding him will beat him up. Stats don’t matter when you’re getting lots of rear attacks.
    I think nobpdy is saying otherwise.

    At least if he gets his ass kicked he can regen back up. But hopefully you can fpcus down those demies with rear charge or arrows while they are engaged.


  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,755Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Discussion topic is the Green Knight, not Tyrion. Thanks.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,401Registered Users
    edited June 17
    dge1 said:

    Discussion topic is the Green Knight, not Tyrion. Thanks.

    Its pretty related as it is a comparison and the problem with the Greenknight can also be seen in Tyrion, exept tyrion has good example of things that could help the GK. Though the discussion has derailled a littlebit just dont close it because of that


  • another505another505 Posts: 1,072Registered Users
    There isnt much more to talk about the green knight or tyrion

    The two biggest way to make the green knight more viable is lowering his PR and giving some armor back like before and getting out of chaffs itself.
    It has been mentioned before. But i really hope CA see these are the biggest reason he is very useless or abusive in very niche situation instead of giving a few more MA, MD or WS again.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,755Registered Users, Moderators, Knights

    dge1 said:

    Discussion topic is the Green Knight, not Tyrion. Thanks.

    Its pretty related as it is a comparison and the problem with the Greenknight can also be seen in Tyrion, exept tyrion has good example of things that could help the GK. Though the discussion has derailled a littlebit just dont close it because of that
    No problem with that, and no intent to do so yet. There just needs to be better tie in to the thread topic, which a number of folks are not going, or can't seem, to do.

    I don't want to close it either, but we can't have threads continually taken off topic in this area. It's probably one of the reasons no one from the development teams comment any more. (Personal observation)
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • PippingtonPippington Posts: 2,026Registered Users
    dge1 said:

    I don't want to close it either, but we can't have threads continually taken off topic in this area. It's probably one of the reasons no one from the development teams comment any more. (Personal observation)

    Yeah, people sometimes discussing tangentially related things in threads that were originally about a different thing. That'll be the reason. Can't think of anything else.



    Get on, Kroq-Gar, we're going shopping

  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Posts: 1,882Registered Users
    Her has Fly keyword in AOS Warscroll, also he should have either more mass to pull out or some kind of teleport ability to prepresent that fly keyword.

    Or change dolorous blade to be single target debuff on Single enteties that lowers their MD and speed. Something like el syf.
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,401Registered Users

    Her has Fly keyword in AOS Warscroll, also he should have either more mass to pull out or some kind of teleport ability to prepresent that fly keyword.

    Or change dolorous blade to be single target debuff on Single enteties that lowers their MD and speed. Something like el syf.

    The blade ability is good, imo the regen ability should be changed, maybe giving it a Defensive boost or something, like huge Melee defense


  • another505another505 Posts: 1,072Registered Users

    Her has Fly keyword in AOS Warscroll, also he should have either more mass to pull out or some kind of teleport ability to prepresent that fly keyword.

    Or change dolorous blade to be single target debuff on Single enteties that lowers their MD and speed. Something like el syf.

    The blade ability is good, imo the regen ability should be changed, maybe giving it a Defensive boost or something, like huge Melee defense
    the regen needs to be faster or something if it HAS to be in forest.
    leaving a 2200 unit to heal for a minute or two in a forest(could be far away from combat) is a huge waste unless its near the end of the game
  • ystyst Posts: 6,153Registered Users
    Actually if that regen trigger is removed and changed into a passive. Adding the long missing vigour + vermin valor, he might just be worth $2200.
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  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Posts: 1,882Registered Users
    edited June 20

    Her has Fly keyword in AOS Warscroll, also he should have either more mass to pull out or some kind of teleport ability to prepresent that fly keyword.

    Or change dolorous blade to be single target debuff on Single enteties that lowers their MD and speed. Something like el syf.

    The blade ability is good, imo the regen ability should be changed, maybe giving it a Defensive boost or something, like huge Melee defense
    he needs something for mobility to escape chaff. He is too expsensive for what he brings now. Can be easily bogged down by chaff.

    I don#t think he needs another stat buff ability. That's why i said to change the blade to allow you to catch those SEM. But any other buff in that regard would be good. LIke some moblity or huge mass boost.

    His healing srsly nneds to be changed to just maybe active once per battle like a potion. He is 2,2k gold for crying out lound. COmpared to Kroak this guy is trahs, ofc Kroak is OP right now but still.
  • AWizard_LizardAWizard_Lizard Posts: 929Registered Users
    I said it before, i'll say it again. Give him teleport!!!
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,401Registered Users

    Her has Fly keyword in AOS Warscroll, also he should have either more mass to pull out or some kind of teleport ability to prepresent that fly keyword.

    Or change dolorous blade to be single target debuff on Single enteties that lowers their MD and speed. Something like el syf.

    The blade ability is good, imo the regen ability should be changed, maybe giving it a Defensive boost or something, like huge Melee defense
    he needs something for mobility to escape chaff. He is too expsensive for what he brings now. Can be easily bogged down by chaff.

    I don#t think he needs another stat buff ability. That's why i said to change the blade to allow you to catch those SEM. But any other buff in that regard would be good. LIke some moblity or huge mass boost.

    His healing srsly nneds to be changed to just maybe active once per battle like a potion. He is 2,2k gold for crying out lound. COmpared to Kroak this guy is trahs, ofc Kroak is OP right now but still.
    I think just changing the regen to a passive immune to vigour and giving him a verminius valour recharge in melee ability would be a good idea


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