As you may know, I've been working on a 'updated missing characters and units' series of posts over the past few weeks but obviously I'm having to wait out the storm of this DLC. I've been updating my lists and working on new ones but I can't continue until all the new stuff has been revealed and released.
So instead I was inspired to move onto the next thing I had planned: a southern realms army list for Tilea, Estalia and the Border Princes.
The problem is: there's no real official list of their units. I've collected units from lore snippets and DoW but it's all very tucked away and I don't want to miss anything.
So I thought I'd throw it out to the forums while I work on it to see if you know anything I don't.
I've also been drawing from these fan made army books:
https://issuu.com/m4cr1ii3n/docs/warhammer-armies---estalia_20100908_225012https://issuu.com/m4cr1ii3n/docs/warhammer_armies_-_dogs_of_warAnd I've been trying to run background checks on all of the units but it's all very esoteric.
So I ask you, what units do you know of, what ones are legit and what do you want to see from Southern Realms?
My roster so far:
Edit: (this isn't everything I've collected and it's not representative of a final list. This is meant to be a representation of southern realms core units, excluding Dogs of War that are available to everyone like Armoured orcs, High elves etc. Feel free to mention these if you wish)
Generic lords and heroes
- Priestess of Mirmidia
- Inquisitor (witch hunter/arch lector combo)
- Diestros (dualist fencer)
- Hired assassin
- Mercenary general
- Hireling wizard/battle magi
Infantry units
- Terico Pikemen
- Rodeleros (sword infantry)
- Black Watchmen (halberd heavy infantry)
- Sisters of fury (Shield maidens of Mirmidia)
- Pit fighters
- Mercenaries of Fortune
- Mountain bandits
- Slayer Pirates (Dwarfs)
- Halflings
- Vespero's Vendetta (assassin's)
Missile units
- Grenadiers
- Royal guard (heavy armour arquebusiers)
- Bandit Skirmishers
- Braganza's Besiegers (crossbows with a shieldwall/turtle)
Cavalry units
- Knights of the blazing sun
- Order of the righteous spear (Anti-Large spear cav)
- Stradiots (light missile cav)
- Conquistadors
Beast units
- Fire Bulls
- War Dogs
- Giants / Albion Giants
Flying units
- The Birdmen of Carazza (crossbowmen with da Vinci gliders that fly)
- Griffin / Pegasus Riders
Artillery units
- Bronzino's Galloper Guns (light artillery that can be fixed to the back of carriages)
- Ballista
- Scorpion
- Ribaults
- Halfling Hot Pot
Comments
I want motherlovers who go out to battle wearing their most expensive garments. I want Midas the Mean riding a big old chariot carrying his gold standing next to his food loving buddy. I want a full roster of rebels, losers, outcasts, and the Hungry (you forgot Ogres OP
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1 · Disagree AgreeBut it CA invents new lore, I would really love a clockpunk flavour, with clockwork automatons and Da Vinci turtle tanks.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAgain @SeanJeanquoi Your inability to find sources leads you to make strange posts purposing odd things.
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0 · Disagree Agree#JusticeForCathay
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0 · Disagree AgreeI have read through their stuff but most of it is RoR and units from other factions which I'm trying to avoid.
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0 · Disagree AgreeWhen I make threads like this I am open about the fact that I'm just throwing it over to you guys to get your opinions and so you can offer something I might not know.
The list is a work in progress. I'm not presenting to you my final findings, I am working on my final findings and asking you on the side.
I don't see how this constitutes 'an inability to find sources' when this thread is litterally me saying "I'm working on it seperate from you guys but do you have anything to add?"
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1 · Disagree Agree'how did you missing half their units'
If you are referring to Dogs of War/RoR units like Leopold's Leopard company, Pirazzo's lost Legion, Ricco's Republican Guard then those are RoR/dogs of war, which I am intentionally trying to leave off to the side for now because "my list so far" is supposed to be their core units and roster. I'm not going to leave these units out entirely.
There are a plethora of units I didn't mention In my 'what I've got so far' because it was supposed to be a ballpark of what I'm working with and what I could see being their core units rather than special ones, DoW and units comprised of other races such as Elves, Greenskins Etc.
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0 · Disagree AgreeI think I'm with @Xenos7 here. I'd really like for CA to make the Southern Realms their own distinct faction with Italian and Spanish alt history themes, pirates and bandits, rather than filling up their roster with every other factions races.
The RoR and Dogs of War could be a unique mechanic with unique units for hire on top of a solid SR faction.
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0 · Disagree AgreeLet Slip the Dogs of War - A fanmade Campaign Pack concept
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/303462/let-loose-the-dogs-of-war-a-fanmade-campaign-pack-concept
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1 · Disagree AgreeI forget what this was all in response to, I just saved it a long time ago so if it doesn't make total sense that's why.
_____________
I feel that you do this in 4 stages and you have to ask yourself several questions. First you have what could be considered their "Core List", this is what I'd call their core units.
Core
Lords- Mercenary General A (Melee)
- Mercenary General B (Melee/Ranged Hybrid)
HerosUnits
- Pikes
- Armoured Pikes
- Paymaster's Guard (Armored Halberds) (Older versions let them take Heavy Plate)
- Duellists Dual Weapon (Tilian Duellists)
- Duellists Sword n' Shield (Estalian Rodeleros)
- Duellists Pistols (Sartosan Pirates)
- Duellists Throwing Knives (Borderland Cutthroats)
- X-Bows
- Light Cav
- Light Cav w/Bows
- Heavy Cav
- Havy Cav w/Lances
- Cannons
- Halfling Hot Pot
_________________Then Second you have to decide what to do about their access to other race's units. They could field unit equal to some low tier units from the races of the Dwarfs, Norscans, Halflings & Ogres. For me its obvious that the halflings and the ogres have got to make the cut. The Halflings aren't available to any other faction so might add them here and make the Halfling hot pot not so lonely, maybe add a special building to the moot so the Empire can recruit them in campaign. They might even want to dig up a unit or two from the old halfling army list. The Ogres on the other hand are a natural fit, one is a race that regularly hires itself out and mercenaries and the other is a faction that hires nothing but Mercs and their standing army. Also the Ogres are meaty and give us the possibility of T3-4 Units. In addition to using the DoW listing for ogres they should also make an DoW Ogre Maneater variant available to both the DoW and the Ogre Kingdoms when they launch. I could see the case for dwarfs/norscans but mostly they don't offer much low tier options that are duplicate things already in the list though I could see the case for using them to justify more creative units. Honorable shout out to dwarf miners as "prospectors" though. Will call this the "Diversity Roster", take this as a maybe.
Diversity Roster
Units- Halfling Poachers
- Halfling Goat Riders
- Dwarf Prospectors (Miners)
- Ogres
- Ogres w/GW
- Ogre Pirates (Ogre Pistols)
__________________Third you down grade some RoR units to make some new generic units. Not all of these makes sense like Tichi Huichi's Raiders, but some like Braganza's Besiegers or Bronzinos Galloper Guns make a good deal of sense. Here's a few possibilities.
RoR Downgrades
Units- Braganza's Besiegers -> X-Bow w/Pavise (Light armor, Heavy reserved for the Besigers)
- Bronzinos Galloper Guns -> Galloper Guns?
- Birdmen of Catrazza -> Birdmen?
- Long Drongs Slayer Pirates -> Dwarf Pirates?
_________________Fourth, should they have rifles? I mean they have Pistols and Cannons. They are friendly and trade with both the dwarfs and the Empire. Sure they never had them in their own army list in 6th ED but it seems like they'd have them. So if you say yes to guns, then they should have hand gunners, also since the pavis is already in use in Tilia maybe the also have Handgunners w/Pavise.
Say Yes to Guns?
Units- Handgunners
- Handgunners w/Pavise
I would have liked to have seen them as potentially a horde in the Vortex Campaign where they would replace the Vortex Intervention armies and you as the player would have been hired by the various "Vortex Players" to raid and pillage their rivals. They would have some sort of special diplomacy system to cover them being hired by other factions that both the AI would use to hire you as them or that you could use to hire them as allies as another faction. The whole point of the campaign would be to make a tone of money and sack the 7 "cities of gold" the faction capitals of the other races. (Lizardmen, Skaven, High Elves, Dark Elves, Vampire Coast, Tomb Kings, and "Araby")In ME I expected them to be a more traditional faction that could still lend its services to others at a price, I also thing that all of the Estalian/Tilian cities should all be made into one province city states with 10-12 building slots each owned by a different faction of course. Not sure how they should handle the border princes, probably the same but with fewer building slots. The border princes should start with a random "Rouge Faction" controlling each settlement except for Akendorf where Leopold the Black Should Start. The Roge Factions with their weird mish mash of other faction units really fits the Borderlands.
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0 · Disagree Agreehttps://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189962/dogs-of-war-compilation
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0 · Disagree AgreePerhaps I should have prefaced something: I was trying to avoid overlap with other factions, I was looking at and for unique units to them (although I did put Knights of the blazing sun in there).
I had seen all of them (aside from a few variants like hunter halflings, Halfling goat riders, ogre pirates, dwarf prospectors) already...which leads me to another point: most of what you just listed is variations.
I could have said light melee cav, light missile cav, melee Halfling, huntsman halfling but then that would have bloated the list which was meant to be just a ballpark.
As I said to Vanilla_Gorilla: I'm wanting to focus on the core units from southern realms that makes them unique in and of themselves without adding in all the other races units, then I will add the other races units on top where necessary or on the side (which is what I think CA should do)
Still, I appreciate the input and thank you for bringing to attention the ones I mentioned that I had not seen yet.
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0 · Disagree Agreehttps://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/245954/dow-units-that-were-left-on-the-drawing-board#latest
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0 · Disagree AgreeI think Southern Realms should be:
Spanish/Italian with some alt history fantasy units + pirates + bandits
And then dogs of war should be something off to the side but still similar (southern realms units could all potentially be in the DoW roster)
This way: Tilea, Estalia and the Border Princes could be their own unique faction with DoW elements
The New world Colonies and Sartosa could be unique pirates
And then you could have roaming DoW armies as you suggest + RoR for hire for some other factions potentially.
So the 4 lords for Southern Realms/DoW DLC could be split between the settlements in the SR themselves, a pirate faction in port Reaver with a Sartosa rework and finally a Roaming army lord.
That would be my ideal.
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0 · Disagree AgreeI mean I know that their generic list has wonderfully generic names like
- X-Bows
- Light Cav
- Light Cav w/Bows
- Heavy Cav
- Havy Cav w/Lances
- Cannons
But those are all units that are part of their official army list, and if you've simply renamed them to give them a bit of personality you need to some how designate that.- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeI didn't miss them (except for the dualists who I thought were just heroes). Like I said I didn't want to bloat the list.
Also, the paymaster doesn't seem to actually fight and I was wondering if he would be pure support that can't fight or take damage or would he be something left to the lore. Considering the list has 5-6 lord and hero options I left him to one side.
I did spruce up some of the generic units by using their RoR counterpart or more special names (spear cav and Cannons/light artillery)
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0 · Disagree AgreeI guarantee you the reason CA has put them to one side is because until recently they weren't given as much creative freedom as they have now (and are going to need in the future) and because the DoW units include every single faction.
I'm not saying they shouldn't get DoW but DoW should be something added on top of a solid unique roster for them, otherwise CA might as well just add a bunch of DoW units for their respective factions.
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0 · Disagree Agree#JusticeForCathay
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0 · Disagree AgreeEvery unit from their armybook and the ones that appeared in white dwarf as RoR (briganzas besiegers, anacondas amazons and all the other units we know and love)
Then a core army based on generic Tilean (and maybe Estalian) units: Light/heavy pikemen, pavise crossbowmen, mercenari captains, duelist ...
And finally some units of every other race of the warhammer world, because this is a mercenary army: Halfling archers, dwarf adventurers, Norscan pillagers, exiled samurais...
Thorek Ironbrow, Alrik Ranulfsson, Grimm Burloksson, Kazador Thunderhorn, Byrrnoth Grundadrakk, Malakai Makaisson,Gotrek Gurnisson, Garagrim, Dragon slayer, Deamon slayer, Doomseekers, Brotherhood of Grimnir,Giant slayers, Thunderbarge, Shieldbearer mount, Master brewer, Goblin Hewer, Norse dwarf war mammoth, Tractator engine, Rune golem, Shard dragon,proper Anvil of Doom, Ulther's dragon company, Lond Drong's slayer pirates, Everguard, Karak Varn,Karag Agrilwutraz,Karaz Bryn, Karag Dum,Karak Vlag, Kraka Dorden, Kraka Ornsmotek, Kraka Ravnsvake, Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn, Karak Krakaten.All those missing things are grudges in the great book, is in your hand to settle them, CA. Khazukan kazakit-ha!
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0 · Disagree AgreeFor RoR I would like to see CA explore more of da Vinci’s inventions, Birdmen, etc.
For DoW, the Southern Realms should either get auto access through a unique build chain which allows Southern Realms to use the units and also get money when they hire them out.
Or if DOW are their own semi- horde then Southern Realms should get a discount on hiring or priority to hire.
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0 · Disagree AgreeBasically I want the Regiments of Renown to form the basis for different units but to have a semi coherent aesthetic that half resembles Roman armies yet still somewhat retains their diversified mercenary look.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAlso I don’t care what lore you have to maim, kill, burn or twist to have Land Ships be a Southern Realms unit but I NEED them. And the Southern Realms needs it’s own marquee unit. Having them be in the Empire would be neigh on redundant and would be a waste. But for me they are the pinnacle of the beautiful absurdity that is the Warhammer aesthetic and to me they so so fit the Southern Realms. I’m actually a bit sad that Marienburg and the Wasteland are now firmly included in the new Empire mechanic because I wouldn’t have minded if Marienburg was included in the Southern Realms. I know there are lots or lore purists out there who’d disagree on both Marienburg and Land Ships but I have no problem bending or extrapolating a bit from the lore from time to time if I think it fits.
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0 · Disagree AgreeDon't fret about them being a part of the Empire Mechanic, Sylvania is too and they are in the hands of the Vampire Counts. They could do the same with Marinburg/DoW down the road.
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0 · Disagree Agree@OdTengri
From what I've been reading it seems like the Southern Realms is where GW had a lot of fun and in jokes like with Bologs the albion Giant, Curious Geaser, the way Leonardo De Miragliano Died and so on.
this reflects in their units a bit too with the Halfling Hot Pot so I think the Land Ship would feel far more at home in the Southern Realms than it ever would in the hands of the Empire.
I don't think the War Wagon is an issue because the DoW units means that the Southern Realms are going to be sharing units with other factions anyway, regardless of what restrictions they put on the mercenaries.
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