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Having more fun with 8P campaign than 3K

dracezhandracezhan Registered Users Posts: 43
Don't get me wrong. I would rather play with all the 3K toons but once I tried to play the game as a standalone game, the campaign is a lot more refreshing than the base 3K. I may have burnt myself out on the 3K campaign but as a whole, here are some major things that standout to me:

1) Factions feel a lot more unique. Rather than "You're another dude with a diff set of currency", I had to adjust my playstyle rather than standard "expand fast, build more armies" especially considering ...
2) Jin Empire isn't just free land grab. If you plan on warring these guys, you better be planning for the long haul. Not sure if you can keep getting edicts (which are incredibly helpful) from them if you're at war but they feel a lot more fleshed out than Han Empire as they keep standing troops that actually fight you but also introduces nice mechanics to keep favorably with them. Regency vs Emperor and their diplomatic repurcussions is way more flavorful than "Han Empire is now your vassal so you're perma war everyone else??" (which feels really stupid - why is controlling the puppet emperor just a gigantic detriment in base game??)
3) Minor balance improvements. Schools add some PO rather so it's worth considering rather than a pure "build this to get the archer reform and blow it up after". There's also a building that increases research speed which is great as reforms really just go down the same two trees and then the game's over. I'm also not sure of what happened but it seems I've been really sparse on getting Champion and Vanguards. Combined with the nerf to turtle, I've actually been running diff teams at times such as pure infantry + archery mix just because of the available generals and retinue so it's added some nice variety to battles for me.
4) Alignment is a really nice extra touch as opposed to yet another "your generals get into some argument about a pot and you decide who give the pot to for a temp satisfaction ..."
5) "Grand missions". Control 12 commanderies for +3 perma admin & prestige? Build 80 units for another perma bonus? These felt awesome to accomplish and the rewards were huge. I love how they commit you down the alignment path and give a huge boost.
6) Faction Leaders feel REALLY powerful. (They get so many stats, empire perks but they also get their own customized tree) Added just a nice extra individual touch.
7) The victory condition makes more sense, has more pathways to attaining it, and feels a lot less grindy. You can even choose to go down the "ultimate victory" condition if you want to do color the map.
8) Research feels more powerful due to the slimmed down options. I actually feel like I'm getting something each step rather than just waiting till the end of a branch or unlocking some basic buildings/units.
9) Game feels more "slowed down", see Jin Empire notes, but I definitely find myself using the diplo option. At times buying land versus just conquering to keep the relations.

Honestly, if we could pay a few extra dollars literally to just port these 8P mechanics to 3K base, I think I could probably blow another 200-300 hours onto 3K base easily.

Comments

  • BoombastekBoombastek Registered Users Posts: 2,121
    edited August 2019
    Most of review, campaign end at 80 turn.

    You just start playing and game ended.

    I remember someone mention it not mini campaign, it standalone campaign on full map.

    Yeah whatever
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,714
    Eight Princes has it shortcomings, but those are pretty fair points all around.

    I personally very much agree with point 7; different victory conditions/victory paths is something I've always wanted to see more of in Total War games. Thrones of Britannia gave it a try with the Fame, Conquest, and Kingdom victory types, but they didn't really have enough variation between them to be all that different. 3K went back to a single victory condition (which I thought was a shame, but understandable given the setting), but Eight Princes has shown that there's still room to fit in an alternate path in the form of becoming regent, and possibly leading to a different end-game.
  • foureyes85foureyes85 Registered Users Posts: 175
    edited August 2019
    I was also positively surprised by 8 Princes, I did not expect much, but I have enjoyed the two campaigns I have played so far and intend to play a third. The active Jin Empire really helps make 8 Princes interesting. I don't like how the reform tree was changed in 8 Princes but I am sure others do and it might work better in a short campaign. As you say some buildings have different effects in 8 Princes, the garrision building no longer gives + Noble Support (that is, Public Order in 3K), which makes it less useful since military supplies are still basically irrelevant (that said, Sima Yong's garrison building gives + Noble Support). My first campaign ended on turn 89 and my second on turn 80 - I don't mind this at all. At that point in the campaign every turn tends to take quite some time and I found the late game in 3K rather dull. I understand some of the criticism of the DLC, but I don't complain. There is room for improvement, but I certainly got value for the money. People who like to play a long campaign can continue to play until they have killed all 8 Princes. I would not enjoy spending so much time in one campaign - I rather try playing with another faction. I play on Records mode and find everything about Romance mode off-putting, but I understand that Romance players, in particular, would have liked more unique legendary characters. I don't care so much.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,231
    As you say some buildings have different effects in 8 Princes, the garrision building no longer gives + Noble Support


    That actually differs depending on the faction you play as.
    TW : Three Kingdoms. Units not running in battles ? You probably came down to a bad case of floor is caltrops. Use this miraculous cure to make your soldiers hoppity happy again : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2132907090 (NEW : Alternatively use the 1.6.1 BETA patch)
  • addvaluejackaddvaluejack Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 13
    Rewan said:

    As you say some buildings have different effects in 8 Princes, the garrision building no longer gives + Noble Support


    That actually differs depending on the faction you play as.
    Yeah, I noticed that, too. I think most generic buildings differ depending on the factions.
  • PrussianWarfarePrussianWarfare Registered Users Posts: 13
    I haven't seen much on reddit or here against the new mechanics, it's just that many of these features, like the alignment system and a more interactive Jin Empire, would have been perfect for adding to the main campaign. It feels pretty damn lame to, for example, choose Sima Liang because of his different playstyle, but then he dies in ten years because he's old and you realize that you're stuck seeing generic characters the whole rest of the time.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,231
    edited August 2019
    but then he dies in ten years because he's old and you realize that you're stuck seeing generic characters the whole rest of the time.


    Well, that's the usual Total War campaign yes.

    That's why I keep saying that 8P is probably more geared for Records than Romance.
    TW : Three Kingdoms. Units not running in battles ? You probably came down to a bad case of floor is caltrops. Use this miraculous cure to make your soldiers hoppity happy again : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2132907090 (NEW : Alternatively use the 1.6.1 BETA patch)
  • CK2BenchmarkCK2Benchmark Registered Users Posts: 358
    edited August 2019
    But all of those things could have been added to the main campaign, and it would have been better than both current 8P and 3K. You even said it yourself... I don't think anybody thinks 8P outright sucks, especially when you look at it in a vacuum where 3K exists, but it does, so why aren't these features in the main game?
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,231
    They could have been added yes.

    If CA had an habit of "retrofitting" features I would definitely agree that these should have been. However forgive me for being a bit "desillusionned" on that end after Total War : Attila.

    Both campaigns (AoC and even TLR) brought stuff that the main campaign could have really "liked" (Like the 10 Fertility system so farms aren't completely useless by the lategame or the general unit balance with armor and melee defence actually being real stats which would in turn make it so line infantry could like, survive more than 3 seconds against a charge of Huscarls)

    Heck even Empire of Sands and its dilemnas sortof shaping your faction brought something very nice that the other factions could have liked/enjoyed (like switching the dumb techs disabling techs to real dilmenas). Alas, it was not meant to be : CA just doesn't seem to be fond of retrofitting things. (And in general they also seem to be very cautious with balancing changes, which is why the trebs nerfs actually surprised me)



    IDK how it went in Warhammer since I only followed the development very loosely because I wasn't all interested in it but I'm guessing it wasn't all that different.
    TW : Three Kingdoms. Units not running in battles ? You probably came down to a bad case of floor is caltrops. Use this miraculous cure to make your soldiers hoppity happy again : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2132907090 (NEW : Alternatively use the 1.6.1 BETA patch)
  • nephlitenephlite Registered Users Posts: 407
    edited August 2019
    8p has interesting mechanics. True.
    But will I play 8p again? Never.

    People won't praise even wellmade mini campaign.
    Just upgrade main campaign.
  • CK2BenchmarkCK2Benchmark Registered Users Posts: 358
    nephlite said:

    8p has interesting mechanics. True.

    But will I play 8p again? Never.

    Also will CA ever update 8P again? Never.

    They even said it themselves post-outrage of 8P. They're planning on adding additional content to the main campaign or even make other chapter packs. Which means 8P is finished, dead in the water basically. What you see is what you get. There's never going to be any additional content for 8P even if the main campaign is updated.
  • BoombastekBoombastek Registered Users Posts: 2,121

    nephlite said:

    8p has interesting mechanics. True.

    But will I play 8p again? Never.

    Also will CA ever update 8P again? Never.

    They even said it themselves post-outrage of 8P. They're planning on adding additional content to the main campaign or even make other chapter packs. Which means 8P is finished, dead in the water basically. What you see is what you get. There's never going to be any additional content for 8P even if the main campaign is updated.
    So 8P not add anything to main campaign, for me there no point to buy it.

    That a good news.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,830
    The points sounds more like the shortcomings of the main game, so basically what needs to happen is to improve the main game as I always say because the main game could use a lot of improvement.
  • Blahzie2Blahzie2 Registered Users Posts: 14
    Every thread. I mean, seriously, wouldn't be ok if you missed *one* opportunity to bash something?

    It's like when your niece discovers glitter at the age of 5. That stuff gets into literally everything and stays there for months.

    Not trying to compare anyone to a 5 year old girl... just sayin...
  • BreadboxBreadbox Registered Users Posts: 785
    edited August 2019
    Some of the features should be ported to the base game. Especially the Regency thing, controlling the emperor should give you a large diplomatic advantage in the base game, not the opposite what the hell.

    Not so sure about the rest, the base game should not be slowed down imo.There isn’t enough independent factions in the base game, so fighting the ‘Han empire’ early is completely unavoidable. Rapid expansion is the standard procedure of all ambitious and successful warlord of the time.
  • tgoodenowtgoodenow Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 794
    Yup, I didn't think I would like it, but the experience is much better.
  • ArbitraryDwarfArbitraryDwarf Registered Users Posts: 119
    To be fair, it cost the same as a pint and a packet of crisps, I was not expecting much in the way of longevity.
  • KruegerCondailKruegerCondail Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 22
    I have really enjoyed 8p as well, I was worried the lack of characters would make it boring but actually it was cool to make stories with these generic characters.

    Also on the comments about Sima Liang's age he was the first campaign I finished and by turn 90 when I finished my campaign he was still alive at the age of 80 so I think he is like huang zhong who never really dies of old age.

    Plus both of his sons are fairly badass as well
  • MrMecHMrMecH Registered Users Posts: 2,291
    I feel 8P campaign is lack of ambition. I never doubt It is fun campaign but overall DLC look so plain because of low budget. It should be more interesting things like Rise of the Republic.
    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

  • AdmiralJelloAdmiralJello Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 511
    The regency mechanic 100% needs to be ported to the main game. Especially for the governor factions, who should really consider that as a viable goal instead of trying to become emperor, just later than everyone else.

    The demands from court are a good mechanic too.
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