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Khainite Assassin Leadership

Odysseus95Odysseus95 Registered Users Posts: 163
Another day, another topic.

I noticed that the Khainite Assassin has relatively low leadership (65).

Do you think he could he use a leadership buff? +5/10? (I might even go as far and say +10, personally)

What do you guys think? Let me know!

Comments

  • ParmigianoParmigiano Registered Users Posts: 750
    This unit needs more buffs than that.
  • DeludeDelude Registered Users Posts: 310
    The Khainite Assassin needs more than a leadership shift. It blew my mind that he got skipped over for the foot character cost decrease.

    It'd be interesting to give him an ability that reduced a target's missile resist or something, y'know, to facilitate assassination; but a more realistic fix would just be a cost reduction.
  • zer0izer0i Registered Users Posts: 336
    I think he got a triple buff of vanguard, poison and a cost reduction like a patch or two ago so they probably didn't feel the need to buff him again right away.

    65 is prob fine, the paladin has 65.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,157
    zer0 said:

    I think he got a triple buff of vanguard, poison and a cost reduction like a patch or two ago so they probably didn't feel the need to buff him again right away.

    65 is prob fine, the paladin has 65.

    Yeah I think it's an OK unit, but somehow I more expected DE assassin to get a buff rather than the SKV assassin.... that one was unexpected...
  • DeludeDelude Registered Users Posts: 310
    Skaven got a number of buffs for no real reason.

    The only buffs they actually deserved that they got were warpfire thrower (it'll still suck) and storm vermin halberds. The Skaven assassin was already extremely strong. And yet he got his cost reduced, but not the Khainite that we never see. In addition, the Khainite's item got nerfed.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,931
    edited September 2019
    in my opinion Skaven buffs that were unwarramted were:
    1) Assassin -50g, already very strong and has top-notch item selection
    2) Globadiers, you can only buff a unit so many times before it becomes OP. At close range, these guys have the performance of Trollhammer Torpedoes currently and for almost 1/2 the cost.
    3) Censer Bearers, situational but good unit, the problem is that you generally only want 1 and in that case you pick the RoR which is underpriced. But they didn’t need a buff, test the melee time of them vs 800g Wardancers for example to see this. They rout the Wardancers in seconds.

    At the same time, I’m happy with a number of nerfs, including nerfs to lore of Plague and Warpstone Armor. Jezails needed a firmer push (especially RoR) but let’s wait and see.

    WLC HP on the model could have been buffed by 20%.
  • Odysseus95Odysseus95 Registered Users Posts: 163
    Can we please stay on topic? I'm not a moderator, but even I can see that the topic is about the Khainite Assassin.
  • OrkLadsOrkLads Registered Users Posts: 1,875
    Green0 said:

    in my opinion Skaven buffs that were unwarramted were:
    1) Assassin -50g, already very strong and has top-notch item selection
    2) Globadiers, you can only buff a unit so many times before it becomes OP. At close range, these guys have the performance of Trollhammer Torpedoes currently and for almost 1/2 the cost.
    3) Censer Bearers, situational but good unit, the problem is that you generally only want 1 and in that case you pick the RoR which is underpriced. But they didn’t need a buff, test the melee time of them vs 800g Wardancers for example to see this. They rout the Wardancers in seconds.

    At the same time, I’m happy with a number of nerfs, including nerfs to lore of Plague and Warpstone Armor. Jezails needed a firmer push (especially RoR) but let’s wait and see.

    WLC HP on the model could have been buffed by 20%.

    Skaven assassin got cost reduction in line with all other melee only lords/characters. Every faction has the foot variants of their melee heroes given a cost decrease.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,931
    edited September 2019
    OrkLads said:

    Green0 said:

    in my opinion Skaven buffs that were unwarramted were:
    1) Assassin -50g, already very strong and has top-notch item selection
    2) Globadiers, you can only buff a unit so many times before it becomes OP. At close range, these guys have the performance of Trollhammer Torpedoes currently and for almost 1/2 the cost.
    3) Censer Bearers, situational but good unit, the problem is that you generally only want 1 and in that case you pick the RoR which is underpriced. But they didn’t need a buff, test the melee time of them vs 800g Wardancers for example to see this. They rout the Wardancers in seconds.

    At the same time, I’m happy with a number of nerfs, including nerfs to lore of Plague and Warpstone Armor. Jezails needed a firmer push (especially RoR) but let’s wait and see.

    WLC HP on the model could have been buffed by 20%.

    Skaven assassin got cost reduction in line with all other melee only lords/characters. Every faction has the foot variants of their melee heroes given a cost decrease.
    yes I'm aware but Skaven assassin was also mildly OP. If anything it needed +50g. Considering that this patch was meant to buff foot lords, I think he could have stayed unchanged. It's mostly his items really. They are all really crazy. But stats are very good too for the cost and for example 2 Assassins can duel comfortably a mid-armor monster (e.g. Carnosaur) with or without their items.
  • keroro7keroro7 Registered Users Posts: 222
    Give up, brothers, the elven hate without reason will not go away, so it will be weaker, never get stronger because the majority of ignorant people's opinions are directed to the patch, they won't stop doing this stupid things until their popular faction wins without micro. I'd rather remove the elf factions for the next patch. now De never beat Chaos. more powerful monsters, cav, vanguard yes, no matched. they will continue to buff popular and no thinking rush factions, so throwing away the elves and doing other factions will be good for your mental health. o:)
  • DeludeDelude Registered Users Posts: 310
    OrkLads said:

    Green0 said:

    in my opinion Skaven buffs that were unwarramted were:
    1) Assassin -50g, already very strong and has top-notch item selection
    2) Globadiers, you can only buff a unit so many times before it becomes OP. At close range, these guys have the performance of Trollhammer Torpedoes currently and for almost 1/2 the cost.
    3) Censer Bearers, situational but good unit, the problem is that you generally only want 1 and in that case you pick the RoR which is underpriced. But they didn’t need a buff, test the melee time of them vs 800g Wardancers for example to see this. They rout the Wardancers in seconds.

    At the same time, I’m happy with a number of nerfs, including nerfs to lore of Plague and Warpstone Armor. Jezails needed a firmer push (especially RoR) but let’s wait and see.

    WLC HP on the model could have been buffed by 20%.

    Skaven assassin got cost reduction in line with all other melee only lords/characters. Every faction has the foot variants of their melee heroes given a cost decrease.
    Except that the Khainite did not get this, and the already stronger Skaven assassin did.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Registered Users Posts: 2,915
    Delude said:

    OrkLads said:

    Green0 said:

    in my opinion Skaven buffs that were unwarramted were:
    1) Assassin -50g, already very strong and has top-notch item selection
    2) Globadiers, you can only buff a unit so many times before it becomes OP. At close range, these guys have the performance of Trollhammer Torpedoes currently and for almost 1/2 the cost.
    3) Censer Bearers, situational but good unit, the problem is that you generally only want 1 and in that case you pick the RoR which is underpriced. But they didn’t need a buff, test the melee time of them vs 800g Wardancers for example to see this. They rout the Wardancers in seconds.

    At the same time, I’m happy with a number of nerfs, including nerfs to lore of Plague and Warpstone Armor. Jezails needed a firmer push (especially RoR) but let’s wait and see.

    WLC HP on the model could have been buffed by 20%.

    Skaven assassin got cost reduction in line with all other melee only lords/characters. Every faction has the foot variants of their melee heroes given a cost decrease.
    Except that the Khainite did not get this, and the already stronger Skaven assassin did.
    Except that the Khainite has ranged attack no?
  • OrkLadsOrkLads Registered Users Posts: 1,875
    Delude said:

    OrkLads said:

    Green0 said:

    in my opinion Skaven buffs that were unwarramted were:
    1) Assassin -50g, already very strong and has top-notch item selection
    2) Globadiers, you can only buff a unit so many times before it becomes OP. At close range, these guys have the performance of Trollhammer Torpedoes currently and for almost 1/2 the cost.
    3) Censer Bearers, situational but good unit, the problem is that you generally only want 1 and in that case you pick the RoR which is underpriced. But they didn’t need a buff, test the melee time of them vs 800g Wardancers for example to see this. They rout the Wardancers in seconds.

    At the same time, I’m happy with a number of nerfs, including nerfs to lore of Plague and Warpstone Armor. Jezails needed a firmer push (especially RoR) but let’s wait and see.

    WLC HP on the model could have been buffed by 20%.

    Skaven assassin got cost reduction in line with all other melee only lords/characters. Every faction has the foot variants of their melee heroes given a cost decrease.
    Except that the Khainite did not get this, and the already stronger Skaven assassin did.
    Khainite should have got the cost reduction as well. Especially when Waystalker & Handmaiden both got -100 on foot.
  • OrkLadsOrkLads Registered Users Posts: 1,875
    edited September 2019
    keroro7 said:

    Give up, brothers, the elven hate without reason will not go away, so it will be weaker, never get stronger because the majority of ignorant people's opinions are directed to the patch, they won't stop doing this stupid things until their popular faction wins without micro. I'd rather remove the elf factions for the next patch. now De never beat Chaos. more powerful monsters, cav, vanguard yes, no matched. they will continue to buff popular and no thinking rush factions, so throwing away the elves and doing other factions will be good for your mental health. o:)

    derogatory_wanking_gesture.gif
    Post edited by OrkLads on
  • DeludeDelude Registered Users Posts: 310
    OrkLads said:

    Delude said:

    OrkLads said:

    Green0 said:

    in my opinion Skaven buffs that were unwarramted were:
    1) Assassin -50g, already very strong and has top-notch item selection
    2) Globadiers, you can only buff a unit so many times before it becomes OP. At close range, these guys have the performance of Trollhammer Torpedoes currently and for almost 1/2 the cost.
    3) Censer Bearers, situational but good unit, the problem is that you generally only want 1 and in that case you pick the RoR which is underpriced. But they didn’t need a buff, test the melee time of them vs 800g Wardancers for example to see this. They rout the Wardancers in seconds.

    At the same time, I’m happy with a number of nerfs, including nerfs to lore of Plague and Warpstone Armor. Jezails needed a firmer push (especially RoR) but let’s wait and see.

    WLC HP on the model could have been buffed by 20%.

    Skaven assassin got cost reduction in line with all other melee only lords/characters. Every faction has the foot variants of their melee heroes given a cost decrease.
    Except that the Khainite did not get this, and the already stronger Skaven assassin did.
    Khainite should have got the cost reduction as well. Especially when Waystalker & Handmaiden both got -100 on foot.
    I agree 100%. The one good thing it had, the web of shadows, was nerfed in the patch, and it's one of the only foot characters skipped over in the cost reduction.

    **** blew my mind.
  • OrkLadsOrkLads Registered Users Posts: 1,875
    Delude said:

    OrkLads said:

    Delude said:

    OrkLads said:

    Green0 said:

    in my opinion Skaven buffs that were unwarramted were:
    1) Assassin -50g, already very strong and has top-notch item selection
    2) Globadiers, you can only buff a unit so many times before it becomes OP. At close range, these guys have the performance of Trollhammer Torpedoes currently and for almost 1/2 the cost.
    3) Censer Bearers, situational but good unit, the problem is that you generally only want 1 and in that case you pick the RoR which is underpriced. But they didn’t need a buff, test the melee time of them vs 800g Wardancers for example to see this. They rout the Wardancers in seconds.

    At the same time, I’m happy with a number of nerfs, including nerfs to lore of Plague and Warpstone Armor. Jezails needed a firmer push (especially RoR) but let’s wait and see.

    WLC HP on the model could have been buffed by 20%.

    Skaven assassin got cost reduction in line with all other melee only lords/characters. Every faction has the foot variants of their melee heroes given a cost decrease.
    Except that the Khainite did not get this, and the already stronger Skaven assassin did.
    Khainite should have got the cost reduction as well. Especially when Waystalker & Handmaiden both got -100 on foot.
    I agree 100%. The one good thing it had, the web of shadows, was nerfed in the patch, and it's one of the only foot characters skipped over in the cost reduction.

    **** blew my mind.
    Trophy heads is good.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,931
    this is not a competition toward the bottom for who has the cheapest assassins. Khainite assassins are balanced, Skaven ones too cheap, it's as simple as that. Going by "he has that so I must too!" mantra is generally a very bad idea for balancing.
  • DeludeDelude Registered Users Posts: 310
    Khainites needed something long before the skaven assassin got anything.

    It's not "Gosh, Johnny, why do you get candy and not me!?"

    so much as

    "**** off, Johnny, you already have candy".

    Khainite has been extremely "meh" for a while. Even if foot characters weren't getting -50g here, -100g there, he still could've done with the -50g that he didn't get.

    Now that everyone else is getting the candy, it just makes him even worse in comparison because he actually needed a little help.
  • zer0izer0i Registered Users Posts: 336
    The Assassin and loremaster just got the candy last round of patches so were skipped for this one.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,931
    edited September 2019
    idk for 700g you get:

    70 MA
    42 MD
    350 WS

    this makes him already a very good duelist that a lot of even lord-tier characters need to be scared of. The biggest selling point of the DE Assassin is the ranged attack really. Over the course of a long battle, it can wear down a lot of things, including Dragons, Greatswords, mid-tier cavalry. If you find this ranged attack useless, or think you won't be able to capitalize on it (e.g. you're on a small map and the opponent is a rush faction), then you should probably go for a Death Hag or a lord on Dragon instead.

    On top of that, you get poison attacks in ranged and in melee, stalk, vanguard and ItP.

    I don't think asking for cost reductions for this character is warranted, rather they should revert the buff Skaven assassins got or make Rival Hide Talisman cost ~120g (would offset the buff he got so that naked Assassin would be buffed but full kitted Assassin would be unchanged).
  • DeludeDelude Registered Users Posts: 310
    edited September 2019
    His low AP and weapon damage means that only casters actually have anything to fear from an assassin in practice.

    He cannot be mounted and so cannot actually choose his target to a significant degree.

    His MD, HP, LD, and Armour are all low, making him fragile even if the enemy lord volunteers the duel the khainite is begging for. And the enemy lord will not do this.

    The sole use of the Khainite is to hide in the backline with web of shadows and pop it on enemy cav.
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