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Dwarf Cannons vs Empire Cannons hidden changes?

thonggerthongger Registered Users Posts: 9
I understand that when TTW first came out dwarf cannons were quite a few power levels below Empire cannons. They had less range and did less damage overall.

I have a fairly clear memory that this was changed quite a long time ago so that dwarf cannons were brought on par, or to be even slightly better, than Empire cannons.

However since the last patch I noticed that Empire cannons were getting the first volleys off on my dwarf cannons and that I was losing arty duels with the Empire again, and upon closer inspection of the unit stats I realised that:

Dwarf cannons - Range of 440, damage of 213

Empire cannons, Range of 450, damage of 223

Is this intended? I've spoken to some other community members and the collective memory seems to be that, once upon a time

Dwarf cannons were weaker than Empire cannons. Then they were buffed to be equal. Now it looks like they're back to being weaker than Empire cannons despite costing the same amount?
Post edited by CA_Will#2514 on
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Comments

  • Sarmatianns#6760Sarmatianns#6760 Registered Users Posts: 4,925
    Dwarf cannons are more accurate and are much more likely to hit a smaller target, so they should perform a bit better than Empire cannons in direct arty duel.

    Arty duels between relatively similar pieces of artillery are heavily RNG based, though. You'd probably need to do over a hundred tests to get statistically meaningful results.
  • Riggsen#6588Riggsen#6588 Member Registered Users Posts: 2,616
    Dawi cannons should still beat Empire cannons in a straight arty duel, at least most of the time. As Sarmatian said though, there’s rng at play, so sometimes the Empire cannon might win. Since the launch of WH2 I’d say Dawi would win that cannon duel 66-75% of the time, and I don’t think anything has changed recently.
    "CA WHY U NU UNPOOP GAME" (Dank TW meme of 2011)
  • AENARlONAENARlON Registered Users Posts: 887
    Also dawi have +16LD and probably a smaller hitbox. They trade decently IMO.
  • nonentitynonentity Registered Users Posts: 176
    I mean sure, in a head to head duel, Dawi cannons win most of the time but it's still stupid how Emp cannons have longer range. For a faction that is supposedly "jack of all trades, master of none" Emp sure have the best of everything. Best tech, best cav, best selection of magic, etc... Guess that is just the reality of being the poster child of WHFB.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,980
    Well they still have a mega hard time dealing with dwf if thats any consolation
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • nonentitynonentity Registered Users Posts: 176
    yst said:

    Well they still have a mega hard time dealing with dwf if thats any consolation

    I think most people are approaching the matchup wrong. Emp can dictate the pace of the game and Dwarf have to react. That said, its like the only matchup Emp loses.

    P.S. Still doesn't explain why Emp have rockets and tanks and Dwarfs don't.
  • Smitty404Smitty404 Registered Users Posts: 302
    I consider Empire Cannons to be better than Dwarf cannons in real life battles (not simulations) because Empire has cheap Empire Spearmen, CAV, Flying units, and magic that will blow up cannon pieces.

    So Empire will be able to field cannons and protect them more cheaply than a Dwarf player could.

    Nothing wrong with that. Dwarfs still edge out Empire in one on one duels.

  • Lotus_Moon#2452Lotus_Moon#2452 Registered Users Posts: 12,352
    Smitty404 said:

    I consider Empire Cannons to be better than Dwarf cannons in real life battles (not simulations) because Empire has cheap Empire Spearmen, CAV, Flying units, and magic that will blow up cannon pieces.

    So Empire will be able to field cannons and protect them more cheaply than a Dwarf player could.

    Nothing wrong with that. Dwarfs still edge out Empire in one on one duels.

    Not true the slightest, dwarfs can protect their cannons way better than empire.
  • thonggerthongger Registered Users Posts: 9
    i think we're getting distracted from the original point on this discussion

    At one point in time, dwarf cannons were STATISTICALLY inferior to Empires

    They were buffed. I was under the impression they were buffed to be STATISTICALLY identical (damage and range wise) to the Empire

    But now it looks like they are statistically inferior.

    Is this intended and was it mentioned in the patch notes ever?
  • Lotus_Moon#2452Lotus_Moon#2452 Registered Users Posts: 12,352
    thongger said:

    i think we're getting distracted from the original point on this discussion

    At one point in time, dwarf cannons were STATISTICALLY inferior to Empires

    They were buffed. I was under the impression they were buffed to be STATISTICALLY identical (damage and range wise) to the Empire

    But now it looks like they are statistically inferior.

    Is this intended and was it mentioned in the patch notes ever?

    They not though, your selecting the statistics that prove your point as an example where as omitting the ones that show otherwise.

    15% more accuracy
    9% lower calibration area (positive)


    And in reality from range and Dmg view empire cannons are meant to be better than dward ones like they were on table top.

    TT great cannon had 60" range doing D6 Wounds
    Dwarf cannon had 48" range doing D3 wounds

    So it all makes sense.
  • Smitty404Smitty404 Registered Users Posts: 302

    Smitty404 said:

    I consider Empire Cannons to be better than Dwarf cannons in real life battles (not simulations) because Empire has cheap Empire Spearmen, CAV, Flying units, and magic that will blow up cannon pieces.

    So Empire will be able to field cannons and protect them more cheaply than a Dwarf player could.

    Nothing wrong with that. Dwarfs still edge out Empire in one on one duels.

    Not true the slightest, dwarfs can protect their cannons way better than empire.
    lol. Thanks for providing no information at all in your rebuttal. You must not have an argument.

    I can't see how anyone could say this. Empire Spears are one of the most cost effective defensive units, plus Empire has Cav and Flying units, plus strong offensive magic. Both factions have slow-net spells.

  • Lotus_Moon#2452Lotus_Moon#2452 Registered Users Posts: 12,352
    Smitty404 said:

    Smitty404 said:

    I consider Empire Cannons to be better than Dwarf cannons in real life battles (not simulations) because Empire has cheap Empire Spearmen, CAV, Flying units, and magic that will blow up cannon pieces.

    So Empire will be able to field cannons and protect them more cheaply than a Dwarf player could.

    Nothing wrong with that. Dwarfs still edge out Empire in one on one duels.

    Not true the slightest, dwarfs can protect their cannons way better than empire.
    lol. Thanks for providing no information at all in your rebuttal. You must not have an argument.

    I can't see how anyone could say this. Empire Spears are one of the most cost effective defensive units, plus Empire has Cav and Flying units, plus strong offensive magic. Both factions have slow-net spells.

    Dwarf warriors > empire spears for protecting cannons
    Dwarfs mass > empire mass

    Killing dwarven warmachines is way harder than empire ones as any faction.

    There is not a faction in the game that struggles vs empire warmachines but is fine vs dwarf warmachines but opposite cannot be said, there are factions that struggle vs dwarf warmachines but are fine vs empire, and that is because the whole dwarf roster can station around their warmachines and be competative where as if empire do that, they will get picked apart. There is a reason why so many dwarfs box and that is because its stupidly hard to penetrate that dwarf box, how often do you see empire boxing up?

    don't get me wrong not every dwarf boxes which is good, but dwarfs are way better at protecting their warmachines than empire by a long margin.
  • yx3768031yx3768031 Registered Users Posts: 189

    thongger said:

    i think we're getting distracted from the original point on this discussion

    At one point in time, dwarf cannons were STATISTICALLY inferior to Empires

    They were buffed. I was under the impression they were buffed to be STATISTICALLY identical (damage and range wise) to the Empire

    But now it looks like they are statistically inferior.

    Is this intended and was it mentioned in the patch notes ever?

    They not though, your selecting the statistics that prove your point as an example where as omitting the ones that show otherwise.

    15% more accuracy
    9% lower calibration area (positive)


    And in reality from range and Dmg view empire cannons are meant to be better than dward ones like they were on table top.

    TT great cannon had 60" range doing D6 Wounds
    Dwarf cannon had 48" range doing D3 wounds

    So it all makes sense.
    No they both deal D6 damage on tabletop. Dwarf artillery is strong because they have access to multiple runes that greatly improve its performance like reroll to misfire or better accuracy
  • Lotus_Moon#2452Lotus_Moon#2452 Registered Users Posts: 12,352
    yx3768031 said:

    thongger said:

    i think we're getting distracted from the original point on this discussion

    At one point in time, dwarf cannons were STATISTICALLY inferior to Empires

    They were buffed. I was under the impression they were buffed to be STATISTICALLY identical (damage and range wise) to the Empire

    But now it looks like they are statistically inferior.

    Is this intended and was it mentioned in the patch notes ever?

    They not though, your selecting the statistics that prove your point as an example where as omitting the ones that show otherwise.

    15% more accuracy
    9% lower calibration area (positive)


    And in reality from range and Dmg view empire cannons are meant to be better than dward ones like they were on table top.

    TT great cannon had 60" range doing D6 Wounds
    Dwarf cannon had 48" range doing D3 wounds

    So it all makes sense.
    No they both deal D6 damage on tabletop. Dwarf artillery is strong because they have access to multiple runes that greatly improve its performance like reroll to misfire or better accuracy
    They did not in 6th and 7th ed so it got changed into 8th?
  • Smitty404Smitty404 Registered Users Posts: 302

    Smitty404 said:

    Smitty404 said:

    I consider Empire Cannons to be better than Dwarf cannons in real life battles (not simulations) because Empire has cheap Empire Spearmen, CAV, Flying units, and magic that will blow up cannon pieces.

    So Empire will be able to field cannons and protect them more cheaply than a Dwarf player could.

    Nothing wrong with that. Dwarfs still edge out Empire in one on one duels.

    Not true the slightest, dwarfs can protect their cannons way better than empire.
    lol. Thanks for providing no information at all in your rebuttal. You must not have an argument.

    I can't see how anyone could say this. Empire Spears are one of the most cost effective defensive units, plus Empire has Cav and Flying units, plus strong offensive magic. Both factions have slow-net spells.

    Dwarf warriors > empire spears for protecting cannons
    Dwarfs mass > empire mass

    Killing dwarven warmachines is way harder than empire ones as any faction.

    There is not a faction in the game that struggles vs empire warmachines but is fine vs dwarf warmachines but opposite cannot be said, there are factions that struggle vs dwarf warmachines but are fine vs empire, and that is because the whole dwarf roster can station around their warmachines and be competative where as if empire do that, they will get picked apart. There is a reason why so many dwarfs box and that is because its stupidly hard to penetrate that dwarf box, how often do you see empire boxing up?

    don't get me wrong not every dwarf boxes which is good, but dwarfs are way better at protecting their warmachines than empire by a long margin.
    Empire spears are much more cost effective in this role.

    Dwarfs have better mass yes, but this is not a huge factor. Chariots and SEM still go straight through the Dwarf lines with no problem.

    The huge advantage Empire has is mobility. This is way more important than mass since you can split defense between 2 cannon pieces or even leave them undefended knowing that if your artillery is threatened you can return to defend quickly.

    And lol. Dwarfs box up because that is the only way to defend their back lines. Empire doesn't box up because they don't need to.
  • Lotus_Moon#2452Lotus_Moon#2452 Registered Users Posts: 12,352
    Smitty404 said:

    Smitty404 said:

    Smitty404 said:

    I consider Empire Cannons to be better than Dwarf cannons in real life battles (not simulations) because Empire has cheap Empire Spearmen, CAV, Flying units, and magic that will blow up cannon pieces.

    So Empire will be able to field cannons and protect them more cheaply than a Dwarf player could.

    Nothing wrong with that. Dwarfs still edge out Empire in one on one duels.

    Not true the slightest, dwarfs can protect their cannons way better than empire.
    lol. Thanks for providing no information at all in your rebuttal. You must not have an argument.

    I can't see how anyone could say this. Empire Spears are one of the most cost effective defensive units, plus Empire has Cav and Flying units, plus strong offensive magic. Both factions have slow-net spells.

    Dwarf warriors > empire spears for protecting cannons
    Dwarfs mass > empire mass

    Killing dwarven warmachines is way harder than empire ones as any faction.

    There is not a faction in the game that struggles vs empire warmachines but is fine vs dwarf warmachines but opposite cannot be said, there are factions that struggle vs dwarf warmachines but are fine vs empire, and that is because the whole dwarf roster can station around their warmachines and be competative where as if empire do that, they will get picked apart. There is a reason why so many dwarfs box and that is because its stupidly hard to penetrate that dwarf box, how often do you see empire boxing up?

    don't get me wrong not every dwarf boxes which is good, but dwarfs are way better at protecting their warmachines than empire by a long margin.
    Empire spears are much more cost effective in this role.

    Dwarfs have better mass yes, but this is not a huge factor. Chariots and SEM still go straight through the Dwarf lines with no problem.

    The huge advantage Empire has is mobility. This is way more important than mass since you can split defense between 2 cannon pieces or even leave them undefended knowing that if your artillery is threatened you can return to defend quickly.

    And lol. Dwarfs box up because that is the only way to defend their back lines. Empire doesn't box up because they don't need to.
    Its not, none of the best dwarf players that i know box up at all, mrgangrat and tutorial, i have not once seen them box up.
  • thonggerthongger Registered Users Posts: 9

    thongger said:

    i think we're getting distracted from the original point on this discussion

    At one point in time, dwarf cannons were STATISTICALLY inferior to Empires

    They were buffed. I was under the impression they were buffed to be STATISTICALLY identical (damage and range wise) to the Empire

    But now it looks like they are statistically inferior.

    Is this intended and was it mentioned in the patch notes ever?

    They not though, your selecting the statistics that prove your point as an example where as omitting the ones that show otherwise.

    15% more accuracy
    9% lower calibration area (positive)


    And in reality from range and Dmg view empire cannons are meant to be better than dward ones like they were on table top.

    TT great cannon had 60" range doing D6 Wounds
    Dwarf cannon had 48" range doing D3 wounds

    So it all makes sense.
    1. You're just not getting me. me, and several other players, recall in our collective memory that dwarfs post patch were at one point, had cannons that had EQUAL DAMAGE and EQUAL RANGE to cannons. Accuracy and calibration are not a part of this discussion.

    So unless you can tell me otherwise, that no, my memory is wrong, and dwarfs have always had cannons that have inferior range to empire cannons, then we can conclude this discussion.

    I dont know why for the life of me everyone and their mother keeps bringing TT cannons into discussion as well.
  • Lotus_Moon#2452Lotus_Moon#2452 Registered Users Posts: 12,352
    edited September 2019
    thongger said:

    thongger said:

    i think we're getting distracted from the original point on this discussion

    At one point in time, dwarf cannons were STATISTICALLY inferior to Empires

    They were buffed. I was under the impression they were buffed to be STATISTICALLY identical (damage and range wise) to the Empire

    But now it looks like they are statistically inferior.

    Is this intended and was it mentioned in the patch notes ever?

    They not though, your selecting the statistics that prove your point as an example where as omitting the ones that show otherwise.

    15% more accuracy
    9% lower calibration area (positive)


    And in reality from range and Dmg view empire cannons are meant to be better than dward ones like they were on table top.

    TT great cannon had 60" range doing D6 Wounds
    Dwarf cannon had 48" range doing D3 wounds

    So it all makes sense.
    1. You're just not getting me. me, and several other players, recall in our collective memory that dwarfs post patch were at one point, had cannons that had EQUAL DAMAGE and EQUAL RANGE to cannons. Accuracy and calibration are not a part of this discussion.

    So unless you can tell me otherwise, that no, my memory is wrong, and dwarfs have always had cannons that have inferior range to empire cannons, then we can conclude this discussion.

    I dont know why for the life of me everyone and their mother keeps bringing TT cannons into discussion as well.
    Yes i can tell you otherwise because your community seems misinformed.
    Here this might help you

    https://twwstats.com/unitscards

    you can select any patch and compare the two, it has been the case always in game 2, in game 1 they had same damage but lower range, plus they had bonus v large.
  • BlissBliss Registered Users Posts: 581
    I believe that in TWW1 they brought dwarven cannon range and damage on par with empire cannon, but that has been reverted in game 2. Like ethereal units : at launch of game 1, they had 75% PR, then a patch brought them to 80%PR, and then they went back to 75%PR at launch of game 2.
  • hanenhanen Registered Users Posts: 686
    thongger said:

    thongger said:

    i think we're getting distracted from the original point on this discussion

    At one point in time, dwarf cannons were STATISTICALLY inferior to Empires

    They were buffed. I was under the impression they were buffed to be STATISTICALLY identical (damage and range wise) to the Empire

    But now it looks like they are statistically inferior.

    Is this intended and was it mentioned in the patch notes ever?

    They not though, your selecting the statistics that prove your point as an example where as omitting the ones that show otherwise.

    15% more accuracy
    9% lower calibration area (positive)


    And in reality from range and Dmg view empire cannons are meant to be better than dward ones like they were on table top.

    TT great cannon had 60" range doing D6 Wounds
    Dwarf cannon had 48" range doing D3 wounds

    So it all makes sense.
    1. You're just not getting me. me, and several other players, recall in our collective memory that dwarfs post patch were at one point, had cannons that had EQUAL DAMAGE and EQUAL RANGE to cannons. Accuracy and calibration are not a part of this discussion.

    So unless you can tell me otherwise, that no, my memory is wrong, and dwarfs have always had cannons that have inferior range to empire cannons, then we can conclude this discussion.

    I dont know why for the life of me everyone and their mother keeps bringing TT cannons into discussion as well.
    Lotus answers part 2 of your question. "Now it looks like they're back to being weaker than Empire cannons despite costing the same amount?"
  • ElectorOfWurttembergElectorOfWurttemberg Registered Users Posts: 1,950
    nonentity said:


    P.S. Still doesn't explain why Emp have rockets and tanks and Dwarfs don't.


    Well, i agree that GW was stupid when designing the Dwarfs. They want to tell you that they have auto cannons on attack helicopters but still depend on muzzle loading muskets/rifles. That they have massive underway but don't have chariots, wagons, etc. for transportation. I could pick the Dwarfs apart like this, they are a pretty poorly thought out faction


    But the in-lore reason is that the Dwarfs are very techno-conservative and cautious where as the Empire is more techno-progressive and reckless.

    Of course this breaks apart when you think, the first use of the steam engine was to put it on a freaking helicopter, but what am I to say.
    Faith, Steel and Gunpowder Bows
  • griffithx#1314griffithx#1314 Registered Users Posts: 1,514
    edited September 2019
    thongger said:

    I understand that when TTW first came out dwarf cannons were quite a few power levels below Empire cannons. They had less range and did less damage overall.

    I have a fairly clear memory that this was changed quite a long time ago so that dwarf cannons were brought on par, or to be even slightly better, than Empire cannons.

    However since the last patch I noticed that Empire cannons were getting the first volleys off on my dwarf cannons and that I was losing arty duels with the Empire again, and upon closer inspection of the unit stats I realised that:

    Dwarf cannons - Range of 440, damage of 213

    Empire cannons, Range of 450, damage of 223

    Is this intended? I've spoken to some other community members and the collective memory seems to be that, once upon a time

    Dwarf cannons were weaker than Empire cannons. Then they were buffed to be equal. Now it looks like they're back to being weaker than Empire cannons despite costing the same amount?

    As I compare the stats it does seem that empire cannons are superior to dwarf cannons.
    I always thought dwarf was supposed to be the premier artillery race but comparing the stats of other weapons like hellblaster to organ gun as well it appears as if its purposely designed for empire to be a slight notch above dwarf in this area?

    Maybe it was just a misunderstanding on my part that dwarf was intended to be better in this area.

    Edit: oops nm I was looking at accuracy of wrong unit on the list for the cannons.
    Post edited by griffithx#1314 on
  • mightygloin#2446mightygloin#2446 Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 6,122

    nonentity said:


    P.S. Still doesn't explain why Emp have rockets and tanks and Dwarfs don't.


    Well, i agree that GW was stupid when designing the Dwarfs. They want to tell you that they have auto cannons on attack helicopters but still depend on muzzle loading muskets/rifles. That they have massive underway but don't have chariots, wagons, etc. for transportation. I could pick the Dwarfs apart like this, they are a pretty poorly thought out faction


    But the in-lore reason is that the Dwarfs are very techno-conservative and cautious where as the Empire is more techno-progressive and reckless.

    This has one advantage though, their tech is far more reliable and masterwork compared to high tech gizmos of other races.

  • AWizard_LizardAWizard_Lizard Registered Users Posts: 1,747

    nonentity said:


    P.S. Still doesn't explain why Emp have rockets and tanks and Dwarfs don't.


    Well, i agree that GW was stupid when designing the Dwarfs. They want to tell you that they have auto cannons on attack helicopters but still depend on muzzle loading muskets/rifles. That they have massive underway but don't have chariots, wagons, etc. for transportation. I could pick the Dwarfs apart like this, they are a pretty poorly thought out faction


    But the in-lore reason is that the Dwarfs are very techno-conservative and cautious where as the Empire is more techno-progressive and reckless.

    This has one advantage though, their tech is far more reliable and masterwork compared to high tech gizmos of other races.

    Indeed and i like that aspect of theirs, it's not a contest actually, it's always better to have things that work over and over again and you know that they 'll work, compared to have something with maxed out X attribute in the expense of others plus it will probably blow up in your face anyway.

    @ElectorOfWurttemberg has a point though, how the engineer's guild work in lore doesn't make any sense whatsoever. i.e. sure, dwarfs, as being pragmatic may find hellblaster overly engineered and prone to failure for doing basically the same job as an organ gun. But rockets are so simple, how would anyone find them ''fancy'' is beyond me. Especially someone from a nation that builds air devices of various kinds plus friggin steam battleships and submarines!

    As for steamwagons and the like, they have them in the lore but for transportation and home defense. I assume the logic is that in the mountains wagons can't move freely in a given battlefield, usually they are on rails, like trains, so... it is what it is.
    Prettiest of the foot overlords.
  • nonentitynonentity Registered Users Posts: 176

    nonentity said:


    P.S. Still doesn't explain why Emp have rockets and tanks and Dwarfs don't.


    Well, i agree that GW was stupid when designing the Dwarfs. They want to tell you that they have auto cannons on attack helicopters but still depend on muzzle loading muskets/rifles. That they have massive underway but don't have chariots, wagons, etc. for transportation. I could pick the Dwarfs apart like this, they are a pretty poorly thought out faction


    But the in-lore reason is that the Dwarfs are very techno-conservative and cautious where as the Empire is more techno-progressive and reckless.

    This has one advantage though, their tech is far more reliable and masterwork compared to high tech gizmos of other races.

    Well that aspect is not worked into the game. Still waiting for jezzails to blow themselves up.

    For a faction which lacks in many areas, you would've thought that Dawi have better warmachine selection than Emp.
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 3,182
    nonentity said:

    I mean sure, in a head to head duel, Dawi cannons win most of the time but it's still stupid how Emp cannons have longer range. For a faction that is supposedly "jack of all trades, master of none" Emp sure have the best of everything. Best tech, best cav, best selection of magic, etc... Guess that is just the reality of being the poster child of WHFB.

    This,
    I hope to see some empire nerf
    This patch they got artillery and range units buffed. Skirmish, stalk vanguard play improved
    And even better skirmish cavs that were already decent

    The only weakness is SEM but even that is usuable and decent
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 3,182

    nonentity said:


    P.S. Still doesn't explain why Emp have rockets and tanks and Dwarfs don't.


    Well, i agree that GW was stupid when designing the Dwarfs. They want to tell you that they have auto cannons on attack helicopters but still depend on muzzle loading muskets/rifles. That they have massive underway but don't have chariots, wagons, etc. for transportation. I could pick the Dwarfs apart like this, they are a pretty poorly thought out faction


    But the in-lore reason is that the Dwarfs are very techno-conservative and cautious where as the Empire is more techno-progressive and reckless.

    Of course this breaks apart when you think, the first use of the steam engine was to put it on a freaking helicopter, but what am I to say.
    As far as i understand the lore, the helo was something thorgrim it forced into action because he wants to reconquer the holds. It wasnt something supposed to be accepted that quickly

    So yes they are techno conservatives but there are exceptions
  • ElectorOfWurttembergElectorOfWurttemberg Registered Users Posts: 1,950
    edited September 2019

    nonentity said:


    P.S. Still doesn't explain why Emp have rockets and tanks and Dwarfs don't.


    Well, i agree that GW was stupid when designing the Dwarfs. They want to tell you that they have auto cannons on attack helicopters but still depend on muzzle loading muskets/rifles. That they have massive underway but don't have chariots, wagons, etc. for transportation. I could pick the Dwarfs apart like this, they are a pretty poorly thought out faction


    But the in-lore reason is that the Dwarfs are very techno-conservative and cautious where as the Empire is more techno-progressive and reckless.

    Of course this breaks apart when you think, the first use of the steam engine was to put it on a freaking helicopter, but what am I to say.
    As far as i understand the lore, the helo was something thorgrim it forced into action because he wants to reconquer the holds. It wasnt something supposed to be accepted that quickly

    So yes they are techno conservatives but there are exceptions
    Yeah, and there would be military demand for such technology. Similar to the Soviet, and later the West response to Afghanistan geography. This doesn't really come into account in game though, there are few maps, if any, that favor infantry, artillery and flying the same way regarding how we are sold this thematic.

    Also yes, there are exceptions.. but my point still stands. The idea that the Dwarfs have the autocannon and engines and the only military application of it is attack helicopters is beyond my ability to suspend disbelief.

    That said, having the Dwarfs play more like a post-1950s Cold War army would have been a bit weird too. I wouldn't push that in any serious manner for a Warhammer game.


    Faith, Steel and Gunpowder Bows
  • ParmigianoParmigiano Registered Users Posts: 763
    Dwarf cannons seem easier to kill this patch, explosive damage from trebuchet hits them more.
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