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WH3 will probably have more Lord Packs than Race-Campaign Packs, or no Campaign packs at all

Lin_HuichiLin_Huichi Registered Users Posts: 473
edited September 2019 in General Discussion
Wh1 had Chaos, Beastmen, Wood Elves and Norsca as Race dlc, while only Grim and Grave and King and Warlord as Lord packs.

WH2 by contrast has Vampire Coast and Tomb kings as Race dlc and HE/DE, LM/S and Empire and LM lord packs. Only LP are left for WH2 as well, we dont know how many but I'd guess at 2 more.

With the news that Araby is not planned for WH2, and the unlikelyhood of other minor factions getting in the trilogy, LP dlc maybe the only dlc for WH3.

There aren't many major races left. 4 races for launch, 1 for preorder (they could do LP for preorder). Say we get Daemons, Chaos Dwarfs, Orge Kingdoms and Kislev as launch, with DoW as preorder (WH2 race dlc), what is left for CP for WH3?

Compared to the potential LP for WH3? (Bearing in mind cross game dlc is on the table now)

Comments

  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 1,882
    Maybe will not have classic Lord pack in game 3 but eight Cross Lord packs. Game 3 races vs all core races from game 1 and 2.
    Dwarfs need Slayer Lord pack: https://imgur.com/x74HxxU
  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Registered Users Posts: 1,475
    Cathay, hobgoblin khanate.
    But yeah Nagash could be easily LP, like some other subfactions.
    At the end they coukd easily decide to make even Araby as a faction pack.

    But fleshing out existing factions, giving them more diverse subfactions is very good too.

    For example:

    Mung and kurgan subfactions for norsca.

    They could planning to do an arabian DoW LL which will get some more reskinbed araby units, while some of the more complex units like camel rider and war elephants could be very good for the whole DoW race. The benefit from thus is, CA can easily create TEB and Araby AI factions (like bretonnia AI in the start) to give more flavour.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 6,631
    Possible. I suspect someone higher up slashed the budget after Tomb Kings.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,748
    I largely agree especially since the last LP left a pretty clear gap for a new Empire Lp theme around Knights and Hellborg, but on Armybook only I mind add.


    Also it is hard to argue the point that we run out of races.

    I mean that we ever had a game or game series where the missing of Araby can be a disappointment is kinda amazing in many ways especial if you have been a fan for a long time and used to have games who never even featured all armybook races (which mean that the classic, like the Empire Dwarf, GS and so on) where of course fine.
    But try to find games that allow you to play as WE, TK or BR prior to TW let alone Norsca, and I don't think you will have much luck.


    But to the point:
    It is still possible that the list of Wh2 races gets one more with the pre order, which would be DoW most certainly at this point.

    But still given the map of Wh3, it is likely that we won't see alot of race packs if any.
    Even filling the 4 core races will need to have some creativity on behalf of CA.




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  • Shomy9342Shomy9342 Registered Users Posts: 343
    edited September 2019
    _Mad_D0c_ said:

    Cathay, hobgoblin khanate.
    But yeah Nagash could be easily LP, like some other subfactions.
    At the end they coukd easily decide to make even Araby as a faction pack.

    But fleshing out existing factions, giving them more diverse subfactions is very good too.

    For example:

    Mung and kurgan subfactions for norsca.

    They could planning to do an arabian DoW LL which will get some more reskinbed araby units, while some of the more complex units like camel rider and war elephants could be very good for the whole DoW race. The benefit from thus is, CA can easily create TEB and Araby AI factions (like bretonnia AI in the start) to give more flavour.

    Even if they don't make Cathay they could at least add some of its Tamurkhan mentioned stuff in Dogs of War to make it interesting like Shugengan wizard as another wizard hero along with Serpent priestess and Truthsayer and give him mount options kirin, stone dogs and serpent dragon. Celestial monk hero or unit and unit of Bannermen.

    Ind Tigermen can also be unit in DoW and does Snakemen of Khuresh to Chaos.

    These few assets will be enough to make Cathay and Ind as mod races if CA doesn't want to make them.
  • ChukchataChukchata Registered Users Posts: 901
    I think Kurgan works as a WoC subfaction with Sayl around. They are described as nomads with nearly superhuman strength and great devotion to the dark gods, and many great champions of Chaos come from their ranks. A slightly reworked WoC sounds great for them.

    Land is Kislev, Kislev is Land! We are Kislev!

    Proud Elspeth von Draken partisan
  • Aram_theheadAram_thehead Registered Users Posts: 1,005
    Yeah, if we get dogs of war as a preorder and kislev at launch, then there are really no campaign packs left for wh3. This is not a bad thing actually. I'd rather have a lot more characters for the empire, chaos and other main races, than cathay, nippon, ind and other side races.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 22,763
    1. Campaign pack will be Kislev/DoW depending on which one will be core
    2. Race pack could be Legions of Nagash

    Other options are Hobgoblins or Gnoblar Hordes.

    I‘m optimistic that we will see 2 new races like we did for warhammer 2. The preorder will probably be a race pack since Araby is dead.

    Potential crossover characters from the old world are Emil Valgeir & Neferata.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • TimpeyoTimpeyo Registered Users Posts: 1,774
    edited September 2019
    They may still bring out Araby and Cathay in the far future there prob just sick off hearing about them and want to concentrate on main factions




  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 22,763
    @Timpeyo you mean main factions like Vampire Coast and Norsca? Or main factions like DoW with an official armybook?

    Araby is officially dead. Grace said that they don’t have any plans for them in general.

    Kislev is still 99% confirmed.
    DoW are on the same level like Chaos Dwarfs and CA is running out of good factions in the dark lands so DoW are a given too in my opinion.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,625
    Pessimistic, but plausible. A lot of things that people confidently expect to come as races are things that *could* be done as lord packs. It'd be a cheaper and less substantial way of doing it that could leave a lot of people disappointed, but nevertheless, it could be done.
    ArneSo said:

    @Timpeyo you mean main factions like Vampire Coast and Norsca? Or main factions like DoW with an official armybook?

    Araby is officially dead. Grace said that they don’t have any plans for them in general.

    Kislev is still 99% confirmed.
    DoW are on the same level like Chaos Dwarfs and CA is running out of good factions in the dark lands so DoW are a given too in my opinion.

    Eh. I wouldn't call Araby entirely dead. We've also been told they haven't decided on the preorder yet. Some of CA's plans aren't set out very far in advance, so "no plans for" doesn't mean it will never happen, just that, well, there are no plans.

    Conversely, like most probabilities given in percentages with multiple nines or zeros, saying Kislev is 99% confirmed might be an exaggeration. The full official Kislev list (assuming the 4E Citadel Journal list isn't regarded as such) is fairly small even if you include Warmaster, and the Empire getting War Wagons turns something that might otherwise have been a Kislev feature into one more thing that the two have in common. I still think the chances that CA will expand Kislev into full list are better than even, but it's probably closer to 70% than 99%. There's plenty of room for reasonable doubt.
  • vintagepurplevintagepurple Registered Users Posts: 800
    edited September 2019
    Araby (and Cathay and friends) was always dead everywhere except in the wildest dreams of some folks online.

    People used Coast and Norsca as examples of "new" races but those rosters, other than some weapon variants, champions-turned-units, and Madame Cylostra they are taken entirely from existing units with art, rules, and at minimum converted example models from official GW sources for "modern" 6th-8th ed 28mm WHFB. These exist for Kislev, DoW, and plenty of others but not for Araby or Cathay. The closest modern GW ever got to making those were showcasing converted armies using Empire or Bret rules in 6th ed era WD.

    tldr people hang up on army books and forget that the new races in TWW are directly lifted from tabletop-legal sources that weren't army books- WD/Warhammer Chronicles supplements, Forgeworld, etc.

    The new content going forward that actually exists to be added to the game, (ie not fanon army books or early 90s units of nipponese ashigaru) is mostly variants that deepen existing factions, as well as DoW. Kislev is in a weird spot in that it makes more sense as a full race but only had a handful of allied units actually playable, so we'll see what happens with them.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,625

    People used Coast and Norsca as examples of "new" races but those rosters, other than some weapon variants, champions-turned-units, and Madame Cylostra they are taken entirely from existing units with art, rules, and at minimum converted example models from official GW sources for "modern" 6th-8th ed 28mm WHFB. These exist for Kislev, DoW, and plenty of others but not for Araby or Cathay. The closest modern GW ever got to making those were showcasing converted armies using Empire or Bret rules in 6th ed era WD.

    Depth Guard were taken out of a couple of mentions in the Dreadfleet book. The word "promethean" in the zombie pirates context comes from a reference to one example of what a Rotting Leviathan could be: there should only be the Rotting Leviathan and none of the smaller crabs, and even the Rotting Leviathan shouldn't have a crew. And some of those "weapon variants" are pretty significant: zombie pirates had no grenades, hand cannons, or mortars (save Queen Bess herself), and the Deck Droppers were simply their equivalent of Fell Bats: now the vampirates have both, and giving ranged weapons to Deck Droppers completely changes their role.

    There are no champions-turned-units in the vampirate roster. Most of the Zombie Pirate roster had no command group at all, and those that did didn't have alternate weapon options for the champion.

    So, ignoring characters, 10/25 vampirate units never existed on tabletop. 3/25 are called in from the regular Vampire Counts list to make up numbers (counting Syreens here, since they're essentially a rebranded Spirit Host - the tabletop Syreen was a hero, the zombie pirate equivalent of a Banshee). 2/25 are technically part of the list, but completely changed in how they behave. 2/25, naturally, came from Monstrous Arcanum. That leaves 8/25 that are actually faithfully represented from the Zombie Pirates list... and that's being generous (Deckhands only had a single hand weapon, and any zombie pirate with a firearm was as likely to misfire and hit themselves as they were to hit the target, something that is certainly not represented ingame).

    When they've made an army when less than half of the units presented (again, not including characters, and that's a whole new kettle of fish) were actually present on the tabletop... then yes, this DOES set a precedent that something with relatively little material could be expanded into a full list. The Warmaster list for Araby, for instance, contains eight units with NO weapon variants (there is apparently an expansion that does add weapon variants, but I haven't seen the rules myself, so I can't count how many that makes, but I've definitely seen miniatures with weapon variants) and not including djinn (which were purely a character "mount" in Warmaster), and there are references to more. If an army list with a grand total of eleven units, including weapon variants, the Queen Bess, and a swarm (Razortooth Rats, which were not implemented in TWW) could be expanded into something playable, I think it was entirely reasonable to think Araby could be too.

    Cathay, granted, doesn't have official models or rules, but has plenty of lore references. The chance was always in the realm of "probably not", but more around 20-30%, not the "multiple zeroes with a one on the end" that people tend to claim.

    Like I said - probabilities with multiple nines or zeros are probably exaggerated, not real estimates.
  • TimpeyoTimpeyo Registered Users Posts: 1,774
    Id quite like a Dreadfleet/Grand Alliance type LP for Vampire Coast and Mortal Factions if at all possible but prob unlikely as the only units are ones described on there ships without any actual TT models unless they can use sea fairing units from other factions




  • FungusHoundFungusHound Registered Users Posts: 5,647
    The fact that we got ANY races that weren't 8th edition armies is a miracle. This forum is obsessed with hyping things up to a ridiculous degree and then getting angry and upset when reality doesn't match the expectations.

    I honestly don't understand how so many people are so certain that a race with no characters, 0 TT representation, and that we aren't certain are even going to be on the map is going to get in.
  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 1,882
    edited September 2019

    The fact that we got ANY races that weren't 8th edition armies is a miracle. This forum is obsessed with hyping things up to a ridiculous degree and then getting angry and upset when reality doesn't match the expectations.

    I honestly don't understand how so many people are so certain that a race with no characters, 0 TT representation, and that we aren't certain are even going to be on the map is going to get in.

    I agree. People just want everything from wiki. The name is not enough for add something to the game.
    Every character or unit need own role. Every race need own mechanics, roster and playstyle.
    If we will get Southern Realms(Dogs of War roster), Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms and Kislev, we will have 20 races in game. That's enough. B)

    I expect mainly things from this list(withnout Araby and Halflings races):
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1396625137
    Dwarfs need Slayer Lord pack: https://imgur.com/x74HxxU
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