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Multiple stacks are far more effective then more elite units

Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428
Im playing welfs and havent upgraded any military buildings at all and instead spent that extra money on a new LL and a 2nd army.

I have gained alot more ground then unsual far quicker doing this.

Funny thing is I am turn 40 and still using glade guard (without shields)

Wow this has completely changed my view on the tww2 bigtime
«1

Comments

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161
    edited August 2019
    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue.
    Post edited by BillyRuffian on

  • DebaucheeDebauchee Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,407
    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 8,993

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.


    "Our blood is not for the likes of you! Raise a hand against us and I will scourge the spirit from your worthless bones and hurl you into the Outer Dark! Flee before my wrath, wretched sons of Aenarion! The Dark Mother waits, and if you press me I shall offer your souls up to her!"
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKRegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 38,844
    Side conversation removed. There is a separate thread to discuss doomstacks, please use that.

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

    |Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi

    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

    "We wunt be druv". iot6pc7dn8qs.png
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161
    edited August 2019


    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.

  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428

    Side conversation removed. There is a separate thread to discuss doomstacks, please use that.

    thankyou
  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.

  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 8,993

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.


    "Our blood is not for the likes of you! Raise a hand against us and I will scourge the spirit from your worthless bones and hurl you into the Outer Dark! Flee before my wrath, wretched sons of Aenarion! The Dark Mother waits, and if you press me I shall offer your souls up to her!"
  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161
    edited August 2019
    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.

  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 8,993

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.
    Gave you an answer. You don't like it ? Don't care.


    "Our blood is not for the likes of you! Raise a hand against us and I will scourge the spirit from your worthless bones and hurl you into the Outer Dark! Flee before my wrath, wretched sons of Aenarion! The Dark Mother waits, and if you press me I shall offer your souls up to her!"
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161
    edited August 2019
    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.
    Gave you an answer. You don't like it ? Don't care.
    You face a HE doomstack with 10 Swordmasters, 4 dragons, 2 Dragon Princes and 3 Sisters of Avelorn led by a rank 15 Elven Prince on a chariot. Your stack is 6 Dreadspears, 4 Dark Shards, 3 Bleakswords, 2 Witch Elves, 1 Har Ganeth Executioner, 2 Black Guard of Naggaroth and 1 War Hydra and is lead by rank 10 Dreadlord on foot.

    The battlefield is even with little forest and hills. How do you defeat the HE stack in battle?

  • wunderb0rwunderb0r Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 686

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.
    Gave you an answer. You don't like it ? Don't care.
    You face a HE doomstack with 10 Swordmasters, 4 dragons, 2 Dragon Princes and 3 Sisters of Avelorn led by a rank 15 Elven Prince on a chariot.

    At this point I don't even know anymore what a doomstack is and what not...
  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 8,993

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.
    Gave you an answer. You don't like it ? Don't care.
    You face a HE doomstack with 10 Swordmasters, 4 dragons, 2 Dragon Princes and 3 Sisters of Avelorn led by a rank 15 Elven Prince on a chariot. Your stack is 6 Dreadspears, 4 Dark Shards, 3 Bleakswords, 2 Witch Elves, 1 Har Ganeth Executioner, 2 Black Guard of Naggaroth and 1 War Hydra and is lead by rank 10 Dreadlord on foot.

    The battlefield is even with little forest and hills. How do you defeat the HE stack in battle?
    Sisters are going to get destroyed by the darkshards easily. Same for the dragons actually they are weak to armor piercing ranged units, send the hydra to support the executionners against the swordmasters and you already have a decent start.


    "Our blood is not for the likes of you! Raise a hand against us and I will scourge the spirit from your worthless bones and hurl you into the Outer Dark! Flee before my wrath, wretched sons of Aenarion! The Dark Mother waits, and if you press me I shall offer your souls up to her!"
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161
    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.
    Gave you an answer. You don't like it ? Don't care.
    You face a HE doomstack with 10 Swordmasters, 4 dragons, 2 Dragon Princes and 3 Sisters of Avelorn led by a rank 15 Elven Prince on a chariot.

    At this point I don't even know anymore what a doomstack is and what not...
    Any stack that only features elites and rares. All of those are the best HE have to offer in their class.

  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 8,993

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.
    Gave you an answer. You don't like it ? Don't care.
    You face a HE doomstack with 10 Swordmasters, 4 dragons, 2 Dragon Princes and 3 Sisters of Avelorn led by a rank 15 Elven Prince on a chariot.

    At this point I don't even know anymore what a doomstack is and what not...
    Any stack that only features elites and rares. All of those are the best HE have to offer in their class.
    Fixed that.


    "Our blood is not for the likes of you! Raise a hand against us and I will scourge the spirit from your worthless bones and hurl you into the Outer Dark! Flee before my wrath, wretched sons of Aenarion! The Dark Mother waits, and if you press me I shall offer your souls up to her!"
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161
    edited August 2019
    neodeinos said:

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.
    Gave you an answer. You don't like it ? Don't care.
    You face a HE doomstack with 10 Swordmasters, 4 dragons, 2 Dragon Princes and 3 Sisters of Avelorn led by a rank 15 Elven Prince on a chariot.

    At this point I don't even know anymore what a doomstack is and what not...
    Any stack that only features elites and rares. All of those are the best HE have to offer in their class.
    Fixed that.
    Still haven't told me your strategy of beating spammy doomstacks on VH/L with a balanced stack.

    I repeat, take the armies above and tell me how the DE would win this one. You must have encountered that situation several times.

  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 8,993

    neodeinos said:

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.
    Gave you an answer. You don't like it ? Don't care.
    You face a HE doomstack with 10 Swordmasters, 4 dragons, 2 Dragon Princes and 3 Sisters of Avelorn led by a rank 15 Elven Prince on a chariot.

    At this point I don't even know anymore what a doomstack is and what not...
    Any stack that only features elites and rares. All of those are the best HE have to offer in their class.
    Fixed that.
    Still haven't told me your strategy of beating spammy doomstacks on VH/L with a balanced stack.

    I repeat, take the armies above and tell me how the DE would win this one.
    You mean you didn't read it.


    "Our blood is not for the likes of you! Raise a hand against us and I will scourge the spirit from your worthless bones and hurl you into the Outer Dark! Flee before my wrath, wretched sons of Aenarion! The Dark Mother waits, and if you press me I shall offer your souls up to her!"
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKRegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 38,844
    edited August 2019
    Can we get back on topic please. This thread is about Multiple stacks versus Single Elite stacks, not Balalnced stack versus Doomstack.

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

    |Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi

    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

    "We wunt be druv". iot6pc7dn8qs.png
  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 8,993

    Can we get back on topic please. This thread is about Multiple stacks versus Single Elite stacks, not Balalnced stack versus Doomstack.

    Just remove everything me and ED said and that's good.


    "Our blood is not for the likes of you! Raise a hand against us and I will scourge the spirit from your worthless bones and hurl you into the Outer Dark! Flee before my wrath, wretched sons of Aenarion! The Dark Mother waits, and if you press me I shall offer your souls up to her!"
  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.
    Yeah but im only using plain glade guard. I even disbanded the waywatcher unit you get at the start.

    And no Brettonia are actually an incredibly bad matchup for welfs. Cavalry destroys archers remember?

  • FonRestorffFonRestorff Registered Users Posts: 353
    Welfs vs Brettonia early is an easy win, at least on VH/VH. MP is a different story.

    Caster+eternal guard+glade guard can beat even elite ai armies. The amount of arrows melts lords and units in seconds.
    Orion is pretty much instoppable.

    You can get those heroic wins pretty easily.

    I’ve gone with two full stacks of ”crap” and crushed everything in my way on the offensive even when they go solo against settlement+stack.
    Have a small slightly more elite army to spearhead defensive battles in my realm.

    Mods used: no sieges+bigger garrisons.
    Welfs against walled cities would be even easier....
  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428
    So name an early game army welfs cant melt with archers then?

    It has nothing to do with welfs and everything to do with how the mechanics on tww2 works. Artillery and cavalry are just no where near as impactful as archers in tww2.

  • NyumusNyumus Registered Users Posts: 240

    10 Swordmasters with 4 dragons, some cavalry and 3 sister is not a doomstack, is a late game stack. Doomstack would be the 10-15 Necrofex Colossus spam that Noctilus sometimes do. The 9 Star Dragons I saw once, led by a princess with the others being all Phoenix Guard.

    And, to be honest, your Darkshards destroys the Swordmaters, Black Guard can kill Dragon Princes with no problems, Bleakswords and Dreadspears will hold the line and take the charge and Sisters arrows for you, Executioner can go on after to finish the allready damaged swordmasters (by Darkshards). Flank with Witchelves, and use one to pin down the chariot lord so your Darkshards can focus them down (2 volleys is enought to bring him to half hp, if not kill him straight away). Hydra flank Swordmaters to kill them.
    Simply put, Darkshards will be your salvation, they are the ones that should kill anything, the others are to pin down and hold the line. You don't win by annihilating them, you win by army loss and terror rout. It will be a tought fight, but is manageable with some cheese tactics and good terrain usage and micro. I had fought worse battles and still won (Lizardman Settlement 3 + first garrison building, no walls, against 3 full skaven stacks, one was garbage skaveslaves, one was clanrats and some gutter runners with poison with a Doomwhell thorwed in it, and the other was half Rat Ogres with some Catapults and 3 **** warlocks (those damn warp lightning), I managed to still won with cheesy tactics and terrain usage).
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161
    That discussion was ended by mod order. If you are interested, I can PM you.

  • BoombastekBoombastek Registered Users Posts: 2,121

    So name an early game army welfs cant melt with archers then?

    It has nothing to do with welfs and everything to do with how the mechanics on tww2 works. Artillery and cavalry are just no where near as impactful as archers in tww2.

    I remember as KF with starting reiksguard got 200-300 kills every battle.

    And I never can get 200 kills with crossbows.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161
    edited August 2019

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    I've already taken all Ulthuan with only dreadspears and witch elves, wasn't hard really.
    I notice you did not answer my question. Builds, strategies and tactics that let low tier armies deal with the most common HE doomstack, that's what I was asking you for.

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    It absolutely doesn't actually. Doomstacks make the game easier and that's it.
    That's a roundabout way of admitting that you get indeed punished for not doomstacking.
    Lmao, making the game easier does not mean it punishes you not to do something...
    It would punish you if you'd lost because of not doing it.
    Dark Souls punishes me for inefficient build with increased difficulty, yet I can never lose the game since there's no permanent failure state.

    See how that works?

    If something I do increases the difficulty, it means I'm doing it wrong.
    Except that playing without doomstacks is really not hard.
    Hard -ER and on VH and L it's damn near impossible to try and win with low tier stacks against the AI's elite spam.
    I always play on VH and I have absolutely no issue playing without doomstacks, maybe the problem ain't the game but it's you actually.

    wunderb0r said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    The game punishes you for not doomstacking, so no.
    *maybe on legendary
    On easy and normal you doomstack anyway because you got infinite cash almost straight away.
    You mean you doomstack ? Not everyone wants to y'know.
    Then you aren't playing on VH or L.
    I really am. Maybe if you can't play without doomstacks on VH you need to get better.
    Or you need to actually play on VH and L.
    Already am.
    Debauchee said:

    neodeinos said:

    Yeah, in early game.

    Nobody talks about early game because that's the only point where the game's actually balanced.

    It's mid and lategame that are the issue and there doomstacks are the way to go. More than two stacks together are only useful for AR abuse because of how reinforcements work.

    And even in late game doomstacks are not necessary.
    Yeah right, it's not like the Vortex Campaign is scripted to spawn Chaos doomstacks at later points of the game. Totally manageable with skinks/gobbos/clanrats and your basic spearmen variation.
    Not using doomstacks does not mean you have to use only slaves.
    Show me how you deal with a low tier stack with the usual Swordmaster+Dragon+Dragon Princes+Sisters of Averlorn HE spam stacks.
    by having 2 or 3 more stacks then they do?
    Not effective due to how reinforcements work.
    usaully i would agree with you but trust me u are better of having more stacks, I have just destoyed all of the brettinonia kingdoms by turn 50. I have never been able to do this with doom stacks.

    That's still early game.

    I repeat, early game is not the issue and early game Bretonnia is exceptionally weak anyway, especially to WE archer spam.
    Yeah but im only using plain glade guard. I even disbanded the waywatcher unit you get at the start.

    And no Brettonia are actually an incredibly bad matchup for welfs. Cavalry destroys archers remember?

    Early Bretonnian cavalry, Mounted Yeomen, is very weak actually and no match even for WE's basic spear units (which are AP+AL, something otherwise reserved for halberds). Glade Guard are stronger than all of Bretonnia's skirmishers and they have fire while moving.

    In early game WE can put the pain on Bretonnia without problems.

  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,278
    if you have AP ranged units, you have AP ranged units. If you don't, unless most of the enemy army is an armored counter pick for infantry, WE archers are powerful enough to still win, and their basic infantry is AP, high armor, and shielded.

    The obsolescence of units isn't uniform, some factions have better trees than others. AP basic infantry and highly damage archer units, would be exceptions to those rules. Especially against AI Bretonnian's who field mostly peasant armies even in the mid game. Waywatchers are actually less effective than their more numerous brethren, against low armor chaff units. That Eternal Guard are essentially a perfect counter to heavy cavalry just makes that matchup more inconsistent.

    With Empire in the same circumstances, you run into serious problems trying to take Chaos doomstacks with basic infantry and archers. A single unit of Chosen will end up killing off several of yours. It's much more effective to have gunpowder, heavy cavalry, and AP infantry. Your basic archers are substantially weaker, your basic infantry aren't even comparable. Dwarfs are tough enough to hang in with low tier troops, but they actually have shielded elite infantry, and it's depressingly easy to win 3v1 battles with a front line of Ironbreakers.

    It's also dependent on just how stacked the AI is. Fighting balanced armies with balanced armies, is just fine. Fighting half dragon stacks, not so much.
  • Lin_HuichiLin_Huichi Registered Users Posts: 461
    I sort of agree. I have campaigns where I run Tyrion with just archers and spearmen with silver helms. Usually his stack costs nothing, enabling me to raise more stacks of cheap infantry, where my primary advantage is numbers.

    However that applies to early game only, as others have said.

    Unfortunately the only High elf infantry that can reliably beat Chaos Knights are Phoenix Guard, no matter how many spearmen I field on campaign I can only bring 4 stacks to battle, and 40 units at any 1 time.

    It doesnt help that Chaos also has 4 stacks available per battle, this time full of Chosen and Chaos Knights, which no matter what Spearmen are not going to beat. I need to match or preferably exceed their military output, in order to win. Instead my elves are hacked to bits and run down because they are hopelessly out matched.

    On the other hand a full stack of Star dragons is brutally efficient, ripping and tearing through multiple demon hordes with no losses. I'd rather have 1 dragon stack than 4 Spearmen stacks, at least they would defend Lothern successfully.

    Shogun 2 got cheap stacks right. Both a few elite stacks and multiple cheap stacks are viable.
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