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The Clan Angrund campaign is different...

Lord_DrakkenLord_Drakken Posts: 37Registered Users
edited September 13 in General Discussion
Spoiler alert! If you don't want to have any idea how Belegar Ironhammer plays for the first 30 turns or so please leave this thread.

I wondered how the new fortress at the northern end of the vaults would affect the Clan Angrund campaign. I have now started 3 Clan Angrund campaigns at hard, very hard, and legendary. Some changes I noticed in the campaign.

The Skull Takerz and Black venom have been dead within a couple of turns in each game. No raiding armies show up from the north for the first 25 turns or so. This is a dramtic change as usually you have the skull takerz, black venom, and crooked moon all dropping in from time to time. This relative calm in the north leaves you to move south and properly punch the broken nose right in the face and consolidate the Vaults quickly. In the past Clan Angrund is like playing whack a mole with all of the raiding you have to chase away both north and south. If it wasn't for what happened next, I would say the campaign has gotten much easier for Belegar.

By turn 20 - 25 Skarsnik and the Crooked Moon has taken out Karak Norn. This happened in all three campaigns and he then used the underway to slip past the Empire's fort into the Vaults with 3 to 4 full armies. 2 of the armies had 3 stone throwers and 3 trolls in them. Skarsnik's army has the new arachnarok spider plus some cavalry for flanking. These armies proceeded to devastate my lone army and cities. I had a full army with the ancestors, 5 dwarf warriors, 3 longbeards, 2 rangers, 2 quarrelers, 2 grudgethrowers, and a bolt thrower. Even the ghosts couldn't hang in long enough to win the epic battles that ensued.

As the dwarfs I find it almost impossible to win when the enemy outnumbers your troops 3 or 4 to 1 while also having double the siege weaponry. In the third game I figured out a way to make it to turn 35 still alive and am getting ready to go on the offensive, but changing the difficulty level really didn't change much about how things played out. All in all an interesting experience so far.

I have seen other threads have said AI Skarsnik is cooped up and does nothing for 50 turns or more. I imagine Skarsnik is getting a special bonus because I am playing clan Angrund? If so does that mean they alter the AI start for individual campaigns? Is this only for certain rivalries? Have they done this in the past or is this new? I know this is atypical for Skarsnik from previous versions of the game, but I haven't played enough variety in the campaigns to notice how other rivalries starts are changed in a campaign due to who I choose to play. The hardest part is seeing anything happen since most of the action is taking place in the fog of war. I only see the aftermath of those distant wars.

Just though I would share. Anyone that has their experiences to add please do so.

Comments

  • Greasus_GoldtoothGreasus_Goldtooth Posts: 112Registered Users
    Pretty sure skarsnik plays diffrently when you and not the Ai are clan angrund. Atleast thats my excperience with usaually when i play any other race Crooked moon strugels to even take out karak norn, but when i play as angrund he seems to deal with them just fine.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,899Registered Users
    Crooked moon is much more powerful when you are clan Angrund
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • FlyingWarPigWithPawsFlyingWarPigWithPaws Posts: 730Registered Users
    Dont commit to the Whack a mole and instead abandon your initial Province and head to K8P. You can settle next to Karaz a Karak to confederate them and have an defensive ally. Going to Mount Gunbad for infinite cash is also useful. The Vaults are way too hard to defend if you have so many scripted doomstacks and 50% income penalty.
    Ungrim is no longer homesick.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,993Registered Users

    Dont commit to the Whack a mole and instead abandon your initial Province and head to K8P. You can settle next to Karaz a Karak to confederate them and have an defensive ally. Going to Mount Gunbad for infinite cash is also useful. The Vaults are way too hard to defend if you have so many scripted doomstacks and 50% income penalty.

    I ain't no craven that leaves the Karaks to Grobi.


    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • decourcy2decourcy2 Posts: 163Registered Users
    Also you re leaving your capital unguarded for many turns, people say this works but when I try it either Skarsnik or the Skaven take my capital. I have never been able to do the migrate to K8P early thing.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 7,028Registered Users
    edited September 13
    I only ever migrate after I’ve beaten the living snot out of Skarsnik. And I don’t abandon Izor. They funded my force, they get the protection of the Ironhammer. Also I enjoy the early game around Izor.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • BorealBoreal Posts: 308Registered Users
    It's been a while since I started a new Mortal empires campaign, but Skarsnik always used to just carve our huge chunks of the southern empire provinces.
  • FlyingWarPigWithPawsFlyingWarPigWithPaws Posts: 730Registered Users
    decourcy2 said:

    Also you re leaving your capital unguarded for many turns, people say this works but when I try it either Skarsnik or the Skaven take my capital. I have never been able to do the migrate to K8P early thing.

    Dont migrate right away. Build walls in all three settlements, get the ironbreaker landmark and get some RoR, then migrate. Its not easy, but it definitly works.
    Ungrim is no longer homesick.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 7,264Registered Users

    Crooked moon is much more powerful when you are clan Angrund

    Can anyone confirm this?

    I do know that he will bee-line straight to you. No idea on bonuses.

    As for killing the spider - your range and bolt thrower should have made short work of that thing. Use your longbeards against the trolls, brace them right before impact - remember that it takes a few seconds to initialize. As for Skarsnik having so many stacks... I don't even know @[email protected].
  • Lord_DrakkenLord_Drakken Posts: 37Registered Users
    I agree the vaults are one of the hardest areas to defend in the whole campaign. I am not sure I can abandon the area.
    It doesn't feel right? Perhaps I role play too much.

    My tactics in the battles were pretty good. I took down the arachnarok and routed the trolls with my ranged troops, also routed dozens of melee units and a few heroes/lords with the ancestors. The biggest problem was the 6 stone throwers. Considering my dwarfs are sitting in a formation protecting the ranged units the 6 stone throwers beat my two grudge throwers and my tight dwarf infantry formations took a beating. They were smart and had their stone throwers spread all over the map. Still I made it half way through the third army before I started losing the ancestral heroes. It was truly epic.

    After Skarsnik took Izor I restarted. I was surprised he attempted the same thing all three games. Only on the last one was I able to maneuver and take his armies in singles and pairs. It was interesting to say the least. With the last patch I rarely saw Skarsnik able to take out Karak Norn. Especially not so early in the game.
  • BoombastekBoombastek Posts: 2,026Registered Users
    edited September 15

    Spoiler alert! If you don't want to have any idea how Belegar Ironhammer plays for the first 30 turns or so please leave this thread.

    I wondered how the new fortress at the northern end of the vaults would affect the Clan Angrund campaign. I have now started 3 Clan Angrund campaigns at hard, very hard, and legendary. Some changes I noticed in the campaign.

    The Skull Takerz and Black venom have been dead within a couple of turns in each game. No raiding armies show up from the north for the first 25 turns or so. This is a dramtic change as usually you have the skull takerz, black venom, and crooked moon all dropping in from time to time. This relative calm in the north leaves you to move south and properly punch the broken nose right in the face and consolidate the Vaults quickly. In the past Clan Angrund is like playing whack a mole with all of the raiding you have to chase away both north and south. If it wasn't for what happened next, I would say the campaign has gotten much easier for Belegar.

    By turn 20 - 25 Skarsnik and the Crooked Moon has taken out Karak Norn. This happened in all three campaigns and he then used the underway to slip past the Empire's fort into the Vaults with 3 to 4 full armies. 2 of the armies had 3 stone throwers and 3 trolls in them. Skarsnik's army has the new arachnarok spider plus some cavalry for flanking. These armies proceeded to devastate my lone army and cities. I had a full army with the ancestors, 5 dwarf warriors, 3 longbeards, 2 rangers, 2 quarrelers, 2 grudgethrowers, and a bolt thrower. Even the ghosts couldn't hang in long enough to win the epic battles that ensued.

    As the dwarfs I find it almost impossible to win when the enemy outnumbers your troops 3 or 4 to 1 while also having double the siege weaponry. In the third game I figured out a way to make it to turn 35 still alive and am getting ready to go on the offensive, but changing the difficulty level really didn't change much about how things played out. All in all an interesting experience so far.

    I have seen other threads have said AI Skarsnik is cooped up and does nothing for 50 turns or more. I imagine Skarsnik is getting a special bonus because I am playing clan Angrund? If so does that mean they alter the AI start for individual campaigns? Is this only for certain rivalries? Have they done this in the past or is this new? I know this is atypical for Skarsnik from previous versions of the game, but I haven't played enough variety in the campaigns to notice how other rivalries starts are changed in a campaign due to who I choose to play. The hardest part is seeing anything happen since most of the action is taking place in the fog of war. I only see the aftermath of those distant wars.

    Just though I would share. Anyone that has their experiences to add please do so.

    If enemy out number you, use ambush.

    You had a low number of crossbow. Optimal number would be 8 and 2 arty. Bolt throwers kind weak.

    All crossbow had buffed dmg with last update. If I remember well you start with engeneer ghost hero, he made from your crossbow realy powerful unit.

    At game start send 1 hero to discover world, take port and trade, dwarfs had t4 resourse building and they are trade a lot stuff.

    Do not fear had 0 income when you know soon gonna be battle.

    On early oathgold made a max stuff with phys resistance, this made from your ghosts real tank unit.
  • Lord_DrakkenLord_Drakken Posts: 37Registered Users
    edited September 15
    @ Boombastiek

    I know there are ways to win in this scenario. However, I love the fact that I lost my capital a couple of times. The new fog of war has made the game a bit harder too. I like it.

    I didn't mean for this thread to ask for help. I was just letting everyone know how much more quickly Skarsnik is moving since the patch and how other greenskin factions seem to be no threat whatsoever any more. I found it interesting.

    While a lot of people have given very good advice on this thread and thank you for the input... It may sound crazy, but I actually play with a whole lot of house rules that make the game a lot harder on myself and make most of your advice unusable. (at least by me)

    House rules:

    - No lightning strikes. If the AI is smart enough to bring several stacks I have to deal with it. Without this rule I don't think I would ever lose this game. If I can't lose then I don't think a game is worth playing.
    - I can never use ambush stance to pick off armies by themselves. Dwarfs are proud. They do not hide from battle!
    - No reloading the game.
    - I never use autoresolve when it seems the game gave me an unfair advantage in the resolution chances. This seems to happen more often than I would like. So I literally fight almost all battles.
    - No using the edges of the maps except in the underway where i do allow myself to extend from side to side. (hence why I usually can't protect 8 crossbow, 2 machines on all 4 sides from flanking with only 5 heroes and 5 melee units)
    - I don't use any gunpowder units. I am role playing less techy dwarfs.
    - Self imposed unit limits in my armies. For every unit over tier 2, I have to keep more units of the tier below in the army. (2 longbeards must have 3 warriors or miners and so on.
    - My no gunpowder extends to machines. So only grudge and bolt throwers are allowed. The first siege unit in my army must be a bolt thrower (even if they are less effective) and I impose a limit of 3 total machines in each army. (The bolt thrower is actually not too bad against large creatures and large lords and heroes. It doesn't get many kills but frequently it takes out the most expensive units on the field. Sometimes it chases a lord/hero all over the field of battle dodging shots. Even if it does less damage, it still neutralizes the lord/hero while his army gets beaten. Not bad for less than 200 upkeep.)
    - I do allow up to 3 ROR in any army that can ignore my army composition rules. This gives me more variability in my armies.
    - And finally... The rule that increases difficulty the most and is my favorite campaign rule... I have to raze all settlements when I take them and resettle with the largest army in the battle. I love how tough this makes the game for expanding and it just seems right that the dwarfs would rebuild from the ground up. My clan wouldn't occupy filthy grobi or manling buildings! This leaves your army very very very (did I mention very?) vulnerable to counterattack when settling new regions. Someone mentioned this house rule to me last year. Best idea ever! It really makes the game challenging.

    Give these a try. They work for every faction and I would say raise the difficulty by more than 3 levels all by themselves.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 7,264Registered Users
    O_o

    Not to sound rude, but if you impose all kinds of handicaps on yourself it's kind of moot to talk about the campaign being too hard.

    Kudos on not saving though and accepting your lumps where given. Save-Scumming is for the weak.
  • Lord_DrakkenLord_Drakken Posts: 37Registered Users
    Itharus said:

    O_o

    Not to sound rude, but if you impose all kinds of handicaps on yourself it's kind of moot to talk about the campaign being too hard.

    Kudos on not saving though and accepting your lumps where given. Save-Scumming is for the weak.

    I don't take it as rude but I think you misunderstood the reason for my post. I didn't say the campaign was too hard? I was just noting it is different and sharing the changes that came with the new update.
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