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Regional units for different races

yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Posts: 958Registered Users
So, with the DLC and old world update it seems we are all quite hyped. One of the new features is the empire's regional units, that seem cool and adds flavor to your armies. However, I also saw people clamoring for more specific regional units, aswell as more specific knightly orders. One post I saw even said that each empire province should be able to field a distinct army for that province.

This got me thinking, is this something we want for more races? And is it really reasonable to expect? Aside from the high elves, who have kingdom-specific units built into their core kit, no other race has much of anything in regional representation. Still, all the settled races are divided into regions with their own personalities, be it the Bretonnian duchies, the Dwarf great holds or the Dark elves' six great cities. None of these have any representation beyond a few RoR aswell as landmarks buffing certain units tied to the region.

Now, I understand that the empire is one of the most popular and iconic races. I also understand that they have been in a bad place for a long time, something that hopefully (and seemingly to me) will change with this update. Despite this, I still find it slightly unreasonable to expect the 10+ different knight options made out from two TT units, that aside from the KotWW are mostly more varieties of knights with lances.

Now, I'm all for more content, but is this what we want CA to spend time on? Regional units for all races? If only for the empire, then why? Share your thoughts!
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  • steph74steph74 Junior Member Posts: 1,033Registered Users
    I have it for SWO-RD, with local heraldry and uniforms for Dark Elves, Wood Elves, High Elves, Empire, and soon Bretonnia











    And also knights for the Empire
    White Wolves in Middenland


    Knights Panthers in Middenland

    Everlasting light in Ostermark

    Black Bears in Averland

    Knights Ravens in Stirland

    Black Guar dof Morr in Sylvania

    Sons of Manann in Nordland

    Knights of the Bull in Ostland

    Knights Encarmine in Wissenland



    Visit here to see screenshots of all the units.

  • BoombastekBoombastek Posts: 2,018Registered Users
    edited September 4
    Special to empire.

    Cos empire didn't seen overhaul around 2+ years. And still it one of most popular race, maybe mostest.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,817Registered Users
    The Dark and Wood Elves kinda do have provincial variation when you go into the fluff, even if it's not as explicit as it is with the High Elves (and for the Wood Elves, their territory is a little small to attempt to truly represent their regional variation). Black Guard are based in Naggarond, Cold Ones are mostly found beneath Hag Graef although they've been spread elsewhere, Khaine stuff is mostly to be found in Har Ganeth, Beastmaster stuff in Clar Karond, and corsair stuff in Karond Kar.

    Ultimately, we're seeing regional stuff for the Empire because the Empire is relatively unusual in that there isn't much regional variation in the core list, but we know from fluff that such units do exist. Most races either aren't as well explored in the fluff, or their culture is more uniform to begin with and thus less likely to spawn variations.
  • steph74steph74 Junior Member Posts: 1,033Registered Users
    Wood Elves than have heraldry.







    and so can Dark Elves. Spanish 7th edition has shields.








  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,817Registered Users
    Wood Elves have more than just heraldry. If you look through the Wood Elf book, there are definitely particular regions of Athel Loren that are associated with a particular unit type or another. Glade Riders are most common in the Meadow Glades, for instance, while Warhawk Riders typically come from the eastern mountainsides IIRC. It's just that when their territory is compressed into four ten-slot settlements, it's hard to reflect this variation in-game, even with landmarks.
  • steph74steph74 Junior Member Posts: 1,033Registered Users
    You have 12 WE realms. 4 Regions.
    So you can allow each region to recruit 3 different realms, with different uniforms and heradrly, and also stats.
    Like gives a bonus to the units froma a specific region
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Posts: 958Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    The Dark and Wood Elves kinda do have provincial variation when you go into the fluff, even if it's not as explicit as it is with the High Elves (and for the Wood Elves, their territory is a little small to attempt to truly represent their regional variation). Black Guard are based in Naggarond, Cold Ones are mostly found beneath Hag Graef although they've been spread elsewhere, Khaine stuff is mostly to be found in Har Ganeth, Beastmaster stuff in Clar Karond, and corsair stuff in Karond Kar.

    Ultimately, we're seeing regional stuff for the Empire because the Empire is relatively unusual in that there isn't much regional variation in the core list, but we know from fluff that such units do exist. Most races either aren't as well explored in the fluff, or their culture is more uniform to begin with and thus less likely to spawn variations.

    Draxynnic said:

    Wood Elves have more than just heraldry. If you look through the Wood Elf book, there are definitely particular regions of Athel Loren that are associated with a particular unit type or another. Glade Riders are most common in the Meadow Glades, for instance, while Warhawk Riders typically come from the eastern mountainsides IIRC. It's just that when their territory is compressed into four ten-slot settlements, it's hard to reflect this variation in-game, even with landmarks.

    I agree that dark elves have regional ties, but nowhere near as strong as the high elves. By this I mean that all swordmasters are trained in Hoeth, all white lions are from Chrace, etc. In comparison, the cult of Khaine is found in all dark elf lands despite Har Ganeth being their seat of power. Corsairs are dark elf marines/naval raiders, and while Karond Kar is the main port of Naggaroth corsairs can be found in all port cities. Clar Karond has the best beastmasters, but all cities have them.

    Only black guard and executioners are based in a single city each, compare this to the high elves: Sword masters of Hoeth, Ellyrian Reavers, White lions of Chrace, dragon princes of Caledor, Phoenix guard, Sisters of Avelorn, shadow warriors, dragons, phoenixes. All these units are based in a single kingdom each. The chariots are more similiar to the dark elf units, as they are not tied specifically to one kingdom, but Tiranoc still specializes in them.
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Posts: 1,583Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    The Dark and Wood Elves kinda do have provincial variation when you go into the fluff, even if it's not as explicit as it is with the High Elves (and for the Wood Elves, their territory is a little small to attempt to truly represent their regional variation). Black Guard are based in Naggarond, Cold Ones are mostly found beneath Hag Graef although they've been spread elsewhere, Khaine stuff is mostly to be found in Har Ganeth, Beastmaster stuff in Clar Karond, and corsair stuff in Karond Kar.

    Ultimately, we're seeing regional stuff for the Empire because the Empire is relatively unusual in that there isn't much regional variation in the core list, but we know from fluff that such units do exist. Most races either aren't as well explored in the fluff, or their culture is more uniform to begin with and thus less likely to spawn variations.

    As Draxynnic mentioned, the Dark Elf and High Elf rosters are pretty much already based around regional units coming together. Dragon Knights are from Caledor, White Lions from Chrace, Swordmasters from Saphery, and so on, for example.
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Posts: 958Registered Users

    Draxynnic said:

    The Dark and Wood Elves kinda do have provincial variation when you go into the fluff, even if it's not as explicit as it is with the High Elves (and for the Wood Elves, their territory is a little small to attempt to truly represent their regional variation). Black Guard are based in Naggarond, Cold Ones are mostly found beneath Hag Graef although they've been spread elsewhere, Khaine stuff is mostly to be found in Har Ganeth, Beastmaster stuff in Clar Karond, and corsair stuff in Karond Kar.

    Ultimately, we're seeing regional stuff for the Empire because the Empire is relatively unusual in that there isn't much regional variation in the core list, but we know from fluff that such units do exist. Most races either aren't as well explored in the fluff, or their culture is more uniform to begin with and thus less likely to spawn variations.

    As Draxynnic mentioned, the Dark Elf and High Elf rosters are pretty much already based around regional units coming together. Dragon Knights are from Caledor, White Lions from Chrace, Swordmasters from Saphery, and so on, for example.
    As I explained above, I argue that it is not the same for dark elves at least. The empire has regional specialities the same way dark elves do, Stirland has the best archers, Nuln makes the best artillery, Averland has some of the best horses. Despite this no one would say that the exsistence of cannons for empire = regional representation for Wissenland. The same way, most dark elf units are present in all cities. Regional representation would not be the existence of corsairs, but rather a specific kind of corsairs from Karond Kar, or special hydras/manticores from Clar Karond.
  • steph74steph74 Junior Member Posts: 1,033Registered Users
    True in theory, hard to put in practice.

    Even if Empire has "better" archer in Stirland, they can still have them everywhere. Same for Greatswords, Handgunners, Spearmen, etc... So you could have a balanced army everywhere, with some bonus from specific region.

    But if we apply this to the High Elves, then they would have Swordsmasters only Saphery, White Lions only in Chrace, Dragon Princes only in Caledor, Phoenix Guards only in the Shrine of Asuryan, Chariots only in Tiranoc, Reavers only in Ellyrion, Sea Guards only in Lothern...

    And so the only units the HE could recruit in any region would be Spearmen, Archers and Silver Helms...

    This may give a very different strategy, but it could be quite unbalanced compared to other races.

    So in my mo, SWO-RD, I used a different approach.

    I have "generic" units, such as Swordsmen, Axeme, Reavers.... They can be recruited anywhere (including outside of Ulthuan) but are waker/more expensive (-5 morale, 100 men instead of 120...).

    And I have the unique units, Swordmasters of Hoeth, White Lion of Chrace, Ellyrian Reavers, etc... which are stronger (no penalty, full strength) but are recruitable in only one province.








  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,817Registered Users
    First, strictly speaking, the chariots are specialised. There are three types, but each is associated with a specific kingdom...

    Draxynnic said:

    The Dark and Wood Elves kinda do have provincial variation when you go into the fluff, even if it's not as explicit as it is with the High Elves (and for the Wood Elves, their territory is a little small to attempt to truly represent their regional variation). Black Guard are based in Naggarond, Cold Ones are mostly found beneath Hag Graef although they've been spread elsewhere, Khaine stuff is mostly to be found in Har Ganeth, Beastmaster stuff in Clar Karond, and corsair stuff in Karond Kar.

    Ultimately, we're seeing regional stuff for the Empire because the Empire is relatively unusual in that there isn't much regional variation in the core list, but we know from fluff that such units do exist. Most races either aren't as well explored in the fluff, or their culture is more uniform to begin with and thus less likely to spawn variations.

    As Draxynnic mentioned, the Dark Elf and High Elf rosters are pretty much already based around regional units coming together. Dragon Knights are from Caledor, White Lions from Chrace, Swordmasters from Saphery, and so on, for example.
    As I explained above, I argue that it is not the same for dark elves at least. The empire has regional specialities the same way dark elves do, Stirland has the best archers, Nuln makes the best artillery, Averland has some of the best horses. Despite this no one would say that the exsistence of cannons for empire = regional representation for Wissenland. The same way, most dark elf units are present in all cities. Regional representation would not be the existence of corsairs, but rather a specific kind of corsairs from Karond Kar, or special hydras/manticores from Clar Karond.
    Sure. However, in-game the dark elf regional character is represented by cities having landmark buildings that incentivises producing their specialty unit there. Which is all the High Elves get as well - yes, the units are all described as coming from a specific province, but there's nothing preventing recruiting such "province-specific" units in, say, the Turtle Isles.

    More significantly, most of those regional variations you talk about aren't present in the fluff. There is no special variation of corsairs that only come from Karond Kar, it's just that Karond Kar has a high proportion of corsairs because it's the main launch point. (And harpies. Don't forget the harpies. The Dark Elves of Karond Kar have a superstition about the harpies.)

    The Empire is somewhat unique in that there are a bunch of units that are mentioned as existing in the fluff, but which were either limited to special province-specific lists or never implemented at all on the tabletop. It's something that's well established in the fluff that the Empire and the High Elves have more internal cultural variation than most races, as each is a collection of semi-independent states that each have their own cultures but which usually agree to work together to present a common front to the rest of the world. This contrasts with counterparts like the Dark Elves and Bretonnia, where while there is some regional differentiation, there is a greater degree of homogeneity and the distinctions are usually much more subtle.
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Posts: 137Registered Users
    I wouldn’t mind seeing some special units for other races in certain places.

    Why not let High Elves recruit White Lion Chariots from Chrace?
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