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Your Main Problems With TWWH

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  • ArsenicArsenic Posts: 4,705Registered Users
    1) Diplomacy is largely non-existent. Things like region trading should be "a thing", if for example sail across to help out the Empire, I don't want a High Elf province smack in the middle of The Empire's territory I have to forever babysit. Why can't I hand it over to The Empire in exchange for a massive relations buff and/or cash?

    2)The Chaos Invasion is so dreary it's usually enough to make me pack in any campaign I'm playing. Kill Archeon, destroy every other stack in the Old World and New,and do it within x number of turns or you have to go through the whole thing again.
    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • OptimisticOptimistic Member Posts: 266Registered Users
    Confederation hell. I want to use all the cool exciting big name heroes from whatever race I'm playing, not have to worry about confederating with various factions before the AI wipes them from the map.
  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Posts: 828Registered Users
    edited September 24
    1. Lack of depth in the battle map
    Terrain has some effect on creatures but it isn't very nuanced, is it? All big things have about the same penalty in dense forests, though you'd think a burrowing thing like a tomb scorpion would do slightly better than a wagon on wheels that has to turn on noclip cheats to get through trees every few feet.

    Infantry units with heavy armour do as well as infantry with no armour in wetlands and actual lakes. That's a bit odd, isn't it?

    And this has the effect of reducing unit choice for a particular battlefield to being mostly about which units can dish out more damage, without having to take into account any local factors of where you're fighting.


    2. Lack of climate effects on units
    Related to the above, I simply do not understand how flagellants can operate at peak efficiency in ice cold climates. Similarly, chaos wastes is bad for your health, but apparently not for your fighting ability. And in a similar fashion, units with heavy armour probably aren't going to have a great time in sweltering desert heat or in the wet and choking jungle heat of Lustria.

    And the effect is the same as before, one size fits all. If a unit is great at killing stuff in one environment, it is great everywhere.


    3. Supply lines force all factions to play more or less the same elite-centric strategy
    Because of supply lines, it quickly becomes very costly to match the killing power of certain elite units with enough raw numbers of lesser troops.

    There is a problem with removing supply lines in that the lords themselves are a bit underpriced and become absolutely ridiculous at high levels, but I think that problem can be handled seperately and frankly is less of an issue than the raw numbers factions being forced to build tall rather than wide.


    4. The skill trees of characters actually suck
    I love the skills. I love the improvements they offer. I love how off the rails the game can get once you get your lord and some heroes all the way. But at the same time, the skill trees are an inherent balancing impossibility and they absolutely push mix-maxing rather than serve to offer real character nuance. And the problem here is that once you've identified the best min-max approach, you really have no reason to ever deviate. It is always the same skills, probably even in the same order.

    Some might argue that skill tree offers choice, but that choice is a bit tainted in that one choice is clearly better than the other. Take Ikit Claw. He can buff Clanrats or jezzails and ratlings. Which of those are you realistically going to put skillpoints into? More speed and charge bonus for rat ogres and abominations, or more ammo and reload speed for artillery? It's not really a hard choice, is it? That doom flayer mount looks nice, but if you go for it then you lose out on either resistances or capstones, so it ranks somewhere between a bad choice and not really a serious option.

    What I think would be a lot more fun is a less mix-maxy approach where you get more contextual dilemmas depending on what the lord is doing. Builder lords get dilemmas that can give them buffs to building. Fighting lords get things that buffs some of the units they're fighting with. Mount options and capstones unlock automatically at certain levels. This would also take away a lot of the fairly annoying grief of having many characters in the late game.


    5. The campaign map AI is bonkers at times.
    Dwarves being invited into a conflict by filth like the undead or the Skaven or, dare I say it, elves? Confederation being extremely difficult to achieve, especially if you agree to an alliance. And what's with the strategic priorities? There seem to be a fair few reports of the AI sending their armies on picknicks far from home for no real reason, while their home provinces are getting burned.

    There's some aggression tweaks that I think are excessive and I think CA has been too willing to use cheat econ to compensate for extremely poor decision making by the AI, which I reckon essentially just makes the game grindier and more frustrating for a lot of people.


    6. The battle map AI is herpy-derpy at times
    Try building up a lord to the max (Sigvald with Sword of Khaine, maxed Kholek, that sort of thing) and then bring him into a battle on his own. Look at what the AI is doing with all its units. 2-3 will engage, the rest will set off on the great Altdorf Marathon, running back and forth across the map. I suspect this is an anti-blobbing mechanism to protect from excessive spell vulnerability, but words fail to describe how silly it looks.

    On the upside, it does mean the AI is less willing to put everything around the lord. On the second downside, it does mean certain very combat capable lords are suddenly quite capable of murdering the entire army.

    And if we get into sieges then the herpy-derp gets worse, because due to how the game is put together, so much of it revolves around taking extremely "well-defended" settlements from the AI without strictly speaking having the forces to match the defenders pound for pound. Fortunately, sieges often means walls, and walls are probably the worst place to be for any unit except in the single case of defending against mass dinos, mass shaggoths, or mass mammoths.


    7. Victory conditions, huh, yeah, what are they good for?
    Absolutely nothing
    Victory conditions, huh, yeah
    What are they good for
    Absolutely nothing
    Say it again, why'all
    Victory conditions, huh, good god
    What are they good for
    Absolutely nothing, listen to me

    I hear the new Markus Wulfhart campaign is pretty good, but I'm holding off on Empire until F&G are out. The other campaigns, well... It's just not very interesting, is it? Get these 14 provinces, secure control over 7 of these 25 special places, destroy these 12 factions, and beat the Chaos Invasion that doesn't want to end because one stinking lord is hiding waaaaay deep in the Chaos Wastes. It's just not all that fun, is it?

    I reckon some goals that feel more related to the starting lord in question would be a lot nicer, instead of what frankly feels a bit like "paint the map" goals. Thorgrim's goals, unite the clans, kick back the greenies and the rats. Skarsnik, Belegor, Queek, get control of the province with K8P, kill the other contenders, done. Things like that.


    8. General incoherency between what units are and how they behave
    Rat carts have more armour than Tomb Kings living statues. A legendary warrior bred for combat that has lived for eons has less MD than some upstart lady vampire that doesn't get her hands dirty if she can help it. And steamtanks running through a crowd of peasants doesn't actually spread tomate sauce everywhere.

    And while we're at it, why is it that AP is so common in the new stuff and much more rare in the old stuff? Why is everything armour piercing? Just to clarify, no, a greatsword is not going to cut through full plate mail and it almost certainly won't do more than tickle the skin of something the size of a dread saurian. If you're swinging at Khemric living stone then you're more likely to just chip your blade. Axes have slightly better chances but historical war axes are frail edged weapons, not hammers with a slight edge on the business side, so chopping stone with them is not a good idea.


    9. The physics are a bit weird.
    Some people want footlords to get tackled by a cargo hauler worth of kinetic energy and not be phased by it at all. I feel the opposite. That mighty angry T-rex did just come rushing in at full tilt so why is a puny lass on a horse just body checking it like it is nothing? That is off. Similarly, if your warsphinx gets hemmed in by cav then it pretty much cannot push itself out, even though it is a honking big solid stone statue and those little quadrupeds are, after all, just flimsy little horsies with some fleshbags of mostly water on top.
  • Grimgor_the_CAkeGrimgor_the_CAke Posts: 1,673Registered Users
    1, Spending a lot of efforts on lord and hero development, themetic army building... then you meet Tyrion 8 unit stack with his Sword of K. Played the same battles two times. Won it with many honorable deaths. Well, dislike the absurb power of the sword in Tyrion. Campaign stopped. Yes-yes;

    2, Filling up a 20 unit stack, rolling over the enemy if I could, improving the army as budget allows... running away while I cannot win... then finding myself just playing too many easy battles. Bored;

    3, Rushing all units towards the enemies and then win. Repeat that 100 times;

    4, Doing same hero action again and again till it is level 20. Feeling satisfied the first 20 campaigns. Feeling stupid the next 20 campaigns. Feeling disgusting after...;

    5, Playing immersively and then stopped by a bug;

    6, When you are playing and enjoying old content but everyone else in forum talking about how they feel on the new stuff;

    7, Want to unlock all Achievement but you know you can`t. The same with the movies. My life is ruined and incomplete. I hate CA;

    8, The good feature you like is changed by CA. It is the only time I am tempted to play Chaos - so I can destroy the silly world;

    9, Not enough storage space in hard drive. Okay, I delete Rome2. Still not enough? Okay, I delete Football Manager. Still... hmmm, I delete 3K!!! Still?? @#%&? I delete myself...
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,134Registered Users
    Some people want footlords to get tackled by a cargo hauler worth of kinetic energy and not be phased by it at all. I feel the opposite. That mighty angry T-rex did just come rushing in at full tilt so why is a puny lass on a horse just body checking it like it is nothing? That is off. Similarly, if your warsphinx gets hemmed in by cav then it pretty much cannot push itself out, even though it is a honking big solid stone statue and those little quadrupeds are, after all, just flimsy little horsies with some fleshbags of mostly water on top.


    A Dread Saurian cannot bowl over a mangy, half-rotten dog or an anorexic damsel on a pony. Why is infantry bowling OK, but the fact that much lighter units are 100% immune to it already not?
  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Posts: 828Registered Users

    Some people want footlords to get tackled by a cargo hauler worth of kinetic energy and not be phased by it at all. I feel the opposite. That mighty angry T-rex did just come rushing in at full tilt so why is a puny lass on a horse just body checking it like it is nothing? That is off. Similarly, if your warsphinx gets hemmed in by cav then it pretty much cannot push itself out, even though it is a honking big solid stone statue and those little quadrupeds are, after all, just flimsy little horsies with some fleshbags of mostly water on top.


    A Dread Saurian cannot bowl over a mangy, half-rotten dog or an anorexic damsel on a pony. Why is infantry bowling OK, but the fact that much lighter units are 100% immune to it already not?
    I'm not saying it is okay. I'm just arguing that the issue is with the pony rider and the dog rather than the footlords.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,134Registered Users
    So they can either add knockdown animations to quadrupeds, which would basically make SEMs even more dominant since that would also reduce the number of viable counters considerably, or they have foot lords counter monsters. Y'know, like this:



    Surely someone heard the story of Sigurd and how he beat the dragon Fafnir while on foot, right? Right now this particular match would always end with Sigurd getting beaten because Fafnir would keep him with the face in the dirt constantly until death.
  • SubjectEighteenSubjectEighteen Posts: 409Registered Users

    So they can either add knockdown animations to quadrupeds, which would basically make SEMs even more dominant since that would also reduce the number of viable counters considerably, or they have foot lords counter monsters. Y'know, like this:



    Surely someone heard the story of Sigurd and how he beat the dragon Fafnir while on foot, right? Right now this particular match would always end with Sigurd getting beaten because Fafnir would keep him with the face in the dirt constantly until death.

    This idea is an interesting one. Foot lords countering large single entity monsters. There is definitely some merit here and would provide a much needed niche lords without mounts.
  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Posts: 828Registered Users

    So they can either add knockdown animations to quadrupeds, which would basically make SEMs even more dominant since that would also reduce the number of viable counters considerably, or they have foot lords counter monsters. Y'know, like this:

    [snip for space]

    Surely someone heard the story of Sigurd and how he beat the dragon Fafnir while on foot, right? Right now this particular match would always end with Sigurd getting beaten because Fafnir would keep him with the face in the dirt constantly until death.

    The issue with dominant single entities that just bowl over everything, preventing it from fighting back, is not actually solved well by just making it impossible to knock anything over. Rather, they should make it possible for the small thing being hit to dodge the impact, with the chance being influenced by the small thing's MD.

    And a small correction, but right now Sigurd gets eaten because his health and damage is far less than that of the dragon and the dragon's MA with CB is easily high enough to land hits. Take away the knockdowns and he'd simply die a lot faster.

    To see this in action, try a dread saurian vs infantry and vs cavalry. The infantry will stick around for a while and tie up the lizard, because rather than dying instantly they just fly about quite a lot. The cavalry, meanwhile, is just lunch on a platter.
  • TheOooooooooooldOneTheOooooooooooldOne Member Posts: 76Registered Users
    The new Region Line of Sight changes..... by far the worst change in the games history in my opinion. Taking a break till its fixed or a mod comes out to fix it. *plus now i can chip away at my backlog*

    Turn time is also annoying, but i just do a basic workout, so thanks C.A. for my sudden spike in physical activity!
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