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When 3K surpass the popularity of WH2, but this was not part of the Great Plan...

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  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Registered Users Posts: 536
    Ares354 said:

    Crossil said:

    FrostPaw said:

    It's worth remembering two things...

    1) The Chinese community has grown because of 3Kingdoms release.

    2) This release was after two well received and popular Warhammer releases.

    It should be doing well, what will be interesting now, is seeing if Warhammer 3 gets some interest from new Chinese fans, or if they only care about the game that specifically targets their fantasy.

    Every time someone mentions this the simple response is that they should instead stop making Warhammer at all and focus on adding more stuff to 3K. Seriously, if success of one game means putting content into another game from the game that's successful despite it making little sense then why not avoid the middle man and just make more of what is apparently successful?

    Or better yet since we can apparently ignore what exists in the setting so we can make money instead why not just ignore the existing armybooks and just go for the Far East with nothing in the middle? Because apparently making games to pander to nationalities is so profitable and base Warhammer IP can't compare to that? Not like an average player will care, right?
    I see no problem with adding Cathay.
    Over what race ? Them taking place of DoW, Kislev is crime.
    ...Why do they have to take someone else's place? Is there some reason it has to be Cathay or Kislev, as opposed to Cathay and Kisley?
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 2,612
    16k people playing Warhammer right now, 24k people playing 3K.

    I'm not seeing it. Daily player counts show Warhammer 2 maintains a beastly level compared to all the recent historical TW games, this indicates a substantial advantage in sustained revenue from DLC. 3K hasn't even been out a month, kinda early to be predicting long term development, let alone negative fallout. There doesn't seem to be a corresponding decline in TW player counts, so current player bases are largely independent.

    3K is hugely popular, but if it's the first TW to make waves in specific markets, that's potential new players for Warhammer as well. Six months from now, there could be a couple hundred thousand new players from Asia, not exactly Games Workshop's biggest market.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 17,667
    psychoak said:

    16k people playing Warhammer right now, 24k people playing 3K.

    I'm not seeing it. Daily player counts show Warhammer 2 maintains a beastly level compared to all the recent historical TW games, this indicates a substantial advantage in sustained revenue from DLC. 3K hasn't even been out a month, kinda early to be predicting long term development, let alone negative fallout. There doesn't seem to be a corresponding decline in TW player counts, so current player bases are largely independent.

    3K is hugely popular, but if it's the first TW to make waves in specific markets, that's potential new players for Warhammer as well. Six months from now, there could be a couple hundred thousand new players from Asia, not exactly Games Workshop's biggest market.

    That's why I only see 3K as positive. More people playing TW means more potential customers for TWW3 which hopefully could result in more money spent on it.

    Mutually beneficial.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • talonntalonn Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 533
    edited June 2019
    That's why implementing Cathay is a no brainer money-wise. It gets to encompass all the market (western and asia). I bet GW want to get a taste of Chinese $$ too
  • twwatchertwwatcher Registered Users Posts: 2,352
    psychoak said:

    16k people playing Warhammer right now, 24k people playing 3K.

    I'm not seeing it. Daily player counts show Warhammer 2 maintains a beastly level compared to all the recent historical TW games, this indicates a substantial advantage in sustained revenue from DLC. 3K hasn't even been out a month, kinda early to be predicting long term development, let alone negative fallout. There doesn't seem to be a corresponding decline in TW player counts, so current player bases are largely independent.

    3K is hugely popular, but if it's the first TW to make waves in specific markets, that's potential new players for Warhammer as well. Six months from now, there could be a couple hundred thousand new players from Asia, not exactly Games Workshop's biggest market.

    Just to put those numbers in some context, the 16K quoted is the peak for TWW yesterday while 3K is pretty much in the trough - different popularity across the globe, overall TWW has held up pretty well, slow decline since last DLC.

    TWW yesterday:



    3K yesterday:



    TWW since last DLC:


  • twwatchertwwatcher Registered Users Posts: 2,352
    talonn said:

    That's why implementing Cathay is a no brainer money-wise. It gets to encompass all the market (western and asia). I bet GW want to get a taste of Chinese $$ too

    Its not that simple though, both TWW and 3K both retail at around 35% cheaper in China against the US base price.
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 2,612
    twwatcher said:

    psychoak said:

    16k people playing Warhammer right now, 24k people playing 3K.

    I'm not seeing it. Daily player counts show Warhammer 2 maintains a beastly level compared to all the recent historical TW games, this indicates a substantial advantage in sustained revenue from DLC. 3K hasn't even been out a month, kinda early to be predicting long term development, let alone negative fallout. There doesn't seem to be a corresponding decline in TW player counts, so current player bases are largely independent.

    3K is hugely popular, but if it's the first TW to make waves in specific markets, that's potential new players for Warhammer as well. Six months from now, there could be a couple hundred thousand new players from Asia, not exactly Games Workshop's biggest market.

    Just to put those numbers in some context, the 16K quoted is the peak for TWW yesterday while 3K is pretty much in the trough - different popularity across the globe, overall TWW has held up pretty well, slow decline since last DLC.

    TWW yesterday:



    3K yesterday:



    TWW since last DLC:


    Yes, that different cadence to daily playing cycles for 3K is courtesy of a massive Chinese player count.

    Peak player counts have always been European. The TW series caps out in the evening for Europe, with stateside player counts being significantly lower. 3K isn't following anywhere near the same cycle, the maximum is in Asia now.
  • Ares354Ares354 Registered Users Posts: 2,554

    Ares354 said:

    Crossil said:

    FrostPaw said:

    It's worth remembering two things...

    1) The Chinese community has grown because of 3Kingdoms release.

    2) This release was after two well received and popular Warhammer releases.

    It should be doing well, what will be interesting now, is seeing if Warhammer 3 gets some interest from new Chinese fans, or if they only care about the game that specifically targets their fantasy.

    Every time someone mentions this the simple response is that they should instead stop making Warhammer at all and focus on adding more stuff to 3K. Seriously, if success of one game means putting content into another game from the game that's successful despite it making little sense then why not avoid the middle man and just make more of what is apparently successful?

    Or better yet since we can apparently ignore what exists in the setting so we can make money instead why not just ignore the existing armybooks and just go for the Far East with nothing in the middle? Because apparently making games to pander to nationalities is so profitable and base Warhammer IP can't compare to that? Not like an average player will care, right?
    I see no problem with adding Cathay.
    Over what race ? Them taking place of DoW, Kislev is crime.
    ...Why do they have to take someone else's place? Is there some reason it has to be Cathay or Kislev, as opposed to Cathay and Kisley?
    Why ? see game 2 and see what race had to be sacrificed for other to rise. I dont see DoW, Araby, but I see next Vamp faction.

    If we fallow you logic, both should come, yet they didint.

    Game 3 dont have 50 slot for race, some will lose those place. And I would willing sacrifice Cathay for another way better developed faction.
  • Ares354Ares354 Registered Users Posts: 2,554
    talonn said:

    That's why implementing Cathay is a no brainer money-wise. It gets to encompass all the market (western and asia). I bet GW want to get a taste of Chinese $$ too

    Yes, do use time machine, and tell that GW. They didint bother to bring Cathay for good reasons.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,151
    Ares354 said:

    talonn said:

    That's why implementing Cathay is a no brainer money-wise. It gets to encompass all the market (western and asia). I bet GW want to get a taste of Chinese $$ too

    Yes, do use time machine, and tell that GW. They didint bother to bring Cathay for good reasons.
    Because they cancelled the entire WHFB series? From their standpoint, none of it was profitable enough to overcome their desire to be able to protect every aspect of it through IP law.
    Later
  • Ares354Ares354 Registered Users Posts: 2,554

    Ares354 said:

    talonn said:

    That's why implementing Cathay is a no brainer money-wise. It gets to encompass all the market (western and asia). I bet GW want to get a taste of Chinese $$ too

    Yes, do use time machine, and tell that GW. They didint bother to bring Cathay for good reasons.
    Because they cancelled the entire WHFB series? From their standpoint, none of it was profitable enough to overcome their desire to be able to protect every aspect of it through IP law.
    Tell me, in what year GW started ? and when they killed WHFB ? For all those years they didint try to add Cathay, so dont give me this, ok.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,151
    Ares354 said:

    Ares354 said:

    talonn said:

    That's why implementing Cathay is a no brainer money-wise. It gets to encompass all the market (western and asia). I bet GW want to get a taste of Chinese $$ too

    Yes, do use time machine, and tell that GW. They didint bother to bring Cathay for good reasons.
    Because they cancelled the entire WHFB series? From their standpoint, none of it was profitable enough to overcome their desire to be able to protect every aspect of it through IP law.
    Tell me, in what year GW started ? and when they killed WHFB ? For all those years they didint try to add Cathay, so dont give me this, ok.
    Good point. If WHFB continued I'm sure GW would never have added more factions to the game to sell more minis.
    Later
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 2,612
    Games Workshop's last faction addition was Tomb Kings, in January 2003. In the past ten years, the median income in China, which is well below poverty level in the US and Europe, more than doubled.

    Poor people don't spend two grand on TT gaming.
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Registered Users Posts: 536
    Ares354 said:

    Ares354 said:

    Crossil said:

    FrostPaw said:

    It's worth remembering two things...

    1) The Chinese community has grown because of 3Kingdoms release.

    2) This release was after two well received and popular Warhammer releases.

    It should be doing well, what will be interesting now, is seeing if Warhammer 3 gets some interest from new Chinese fans, or if they only care about the game that specifically targets their fantasy.

    Every time someone mentions this the simple response is that they should instead stop making Warhammer at all and focus on adding more stuff to 3K. Seriously, if success of one game means putting content into another game from the game that's successful despite it making little sense then why not avoid the middle man and just make more of what is apparently successful?

    Or better yet since we can apparently ignore what exists in the setting so we can make money instead why not just ignore the existing armybooks and just go for the Far East with nothing in the middle? Because apparently making games to pander to nationalities is so profitable and base Warhammer IP can't compare to that? Not like an average player will care, right?
    I see no problem with adding Cathay.
    Over what race ? Them taking place of DoW, Kislev is crime.
    ...Why do they have to take someone else's place? Is there some reason it has to be Cathay or Kislev, as opposed to Cathay and Kisley?
    Why ? see game 2 and see what race had to be sacrificed for other to rise. I dont see DoW, Araby, but I see next Vamp faction.

    If we fallow you logic, both should come, yet they didint.

    Game 3 dont have 50 slot for race, some will lose those place. And I would willing sacrifice Cathay for another way better developed faction.
    OK, so far even the lowest race count - TWW2 - still has six races (And presumably isn't yet done), which would be more than enough for both Cathay and Kislev to exist:

    Chaos Daemons
    Chaos Dwarves
    Ogre Kingdoms
    Kislev
    Cathay
    Hobgoblin Khanate

    Furthermore, Game 3 is the finale. Whereas Game 1 and Game 2 had to weigh "Do we add another race and delay the next game, or work on the next game" such a dilemma doesn't exist for Game 3. Frankly, as much as I said it as a joke suggestion in the other thread, Creative could add ridiculously pointless factions like Sea Elves and Nippon if they like, the only thing they have to worry about is whether people will buy it.
  • Ares354Ares354 Registered Users Posts: 2,554
    psychoak said:

    Games Workshop's last faction addition was Tomb Kings, in January 2003. In the past ten years, the median income in China, which is well below poverty level in the US and Europe, more than doubled.

    Poor people don't spend two grand on TT gaming.

    And you should known by now why Kislev as faction failed. In post soviet block, that game was not know at all. Some people know, but player base was slim to non. (imho Kislev should be aim for this part of Europe)

    If GW would release that faction past 2010, their faith could be different, some goes with Cathay.
  • Ares354Ares354 Registered Users Posts: 2,554

    Ares354 said:

    Ares354 said:

    Crossil said:

    FrostPaw said:

    It's worth remembering two things...

    1) The Chinese community has grown because of 3Kingdoms release.

    2) This release was after two well received and popular Warhammer releases.

    It should be doing well, what will be interesting now, is seeing if Warhammer 3 gets some interest from new Chinese fans, or if they only care about the game that specifically targets their fantasy.

    Every time someone mentions this the simple response is that they should instead stop making Warhammer at all and focus on adding more stuff to 3K. Seriously, if success of one game means putting content into another game from the game that's successful despite it making little sense then why not avoid the middle man and just make more of what is apparently successful?

    Or better yet since we can apparently ignore what exists in the setting so we can make money instead why not just ignore the existing armybooks and just go for the Far East with nothing in the middle? Because apparently making games to pander to nationalities is so profitable and base Warhammer IP can't compare to that? Not like an average player will care, right?
    I see no problem with adding Cathay.
    Over what race ? Them taking place of DoW, Kislev is crime.
    ...Why do they have to take someone else's place? Is there some reason it has to be Cathay or Kislev, as opposed to Cathay and Kisley?
    Why ? see game 2 and see what race had to be sacrificed for other to rise. I dont see DoW, Araby, but I see next Vamp faction.

    If we fallow you logic, both should come, yet they didint.

    Game 3 dont have 50 slot for race, some will lose those place. And I would willing sacrifice Cathay for another way better developed faction.
    OK, so far even the lowest race count - TWW2 - still has six races (And presumably isn't yet done), which would be more than enough for both Cathay and Kislev to exist:

    Chaos Daemons
    Chaos Dwarves
    Ogre Kingdoms
    Kislev
    Cathay
    Hobgoblin Khanate

    Furthermore, Game 3 is the finale. Whereas Game 1 and Game 2 had to weigh "Do we add another race and delay the next game, or work on the next game" such a dilemma doesn't exist for Game 3. Frankly, as much as I said it as a joke suggestion in the other thread, Creative could add ridiculously pointless factions like Sea Elves and Nippon if they like, the only thing they have to worry about is whether people will buy it.
    Well, some people belive that Monogods are thing; Then this should look like this;

    -4 chaos goods armies
    -Chaos Dwarves
    -Ogres

    6 race. 7 is Deamon of Chaos, no place for Kislev, nor Cathay. As long as we wont see Monogods bs, we can get Kislev and Cathay but I doubt that with CA. Time will show us, who's right.
  • JadawinKhanidiJadawinKhanidi Registered Users Posts: 1,149
    The markets for the two games are likely mostly separate and will remain so. I've had several Asian subtenants, current girl is Chinese. All of them watched only television series and movies from their home country, zero interest in Netflix or any movies every Western person would consider 'universally interesting'. We always assume everyone knows Star Wars and stuff like that, but they totally don't care about all that. (Speaking about real Chinese here, not second-generation immigrants who grew up in the West.)

    And while we may have a few more people who are into the Asian stuff than vice versa, it's still a niche. Most Western players also prefer a setting that is based on Western culture and heritage.
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Registered Users Posts: 536
    Ares354 said:

    Ares354 said:

    Ares354 said:

    Crossil said:

    FrostPaw said:

    It's worth remembering two things...

    1) The Chinese community has grown because of 3Kingdoms release.

    2) This release was after two well received and popular Warhammer releases.

    It should be doing well, what will be interesting now, is seeing if Warhammer 3 gets some interest from new Chinese fans, or if they only care about the game that specifically targets their fantasy.

    Every time someone mentions this the simple response is that they should instead stop making Warhammer at all and focus on adding more stuff to 3K. Seriously, if success of one game means putting content into another game from the game that's successful despite it making little sense then why not avoid the middle man and just make more of what is apparently successful?

    Or better yet since we can apparently ignore what exists in the setting so we can make money instead why not just ignore the existing armybooks and just go for the Far East with nothing in the middle? Because apparently making games to pander to nationalities is so profitable and base Warhammer IP can't compare to that? Not like an average player will care, right?
    I see no problem with adding Cathay.
    Over what race ? Them taking place of DoW, Kislev is crime.
    ...Why do they have to take someone else's place? Is there some reason it has to be Cathay or Kislev, as opposed to Cathay and Kisley?
    Why ? see game 2 and see what race had to be sacrificed for other to rise. I dont see DoW, Araby, but I see next Vamp faction.

    If we fallow you logic, both should come, yet they didint.

    Game 3 dont have 50 slot for race, some will lose those place. And I would willing sacrifice Cathay for another way better developed faction.
    OK, so far even the lowest race count - TWW2 - still has six races (And presumably isn't yet done), which would be more than enough for both Cathay and Kislev to exist:

    Chaos Daemons
    Chaos Dwarves
    Ogre Kingdoms
    Kislev
    Cathay
    Hobgoblin Khanate

    Furthermore, Game 3 is the finale. Whereas Game 1 and Game 2 had to weigh "Do we add another race and delay the next game, or work on the next game" such a dilemma doesn't exist for Game 3. Frankly, as much as I said it as a joke suggestion in the other thread, Creative could add ridiculously pointless factions like Sea Elves and Nippon if they like, the only thing they have to worry about is whether people will buy it.
    Well, some people belive that Monogods are thing; Then this should look like this;

    -4 chaos goods armies
    -Chaos Dwarves
    -Ogres

    6 race. 7 is Deamon of Chaos, no place for Kislev, nor Cathay. As long as we wont see Monogods bs, we can get Kislev and Cathay but I doubt that with CA. Time will show us, who's right.
    If Monogods are a thing, there's no way in hell they're core races, as no one wants to play "Total Warhammer 3: Only Chaos".

    And as stated, there's absolutely nothing preventing CA from doing 759 DLC races if they so choose - it's the final game, there's nothing to worry about integrating for the next game, or slotting them in to the right place, or delaying development of the next game in the series. If they think there's money in doing Kislev, or Cathay, or Nippon, or "John's Tiny Little Hamlet Near the Silk Road", they're good to go.
  • Ares354Ares354 Registered Users Posts: 2,554

    Ares354 said:

    Ares354 said:

    Ares354 said:

    Crossil said:

    FrostPaw said:

    It's worth remembering two things...

    1) The Chinese community has grown because of 3Kingdoms release.

    2) This release was after two well received and popular Warhammer releases.

    It should be doing well, what will be interesting now, is seeing if Warhammer 3 gets some interest from new Chinese fans, or if they only care about the game that specifically targets their fantasy.

    Every time someone mentions this the simple response is that they should instead stop making Warhammer at all and focus on adding more stuff to 3K. Seriously, if success of one game means putting content into another game from the game that's successful despite it making little sense then why not avoid the middle man and just make more of what is apparently successful?

    Or better yet since we can apparently ignore what exists in the setting so we can make money instead why not just ignore the existing armybooks and just go for the Far East with nothing in the middle? Because apparently making games to pander to nationalities is so profitable and base Warhammer IP can't compare to that? Not like an average player will care, right?
    I see no problem with adding Cathay.
    Over what race ? Them taking place of DoW, Kislev is crime.
    ...Why do they have to take someone else's place? Is there some reason it has to be Cathay or Kislev, as opposed to Cathay and Kisley?
    Why ? see game 2 and see what race had to be sacrificed for other to rise. I dont see DoW, Araby, but I see next Vamp faction.

    If we fallow you logic, both should come, yet they didint.

    Game 3 dont have 50 slot for race, some will lose those place. And I would willing sacrifice Cathay for another way better developed faction.
    OK, so far even the lowest race count - TWW2 - still has six races (And presumably isn't yet done), which would be more than enough for both Cathay and Kislev to exist:

    Chaos Daemons
    Chaos Dwarves
    Ogre Kingdoms
    Kislev
    Cathay
    Hobgoblin Khanate

    Furthermore, Game 3 is the finale. Whereas Game 1 and Game 2 had to weigh "Do we add another race and delay the next game, or work on the next game" such a dilemma doesn't exist for Game 3. Frankly, as much as I said it as a joke suggestion in the other thread, Creative could add ridiculously pointless factions like Sea Elves and Nippon if they like, the only thing they have to worry about is whether people will buy it.
    Well, some people belive that Monogods are thing; Then this should look like this;

    -4 chaos goods armies
    -Chaos Dwarves
    -Ogres

    6 race. 7 is Deamon of Chaos, no place for Kislev, nor Cathay. As long as we wont see Monogods bs, we can get Kislev and Cathay but I doubt that with CA. Time will show us, who's right.
    If Monogods are a thing, there's no way in hell they're core races, as no one wants to play "Total Warhammer 3: Only Chaos".

    And as stated, there's absolutely nothing preventing CA from doing 759 DLC races if they so choose - it's the final game, there's nothing to worry about integrating for the next game, or slotting them in to the right place, or delaying development of the next game in the series. If they think there's money in doing Kislev, or Cathay, or Nippon, or "John's Tiny Little Hamlet Near the Silk Road", they're good to go.
    I didint wrote that in some kind of order.

    Ca may want even 999 dlc, you have sega to say yes, you have GW to give them permision to make new race. And those two are big IF here.
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