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Shameless Beastmen buffs and nerfs (mostly buffs)

FerrousTarkusFerrousTarkus Posts: 525Registered Users
Beastlord
  • Vanguard deployment
  • Stalk
  • Bronze shield (visually and stats)
  • Horn of the first beast = duration 60 seconds from 35
  • Bonus vs large 20
  • Removed the chariot option
Morghur
  • Reduced missile resistance from 75% to 15%
Khazrak the One-Eye
  • Scrouge = constant
  • The dark mail = lower melee attack by 4 when in combat/Give 25% magic resist
  • Chariot = Hide in forest
Malagor the dark omen
  • Vanguard deployment
  • Magic resistance 25%
Great Bray-Shaman (Shadows)
Great Bray-Shaman (Beast)
Great Bray-Shaman (Death)
Great Bray-Shaman (Wild)

Gorebull
  • -100g
  • Hide in the Forest
Lore of the wild
  • Savage dominion = Summon time increased from 96 seconds to 120 seconds
Primal fury
  • disabled if: leadership is lower than 40%(from 50%)
Ungor spearmen (with//without shields and RoR)
  • Vanguard deployment
Gor herds (shields) / Ungor herds(shields)
  • Removed vanguard deployment
RazorGor Chariots/Razorgor/Chaos Spawn/Minotaurs(all kind)/cygor(all kinds)/giant
  • Hide in forest
Justification:

Most of the buff are to bring other beast lords on par with Morghur which is ridiculously overpowered versus them. I gave the beastlord a different role than Khazrak. He is to be mostly deployed in vanguard and his stalk and bronze shield will help him a lot versus ranged heavy factions such as Skavens for instance. I also Nerfed the ridiculous missile resist from Morghur and gave his magic resist to both Khazrack and Malagor to mitigate the toxic spirit leach snipping espcially since unlike him, they dont regenarate.

Added the 4 lords great-bray shaman with all the available lores for the beastmen. Because 4 reskined shamans versus 14 uniques lords for the vampires counts or the 10 lords with different lores and weapons combination for the vampire coast is really not much to ask.

Gorebull got a price reduction since even though its a decent unit, it barely get picked because of the bugged animations.

Lore of the wild Cygor summon was useless since the nerf to summon because it didnt stay up long enough. It also indirectly buff Malagor, his saving grace.

Primal fury, thats probably the buff that Im less confident about, let me know what you think about it.

Now, every units can hide in the forest for obvious reasons. Traded the vanguard deployment away from the shielded units and gave it to the Ungor. Most of the time people will want to vanguard the archers but without any spears to defend them that tactic is mostly going to fail, thats why its these guys that should get it and not the shielded units which bring nothing in that case, they will be run over by cavalry or monsters. I left it on the Gor herd because they are a damage dealing units and I can understand the use.

That being said, beastmen really could use a Doombull lord, centigor lord and the MISSING wargor which should give buffs à la Grail-reliquae. But I can keep on dreaming!

Comments

  • Wyvern2Wyvern2 Posts: 1,358Registered Users
    Beastlord -
    Vanguard I get. Rest of the overhaul, why? It makes no sense, and 60 seconds on horn of first beast would be insane.

    Khazrak -
    Permanent Scourge? How about no. Khazrak might not be insane, but giving him permanent +26/26 MA/MD is ludicrous.

    Morghur -
    Why? So he can be sniped super easily? So fireball deletes him in 2 casts or something? How about no. Other beastmen lords might need buffs to be more competitive, but besides maybe summons, Morghur is hardly OP ATM. He just fulfills the most critical function beastmen need in a lord, survivability.

    Malagor - Sure

    Gorebull - Sure

    Lore of Wild -
    No. You can no longer spawn a cygor and have it lob boulders for days, but if summoned into combat it can be a very potent damage dealer and screw with your opponent a lot. If it got a duration buff, a WoM nerf would be needed.

    Primal Fury - Sure I guess? Might need nerfs to cost on some BM infantry though, especially the more elite ones. I think its fine as is now, the bigger problem is that overall BM LD is trash. Bestigors only have like 66 iirc, and theyre the "elite". Losing half of that isnt hard, and once its gone you snowball to oblivion as psychology kicks in. The only stable BM units are minos, giants and gorebulls.

    Ungor Spears - Yes

    Gor Shields/Ungor shields - Hell no.

    Assorted hide - Sure
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  • MrMecHMrMecH Posts: 2,099Registered Users

    Beastlord

    • Vanguard deployment
    • Stalk
    • Bronze shield (visually and stats)
    • Horn of the first beast = duration 60 seconds from 35
    • Bonus vs large 20
    • Removed the chariot option
    Beastlord with your advice look very awkward. I think add Vanguard Deployment and buff Horn of the First Beast is enough.


    Morghur

    • Reduced missile resistance from 75% to 15%
    No No No. Missile Resistance is his selling point.

    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

  • ystyst Posts: 6,069Registered Users
    Perma darkmail is pretty much compulsory. That thing been trash since 2016.

    Missing vanguards and assorted hide for sure. Rest r insane lol, humorous tho, hope CA has a grand plan for beasties
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  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 4,429Registered Users
    You left out the cygor - needs to be cheaper.

    Also, I don't think gors should lose vanguard. If you really want a vanguard army option you need a real unit.
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 5,171Registered Users
    eumaies said:

    You left out the cygor - needs to be cheaper.

    no it doesn't.
  • FerrousTarkusFerrousTarkus Posts: 525Registered Users
    edited September 4
    Wyvern2 said:

    Beastlord -
    Vanguard I get. Rest of the overhaul, why? It makes no sense, and 60 seconds on horn of first beast would be insane.

    Because he is a copy of Khazrak but worse, with my changes he can actually fill a role. The role of a cheap lord who can fight amongst troops, take ranged fire and buff their morale. Because with a shield and stalk he can actually close in on ranged faction such as Skavens. He is basically a Black-Horn ravager lord, stalk, vanguard and shield. I dont understand how thats a stretch? You know gors are not limited to whips.

    Really, 25 more seconds is insane? For 225 gold I would still consider not taking it.
    Wyvern2 said:


    Khazrak -
    Permanent Scourge? How about no. Khazrak might not be insane, but giving him permanent +26/26 MA/MD is ludicrous.

    True my bad, I forgot about the MA/MD buffs, what I meant is to give him poison attacks constant. He can keep is buff of 26 MA/MD as an active with a relative price reduction. Its meant to give him almost as much ability to survive as Morghur. Even then, morghur have regeneration, so his only use is with a chariot.
    Wyvern2 said:


    Morghur -
    Why? So he can be sniped super easily? So fireball deletes him in 2 casts or something? How about no. Other beastmen lords might need buffs to be more competitive, but besides maybe summons, Morghur is hardly OP ATM. He just fulfills the most critical function beastmen need in a lord, survivability.

    Pretty sure his ranged resistance is toward archers projectiles, not spells. Its way overtuned compared to the other lords. Why the other beastmen lords shouldnt have 75% range resist in that case? I simply brought him to the other lords level, and even then he have regenaration and two chaos spawn summons. You have to be really biased not to see how Morghur, even with that nerf, is still the top choice in many situation.
    Wyvern2 said:


    Malagor - Sure

    Gorebull - Sure

    Good thank you.
    Wyvern2 said:


    Lore of Wild -
    No. You can no longer spawn a cygor and have it lob boulders for days, but if summoned into combat it can be a very potent damage dealer and screw with your opponent a lot. If it got a duration buff, a WoM nerf would be needed.

    Primal Fury - Sure I guess? Might need nerfs to cost on some BM infantry though, especially the more elite ones. I think its fine as is now, the bigger problem is that overall BM LD is trash. Bestigors only have like 66 iirc, and theyre the "elite". Losing half of that isnt hard, and once its gone you snowball to oblivion as psychology kicks in. The only stable BM units are minos, giants and gorebulls.

    I tested it and 30 more seconds enable them to lob about 1/5 of their ammo. Right now its not really worth the WoM and heavily nerfed malagor.

    Yes exactly, beastmen lose that buff so quickly I believe it should be redesigned. Norsca buff is so much more interesting. But yet they are still viable, maybe lowering it to 40% would be enough?
    Wyvern2 said:


    Ungor Spears - Yes

    Gor Shields/Ungor shields - Hell no.

    Assorted hide - Sure

    Taking and giving, they could keep it for all I care, it wouldnt help much other than promote vanguard rush from the front which I disagree with. For me vanguard is meant to be used as an ambush, not as a way to close the gap more quickly.

    That being said, those that find these changes "humorous" or "insane" please tell me how the current lords are viable choice versus morghur?

    For reference Morghur have:

    Poison attacks
    75% missile resist
    25% magic resist
    Encourage
    Hide forest
    Immune to psychology
    Regeneration
    2x chaos spawn summons for 0 WOM (and one of them finish an enemy unit)

    Foe seeker
    Call of violence

    Meanwhile, the other lords dont have near half of that... and some of them cost more!
  • FerrousTarkusFerrousTarkus Posts: 525Registered Users
    edited September 6
    Duplicate***
    Post edited by FerrousTarkus on
  • Smitty404Smitty404 Posts: 302Registered Users
    Cygors are too accurate at too good of a range.

    They should either get a range reduction more than anything.
  • hanenhanen Posts: 347Registered Users
    @FerrousTarkus

    Yes, Morghur is the best pick in most cases but not because he is OP but rather because the other choices are pretty meh.

    Lord sniping is very common making the other picks risky. You have limited mobility and no access to healing.
  • UagrimUagrim Posts: 657Registered Users


    Wyvern2 said:


    Morghur -
    Why? So he can be sniped super easily? So fireball deletes him in 2 casts or something? How about no. Other beastmen lords might need buffs to be more competitive, but besides maybe summons, Morghur is hardly OP ATM. He just fulfills the most critical function beastmen need in a lord, survivability.

    Pretty sure his ranged resistance is toward archers projectiles, not spells. Its way overtuned compared to the other lords. How come the other beastmen lords dont get the 75% range resist? I simply brought him to the other lords level, and even then he have regenaration and two chaos spawn summons. You have to be really biased not to see how Morghur, even with that nerf, is still the top choice in many situation.

    Shields only work for small arms (Archers, Handguners)

    Missile resistance effects EVERY projectile artillery and magic missiles included.
  • FerrousTarkusFerrousTarkus Posts: 525Registered Users
    edited September 5
    hanen said:

    @FerrousTarkus

    Yes, Morghur is the best pick in most cases but not because he is OP but rather because the other choices are pretty meh.

    Lord sniping is very common making the other picks risky. You have limited mobility and no access to healing.

    Exactly my point, yet the buffs proposed are labeled as insane even though morghur is still a better pick. Thats how strong he is.

    As much as I have a beastmen bias morghur is certainly one of the best lord in the whole game, if not the best foot lord.

    Does this mean the other beastmen lords need to be that overtuned to make beastmen viable?
    Uagrim said:


    Wyvern2 said:


    Morghur -
    Why? So he can be sniped super easily? So fireball deletes him in 2 casts or something? How about no. Other beastmen lords might need buffs to be more competitive, but besides maybe summons, Morghur is hardly OP ATM. He just fulfills the most critical function beastmen need in a lord, survivability.

    Pretty sure his ranged resistance is toward archers projectiles, not spells. Its way overtuned compared to the other lords. How come the other beastmen lords dont get the 75% range resist? I simply brought him to the other lords level, and even then he have regenaration and two chaos spawn summons. You have to be really biased not to see how Morghur, even with that nerf, is still the top choice in many situation.

    Shields only work for small arms (Archers, Handguners)

    Missile resistance effects EVERY projectile artillery and magic missiles included.
    Then its even better if its true... Then how come the other beastmen lords dont get it? It seems some players think its necessary.
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