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Announcing - A Total War Saga: TROY

13

Comments

  • TemudhunTemudhun Member Registered Users Posts: 94
    If they ever do a Total War: Mythology, I hope we won't be stuck with balkanic Greece and western Anatolia. If it's only Greek mythology (which I hope it wouldn't be) I'd like to see Magna Graecia also included, as well ad Cyrenaica, the kingdom of the Bosphore, Massilia, etc.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877
    Krunch said:

    markp27 said:

    Krunch said:

    It's a Minotaur.

    Minotaurs' wore skull helmets with a fur cape?


    No. My point is that isn't what you said it was but it was a Minotaur, or more accurately it's a guy dressed up as one in circular logic that inspires the myth of the minotaur(and thus makes him more fearsome).
    Ryse: Son of Rome also had a Minotaurs like that, so maybe CA has chosen the same direction.
  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,463

    That makes practically zero sense and I have no clue what would give you an idea like that, or how you even came to such a conclusion.

    Quite simply from the story of Telephus:

    The Mysians were victorious, and the Greeks returned home, but Telephus' wound would not heal. Telephus consulted the oracle of Apollo which gave the famous reply ὁ τρώσας ἰάσεται ("your assailant will heal you"). So Telephus went to Argos to seek a cure, and there was healed by Achilles. In return Telephus agreed to guide the Greeks to Troy.
  • punic soldierpunic soldier Registered Users Posts: 105
    edited September 2019
    important aspects that CA should include in this game.
    an improved AI with respect to the last total war games, a strategy game with an easily overcome AI is not a good game.
    Although the AI has improved in the last total war games, it is still a pending issue for CA to make a good AI, especially in battle that still does things from older games of the saga such as attacking without coordination and in isolation the units and that CA I should have already arranged, among other things, to improve.
    hopefully, from a charismatic aspect to the heroes of this game, the achilles and hector models seem to me that the appearance can be improved.
    an appropriate soundtrack for the time and epic, with musical instruments of the time that is immersive in the game.
    that does not find clones in the faces of the army soldiers, that it finds variety in the faces and that finds differences both in the way of wearing hair and other aspects, between a greek and a trojan.
    also variety in the uniforms within each unit, i do not know much of this epoch, but i suppose that they would have little uniformity even in units of the same class, as it happened in the armies of the republic of rome and other armies, i know that factions in the bronze era as assyrians, babylonians, hittites had a uniformity more like imperial rome, for being more organized kingdoms, but these do not enter the game, I do not know the level of military organization in uniforms that had greeks and trojans but i think not as much as the middle eastern kingdoms of that time.
    another important aspect that the campaign map does not cover beyond the territory of what the trojan war historically says and does not include more factions and territory out of context, with which we would have a horrible and generalist campaign, which is centered and exclusive with the history and we will have a detailed and quality campaign.
    the hittites could be introduced as an event that could or could not occur as an invasion with the normans on the throne of britain, the hittites at that time an empire that would replant greeks and trojans their struggle between them, it would be interesting to implement this in the game, although it is out of history, it is logical to include this invasion event of the hittites, who approve of the weakness of the troy and the greeks, but it would be an event that would be difficult to activate in the campaign and under certain conditions that were met.
    also that it finds historical events that make the player follow the story or not according to his criteria and change the story or follow it as it happened.
    a diplomacy that is not simple and that has options that give immersion and realism.
    the resource management, buildings, recruitment,the manpower, the supply of the armies, all that is improved.
    the possible DLCs that are exclusively for the main campaign as new heroes, nothing of DLC that has nothing to do with history as it happened with the eight princes in the three kingdoms.
    the game engine that is based on the best available to the games in the saga.
    battle sounds that are new and immersive not imported from rome or attila, we don't want to hear screams and clashes of weapons from other games.
    fighting physics and battle animations of varied, non repetitive and quality.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877

    I'd of rather pure fantasy instead of this mishmash.

    Why not "historical mythology"? Accounts of the Trojan War are defined by divine interventions and heroic deeds; there's a ton of mythology to incorporate without going pure fantasy. e.g. I don't want my fleets sunk by random storm events; I want it to be a result of my failure to please Poseidon. But I also don't want sirens and harpies recruitable as standard units.
    The Historical Fantasy Genre is an Fantasy Genre in the end of the day, so looks like CA has chosen the "Historical" approach so far, I am not sure if Divine Intervention would be part of that game.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HistoricalFantasy
  • twwatchertwwatcher Registered Users Posts: 2,357
    Tayvar said:

    Memnon said:

    Trailer looks really good.But I'm disappointed there will be no naval battle again.
    Now just two important question from me-
    -Troy have two option historical and fantasy same as Three Kingdoms or not?
    -which engine use? looks like they use Warhammer II engine, but maybe I'm wrong

    I heard that Troy is going to have Mythological Creatures, Warhammer's Engine is more fitting for that, in fact the Warhammer Setting already have many Creatures from the Greek Mythology.
    No I don't think that's correct, from the FAQ:

    Will there be any mythical creatures?

    Our truth behind the myth approach has allowed us to draw from a multitude of mythology’s most renowned monsters and include them within the battlefields of Troy as realistic representations of what their true form may have been. This approach has allowed us to expand the unit diversity by including unique warriors to the roster whilst adding an extra layer of tactical versatility to the conflict.

    For example from PCGamer:

    "We already know that you'll be able to recruit a minotaur to serve as a hero, while conquering a specific region will give you access to centaurs. The minotaur, however is just a burly bloke wearing a bull's skull and wielding a massive axe. "

    The God system follows a similar track:

    Gods and Favor is a new gameplay system for a Total War Saga: TROY. Similar to our truth behind the myth approach to mythical creatures, the Greek gods within TROY are a purely spiritual representation, but they influence the game in similar ways to their Homeric counterparts. Rather than the gods directly intervening with the conflict itself, it is the faction’s belief that the gods are intervening on their behalf which determines the bonuses they receive. Afterall, the more fervently a leader devotes themselves to a deity, the more likely their people are to espouse and live those beliefs.
  • punic soldierpunic soldier Registered Users Posts: 105
    edited September 2019
    i agree with CA decision to make the game realistic and that gods and fantastic beings are not literally represented in the game, but they do have influence on the characters and armies for their beliefs.
    Post edited by punic soldier on
  • Herr_ArnulfeHerr_Arnulfe Registered Users Posts: 755
    Tayvar said:

    The Historical Fantasy Genre is an Fantasy Genre in the end of the day, so looks like CA has chosen the "Historical" approach so far, I am not sure if Divine Intervention would be part of that game.

    I'm just saying there's a middle-ground between stripping out the mythology altogether, and creating "TW: Age of Mythology". Most historians that I know would appreciate a game that respects and tries to model the actual mythology of the period.

  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877
    twwatcher said:

    Tayvar said:

    Memnon said:

    Trailer looks really good.But I'm disappointed there will be no naval battle again.
    Now just two important question from me-
    -Troy have two option historical and fantasy same as Three Kingdoms or not?
    -which engine use? looks like they use Warhammer II engine, but maybe I'm wrong

    I heard that Troy is going to have Mythological Creatures, Warhammer's Engine is more fitting for that, in fact the Warhammer Setting already have many Creatures from the Greek Mythology.
    No I don't think that's correct, from the FAQ:

    Will there be any mythical creatures?

    Our truth behind the myth approach has allowed us to draw from a multitude of mythology’s most renowned monsters and include them within the battlefields of Troy as realistic representations of what their true form may have been. This approach has allowed us to expand the unit diversity by including unique warriors to the roster whilst adding an extra layer of tactical versatility to the conflict.

    For example from PCGamer:

    "We already know that you'll be able to recruit a minotaur to serve as a hero, while conquering a specific region will give you access to centaurs. The minotaur, however is just a burly bloke wearing a bull's skull and wielding a massive axe. "

    The God system follows a similar track:

    Gods and Favor is a new gameplay system for a Total War Saga: TROY. Similar to our truth behind the myth approach to mythical creatures, the Greek gods within TROY are a purely spiritual representation, but they influence the game in similar ways to their Homeric counterparts. Rather than the gods directly intervening with the conflict itself, it is the faction’s belief that the gods are intervening on their behalf which determines the bonuses they receive. Afterall, the more fervently a leader devotes themselves to a deity, the more likely their people are to espouse and live those beliefs.
    Yea it's looks like there is not going to be real mythological creatures in that game.
  • Herr_ArnulfeHerr_Arnulfe Registered Users Posts: 755
    twwatcher said:

    For example from PCGamer:

    "We already know that you'll be able to recruit a minotaur to serve as a hero, while conquering a specific region will give you access to centaurs. The minotaur, however is just a burly bloke wearing a bull's skull and wielding a massive axe. "

    That approach to minotaurs works fine, because the legend of Theseus was centuries earlier so the real Minotaur would've already died from old age. Hopefully there will be actual sirens, harpies and a cyclops though. Achilles should also be able to obtain armour forged on Mount Olympus by Hephaestus.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,671
    Hope Special Units are not fighting alone by themselves. Hoping no sigle entity unit in Troy. Give them few numbers compared to the rest as long as they are not alone.
  • twwatchertwwatcher Registered Users Posts: 2,357

    twwatcher said:

    For example from PCGamer:

    "We already know that you'll be able to recruit a minotaur to serve as a hero, while conquering a specific region will give you access to centaurs. The minotaur, however is just a burly bloke wearing a bull's skull and wielding a massive axe. "

    That approach to minotaurs works fine, because the legend of Theseus was centuries earlier so the real Minotaur would've already died from old age. Hopefully there will be actual sirens, harpies and a cyclops though. Achilles should also be able to obtain armour forged on Mount Olympus by Hephaestus.
    The FAQ clearly states that they are aiming at the truth behind the myth so I don't think any monsters will have a literal representation. They will inspire units and hero's though to give CA leeway to produce some rather exotic rosters if they so wish.

    As to Achilles armour it could well be said in the game that people believe he wears armour forged by the Gods and thus it would add to his abilities on the battle field with suitable buffs. Its sounds like the named characters will have quest chains presumably similar to those in TWW but again the Gods will not have a literal representation so maybe he would need to seek out a shrine to Hephaestus close to Olympus to obtain it.
  • Herr_ArnulfeHerr_Arnulfe Registered Users Posts: 755
    twwatcher said:

    The FAQ clearly states that they are aiming at the truth behind the myth so I don't think any monsters will have a literal representation. They will inspire units and hero's though to give CA leeway to produce some rather exotic rosters if they so wish.

    As to Achilles armour it could well be said in the game that people believe he wears armour forged by the Gods and thus it would add to his abilities on the battle field with suitable buffs. Its sounds like the named characters will have quest chains presumably similar to those in TWW but again the Gods will not have a literal representation so maybe he would need to seek out a shrine to Hephaestus close to Olympus to obtain it.

    As long as the game allows us to squint and pretend we're bronze age heroes for whom the mythology is real, they can use whatever justifications they want. I'm curious about how they arrived at the "truth behind the myth" though, because I'm not aware of any minotaur-warriors in documented sources. IIRC the warriors of Minos did use double-bladed axes but they were mostly women.

  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877

    twwatcher said:

    The FAQ clearly states that they are aiming at the truth behind the myth so I don't think any monsters will have a literal representation. They will inspire units and hero's though to give CA leeway to produce some rather exotic rosters if they so wish.

    As to Achilles armour it could well be said in the game that people believe he wears armour forged by the Gods and thus it would add to his abilities on the battle field with suitable buffs. Its sounds like the named characters will have quest chains presumably similar to those in TWW but again the Gods will not have a literal representation so maybe he would need to seek out a shrine to Hephaestus close to Olympus to obtain it.

    As long as the game allows us to squint and pretend we're bronze age heroes for whom the mythology is real, they can use whatever justifications they want. I'm curious about how they arrived at the "truth behind the myth" though, because I'm not aware of any minotaur-warriors in documented sources. IIRC the warriors of Minos did use double-bladed axes but they were mostly women.
    A woman who cosplay a bird would be the harpy, a woman who knows to swim would be a siren.
  • Herr_ArnulfeHerr_Arnulfe Registered Users Posts: 755
    Tayvar said:

    A woman who cosplay a bird would be the harpy, a woman who knows to swim would be a siren.

    If they're portrayed convincingly enough that a bicameral mind could've perceived them as being real monsters, and they have actual powers of attraction in-game, that's fine. The minotaur example would be sufficiently convincing at battlefield size (although the elite warriors of Minos should really be women hefting wheat axes).
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,140
    markp27 said:

    That makes practically zero sense and I have no clue what would give you an idea like that, or how you even came to such a conclusion.

    Quite simply from the story of Telephus:

    The Mysians were victorious, and the Greeks returned home, but Telephus' wound would not heal. Telephus consulted the oracle of Apollo which gave the famous reply ὁ τρώσας ἰάσεται ("your assailant will heal you"). So Telephus went to Argos to seek a cure, and there was healed by Achilles. In return Telephus agreed to guide the Greeks to Troy.
    Once again, no idea how you took that passage and came to the conclusion that CA is going to cut Troy out of the map when playing as an Achaean faction. Makes absolutely no sense.
  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,463

    markp27 said:

    That makes practically zero sense and I have no clue what would give you an idea like that, or how you even came to such a conclusion.

    Quite simply from the story of Telephus:

    The Mysians were victorious, and the Greeks returned home, but Telephus' wound would not heal. Telephus consulted the oracle of Apollo which gave the famous reply ὁ τρώσας ἰάσεται ("your assailant will heal you"). So Telephus went to Argos to seek a cure, and there was healed by Achilles. In return Telephus agreed to guide the Greeks to Troy.
    Once again, no idea how you took that passage and came to the conclusion that CA is going to cut Troy out of the map when playing as an Achaean faction. Makes absolutely no sense.
    I will break it down for you.
    The Achaean were on their way to Troy when they landed at Mysian.
    The Mysian won the battle however Telephus was injured.
    The Achaean had no idea where Troy was so returned home.
    Telephus' wound would not heal.
    Telephus then consulted an Oracle and went to find Achilles to get his wound healed.
    In exchange for the healing Telephus agreed and did guide the Achaean to Troy.

    Therefore as you have pointed out, they attacked the Mysians' on their way to Troy, then it is obvious that the Achaean army had no idea where Troy was until Telephus led them there. It would be approximately a week of sailing from Greece so 10 years for them to stop and ask directions :D
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,140
    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    That makes practically zero sense and I have no clue what would give you an idea like that, or how you even came to such a conclusion.

    Quite simply from the story of Telephus:

    The Mysians were victorious, and the Greeks returned home, but Telephus' wound would not heal. Telephus consulted the oracle of Apollo which gave the famous reply ὁ τρώσας ἰάσεται ("your assailant will heal you"). So Telephus went to Argos to seek a cure, and there was healed by Achilles. In return Telephus agreed to guide the Greeks to Troy.
    Once again, no idea how you took that passage and came to the conclusion that CA is going to cut Troy out of the map when playing as an Achaean faction. Makes absolutely no sense.
    I will break it down for you.
    The Achaean were on their way to Troy when they landed at Mysian.
    The Mysian won the battle however Telephus was injured.
    The Achaean had no idea where Troy was so returned home.
    Telephus' wound would not heal.
    Telephus then consulted an Oracle and went to find Achilles to get his wound healed.
    In exchange for the healing Telephus agreed and did guide the Achaean to Troy.

    Therefore as you have pointed out, they attacked the Mysians' on their way to Troy, then it is obvious that the Achaean army had no idea where Troy was until Telephus led them there. It would be approximately a week of sailing from Greece so 10 years for them to stop and ask directions :D
    Well, then you're just being pedantic. This is mythology; you don't take it literally.
  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,463
    edited September 2019

    The siege lasted 10 years, but it took the Achaeans almost 10 years just to reach Troy. The Achaeans' fleet was scattered by a storm after setting out, then they got lost, and then they spent several years getting into all sorts of shenanigans throughout the Aegean before they even set foot on Trojan soil.

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    That makes practically zero sense and I have no clue what would give you an idea like that, or how you even came to such a conclusion.

    Quite simply from the story of Telephus:

    The Mysians were victorious, and the Greeks returned home, but Telephus' wound would not heal. Telephus consulted the oracle of Apollo which gave the famous reply ὁ τρώσας ἰάσεται ("your assailant will heal you"). So Telephus went to Argos to seek a cure, and there was healed by Achilles. In return Telephus agreed to guide the Greeks to Troy.
    Once again, no idea how you took that passage and came to the conclusion that CA is going to cut Troy out of the map when playing as an Achaean faction. Makes absolutely no sense.
    I will break it down for you.
    The Achaean were on their way to Troy when they landed at Mysian.
    The Mysian won the battle however Telephus was injured.
    The Achaean had no idea where Troy was so returned home.
    Telephus' wound would not heal.
    Telephus then consulted an Oracle and went to find Achilles to get his wound healed.
    In exchange for the healing Telephus agreed and did guide the Achaean to Troy.

    Therefore as you have pointed out, they attacked the Mysians' on their way to Troy, then it is obvious that the Achaean army had no idea where Troy was until Telephus led them there. It would be approximately a week of sailing from Greece so 10 years for them to stop and ask directions :D
    Well, then you're just being pedantic. This is mythology; you don't take it literally.
    Not sure who is being pedantic here, as I am just going off your earlier comments.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,030
    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    @CA_James

    I am curious why the steam page states the war lasted 20 years when it was a 10 year siege?

    https://www.nationalgeographic.org/thisday/apr24/fall-troy/

    The siege lasted 10 years, but it took the Achaeans almost 10 years just to reach Troy. The Achaeans' fleet was scattered by a storm after setting out, then they got lost, and then they spent several years getting into all sorts of shenanigans throughout the Aegean before they even set foot on Trojan soil.
    And there was me thinking that was what happened on the way home, after the fall of Troy.

    https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/trojan-war
    No, that's "The Returns from Troy" and The Odyssey during which the Achaeans were scattered again, this time by the Gods as punishment for their desecration of the temples during the sack of Troy.

    Before they attacked Troy the Acheans first launched expeditions against King Telephus of Mysia, and King Tenes of Tenedos (who I think were allies of Troy), and they also attacked neighboring lands belonging to Troy's allies. So although the siege of Troy lasted 10 years, a state of war had already existed between both sides for nearly 10 years before the siege began.

    Thus "the 20-year war Trojan War".
    So if CA are following that logic, then I assume Troy will not be on the map for the Greeks and their allies, but the whole of Greece will be on the map for Troy and it's allies?
    The short answer is no.

    Looking back at the many years of people on these forums frantically Googling information on the latest game, announcing how disgusted they are that CA haven't added this or that, while forgetting the main points:

    CA never lets historical accuracy get in the way of a TW game (not forgetting, this is hardly a historic setting).
    It is a sandbox game, after the first go - anything goes.

  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,463
    edited September 2019


    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    @CA_James

    I am curious why the steam page states the war lasted 20 years when it was a 10 year siege?

    https://www.nationalgeographic.org/thisday/apr24/fall-troy/

    The siege lasted 10 years, but it took the Achaeans almost 10 years just to reach Troy. The Achaeans' fleet was scattered by a storm after setting out, then they got lost, and then they spent several years getting into all sorts of shenanigans throughout the Aegean before they even set foot on Trojan soil.
    And there was me thinking that was what happened on the way home, after the fall of Troy.

    https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/trojan-war
    No, that's "The Returns from Troy" and The Odyssey during which the Achaeans were scattered again, this time by the Gods as punishment for their desecration of the temples during the sack of Troy.

    Before they attacked Troy the Acheans first launched expeditions against King Telephus of Mysia, and King Tenes of Tenedos (who I think were allies of Troy), and they also attacked neighboring lands belonging to Troy's allies. So although the siege of Troy lasted 10 years, a state of war had already existed between both sides for nearly 10 years before the siege began.

    Thus "the 20-year war Trojan War".
    So if CA are following that logic, then I assume Troy will not be on the map for the Greeks and their allies, but the whole of Greece will be on the map for Troy and it's allies?
    The short answer is no.

    Looking back at the many years of people on these forums frantically Googling information on the latest game, announcing how disgusted they are that CA haven't added this or that, while forgetting the main points:

    CA never lets historical accuracy get in the way of a TW game (not forgetting, this is hardly a historic setting).
    It is a sandbox game, after the first go - anything goes.

    Actually my original question had nothing to do with that. I asked why the steam page says the war lasted twenty years. The rest is Jack's usual attempt to troll anything I write about. I am beginning to think he has a crush on me!
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,030
    markp27 said:


    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    @CA_James

    I am curious why the steam page states the war lasted 20 years when it was a 10 year siege?

    https://www.nationalgeographic.org/thisday/apr24/fall-troy/

    The siege lasted 10 years, but it took the Achaeans almost 10 years just to reach Troy. The Achaeans' fleet was scattered by a storm after setting out, then they got lost, and then they spent several years getting into all sorts of shenanigans throughout the Aegean before they even set foot on Trojan soil.
    And there was me thinking that was what happened on the way home, after the fall of Troy.

    https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/trojan-war
    No, that's "The Returns from Troy" and The Odyssey during which the Achaeans were scattered again, this time by the Gods as punishment for their desecration of the temples during the sack of Troy.

    Before they attacked Troy the Acheans first launched expeditions against King Telephus of Mysia, and King Tenes of Tenedos (who I think were allies of Troy), and they also attacked neighboring lands belonging to Troy's allies. So although the siege of Troy lasted 10 years, a state of war had already existed between both sides for nearly 10 years before the siege began.

    Thus "the 20-year war Trojan War".
    So if CA are following that logic, then I assume Troy will not be on the map for the Greeks and their allies, but the whole of Greece will be on the map for Troy and it's allies?
    The short answer is no.

    Looking back at the many years of people on these forums frantically Googling information on the latest game, announcing how disgusted they are that CA haven't added this or that, while forgetting the main points:

    CA never lets historical accuracy get in the way of a TW game (not forgetting, this is hardly a historic setting).
    It is a sandbox game, after the first go - anything goes.

    Actually my original question had nothing to do with that. I asked why the steam page says the war lasted twenty years. The rest is Jack's usual attempt to troll anything I write about. I am beginning to think he has a crush on me!
    And he answered exactly why, the war lasted longer than the siege, making it reasonable for CA to have a 20 year time line. At that point the conversation could have ended, however, you decided it would be better to tie yourself in a philosophical knot.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,140
    markp27 said:

    The siege lasted 10 years, but it took the Achaeans almost 10 years just to reach Troy. The Achaeans' fleet was scattered by a storm after setting out, then they got lost, and then they spent several years getting into all sorts of shenanigans throughout the Aegean before they even set foot on Trojan soil.

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    That makes practically zero sense and I have no clue what would give you an idea like that, or how you even came to such a conclusion.

    Quite simply from the story of Telephus:

    The Mysians were victorious, and the Greeks returned home, but Telephus' wound would not heal. Telephus consulted the oracle of Apollo which gave the famous reply ὁ τρώσας ἰάσεται ("your assailant will heal you"). So Telephus went to Argos to seek a cure, and there was healed by Achilles. In return Telephus agreed to guide the Greeks to Troy.
    Once again, no idea how you took that passage and came to the conclusion that CA is going to cut Troy out of the map when playing as an Achaean faction. Makes absolutely no sense.
    I will break it down for you.
    The Achaean were on their way to Troy when they landed at Mysian.
    The Mysian won the battle however Telephus was injured.
    The Achaean had no idea where Troy was so returned home.
    Telephus' wound would not heal.
    Telephus then consulted an Oracle and went to find Achilles to get his wound healed.
    In exchange for the healing Telephus agreed and did guide the Achaean to Troy.

    Therefore as you have pointed out, they attacked the Mysians' on their way to Troy, then it is obvious that the Achaean army had no idea where Troy was until Telephus led them there. It would be approximately a week of sailing from Greece so 10 years for them to stop and ask directions :D
    Well, then you're just being pedantic. This is mythology; you don't take it literally.
    Not sure who is being pedantic here, as I am just going off your earlier comments.
    Yeah, I'd rather not get drawn into one of these "you said X, I responded with Y", tit-for-tat nonsense arguments.

    You asked why they said the war was 20-years long? Well there was 10 years before the actual 10-year siege where fighting took place between both sides. There's your question answered. Best of luck to ya. 👍
  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,463
    edited September 2019

    markp27 said:


    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    @CA_James

    I am curious why the steam page states the war lasted 20 years when it was a 10 year siege?

    https://www.nationalgeographic.org/thisday/apr24/fall-troy/

    The siege lasted 10 years, but it took the Achaeans almost 10 years just to reach Troy. The Achaeans' fleet was scattered by a storm after setting out, then they got lost, and then they spent several years getting into all sorts of shenanigans throughout the Aegean before they even set foot on Trojan soil.
    And there was me thinking that was what happened on the way home, after the fall of Troy.

    https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/trojan-war
    No, that's "The Returns from Troy" and The Odyssey during which the Achaeans were scattered again, this time by the Gods as punishment for their desecration of the temples during the sack of Troy.

    Before they attacked Troy the Acheans first launched expeditions against King Telephus of Mysia, and King Tenes of Tenedos (who I think were allies of Troy), and they also attacked neighboring lands belonging to Troy's allies. So although the siege of Troy lasted 10 years, a state of war had already existed between both sides for nearly 10 years before the siege began.

    Thus "the 20-year war Trojan War".
    So if CA are following that logic, then I assume Troy will not be on the map for the Greeks and their allies, but the whole of Greece will be on the map for Troy and it's allies?
    The short answer is no.

    Looking back at the many years of people on these forums frantically Googling information on the latest game, announcing how disgusted they are that CA haven't added this or that, while forgetting the main points:

    CA never lets historical accuracy get in the way of a TW game (not forgetting, this is hardly a historic setting).
    It is a sandbox game, after the first go - anything goes.

    Actually my original question had nothing to do with that. I asked why the steam page says the war lasted twenty years. The rest is Jack's usual attempt to troll anything I write about. I am beginning to think he has a crush on me!
    And he answered exactly why, the war lasted longer than the siege, making it reasonable for CA to have a 20 year time line. At that point the conversation could have ended, however, you decided it would be better to tie yourself in a philosophical knot.
    According to CA themselves, Saga's are flashpoints in history. Non-combat between two nations does not count as a flashpoint and therefore would not be included within a Saga.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,030
    edited September 2019
    meh

    Post edited by davedave1124 on
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,030
    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:


    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    @CA_James

    I am curious why the steam page states the war lasted 20 years when it was a 10 year siege?

    https://www.nationalgeographic.org/thisday/apr24/fall-troy/

    The siege lasted 10 years, but it took the Achaeans almost 10 years just to reach Troy. The Achaeans' fleet was scattered by a storm after setting out, then they got lost, and then they spent several years getting into all sorts of shenanigans throughout the Aegean before they even set foot on Trojan soil.
    And there was me thinking that was what happened on the way home, after the fall of Troy.

    https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/trojan-war
    No, that's "The Returns from Troy" and The Odyssey during which the Achaeans were scattered again, this time by the Gods as punishment for their desecration of the temples during the sack of Troy.

    Before they attacked Troy the Acheans first launched expeditions against King Telephus of Mysia, and King Tenes of Tenedos (who I think were allies of Troy), and they also attacked neighboring lands belonging to Troy's allies. So although the siege of Troy lasted 10 years, a state of war had already existed between both sides for nearly 10 years before the siege began.

    Thus "the 20-year war Trojan War".
    So if CA are following that logic, then I assume Troy will not be on the map for the Greeks and their allies, but the whole of Greece will be on the map for Troy and it's allies?
    The short answer is no.

    Looking back at the many years of people on these forums frantically Googling information on the latest game, announcing how disgusted they are that CA haven't added this or that, while forgetting the main points:

    CA never lets historical accuracy get in the way of a TW game (not forgetting, this is hardly a historic setting).
    It is a sandbox game, after the first go - anything goes.

    Actually my original question had nothing to do with that. I asked why the steam page says the war lasted twenty years. The rest is Jack's usual attempt to troll anything I write about. I am beginning to think he has a crush on me!
    And he answered exactly why, the war lasted longer than the siege, making it reasonable for CA to have a 20 year time line. At that point the conversation could have ended, however, you decided it would be better to tie yourself in a philosophical knot.
    According to CA themselves, Saga's are flashpoints in history. Non-combat between two nations does not count as a flashpoint and therefore would not be included within a Saga.
    Thrones of Britannia lasted from 878 to the events of 1066.. The Boshin War lasted 1 year in reality and lasted about 12 years on a TW long campaign.

    It's 20 years for Troy, nothing to get upset about.
  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,463
    edited September 2019


    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:


    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    @CA_James

    I am curious why the steam page states the war lasted 20 years when it was a 10 year siege?

    https://www.nationalgeographic.org/thisday/apr24/fall-troy/

    The siege lasted 10 years, but it took the Achaeans almost 10 years just to reach Troy. The Achaeans' fleet was scattered by a storm after setting out, then they got lost, and then they spent several years getting into all sorts of shenanigans throughout the Aegean before they even set foot on Trojan soil.
    And there was me thinking that was what happened on the way home, after the fall of Troy.

    https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/trojan-war
    No, that's "The Returns from Troy" and The Odyssey during which the Achaeans were scattered again, this time by the Gods as punishment for their desecration of the temples during the sack of Troy.

    Before they attacked Troy the Acheans first launched expeditions against King Telephus of Mysia, and King Tenes of Tenedos (who I think were allies of Troy), and they also attacked neighboring lands belonging to Troy's allies. So although the siege of Troy lasted 10 years, a state of war had already existed between both sides for nearly 10 years before the siege began.

    Thus "the 20-year war Trojan War".
    So if CA are following that logic, then I assume Troy will not be on the map for the Greeks and their allies, but the whole of Greece will be on the map for Troy and it's allies?
    The short answer is no.

    Looking back at the many years of people on these forums frantically Googling information on the latest game, announcing how disgusted they are that CA haven't added this or that, while forgetting the main points:

    CA never lets historical accuracy get in the way of a TW game (not forgetting, this is hardly a historic setting).
    It is a sandbox game, after the first go - anything goes.

    Actually my original question had nothing to do with that. I asked why the steam page says the war lasted twenty years. The rest is Jack's usual attempt to troll anything I write about. I am beginning to think he has a crush on me!
    And he answered exactly why, the war lasted longer than the siege, making it reasonable for CA to have a 20 year time line. At that point the conversation could have ended, however, you decided it would be better to tie yourself in a philosophical knot.
    According to CA themselves, Saga's are flashpoints in history. Non-combat between two nations does not count as a flashpoint and therefore would not be included within a Saga.
    Thrones of Britannia lasted from 878 to the events of 1066.. The Boshin War lasted 1 year in reality and lasted about 12 years on a TW long campaign.

    It's 20 years for Troy, nothing to get upset about.
    It's why I added James with a link, so I could get an answer from CA themselves. I am mainly curious why they set that length of time.

    (I may be more niggly at the moment though, as my daughter got two kittens last weekend and they are driving me nuts at night.)
  • Bogdanov89Bogdanov89 Registered Users Posts: 738
    Ancient greece/rome era is cool and all but after total warhammer i am not all that interested in a "normal humans only" sort of total war.

    Age of Mythology was phenomenal and if Total War made a game based on such a mythological world it would be a lot of fun.
    Check out the Community Bug Fix Mod on the Steam Workshop.
  • petertel123petertel123 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 758
    Man I was so hyped for a age of mythology TW, but now we're getting cosplayers with cowskulls taped to their heads, what a letdown.
    Team Bretonnia
    Team Dark Elves
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,671
    edited September 2019
    Tayvar said:

    Krunch said:

    markp27 said:

    Krunch said:

    It's a Minotaur.

    Minotaurs' wore skull helmets with a fur cape?


    No. My point is that isn't what you said it was but it was a Minotaur, or more accurately it's a guy dressed up as one in circular logic that inspires the myth of the minotaur(and thus makes him more fearsome).
    Ryse: Son of Rome also had a Minotaurs like that, so maybe CA has chosen the same direction.
    In Ryse, how many men is he fighting at a time?
    In Total War, seeing him fighting hundreds of men by himself at the same time will be annoying.

    Man I was so hyped for a age of mythology TW, but now we're getting cosplayers with cowskulls taped to their heads, what a letdown.

    It's okay to have them but they should be treated like Berserkers in Rome 2, not like Giants and Heroes in WH. They shall not be alone in one unit card. They are still humans after all.
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