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Hordes factions power and income problems.

Deep_echo_soundDeep_echo_sound Posts: 447Registered Users
That was pointed many times before.
Hordes are not supposed to be weaklings. Hordes are not mendicants.
C.A. and many "survival horror" play style fans do not understand, what hordes are about.
Why ask for money every few turns when they just should give automatic tribute via vassalage. This is just additional micromanagement tax.

And these people do not understand what hordes are.
Obviously most of them never took a good history lessons on historical hordes.

They are always huge power, at least major ones. They, translated into game, can support no less troops than usual nations/factions. Endless tides of savage warriors - is what hordes about. Not some roaming homeless beggars.

They autonomously can support big armies with themselves. They produce weapons, closes, homes, trade - all with themselves. Their settlements are just mobile. But are the same money making, economy-making infrastructure.

Second, about vassalage. Hordes had vassals for constant money stream, bread stream, and military aid.
They just uses their vassals for "sucking" their economy and vassal military for own power.

Scythians, sarmatians, huns, rechenegs, khazars, polovtsy, so-called mongolian hordes, different tatar tribes, and other, - all were the same in the northern black see steps, before, at and after (Kievan) Rus times. Many hordes lived there and most asian hordes were migrating though this area to Europe.

Hordes always have big, strong military power, or they do not exist. And many times they take big part of resources from their vassals. Mostly food and money. Plus, loyal vassals support them in wars.
That is just historical rule.

Why "warhammer" hordes suffer so much? Why are they so, so weak?
Fantasy hordes should not be inferior and less frightening, in A.I. or players hands, than the real ones.
They need income building chain in each stack. And take bigger portion of vassals income every turn, without begging them for money via diplomacy.
Vassal should have his income reduced, but build and recruit his own forces. And hordes should have same military might when owning same territory, as settlements factions. 40 provinces - 12 strong stacks. Not 2. All must be like high elves, dark elves, lizardmen, etc. You own huge empire - you are unstoppable.


  • Deep_echo_soundDeep_echo_sound Posts: 447Registered Users
    For Nakai's "spirit of the jungle" horde faction specifically.

    His vassal faction in just not interactive.
    "Spirit of the jungle" can take 25% of vassals income.
    And vassals must still play their game. Build on stacks on their own, just be very weak on economy.
    Let's say, income for their own disposal effectively halved, or even reduced to 25%, their faction's of basic income. But owning some settlements they still can recruit armies and go their own way. And not acting just as "ruin placeholder".

    Then, it will be good if you will have the opportunity to interact with them. Not only 1 time for the whole game. But, actually, if you so wish, ask them to build that building in that city, and other building in other city.
    Optional "babysitting" them. Remember, that they must have greatly reduced income, as well as slow, as player have, growth, with no usual A.I. bonuses. So they will build up slowly. And, if you do not want to manage them, they will build up automatically.

    So, we need.

    1. Build orders.
    So, what I suggest - optional build orders for hordes vassals. Like a master's demand. (They still can go fully automatic!)
    You click on vassal settlement, you click on building and it highlighted as "desired" for vassal. 1 at a time for every settlement.
    Vassal will build what you asked, when they will have gold and growth for that.

    2. Armies.
    And, like a real vassal, join you in war bringing their own forces to fight along you on the battlefield.
    They must interact with wold on your side. Built and maintain armies on their own. Just owning far less stacks overall.

    3. Income.
    Gold income for them must divide in following manner.
    50% gold for them, 25% gold for you, and 25% gold for old one's cult, sacred sacrifices, etc.
    (Effectively just -25% gold income that then divided in 2/1 between vassal and you.)
    Their gold and growth must be just like for settlement player faction, on according difficulty, with no A.I. bonuses.

    4. Interface.
    And we need comfy interface for checking vassal's faction provinces, just like we need it for skaven under empire. To go through them easily.

    5. Survivability.
    Very important for the A.I. especially!
    If his hordes destroyed, but vassal live (which is almost always that way) - he should be reborn after 5 turns like all normal lords.
    That means - creating connection with his vassal both ways.
    If his faction dies - vassal resurrects him. They are defenders of the great plan after all.
    If they die (never saw this, but, to be sure) than, when he captures next settlement, they will appear once again as his vassals.

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