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Dogs of War Army List Part 1

SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
Warning: Games Workshop tried to flesh out every RoR with tons of lore, so between that and trying to explain everything this post is Huge, Explore this thread at your own peril! I highly suggest settling in with a cup of tea, taking breaks or just reading what peaks your interest.

Introduction


This is part 1 of a 4-part series covering The Dogs of War and the Southern Realms as factions: who they are, what their units are and how could this function within Warhammer 2. Part 1 will cover the Dogs of War Rogue armies themselves, as well as the Border Princes, While Part 2 will Cover Tilea and Estalia, part 3 will cover the Outlaw/Pirate units that will be shared across all the others and part 4 will be everything that’s left over.

It’s no surprise that CA hasn't decided to tackle the Dogs of War/Southern Realms yet, because it’s basically 3 factions in one! with an incredibly bloated roster of units and characters that were mentioned in various sources across 30 years of GW material. Many of the units are from all the other factions in the Warhammer world (Including 6 that aren't even in the game yet) and alot of these units like "Tichi-Huichi's Raiders" might actually be better implemented to their own races rather than the Dogs of War, so CA are likely keeping it in the wings while they decide how best to use this mountain of resources.

With this in mind, I’ve attempted to divide the content up into different sections in such a way that would allow us to get the most out of the material, with subsequent updates, DLC etc.

Who are The Dogs of War?

Dog of War is a polite term for a mercenary in the Warhammer World. There is a common misconception that "the Dogs of War" are exclusively connected to Tilea, but this is untrue, Tilea and Estalia are just some of their best customers. Dogs of War are rogues and ruffians from every race and creed imaginable: from Cathay to the Amazons, from Vampires to the Empire, the Greenskins; you name it and there is probably a mercenary regiment from that race within the Dogs of War roster.

These Mercenaries follow the coin and live nomadic lives, roaming from master to master, playing both sides of a conflict trying to get as rich as they can without getting killed.

How They Should be Implemented


The Rogue Armies in Warhammer 2 that are a mixture of different faction’s rosters, already function as a stand-in for the Dogs of War. These Rogue Armies should be updated with a proper Dogs of War roster; plus some units from the factions they are themed around (for example: Vashnaar's Conquest is themed around the Dark Elves and Chaos, therefore: they should get limited access to chaos and Dark Elf units, on top of getting a full Dogs of War Roster).

- A few of these Rogue Armies could get Legendary Lords and become playable as a Horde Faction.

- These playable Dogs of War armies would be able to sign contracts with other factions and work under them. you would get missions from your employer, steady income and so on.

- The missions would have a short timer on them, forcing you to prioritise them while on the job.

- Other factions would compete to give you a higher price in exchange for you breaking your current contract and siding with them instead.

- Dogs of War Armies would have a Reputation metre that shows how trustworthy they are. This would be integral to you getting new contracts, especially with the forces of Order factions. if you fail to complete a mission on time, betray your employer or allow them to be destroyed then you will lose reputation (They could also make it so that you get different reputation metres for the Forces of Order and the Ruinous powers, so if you work for one group then the other hates you more)

- You would also have a fame metre, which you increase by winning battles (the more decisive the better), defending your benefactor and completing side objectives in the missions you are given. The more fame you amass, the more in demand you become and the higher pay you receive.

- You must compete with other Dogs of War armies for contracts (a leaderboard could exist as It does with the Vampire Coast). This would give you something to do between contracts, as you hunt down competitors to shut them down and get ahead of them.

The Border Princes


In the Borderlands Between the Lands of Men and the Badlands lies the Border Princes: a collection of city-states: populated by exiles, pirates, adventurers and outlaws from the Empire, Bretonnia and even Kislev. They are the ones we know the least about and don't seem to have a culture of their own; they're just a collage of the other factions from the surrounding area and it is assumed they rely heavily on mercenaries. These city-states are constantly at war with one another and for a single Prince to Last more than a few years is almost unheard of, because the statesmen in their court are just as eager to stab them in the back as the neighbouring Kingdoms are.

How They Should be Implemented


Like the Dogs of War Rogue armies, both Border Princes: Leitpold and Gashnag, would have a full mercenary roster, with Lietpold getting some units from the Empire, Kislev and Bretonnia (disgraced Bretonnian Knights, Ex-Imperial soldiers etc), while Gashnag would have access to Vampire Counts units.


Border Princes Legendary Lords






Dogs of War Legendary Lords








Generic Lords and Heroes







Dogs of War Units
































(optional) Info on these characters and how they could work in WH2

Gashnag the Black Prince
The Border Principalities are wild land’s, ruled over by dozens of robber barons and petty nobles. These small provinces war with each other practically daily and are beset by Greenskin Raids, bandits, chaos beasts and anything that pours out of the Badlands. Yet there is one town, protected by a soaring dark citadel, which has been unscathed for centuries, outliving every other dynasty that surrounds it. This is the small kingdom of Gashnag: The Black prince of the Strigoi.

While many Strigoi before him have attempted to plant their flags proudly in the sand and carve out a mighty empire through open warfare, Gashnag has employed a more Lahmian approach over the years. He has a network of spies and agents who act as proxy for most of his dealings and he has paid off many bards throughout the Old World to tell tall tales that he was once a handsome prince, transformed by a witches curse and that only true loves kiss can break the spell.

Despite his beastly appearance and Vampyric blood, Gashnag has wit, guile and even goodness within him. He personally rides out in the dead of night with his men to protect his people from Ogre incursions or whatever else wanders into his lands hoping to cause mayhem. Though his subjects never see them, entire armies of Crypt Ghouls are known to stalk neighbouring kingdoms, terrorising their forces, destroying their crops to deter anyone thinking of trying to dethrone him.


Lietpold the Black
This Border Prince has been branded with many monikers in his time: Leitpold the Black, the Bloody, the Butcher, the Turncoat, the Thrice cursed; his exploits of bloody conquest and dirty treachery have made him a legendary villain all across the old world, often discussed with venomous words over a few Bugman’s in taverns across the Old World.

His enemies are as numerous as his flaws and yet even those who hold him in the lowest regard could never fault his martial prowess, nor his tactical genius. Still, his vile behaviour might see him succeed in the short term, yet the long-term results find him with few allies and fewer friends of any repute; his forces often comprise of the lowest scum imaginable (even among mercenaries of the region) yet even among this detritus, his vile nature puts all others to shame.

Lietpold should start in Akendorf next to blackfire Pass and control the top half of the Border Prince territory and he should buff Pirate and outlaw units (which I will cover in part 3) and DoW from more evil factions.


Asarnil Dragonlord
Asarnil the Dragonlord was previously the son of an elven hero and Prince of Caledor. He lost his title and all his inheritance when he disobeyed the Phoenix Kings orders; Following his exile, He has become famous the world over as a powerful and mighty mercenary, who rides atop his terrifying dragon “Deathfang”.

Asarnil distinguished himself in the “Great War Against Chaos” which took place around 200 years before the beginning of Warhammer 1. He led his fellow Dragon Princes in the “Battle of Finuval Plain” and after the dust had settled, Asarnil was to link up with the rest of the High Elf forces and March to Lothern to lift the siege and save the Phoenix King. He received word Before he set out that The Dark Elves were regrouping and planning an attack on his home of Caledor; which lay mostly undefended, with the bulk of the army marching to Lothern. Asarnil could not stand idle and lead his fellow Dragon riders back home, saving the day and driving the Druchii back into the sea. In his triumph, he headed back to the rendezvous with the Phoenix King, confident that great rewards and honour awaited he and his men; but instead he was met with the Phoenix Kings wrath. Asarnil rejected the Kings judgement, enraged that he would be accused of betrayal for saving his kingdom and so the Phoenix king banished him from all of Ulthuan until he accepted the kings punishment.

He flew from the Island he called home and headed for towards the old ruins of an Elven city in the south of the old world. Upon his approach he realised that the humans now inhabited the lands and he stopped at the city state of Remas in the lands of Tilea. The Prince of Remas quickly requested to higher Asarnil to aid him in a war against another city state of Miragliano (also Tilea in game).
Asarnil agreed and proceeded to destroy Miragliano’s entire navy single handedly atop his mighty dragon “Deathfang” and since that day: His presence on the battlefield has always spelled victory for whoever has the coin to hire him. He still has a dream of returning to his home one day, triumphant and laden with the riches he has won, but for now, his lance and sword remain up for hire.


Gilead Lothian
Gilaid, along with his companion, the aging Weapon Master Fithvael, might just be the last remaining Elves of Tor Anrok: a once proud colony of the High Elves situated in the Borderlands. After the War of the Beard he, his friend and his twin brother wander the Old World in search of the last vestige of his kinsmen. His Twin is murdered trying to save him from bandits and the two were so inseparable that this kills something inside Gilead and (like everyone in the Warhammer setting) his life is consumed by a quest for vengeance.

After the Death of his brother Gilaed and Fithvael wander almost aimlessly, acting as mercenaries, slaughtering any evil they can find and looking for any survivours from their home (who may not even exist). Bies mentioned these two could be another Gotrek and Felix type duo for the Wood Elves and High Elves which I agree with but they could equally be made into a playable DoW faction of their own.


Mengil Manhide
Mengil is a sadistic cannibal who was banished from his home of Clar Karond by his father, until he hunted down and killed an escaped young Norscan slave. Mengil did not only kill his quarry, in his revelry: he smeared the blood of the Norscan across his face, drank deep from the man’s heart, ate his flesh and fashioned his skin into a cloak. His father was so impressed that he gave him the title 'Manhide'.

He joined the Corsairs of Clar Karond and though he was a tenacious leader who could always achieve victory: he was despised by his superiors for risking too many men and bringing back few slaves in return; such was his blood lust that he would kill even those who surrendered to him; hacking at their bodies long after the life was drained from their eyes. Within half a century Mengil was leading the majority of the raids launched from the Black Ark known as "the Citadel of Spite" as he ravaged the coasts of Ulthuan, Araby, Norsca, Bretonnia and Estalia. He was still terrible at retrieving slaves, but his superiors came to be satisfied with the sheer terror he sowed in the hearts of their enemies.

For a time, His Black Ark controlled the entrance to the Tilean Sea: preying on the merchants, smugglers and all who lived on the coastline, until one day, while Mengil and most of the men were away on a raid, the Citadel of Spite was attacked by High Elf warships and forced to retreat; leaving the raiding party stranded and the Ark did not return. Since that day Mengil and his raiders (known as Manflayers) have made a name for themselves as feared sellswords and assassins in the old world. Mengil has also returned to Naggaroth several times, where he is readily employed by the Dreadlords as an assassin to take out potential rivals.


Ulther Stonehammer
Ulther Stonehammer is the rightful heir to the once great Dwarven hold Karak Ungor, which was overrun many generations ago during the Goblin Wars (Karak Ungor is controlled by the Red Eye clan just above Karak Kadrin in game). His clan and Kin have settled within the refuge of Karaz-a-Karak ever since, regularly and failing to retake their rightful home.

On his deathbed, Ulther’s father charged him with the task of being the one to finally achieve their centuries long goal of retaking their hold and their honour along with it. Upon his father’s death, Ulther refused to be crowned the next king until he’s able to do so in the throne room of Karak Ungor, like his ancestors before him. He has rallied any and all willing and able forces to his side and now conducts an unorthodox guerrilla war against his enemies north of Karak Kadrin; even recruiting Imperials and Kislevites from nearby provinces who want the Green Tide wiped from the face of the earth as much as the Dawi do.

Ulther could be the only settlement-horde hybrid of the bunch. He would start as a horde and be unable to capture proper settlements until he retakes Karak Ungor. This is obviously due to him not wanting to be crowned king until he retakes his ancestral home.

Ulther would get the full Dogs of War roster with Dwarf, Kislev and Empire units thrown in.


More Information and sources will be in the Posts directly below this.

Source list.
Asarnil Dragonlord
-DoW 5th edition page 6, 42, 43

Gashnag the Black Prince
-Warhammer RPG 2nd ed Night’s Dark Masters

Gilead Lothian
-Gilead’s Blood (Novel)
-Gilead’s Curse (Novel)

Lietpold the Black
-Forge World Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos pages 158, 159


Mengil Manhide
-White Dwarf #298

Ulther Stonehammer
-Warhammer RPG 1st ed Stone and Steel

Albion Giants
-White Dwarf #233, #252

Al Muktar’s Desert Dogs
-DoW 5th ed Army Book p40-41

Anakonda’s Amazons
-White Dwarf #308

The Bearmen of Urslo
-White Dwarf #225, #252

Chaos Dwarf Renegades
-Citadel BC6, 0310

Dwarf Goldseekers
-White Dwarf #252

The Fireheart Lizards
-White Dwarf #407

Freelance Knights
-White Dwarf #331

Goblin Hewer
-Storm of Chaos p66

Harboth’s Black Mountain Boyz/Orc Archers
-Citadel RR5, RRD3

High Elf Rangers
-various brief mentions throughout Town Cryer, White Dwarf etc

Hobgoblin Despoilers
-Citadel RR15, RRD9

Kanac’s Lizardmen Raiders
-Citadel RR11

Knights of the Cleansing Flame
-Citadel RR17, RRD10

the Lost Kindred
-citadel Journal #37
-Wood Elf 6th ed Army Book p16, p59
-White Dwarf #170

Ludwig’s wondrous Grenadiers
-Dwarf 6th ed Army Book

Lumpin Croop’s Fighting Co*k’s
-White Dwarf #252

Mad Mullah Aklan’d’s Death Commandos
-Citadel RR6

Mengil’s Manflayers
-White Dwarf #298

Marienburg Land Ship
-Forge World Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos pages 153 - 156

Mordax, the Great Imperial Dragon
-White Dwarf #91
-Citadel DRAG5

Notlob’s Orcish Bolt Throwing Engines
-Citadel RR14

Oglah Khan’s Wolfboyz
-White Dwarf #231, #252
Rhinox Riders
-White Dwarf #309
-Forgeworld 6th/7th edition

Richter Kruger’s Cursed Company
-RoR Supplement

Ruglud’s Armoured Orcs
-RoR Supplement

Scarloc’s Archers
-White Dwarf #92
-The End Times Vol III: Khaine

Tichi-Huichi’s Raiders
-RoR Supplement
-Conquest of the new world p15
-White Dwarf #252, #305

Ulther’s Dragon Company
-Warhammer RPG 1st ed, Stone and Steel
-Citadel RRD6

Undead Samurai
-White Dwarf #205
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Comments

  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited October 20
    Mercenary General / Captain
    Functionally Identical to their Empire Counterparts. Mercenary Generals/Captains are Melee focused Lords/Heroes who function as tanks. These characters can take a Pegasus Mount as well as a barbed horse.

    Spellsword
    Mage lord and hero with a selection from any lore. We should get male and female variants since we're going to be implementing Lucrezzia anyway.

    The Paymaster
    The Paymaster is integral to every Mercenary army because they're the one in charge of making sure everyone received their wages. As a result, they are a mandatory Inclusion for any army with Mercenary units.

    They are ranged heroes with a chariot mount and take on a supportive role: giving leadership and defensive buffs to nearby units. If a Paymaster is killed in battle, then the mercenary and Outlaw/Pirate units in the army will Suffer debuffs to their leadership and attack as they lose the will to fight.


    Albion Giants
    Albion is a land of mystery, some say that it’s an island of mist populated by repulsive creatures of chaos, others say that the people of the island are more advanced even than the mighty Empire and yet more rumours say that the island itself is made of solid gold! Whatever the justification, many ambitious adventurers have sought to take to the high seas and venture out to this secretive little island off the coast of Norsca and finally uncover its wonderous secrets.

    In truth, the Indigenous people of Albion have regressed to a more primitive society in order to survive the ever-looming presence of chaos. Their people worship the Giants of thee land as if they are avatars of the gods themselves and the one, they look up to the most would be Bologs and his brother Cachtorr. When an expedition from Remas attempted to beach on the island their forces were decimated on the shoreline by the Albion’s and their Giants, still the Tileans in their great numbers posed a great threat to the sanctity of the island and so a deal was struck once they made it ashore: the Tileans would return home and in return they would be allowed to take two of their Giants home with them. The tribesmen of Albion were none too pleased with this exchange, but they struck the deal all the same.

    The Leader of this expedition “Curious Geasar”...(yes I’m serious) was assassinated upon the expeditions return and in the ensuing chaos the giants and their Albion Truthsayer attendant were set free and now roam the Southern Realms confused in these new lands and seeking a way home. It is a brave Mercenary General indeed who seeks out these two giants hire in their army, they’re more likely to eat you and your gold than accept to join your cause but still it is something many attempt from time to time considering the sheer power of Bologs and Cachtorr.


    Al Muktar’s Desert Dogs
    Werner Glook was a young noble from the Southern Realms who had an unhappy childhood and never really found his place in the world and as a result he always had a fascination of other cultures and a thirst for adventure. In his adulthood he would find himself on a Tilean merchant ship, bound for the Corsair capital of Araby, having studied the language and wanting to see it for himself.

    Unbeknownst to Werner, the people of the region had a prophesy that foretold a man like him from a foreign land who could speak their language, who was to one day become “Al Muktar” or The Chosen one. And so, it was that the people held him in reverence and his fame grew without him even realising why. This would one day save his life when a group of bandits attacked him out in the desert, and they cowered in fear at the sight of Al Muktar. Werner, finally catching wind of his importance, Werner decided to embrace his new mantle and lead the Bandits to a new era of success, becoming known as “The Desert Dogs”. Eventually they became such a nuisance that the Sultan stopped fighting against them and instead hired them into his service where they would serve him well.

    Al Muktar’s Desert Dogs are light Scimitar cavalry with shields and no armour.

    Anakonda’s Amazons
    The Amazonians of Lustria are a people shrouded in mystery. What little is known to the civilized world can only been gleaned from scraps of lost journals or the ramblings of those unlucky enough to be sent back as an example of what happens when you cross the warrior woman of Lustria. Anakonda and her warband are similarly enigmatic, the leader herself got her name from slaying a great Lustrian snake, whose skin she now wears into battle.

    Anakonda’s Amazons are fierce fighters, clothed in the hides of Skinks, Lustrian Snakes and many other beasts of the jungle. They carry “the Blades of Ancients” which are relics of the old ones they found in the depth of a ruined Ziggurat; despite their immense age they still hold the power of the gods within them and the gems on the blades set them ablaze when they taste blood.


    The Bearmen of Urslo
    Among the human tribes of Norsca, deformities and mutations are regular occurrences because of their Chaos worship, often they are direct blessings from their demonic gods and become some of the Norscans biggest strength. For the Tribe of the Bear, its common for their warriors to sprout claws, snarling teeth, mane-like fur and bear shaped muzzles and the strongest among them can transform into fully fledged Were-Bears (like Wolfkin).

    Beorg and His Bearmen are among the strongest Norscans the Tribe of the Bear has ever produced and after gaining their blessings from the Chaos gods they ventured south, fighting their way through the lands of the softer races of men until they reached the Southern Realms where the locals who don’t get murdered by them can put their skills to good use.

    The Bearmen live as normal(ish) men but transform into Bearmen when they go into battle. It’d be amazing if they go into battle as mutated Norscan infantry but after getting a certain number of kills (like murderous mastery) they transform into Bearmen, getting stronger the longer they’ve been in battle.


    Chaos Dwarf Renegades
    N/A

    The Fireheart Lizards
    Salamander Hunting Pack, whose handlers are mercenaries. I have no further info on them at this time.

    Dwarf Goldseekers
    “The Dwarf race is cursed by an irresistible lust for gold and they certainly don’t dislike fighting (especially against Greenskins). It’s easy to understand how some young Dwarfs decide that they’d rather earn their gold fighting than spend their life scraping the underground in search of rich ore.”

    Goblin Hewer
    One of the many mental inventions of Malakai Makaisson: The Goblin Hewer is an artillery piece that throws an endless stream of axes at the enemy lines. a Unique Anti-Infantry Artillery piece for the Dwarfs with about 4 Hewers per unit.

    The Goblin Hewer would be best utilised firing along the flanks of a unit rather than shooting it from the front. Due to the contraption being made mostly of wood and being crewed by Slayers, it would be very fast, more like a weapons team than a traditional artillery piece. Its high speed means it could be fielded away from the main army relatively safely, able to keep itself out of danger (it would synergize well with stalk units).


    Harboth’s Black Mountain Boyz/Orc Archers
    Black Fire Pass is the only way over the Black Mountains and for years on end it has been terrorized and controlled by a Greenskin Encampment run by Harboth, an Orc of great size and strength.

    Through their innumerable raids and ambushes, the Black Mountain Boyz have amassed a great deal of weapons, armour and goods that are above the Craftsmanship of most Greenskins; Harboth himself dual wields Dwarven cleavers, while his Boyz use shields and a variation of sturdy bows, clubs, maces and whatever else they get in their raids.

    After Teaming up with Notlob and his Bolt Throwers, it is said that the Black Mountain Boyz became a regiment of archers, taking inspiration from Notlob’s impressive projectiles. I prefer the older iteration since it would offer a new unique variation of Orc infantry rather than Orc Arrer Boyz which aren’t great.


    High Elf Rangers
    Much like the Mistwalkers of Yvresse, the High Elf Rangers live on the fringes of Asur society, rarely celebrated, yet ever necessary, they wander the Lands of their kin and beyond across the high seas, seeking adventure, challenge and ruination upon the enemies of their people.

    These Rangers consist mainly of outcasts; young princes, merchants or nobles who have either been disgraced, grown weary of their peoples passive foreign policy, with a burning desire to take the fight to their enemies before it’s too late or simply those who have no patience for the etiquette and intrigue of everyday life on Ulthuan, never mind what goes on in the Phoenix court.

    While they might lack the martial discipline of the Asur Spearmen or the dazzling precision of the Swordmaster’s of Hoeth, there is still a beauty in how the High Elf Rangers conduct themselves in battle, almost like a dance as they spin, parry, cut and slash their way through the battlefield, more often than not, finding themselves locking swords with their dark cousins, the Black Ark Corsairs on the deck of an Eagleship far beyond Ulthuans shores.

    Despite their dedication, skill and unwavering loyalty to their people, the Rangers are still shunned for their perceived roguish nature, their non-conformist attitude and unrefined demeanour. Even within the Asur Navy they are kept at a distance among the rest of the crew, so many of them find themselves leaving Ulthuan behind entirely, Sailing to High Elf colonies that are farthest from their homeland to try and make a difference there or wanders through the land of Other races selling their services for a chance to fight the ruinous powers.


    Kanac’s Lizardmen Raiders
    So, apparently the Dwarfs of Karaz-a-Karak dug too deep and somehow fought savage Lizardmen underground who ate the Dwarf King and beat them so badly that they had to collapse the lower tunnels of the Dwarven capital for all time?

    The lore for this unit is undoubtedly out of date but they do have lore and a Model so this could easily be edited by CA to give us a unit of Sauras or Temple Guard.


    Knights of the Cleansing Flame
    The Knights of the Cleansing Flame are a sacred brotherhood of knights that find their roots in the first of the Crusades against the Arabyan people. The original order of Templars was corrupted when some of their members succumbed to the evil of Chaos, Chronus and only 3 others survived the outbreak from within their ranks; as they burned down their old sanctuary to purify the taint of Chaos, they realised that this Cleansing Flame should be their mark, the foundation of their future Brotherhood.

    Tilea and Estalia allegedly have an Inquisition of some kind that was formed around the time of the Arabyan Crusades, although no real official sources ever go into what it is, what it does and so on; only ever stating that it does exist. If GW and CA were ever to try and bring this idea to life, I think “the Knights of the Cleansing Flame” would be the perfect basis to build upon for this inquisition, since they fit so well.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    the Lost Kindred
    Deep within the Confines of Athel Loren is where the Wood Elves have resided since the war of the beards, seeking refuge from the righteous indignation of the Dawi. Over the centuries, the Wood Elves have split up into many tribes, or “Kindred”, each of these Kindred have their own unique culture and Customs, with most being attached to a certain part of the magical forest. For the Kindred of the Wythel Glades, they found an affinity with the mighty Wythel trees, whose majesty was second only to the Oak of Ages itself.

    Upon these Trees, this Kindred depended for everything: seeking feeding upon the berries and seeds, fashioning weapons and armour from their bark and shelter beneath their branches.

    As the taint of Chaos began to seep into the forest (with the Killing of Morghul) the Wythel Trees were hit the hardest and despite the Wood Elves best efforts, they could not be saved, for the Kindred of the Wythel Glades this would mean the end of their people and way of life; as their Spellweavers tried desperately to salvage the trees, they sent out bands of Hawk Riders and Great Eagles to scour the known world in the hopes of finding a home elsewhere. As the last of the Wythel Trees died before their eyes, a band of Hawk Riders returned triumphant with twigs and berries in their hands.

    Their salvation had come, but the journey to get there would be arduous indeed; the Kindred leapt over the Grey Mountains and wandered through the Old World, Through the Vaults and Across the Borderlands in a 5-month exodus to retrace the steps of their scouts, separating themselves from Athel Loren and passing into legend as “the Lost Kindred”. The journey took its toll on the Wood Elves, as they lost roughly half their number in fending off the bandits, thieves Greenskins and Beasts of the region, but eventually they came to their new home: the Wythel Grove, just west of Karaz-a-Karak (below the lake).

    As their people began converting the Grove into a magical forest and putting up the protective Waystones, the Asrai realised that something had changed within them; in their exodus, they had faced true evil and lost so much that returning to the quiet of the forest and the shelter of their trees felt wrong, they were restless and ill at ease. So it was that many of the Lost Kindred would venture out to protect their sacred grove and hire themselves out as mercenaries to the surrounding forces of Order.

    The Lost Kindred are Basically Wood Elf Lothern Sea Guard: bows, shields and spears.


    Ludwig’s wonderous Grenidiers
    We know nothing about this unit aside from its name and the fact that the Dwarfs hire them in times of need, but from their name we can infer that they’re Imperial.

    Lumpin Croop’s Fighting Co*k’s
    The famous band of Halfling Marksmen from the Moot: The Fighting Co*k’s Hail from their people’s happy little homeland of the Moot. Most halflings are a friendly sort; slow to anger and pacifist by nature, but even amongst this tolerant and easy-going people, there is the odd proverbial rotten apple that spoils an otherwise toothsome batch. In this case Lumpin Croop and his band of marksmen.

    The Fighting Co*k’s are exceptional trackers and extraordinary marksmen who come from a background of poachers and thieves. When they find themselves in an army’s service, they will lead their forces through thick wilderness along routes only they would know, to ambush enemy forces or flank around the side of their enemies. The Fighting Co*k’s have light armour, bows, shields, stalk, vanguard deployment and forest strider.

    Mad Mullah Aklan’d’s Death Commandos
    Arabyan religious zealots who seem to have driven the High Elves out of the Southlands, as well as fighting against the Old World Invaders. Many have branded them extremists, or outright insane, but such detractors often make their criticism in hushed tones or from the safety of their own borders, for anyone speaking such blasphemy within earshot of the Commandos is not long for this world.

    The Commandos to this day hold a greatly esteemed position in Arabyan society; they fight in only the finest equipment and recruit only the bravest among their people. Always the first into battles and the last to stop hacking at their enemies, they have Frenzy and offer leadership buffs to all nearby allies.

    Marienburg Land Ship
    Marienburg is a city built on the water, whose very lifeblood is maritime trade and naval warfare. Such is the extent of their Aquatic nature that even when they fight on land, they will attempt to bring their naval superiority with them.

    Being in such a strategic location at the mouth of the Reik, Marienburg has become one of the richest states in the old world, effectively buying its secession from the Empire in 2429, its growing wealth and power have proven to be a double edged sword however, as they are so commuted to the sea that they struggle to stave off the Bretonnian’s attempt to turn the marshlands of the north into a new dukedom and the longing eyes of the Empire hoping to secure what they see as rightfully theirs once more.

    Due to their shortages in manpower they have had to rely increasingly more on hired mercenaries and privateers to bolster their forces. Something Marienburgers have coveted for their armies for the longest time is the mighty Imperial Steam Tanks, which the Empire refuses to lend out to anyone except at a ridiculous price. Growing eager for something powerful of their own, they struck a secret bargain with the Imperial Gunnery School and Countess Emanuelle to commission this insane Marienburg counterpart to the Steam Tank.

    As soon as they were complete Wissenland required their use in defence of their province, which the Merchant Princes of Marianburg were happy to offer…for a price!

    This unit functions like A massive Steam Tank and Battle Platform in one, with cannons and crew members raining bullets down upon the battlefield. Its unbreakable, causes fear, has high armour and a ward save.


    Mengil’s Manflayers
    Mengil Manhide's Manflayers arm themselves with Greatswords and Repeater crossbows. They prefer to maim, and cripple rather than outright kill, for they will often stop in the heat of battle to acquire new trophies; flaying the dead and the dying they leave in their wake. They march into battle under a banner that is enchanted, creating a nimbus of shadow around Mengil and his warriors, making them near invisible on their approach, by the time their prey catch sight of them, it is already too late.

    In practice, they function like shades with Great weapons: Greatswords, Crossbows, their banner gives them Stalk and they have Frenzy too.


    Mordax, the Great Imperial Dragon
    Somewhere deep within the bowels of the Worlds Edge Mountains there lies a relic of a bygone age; but this was no defiled necromantic tome, nor a weapon of some illustrious hero…but a beast, one that has slumbered for over 7000 years.

    The Great Imperial Dragon stirred, tossing and turning, for in his dreams he saw the horrors of the first chaos invasion; felt the explosion which cast the second moon into the nights sky and heard the noiseless chanting and the thunderous march of Deamons ringing in its ears. The Dragon Mordax was torn from its sleep, as he rose to his feet great wounds that ran the length of his body were made apparent to him once more. These wounds would have been fatal to any other, but Mordax would not be slain so easily; in his pain, he remembered the great war with Chaos, the Collapse of the Polar Gates, the creation of the Chaos Moon, the March of the Deamons; but to him, none of that compared to the great insult of his people, the defilement of his children: the creation of the Chaos Dragons.

    Mordrax was the father of many dragons and all of them had either died fighting at his side or been turned into twisted abominations, now possessed by the will of the Dark Gods and this he could not stand. As he left the cave that could well have been his grave and stretched his wings in the morning sun, his purpose was clear, he would see to it that every one of his twisted children was put out of their misery before he breathed his last.

    Although he is dedicated to hunting down his corrupted offspring, Mordax can sometimes be found fighting alongside various armies in exchange for gold or information on the whereabouts of his targets. His old design is far more ‘traditional fantasy’ so to modernise him, I think we could easily turn him into a Carmine Dragon Which fits his red/Imperial look and name (this would also go well with implementing Elsbeth Von Draken and Her Carmine Dragon at some point).


    Notlob’s Orcish Bolt Throwing Engines

    For many years the only route over Black Mountains was dominated by an Orc encampment run by Harboth and his Black Mountain Boyz. Both Dwarfs and Men tried in vain to remove this stain on their lands and in response Harboth lead merciless raids against his enemies.

    Notlob was already famous among his kind for his ingenuity and craftsmanship; the engines of war at his command had battered down the gates of fortresses from here to Deff Gorge and so when he joined up with Habroth’s Black Mountain Boyz, the forces of Men and Dwarfs didn’t know what hit them.

    The next attempt to dislodge the Greenskins from the area was met with catastrophic failure, as Bolts the size of spears, capable of skewering 3 fully armoured Dwarfs with a well-aimed shot, came raining down upon the humans and Dwarfs. Their losses were so catastrophic that they eventually had to leave the Greenskin raiders alone, leaving any traveling convoys to be plundered, until the Partnership of Notlob and Harbroth was cut short due to a communication breakdown.

    Oglah Khan’s Wolfboyz
    Hailing from the rolling plains of the Eastern Steppes beyond the Darklands, Oglah Khan was once one of the Greatest vassals of the Great Hobgobla Khan. He was greatly admired among his kind for his Martial prowess and his Treacherous nature and it seemed that he was destined to lead his people and bring ruin upon their enemies. Unfortunately for him, his treacherous nature got the better of him, in a great battle between the Hobgobblins and the Cathayans, Oglah Khan saw that Cathay had a stronger more disciplined force and decided to switch sides. But alas, when more Hobgobblins arrived to reinforce they outnumbered the Cathayans 100 to 1 and practically trampled their opponents underfoot, with Oglah turning tail and heading for the hills.

    Oglah’s clan was branded outlaws and since that day, have wandered the lands of others seeking riches and betraying their masters at the first opportunity.

    Rhinox Riders
    There’s an old rite of passage, practised by the Ogre tribes who live in the harsh upper slopes of the Mountains of Mourn, where aspiring Ogres will seek out an adolescent Rhinox during the creatures mating season while the beasts fight for control of their heards and mating rites. These Leadership Challenges usually involve high speed collisions, a lot of blood and often only end with the death of the losing party.

    As with all creatures of the Mountains of Morn, the Rhinox are extremely resilient and they will continue to fight even after their brain has ceased to function, slashing and biting in its final death throes. This means that winning a leadership challenge comes at a massive cost to the victor and puts them in an unnaturally vulnerable position. It is at this point the Hunting Ogre will launch his ambush, for its the only time a lone Ogre could ever dream of dominating such a powerful beast.

    The Ogre sprints towards the wounded Rhinox and vaults on to his back. Those that ride out the bucking, bellowing frenzy that invariably follows will break the beast’s will as it slows and eventually concedes, for if it continued to struggle it would be to bleed to death. Those Ogres that fall off during this violent rodeo are gored and subsequently eaten by their quarry.

    Once a Rhinox has been broken in this manner the newly anointed Rhinox Rider returns to their tribe with their prize, but not for long; there is a fortune to be made as a mercenary for a young Ogre with his own Rhinox, and every spring a few new Bulls from the upper slopes will join together and sell their services as the heaviest shock cavalry known to the Warhammer world.

    Rhinox are the strongest cavalry in the setting, they have Rampage, thick shaggy hide (scaly skin) and Cause Terror.

    Richter Kruger’s Cursed Company
    The Tale of Richter Kruger and his Cursed mercenary band has been a popular legend throughout the lands of men for centuries. The truth behind the myth is a hard thing to ascertain but the most common tales paint Richter as a young and ambitious mercenary captain: profound, talented and ruthless. One day his band found themselves in the service of a Necromancer who was planning a vile campaign against the Empire of Man from the forests of Wolfenburg.

    The Empire suffered heavy losses in this battle of attrition against the necromancer’s forces, yet inch by inch they were gaining ground. Seeing the writing on the wall, Richter sought to end the bloody campaign by running the Necromancer through, and so he did, but with his dying breath the necromancer was able to fight through the blood collecting in is throat and spit out the gargled bloody words of a curse that withered away the flesh from the mercenaries bones and left them all in a heap of armour and bones. The day was won for the Empire and the Mercenaries betrayal was already forgotten…that is, until the very next night when the Mercenaries all rose from the dead as hollowed skeletons.

    Richter now wanders the Old World hundreds of years after his death living out a tragic parody of his old mercenary career; seeking to end his new hellish life, but forever unable to do so. No matter how many times he is cut down in battle he rises anew the next night and every enemy he slays on the battlefield rise immediately in undeath to serve him for eternity.

    Ruglud’s Armoured Orcs
    A famous band of Armoured Orc Mercenaries who have even been known to behired by the Empire from time to time. Ruglud their leader, was once a mighty Orc Warboss who was defeated after many successful raids on Dwarf and Imperial settlements. His defeat brought shame upon his tribe and he was chased out of it, with nothing but his most loyal retinue at his side. The Group wandered the Badlands until they came across the site of a battle that had raged not long past between the Dwarves and Chaos Dwarves.

    Bloodied armour and weapons were scattered across the stone floor and it is these tools that the Orcs would use to define themselves and gain their fame. They are the only Greenskins known to be clad in Dwarven armour and wield Crossbows.


    Scarloc’s Archers
    From within the Realms of Men, Scarloc’s Archers were widely regarded as the best sellswords that money could buy. What their clientele did not realise however was that these Wood Elf Archers had alternative motives. They used their lives as mercenaries as a front to secretly gather information and send it right back to Athel Loren, keeping their kin in the know on all the affairs of the surrounding lands.

    Nevertheless, Scarloc’s Archers were still better sharpshooters than any of their Elven kin could hope of being and with Naieth the Prophetesses foresight guiding their aim, they would surely teach all others on the Isle of Dread the True meaning of Marksmanship.


    Throg’s Hobgoblin Despoilers
    The Dark Lands where these Hobgoblins reside is a truly dismal and treacherous place, full of constant volcanic activity and steaming tar pits that pollute the air and block out the sun. Barely any wildlife can sustain itself here in this desolate wasteland, but that suited the Hobgoblins just fine.

    From their encampment on the eastern side of the Worlds Edge Mountains, the Despoilers began to carve themselves out a small Empire of ruin; soon controlling a good portion of the western Bad Lands, they extended outwards, deep into the mountain passes, eventually clashing with the Throngs of the Dawi.

    One day, their leader Throg disappeared without a trace; some say he was slain leading his kin in an assault of the Dwarven fortress of Raven’s Hold, others link it to the classic treachery of his people, only one thing is for certain: that Throg and his despoilers had left a permanent mark on the world, one that the Dawi at least, would not soon forget.


    Tichi-Huichi’s Raiders
    After the first Chaos invasion, the Lizardmen Empire lay in tatters and their people had been wiped clean from the Old World and most of the Southlands, with their Temple cities toppled and spawning pools defiled.

    There were but a few City vigils left in these distant lands, but one by one they would fall silent. The city of Enxilada in the Southlands was the latest of these bastions to fall to a mysterious Pestilence. It was here in these quiet ruins, tucked out of sight in a thicket of the jungle under a full moon that the spawning pool stirred, and a new generation was born.

    Any plaques that might have foretold this event had long since been lost and no Slann had turned their thoughts to this corner of the world since it fell silent all those years ago, there was but one Lizardmen who knew of the spawning and was there to tend to the new arrivals: Tichi Huichi, the last Enxiladian. In his inspection of the Skink tadpoles, Tichi noticed that they were favoured by the gods and their great crests signified that they would grow to be strong enough to dominate a Cold One; in searching more through the ruins he discovered that a batch of Horned Ones had been born in tandem to the new Skinks. Without the Slann there to offer guidance or a Plaque to direct his actions, Tichi Huichi did not know what the great plan had in store for him or these young ones, but he knew that they were destined for greatness.

    Soon Tichi had raised the Skinks to be incredible riders and taught them all he knew of Enxiadan Culture, they were ready to face the world and it was at this time that a Slann from Zlatlan (Tiktaq’to start position) turned his attention at last to the ruins and the new Skink cavalry their in. The Slann evoked profound thoughts within Tuichi Huichi’s mind and he finally understood his purpose. Saddling their Horned One mounts, he and his Skinks rode north to the Great Desert and the lands of Araby and Nehekhara.

    Tichi and his band of Raiders would go from place to place and offer their services to the other races in return for nothing but the ancient Lizardmen relics that they had in their possession. Secretly aided by the Slann in Zlatlan who would project thoughts into the Masters of Tichi Huichi’s raiders, persuading them to hand over their relics and thus securing them for the children of the old ones once more.

    Tichi Huichi’s raiders are light armoured Anti-Large Horned One Riders that cause fear and have a unique ability similar to Nasty Skulkers where they cast a tropical fatigue on their enemies that slows them down, but in this case it is designed so the Raiders can pull out of an engagement without fear of being pursued.


    Ulther’s Dragon Company
    Ulther’s quest to retake his home from the Red Eye tribe has attracted all sorts to his cause, from Kislevites, to Imperials and other young aspiring Dwarfs looking to prove their worth. Together they form Ulther’s Dragon Company: a rag tag army of skirmishers who engage in Guerrilla warfare with the Greenskins and the Chaos Dwarfs of the Worlds Edge Mountains.

    Implementation into Warhammer 2
    It is stated that the Dragon Company focuses on a Skirmishing role: ambushing their foes and peppering them with Pistol and Crossbow fire as they close the distance, before finishing the job with axes at close range. To distinguish them from the Rangers (with whom they share a lot of similarities) CA could give them Stalk, Fire Whilst moving and pistols (perhaps with a smaller range).

    Where Rangers are Missile units with decent melee capabilities; Ulther’s Dragon Company are Melee units with decent ranged capabilities. Mainly using their missile attacks to chase down routing units or to close the distance from when they are discovered until they engage in melee.

    Undead Samurai
    This is one of many units that GW said they might expand upon but left on the drawing board over the years. It should really be put to one side but it’s a cool idea and I already made the Image so…
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited October 20
    Other units that we know too little about, are now outdated or would be better served elsewhere:
    Akhibar’s Deathdealers (Araby)
    -Citadel Journal #4

    Araby Corsairs
    -DoW Army Book

    Beorg Bearstruck (Norsca)
    -DoW 5th ed Army Book
    -White Dwarf #225, #252

    The Black Arrows
    -White Dwarf #101

    The Bowmen of Oreon
    -Citadel RR7

    Breed of Nightgar
    - Beasts of Chaos (Beastmen 6th Ed)

    Celestial Dragon Monks
    -High Elf 6th ed Army Book

    Clegg’s Halflings
    -Citadel Journal #10

    Disciples of the Red Redemption
    -Citadel RR16, RRD7

    Crazed Caledonians (Albion)
    -White Dwarf #205

    Drogg’s Black Powder Mercenaries (Ogres)
    -White Dwarf #409

    Eeza Ugezod’s Mother Crushers (Black Orcs)
    -Citadel RR18, RRD8

    Eladrial and the Company of Light (High Elves)
    -white Dwarf #194

    Elwing’s Elven Guard Cavalry (High Elf Cavalry)
    -Citadel RR10

    Fat Lady Fighters
    -White Dwarf #205

    Feirsinger’s Free Lances (Musillon bandit Cavalry)
    -Warhammer RPG 2nd ed, Barony of the Damned

    Flying Gargoyles of Barda
    -Citadel RR12

    The Goodly/Warrior Knights of Law
    -Citadel SS5

    Gorganash’s blood Drinkers
    -Dark Elves 6th ed Army Book

    Gorrskull’s War Trolls
    -Citadel Journal #37

    Grom’s Goblin Guard (Orc Sized Goblins)
    -Citadel RR3

    Guuzunda Wallrattler’s Masters of the Pond
    -white Dwarf #96

    Hagar Whitefang’s Were-Marauders (Norsca)
    -DoW 5th ed page 3

    Khalag’s Sure Shots
    -DoW 5th ed Army Book p3

    The Knights of Origo (Bretonnia)
    -Citadel RR2

    Lothern City Guard
    -Citadel RR13

    Manglar’s Mutant Goblins
    -White Dwarf #231

    The Nightmare Legion
    -Citadel RRD2

    Night Stalkers of Kathandol
    -Lizardmen 6th ed Army Book

    Oglah Khan (Hobgoblin)
    -White Dwarf #231, #252

    Old Funders Boys (Ogre Mercenaries)
    -citadel Journal #7

    Silmaneth’s Shadow Host
    -Greenskins 6th Ed Army Book

    Torston Treehaka’s Sea Axes (Light Armoured Dwarf’s from Karak Norn)
    -white Dwarf #307

    Thrugg’s Barbarians
    -citadel Journal #9

    Toxotes Hellmounts (Chaos Centaurs, old versions of Centigors)
    -citadel Journal #41
    -White Dwarf #98
    Post edited by SeanJeanquoi on
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    Unfortunately half of the backstory was sent away to be cleared by the forums. it should return shortly.

    Let me know what you think about DoW, these units, etc in the comments. Parts 2-4 are mostly complete already so they aren't far off.

    Big thanks to @Bies @Red_Dox @OdTengri and @Ol_Nessie for either helping me Directly or indirectly with their great posts :)

  • SultschiemSultschiem Posts: 1,646Registered Users
    Why do people keep forgetting Long Drong`s Slayer Pirates?...
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users

    Why do people keep forgetting Long Drong`s Slayer Pirates?...

    they're going to be in part 3, don't worry :)
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 2,166Registered Users
    I'm not convinced having DoW as the rogues armies and I really don't think they should be horde factions. Make them a semi horde à la Norsca if you really want to have the horde mechanic but not a complete horde faction, even if they are mercenaries they still own lands.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    neodeinos said:

    I'm not convinced having DoW as the rogues armies and I really don't think they should be horde factions. Make them a semi horde à la Norsca if you really want to have the horde mechanic but not a complete horde faction, even if they are mercenaries they still own lands.

    They literally don't own lands. In fact, even making them a faction of their own requires CA take some liberties. if we were to go for a 1-1 conversion then they would just be a recruitment pool available to everyone which would A: be a waste and B: break the balance of each factions if everyone can just hire Rhinoxen Cav.

    I get that the idea of turning anything into a horde sounds iffy right now because hordes are still broken but with the Dogs of war, they really do need to have a unique nomadic playstyle to reflect who and what they are.

    If you want DoW factions that have settlements: thats What the Border Princes are, which is why I personally think characters like Mengil should be different.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 2,166Registered Users

    neodeinos said:

    I'm not convinced having DoW as the rogues armies and I really don't think they should be horde factions. Make them a semi horde à la Norsca if you really want to have the horde mechanic but not a complete horde faction, even if they are mercenaries they still own lands.

    They literally don't own lands. In fact, even making them a faction of their own requires CA take some liberties. if we were to go for a 1-1 conversion then they would just be a recruitment pool available to everyone which would A: be a waste and B: break the balance of each factions if everyone can just hire Rhinoxen Cav.

    I get that the idea of turning anything into a horde sounds iffy right now because hordes are still broken but with the Dogs of war, they really do need to have a unique nomadic playstyle to reflect who and what they are.

    If you want DoW factions that have settlements: thats What the Border Princes are, which is why I personally think characters like Mengil should be different.
    Pigbarters, the Sentinels. Most of their legendary lords are from the Southern Realms so they do have lands.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited October 20
    @neodeinos

    I Addressed this in my OP:

    "There is a common misconception that "the Dogs of War" are exclusively connected to Tilea, but this is untrue, Tilea and Estalia are just some of their best customers. Dogs of War are rogues and ruffians from every race and creed imaginable: from Cathay to the Amazons, from Vampires to the Empire, the Greenskins; you name it and there is probably a mercenary regiment from that race within the Dogs of War roster.

    These Mercenaries follow the coin and live nomadic lives, roaming from master to master, playing both sides of a conflict trying to get as rich as they can without getting killed."


    the Dogs of War are not Southern Realm factions, its just that the Southern Realms rely on Dogs of War to field armies.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 2,166Registered Users
    Not saying it's a Southern Realms factions. I'm just saying that the most importants LLs are from the SR.
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 2,130Registered Users
    Technically pirates also don’t have any lands but we all know that they do in warhammer.

    So I don’t see a problem with DoW.

    Don’t think just about a bunch of mixed mercenaries.
    DoW factions could be like Wulfharts faction.
    You play some kind of Expedition and the units are mercenaries. Works perfectly fine.

    In ME you will probably get Miragiliano as a faction so you play a City state with mercenarie forces.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    neodeinos said:

    Not saying it's a Southern Realms factions. I'm just saying that the most importants LLs are from the SR.

    But those characters themselves aren't actually Dogs of War. Borgio the Besieger, Lucrezzia Belladonna, Gashnag, Lietpold and so on are Southern Realms Characters who hire mercenaries, they aren't mercenaries themselves. They have kingdoms of their own and don't wander the world in search of coin like Mengil or Asarnil does.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @ArneSo

    @neodeinos

    The distinction should become clearer in part 2.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 2,166Registered Users

    neodeinos said:

    Not saying it's a Southern Realms factions. I'm just saying that the most importants LLs are from the SR.

    But those characters themselves aren't actually Dogs of War. Borgio the Besieger, Lucrezzia Belladonna, Gashnag, Lietpold and so on are Southern Realms Characters who hire mercenaries, they aren't mercenaries themselves. They have kingdoms of their own and don't wander the world in search of coin like Mengil or Asarnil does.
    But they are hiring DoW mercenaries that's enough to put them in that faction and let's not forget that some of these mercenaries are from the Southern Realms as well like the Birdmen of Catrazza for instance. I'm fairly sure at least one LL from Miragliano is guaranted to happen if we ever get DoW, mixing DoW and the Southern Realms is the best way to go.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @neodeinos

    Like I said, we should probably have this discussion after I do part 2 which covers Tilea and Estalia.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 2,166Registered Users
    I'll wait for the part 2 then o:)
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,924Registered Users

    neodeinos said:

    Not saying it's a Southern Realms factions. I'm just saying that the most importants LLs are from the SR.

    But those characters themselves aren't actually Dogs of War. Borgio the Besieger, Lucrezzia Belladonna, Gashnag, Lietpold and so on are Southern Realms Characters who hire mercenaries, they aren't mercenaries themselves. They have kingdoms of their own and don't wander the world in search of coin like Mengil or Asarnil does.
    This is complete nonsense. Borgio may be the greatest and most famous mercenary ever.
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users
    edited October 20

    neodeinos said:

    Not saying it's a Southern Realms factions. I'm just saying that the most importants LLs are from the SR.

    But those characters themselves aren't actually Dogs of War. Borgio the Besieger, Lucrezzia Belladonna, Gashnag, Lietpold and so on are Southern Realms Characters who hire mercenaries, they aren't mercenaries themselves. They have kingdoms of their own and don't wander the world in search of coin like Mengil or Asarnil does.
    Borgio and Lucrezzia are categorically DoW. Their entries are first listed in the original DoW codex and they could be hired just like any other unit from that book. Following the publication of the 6th ed DoW roster which enabled entirely mercenary armies, they were listed as lord choices again.

    Borgio specifically is described both as a Mercenary General and a Merchant Prince. Reading between the lines, it seems Borgio was a mercenary earlier in life and then seized control of Miragliano by force. In fact, the official account states "2485- Borgio makes himself Prince of Miragliano"

    Lucrezzia's loyalties are constantly shifting with each new husband and while she is the de facto ruler of Pavona, that city is not currently on the TW map. Besides, if DoW are implemented at all it'll either be in WH2 or WH3 with neither map encompassing the Southern Realms territories.

    Lorenzo Lupo doesn't take control of Luccini until a few years after the supposed start of the TW campaign. Again reading between the lines, it's possible and maybe even likely that before this time he was marshaling support and consolidating power abroad.

    Lietpold is a textbook DoW character even if he didn't appear in the original DoW book. The very first line of his Tamurkhan entry reads "A notorious mercenary commander, and in recent years, self-made Border Prince..." And since the events of Tamurkhan take place around the year 2510 IC, 8 years after the start of the TW campaign, it's within the realm of possibility that Lietpold would not yet have carved out his petty kingdom in the Border Princes when the TW campaign starts.

    It seems to be well within the character of the DoW for Princes and rulers mentioned in connection to the DoW to have been mercenaries in their early lives.
    Post edited by Ol_Nessie on
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited October 20
    @Ol_Nessie

    Yes but If they were implemented into the game that would all be past tense. They are both rulers now and most of their lore in the present/looking to the future talks about them furthering their own agenda, rather than working for somebody else's.

    My overall point was that these characters have land of their own and hire mercenaries to further their own goals, unlike Mengil or Asarnil who are both merc's themselves and work for the agenda's of others.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited October 20
    @Ol_Nessie

    Even in Lietpold's case, there is really no one else who could replace him in the Border Princes and if we move the timeline any further along (game 3 and the end times) then he loses everything because the whole area is wiped off the map.

    We could make him a nomad as well sure, but why? and at this point we've moved well beyond the context of the statement you're responding to.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users

    @Ol_Nessie

    Yes but If they were implemented into the game that would all be past tense. They are both rulers now and most of their lore in the present/looking to the future talks about them furthering their own agenda, rather than working for somebody else's.

    My overall point was that these characters have land of their own and hire mercenaries to further their own goals, unlike Mengil or Asarnil who are both merc's themselves and work for the agenda's of others.

    Why does that necessarily have to be in the past? Make it so those characters' younger days are the present and their tenure as rulers of their respective cities happens later on. It's not like those dates in the DoW army book really have any other impact on the WH world; nothing else is upset by shifting the timeline a skosh. And if it means Borgio and Lucrezzia can be DoW LLs instead of two elves (ick), all the better.

    If that's not to your taste, I've long since come up with a scenario which would excuse them from residing in their present cities. Borgio's assassination occurs in 2503, one year after the campaign supposedly starts (Franz's coronation in 2502). This date is close enough so that you could maybe start the campaign after the attempt which he has yet again survived (he kinda has a knack for that actually).

    According to the book, it's suspected (which in WH terms probably means it's true) that Lucrezzia is behind the incident. She goes on the run and he chases her or else tries to discover who tried to kill him and the trail leads him to the New World (if this is in WH2) or the Dark Lands (WH3). Maybe he's grown weary of Tilean politics anyway and yearns for his younger days as a Mercenary General.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Posts: 945Registered Users
    Nice thread, keep up the good work.

    Thats why DoW would be terrible as pre order. They must be at least CP in game 3 or core, so much stuff incomming.

    I would prefer cutting out all GS, CD, chaos related and undead mercenaries (except you play Gnadhag) to make it more realistic and fitting TWW and to let them be a neutral faction.

    Even a dwarven mercenary would not fight beside GS.

    And chaos should be by chaos.

    Bearszruck and his guys is perfect 3rd LL for Norsca.
  • FossowayFossoway Posts: 2,413Registered Users
    Would much prefer Mengil Manhide as the next DE Lord, tbh. At least he has some personality.
  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Posts: 945Registered Users
    Maybe DoW is so big, CA considered them not as CP for game 3, because game 3 core and the possible bunch of LPs is more fitting.

    DoW vs Kislev
    I cant understand why the majority thinks Kislev will be core in game 3 (unless the LPs will not treat the core factions equal) they will/can not support any LP.

    So DoW would be much better as core than Kislev, while the latter couls be easily faction pack which means pre order.
  • AsamuAsamu Posts: 597Registered Users
    edited October 20
    neodeinos said:

    I'm not convinced having DoW as the rogues armies and I really don't think they should be horde factions. Make them a semi horde à la Norsca if you really want to have the horde mechanic but not a complete horde faction, even if they are mercenaries they still own lands.

    There's enough in the Dogs of War roster to make a Tilea faction that doesn't overlap with the rogue armies or use units outside of the armybook, and it makes more sense for them to be attached to settlements. Because they're the "dogs of war" and fight everywhere, there's an excuse to put the lords pretty much anywhere on the map.

    Here's a complete roster, taken just from the generic units in the Dogs of War book:

    Lords:
    Lucrezzia Belladonna, Lorenzo Lupo, Borgio the Besieger, Leonardo da Miragliano, and/or Minas the Mean; 4 of these would make the LL for the faction.
    Mercenary General
    Wizard Lord

    Heroes:
    Hireling Wizard
    Paymaster
    Mercenary Captain
    Gotrek & Felix

    Infantry:
    Duelists (using 2 swords or sword + dagger; all duelist units have a loose formation)
    Duelists (Shields) - slightly better than empire swordsmen
    Pikemen
    Pikemen (Heavy armour)
    Mercenary Dwarfs
    Mercenary Dwarfs (great weapons)
    Paymaster's Bodyguard - Halberd infantry; better than empire halberds (+1 Weapon skill/Strength/initiative/ld on TT)
    Paymaster's Bodyguard (Shields)
    Paymaster's Bodyguard (Heavy armour)
    Paymaster's Bodyguard (Heavy armour and Shields)
    Halflings - wield spear + shield. Probably should cost ~200 with awful stats, but good leadership (They had ld 8 on TT, which is the same as chaos warriors, and equivalent to ~65+ ld in TWW).

    Missile Infantry:
    Duelists (Pistols) - similar to free company
    Duelists (Throwing weapons - probably knives)
    Halfling Slingers
    Halfling Archers
    Crossbowmen
    Crossbowmen (Pavise)
    Mercenary Dwarfs (Crossbows)

    Monstrous Infantry/monsters:
    Mercenary Ogres
    Mercenary Ogres (Great weapons)
    Giant

    Cavalry:
    Heavy Cavalry (generic Knights w/ shield + lance; pretty much equal to Knights Errant from Bretonnia)
    Light Cavalry
    Light Cavalry (Shields)
    Light Cavalry Archers

    Flying "cavalry":
    Birdmen - Crossbowmen with wings made from a light wooden frame and canvas.

    Artillery:
    Halfling Hot Pot
    Mercenary Cannon
    Galloper Guns - light cannons on carriages pulled by horses

    Regiments of Renown:
    Vespero's Vendetta - Duelists RoR
    Voland's Venators - heavy cavalry RoR
    Ricco's Republican Guard, The Alcatani Fellowship, or Leopold's Leopard Company - Pikemen RoR
    Marksmen of Miragliano - Crossbowmen RoR
    Braganza's Besiegers - Crossbowmen (Pavise) RoR
    Birdmen of Catrazza - flying crossbowmen
    Bronzino's Galloper Guns - horse-pulled light cannons
    Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks - Halfling Archers RoR w/ vanguard
    Giant of Albion (maybe)

    Even dropping Mercenary Dwarfs and/or Halflings, it's a complete roster for Tilea just from the Dogs of War book. Galloper guns, Pavise Crossbowmen, and Birdmen are based on the RoR variants, as they didn't have unit versions outside of those.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,924Registered Users
    edited October 20

    @Ol_Nessie

    Yes but If they were implemented into the game that would all be past tense. They are both rulers now and most of their lore in the present/looking to the future talks about them furthering their own agenda, rather than working for somebody else's.

    My overall point was that these characters have land of their own and hire mercenaries to further their own goals, unlike Mengil or Asarnil who are both merc's themselves and work for the agenda's of others.

    You dont get the lore behind Borgio. He was allready ruling when he got the nickname the besieger. He was a mercenary general who fought against pretty much all other cities at one time or another (again after becoming the prince of Miragliano). For gold. He got the nickname the besieger after winning so many field battles that other mercenaries and cities refused to face him in battle. He then defeated them in sieges using the great libraries of Miragliano and the texts of Leonardo. He was so feared as a mercenary general everyone resorted to trying to assasinate him rather than face him. Nothing of this is past tense. He never retired like you imply.
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Posts: 1,456Registered Users
    1. To OP: awesome post, dude

    2. I did not have Gashnag on my radar. What an interesting character.
    But Vampire /Living army mix badly based on my experience with Saltspite.

    3. I think a DoW faction should be largely humane, a lot of the monsters are more
    interesting as RoR for their respective races. Maybe a Dragon or some Ogres
    but that´s it I think.

    Limiting the roster would also solve the Balancing issues.

    I could see DoW as a Gotrek & Felix type download.


  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users

    @Ol_Nessie

    Even in Lietpold's case, there is really no one else who could replace him in the Border Princes and if we move the timeline any further along (game 3 and the end times) then he loses everything because the whole area is wiped off the map.

    We could make him a nomad as well sure, but why? and at this point we've moved well beyond the context of the statement you're responding to.

    Why do the Border Princes have to be playable? They're a buffer state, like, by definition. They have very little role or influence on the WH world except as red shirts for whichever invasion is trending this week. And since we're talking either WH2 or WH3 here, it's kind of irrelevant; the Border Princes, along with Tilea and Estalia for that matter, don't or likely won't exist on the standalone campaigns for either title.

    Maybe they could bring Lietpold back to the BP for ME where he functions more like a traditional faction, while on the Vortex or WH3 standalone he functions more like a mercenary expedition as you described. I do agree with you that the most appropriate way to implement the DoW is as a nomadic/expeditionary/horde type race. But that doesn't preclude the most prominent DoW characters from being the featured LLs. Why should Lietpold be a nomad? Because that's literally how he operated early in his career.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Posts: 945Registered Users
    edited October 20
    Wouldnt it be a good fit to give DoW arabian war elephants (or elephants of Ind) as a new unit in TWW?

    Instead if Ogre rhinox rider and albion giants should be 2 ror only.
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