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Would a D&D total war been more successful then a warhammer TW?

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  • DrownedHoundDrownedHound Registered Users Posts: 6,991

    Quick, name a D&D major faction and the setup of its army!

    Case closed.

    Yeah D&D is a terrible choice for Total War.

    Now Iron Kingdoms on the other hand would be great because it is a TT fantasy army game but feels and looks different from Warhammer Fantasy, yet still has defined faction and nations with different playstyles. And it would have in universe reasons to limit the number of mechs/monsters you bring so you would actually have to try and make reasonable army comps. Main issue would probably be the almost complete lack of cavalry and some of the minor factions would need some expansion for actual unit variation. Plenty of faction variety though with 12(Or is it 13 now?) full races plus another 6 or so Mercenaries/Minions are used.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 5,408

    Quick, name a D&D major faction and the setup of its army!

    Case closed.

    Funny you should say that because back when D&D liked to try a lot of things they did exactly this. It was called Birthright, and it was about ruling regions or nation states. There are composed armies. But most materials were of course built around parties in most realms.

    Warhammer, by and large is the better one though.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,890
    Don't know it under that name, but I actually owned a book, part of the expert rules from the blue box set. Had rules for governing strips of land and how to wage war with armies. Basing a TW game on that would not have worked.
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USARegistered Users Posts: 5,755

    Quick, name a D&D major faction and the setup of its army!

    Case closed.

    Dungeons and Dragons Setting: Birthright
    Nation: Stjordvik
    Standing Military:
    Varri's Own Archers stationed in Lofkirkdik
    Erik's Freemen Infantry stationed in Hjorvaal
    The King's Foot stationed in Lofkirkdik
    The Frontier Thunderers stationed in Udvika
    Bern's Light Horse Guards stationed in Lofkirkdik
    Territorial Greys stationed in Namverg
    Andros' Highland Scouts, half stationed in Udvika the other half are stationed in each of the other provinces.
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,890
    Erminaz said:

    Quick, name a D&D major faction and the setup of its army!

    Case closed.

    Dungeons and Dragons Setting: Birthright
    Nation: Stjordvik
    Standing Military:
    Varri's Own Archers stationed in Lofkirkdik
    Erik's Freemen Infantry stationed in Hjorvaal
    The King's Foot stationed in Lofkirkdik
    The Frontier Thunderers stationed in Udvika
    Bern's Light Horse Guards stationed in Lofkirkdik
    Territorial Greys stationed in Namverg
    Andros' Highland Scouts, half stationed in Udvika the other half are stationed in each of the other provinces.
    Sorry, not a major D&D faction.
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USARegistered Users Posts: 5,755

    Erminaz said:

    Quick, name a D&D major faction and the setup of its army!

    Case closed.

    Dungeons and Dragons Setting: Birthright
    Nation: Stjordvik
    Standing Military:
    Varri's Own Archers stationed in Lofkirkdik
    Erik's Freemen Infantry stationed in Hjorvaal
    The King's Foot stationed in Lofkirkdik
    The Frontier Thunderers stationed in Udvika
    Bern's Light Horse Guards stationed in Lofkirkdik
    Territorial Greys stationed in Namverg
    Andros' Highland Scouts, half stationed in Udvika the other half are stationed in each of the other provinces.
    Sorry, not a major D&D faction.
    Define major D&D faction then, that is a major faction in the D&D setting of Birthright. If you are going to say that unless it is a faction that has a major presence in all of the D&D settings then can I say that, as Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Age of Sigmar, and Warhammer 40k all have the realm of chaos and the chaos gods (not to mention literature that mentions crossovers from Warhammer 40k though the realm of chaos) that they are all the same product and thus the Skaven are not a major faction in Warhammer Fantasy Battle as they are not in the numbers of say the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40k?
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,890
    Erminaz said:

    Erminaz said:

    Quick, name a D&D major faction and the setup of its army!

    Case closed.

    Dungeons and Dragons Setting: Birthright
    Nation: Stjordvik
    Standing Military:
    Varri's Own Archers stationed in Lofkirkdik
    Erik's Freemen Infantry stationed in Hjorvaal
    The King's Foot stationed in Lofkirkdik
    The Frontier Thunderers stationed in Udvika
    Bern's Light Horse Guards stationed in Lofkirkdik
    Territorial Greys stationed in Namverg
    Andros' Highland Scouts, half stationed in Udvika the other half are stationed in each of the other provinces.
    Sorry, not a major D&D faction.
    Define major D&D faction then, that is a major faction in the D&D setting of Birthright. If you are going to say that unless it is a faction that has a major presence in all of the D&D settings then can I say that, as Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Age of Sigmar, and Warhammer 40k all have the realm of chaos and the chaos gods (not to mention literature that mentions crossovers from Warhammer 40k though the realm of chaos) that they are all the same product and thus the Skaven are not a major faction in Warhammer Fantasy Battle as they are not in the numbers of say the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40k?
    First off, a setting less people know than the most obscure Ugandan soap opera is already disqualified to feature anything "major". The Krynn setting from the Dragonlance novels would actually qualify better as inspiration for a wargame since that also features warfare of some kind in the background and the novels have some pop culture penetration and even then I had to look up what the warring factions actually were. But hey, you got the evil Draconians and the usual assortment of good guy races (plus annoying pseudo Halflings) to clash with them.
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USARegistered Users Posts: 5,755
    @Ephraim_Dalton just to be clear, if you look at the first posts I made in this thread I in no way said it would have done better than Warhammer has, I actually point out why I don't think it would have done as well. Actually I think Warhammer is the better fit for the current iteration of Total War as no emphasis is ever made on the politics and diplomacy just like how such things are a joke in the Warhammer settings. I also said that Birthright wouldn't do to well because it was obscure, being unknown and forgotten by most of the D&D community.

    Yes you are correct, Krynn would be a more successful product as it is more known and has a setting that also lends well to war for example the most famous being the War of the Lance. Even then it seems to me that the vast majority of people who know about D&D only really know about Faerun, perhaps this is because of the newer video games. Eberron would be another setting that lends itself well to a war game.

    Warhammer was the better choice but if for some reason they were to go through with the headache of getting a license for D&D there are some settings that would lend alright to being adapted into a war game.
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • DrownedHoundDrownedHound Registered Users Posts: 6,991
    Erminaz said:

    @Ephraim_Dalton just to be clear, if you look at the first posts I made in this thread I in no way said it would have done better than Warhammer has, I actually point out why I don't think it would have done as well. Actually I think Warhammer is the better fit for the current iteration of Total War as no emphasis is ever made on the politics and diplomacy just like how such things are a joke in the Warhammer settings. I also said that Birthright wouldn't do to well because it was obscure, being unknown and forgotten by most of the D&D community.

    Yes you are correct, Krynn would be a more successful product as it is more known and has a setting that also lends well to war for example the most famous being the War of the Lance. Even then it seems to me that the vast majority of people who know about D&D only really know about Faerun, perhaps this is because of the newer video games. Eberron would be another setting that lends itself well to a war game.

    Warhammer was the better choice but if for some reason they were to go through with the headache of getting a license for D&D there are some settings that would lend alright to being adapted into a war game.

    So they should avoid Wizards of the Coast entirely and go with Pathfinder instead!

    I'm joking but at the same time I feel like Golorian would be a better setting than the D&D ones besides Eberron.
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 2,602
    Erminaz said:

    Erminaz said:

    Quick, name a D&D major faction and the setup of its army!

    Case closed.

    Dungeons and Dragons Setting: Birthright
    Nation: Stjordvik
    Standing Military:
    Varri's Own Archers stationed in Lofkirkdik
    Erik's Freemen Infantry stationed in Hjorvaal
    The King's Foot stationed in Lofkirkdik
    The Frontier Thunderers stationed in Udvika
    Bern's Light Horse Guards stationed in Lofkirkdik
    Territorial Greys stationed in Namverg
    Andros' Highland Scouts, half stationed in Udvika the other half are stationed in each of the other provinces.
    Sorry, not a major D&D faction.
    Define major D&D faction then, that is a major faction in the D&D setting of Birthright. If you are going to say that unless it is a faction that has a major presence in all of the D&D settings then can I say that, as Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Age of Sigmar, and Warhammer 40k all have the realm of chaos and the chaos gods (not to mention literature that mentions crossovers from Warhammer 40k though the realm of chaos) that they are all the same product and thus the Skaven are not a major faction in Warhammer Fantasy Battle as they are not in the numbers of say the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40k?

  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    The only way I see a D&D setting working for TW is if they create their own world from scratch and just populate it with D&D races/monsters. Then they could do whateverthehell they want. It still wouldn't be much of a "D&D" game though because I honestly can't imagine them taking the whole character character creation thing very far if they even have it to begin with. We have legendary lords in WH but that's small cookies compared to the options D&D could give us.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,844

    The only way I see a D&D setting working for TW is if they create their own world from scratch and just populate it with D&D races/monsters. Then they could do whateverthehell they want. It still wouldn't be much of a "D&D" game though because I honestly can't imagine them taking the whole character character creation thing very far if they even have it to begin with. We have legendary lords in WH but that's small cookies compared to the options D&D could give us.

    the thing with DnD would be that if CA would do it, they should let you customize characters, perhaps have randomize campaign maps.

    But I don't think that CA's current engine likes to have randomly created campaign maps (just a guess, not an expert on this!).
  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428
    I very seriously doubt that if you add up all the total number of sales dollars and number of fans in regards to all D&D based products and warhammer thay warhammer would even be half the market value.

    I sure that is the case in the us and here in oz anyway
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,364

    I very seriously doubt that if you add up all the total number of sales dollars and number of fans in regards to all D&D based products and warhammer thay warhammer would even be half the market value.

    I sure that is the case in the us and here in oz anyway

    Even if it's true, how many D&D fans like Strategy Games? most D&D fans prefer RPG Games.
  • Tr3izTr3iz Registered Users Posts: 88
    No no no no.
    The only correct course of action after finishing Total War Warhammer is to remake Mordheim and make it bigger. Multiple warbands to manage, homebase, secret bases, and so on.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,440
    DD is popular but honestly I would struggle to name but half a dozens specific creatures from it. In fact DD is pretty known as being quite malleable, and generic. If we talk about specific settings using D&D then those are much less known that some other IP.

    If CA was to adapt another fantasy IP, I guess they should look for another one coming with included geopolitics and armies, aka maybe another wargame. Of course the warhammer IP has quite the draw.

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,890

    I very seriously doubt that if you add up all the total number of sales dollars and number of fans in regards to all D&D based products and warhammer thay warhammer would even be half the market value.

    I sure that is the case in the us and here in oz anyway

    Yeah, and McDonalds sells even more on average every day. Guess the next TW should be about Big Macs and McRibs. This logic holds no water. D&D isn't about grand strategy, it's about dungeon crawling. Stop trying to force a square peg into a round hole.
  • GrantdemGrantdem Member Registered Users Posts: 122
    In terms of D&D against Warhammer, Warhammer is a far better fit.

    For other fantasy settings though, there are definitely a few. The Seven kingdoms of A song of ice and fire, could be good. Either just as the kingdoms resplit. Or actually as they were before the conquest.
    A couple of more out there ideas could be Kelewan from the Feist/Wurts novels.
    Eriksons Malazan Empire etc
    A new Dune could be interesting. Though too few factions really.
    I'm sure there are a lot more.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,729

    I very seriously doubt that if you add up all the total number of sales dollars and number of fans in regards to all D&D based products and warhammer thay warhammer would even be half the market value.

    I sure that is the case in the us and here in oz anyway

    Yeah, and McDonalds sells even more on average every day. Guess the next TW should be about Big Macs and McRibs. This logic holds no water. D&D isn't about grand strategy, it's about dungeon crawling. Stop trying to force a square peg into a round hole.
    Now I'm just looking forward to leading the Hamburgler to finally kill that Ronald clown with my army of nuggets.
    SiWI: "no they just hate you and I don't blame them."
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    Tayvar said:

    I very seriously doubt that if you add up all the total number of sales dollars and number of fans in regards to all D&D based products and warhammer thay warhammer would even be half the market value.

    I sure that is the case in the us and here in oz anyway

    Even if it's true, how many D&D fans like Strategy Games? most D&D fans prefer RPG Games.
    That's quite a stretch of a claim.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 5,408

    Tayvar said:

    I very seriously doubt that if you add up all the total number of sales dollars and number of fans in regards to all D&D based products and warhammer thay warhammer would even be half the market value.

    I sure that is the case in the us and here in oz anyway

    Even if it's true, how many D&D fans like Strategy Games? most D&D fans prefer RPG Games.
    That's quite a stretch of a claim.
    It's pretty much not true at all. Usually those groups cross over quite a bit. There is a reason there was a Warhammer and 40k pen and paper RPG and why you routinely encountered pen and paper RPG players amongst Warhammer players.
  • BrightestLightBrightestLight Registered Users Posts: 548
    the answer is no.
  • BrightestLightBrightestLight Registered Users Posts: 548

    Say based in the forgotten realms?

    I think D&D is a far bigger brand with a bigger target audience no?

    Dont get me wrong warhammer has worked out really well but i would have preferred a forgotten realms based TW fantasy setting

    It wouldn't work all that well, though. And for largely the same reasons why a party-based RPG set in WFB would kind of suck, except inversed.

    In D&D, you have different city states (they're not really nations as such), but everybody lives everywhere. Humans, urbanised dwarfs, elves, half-elves, haflings, the odd gnome, and the occasional half-orc.

    There's really no difference between warrior class of race dwarf from Neverwinter and a Waterdhavian creature of the same specs. In fact, there really is nothing special about any of the Waterdhavian creatures in general, save that they are from Waterdeep rather than somewhere else.

    There are significant cultural differences between the different regions and the different city states, of course, but they don't really shine through in a strategy game. So what you end up with is going to be an odd high fantasy game where everything is rather too similar.

    The situation in WFB is the opposite. Races do not co-exist in the same places by choice and if events force the matter then violence ensues. A dwarf, a skaven, and an orc do not walk into a bar unless they've been killed and reanimated as zombies by a necromancer. This makes a party-based RPG rather less interesting, though one might conceivably be set in the Blood Bowl alternate WFB universe, where everybody can come together for a game of totally-not-over-the-top-violent-football.
    warhammer was an rpg actually, and it worked well. playable races are far more limited, but elf dwarf human halfling isn't bad, take the subraces into account and the variety of nations and it works pretty well. hell, there's a game with a story/setting that could serve as a nice campaign--vermintide. granted DnD works well in general for RPG's, but warhammer works just fine.
  • wandaruthwandaruth Registered Users Posts: 1
    I understand that the D&D era is ending now, or am I wrong?
  • Sindri_TWACSindri_TWAC Registered Users Posts: 85
    edited July 28
    Major part of popularity of warhammer games overall comes from 40k and the dawn of war series. You might be surprised but many players don't collect miniatures and know nothing about DnD.
  • YannirYannir Registered Users Posts: 1,638

    Major part of popularity of warhammer games overall comes from 40k and the dawn of war series. You might be surprised but many players don't collect miniatures and know nothing about DnD.

    Dawn of War has sold about 7 million copies but there's about 13,5 million D&D players worldwide so I don't know how you justify that math.
    Ugh, I have spoken.
  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 1,092
    D&D is a homestay, most people know D&D from somewhere even if they call Pathfinder/Cthulhu/Delta/insomnia/... (basically any rpg) D&D
  • Shameless ImperialistShameless Imperialist Registered Users Posts: 65
    Short answer; NO

    warhammer is a unique wargame

    DnD is supder generic characted/adventure centered rpg
  • RamsesIIIRamsesIII Registered Users Posts: 965
    A D&D Total War game would miss many of the things that make D&D so popular as both a hobby and setting, so not really. There's a reason the vast majority of D&D videogames are RPGs.
  • DrownedHoundDrownedHound Registered Users Posts: 6,991
    Proof that Nagash is coming:

    The sheer number of Necormancers on the forum lately
This discussion has been closed.