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Dogs of War Army List Part 1

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  • YitterbumYitterbum Posts: 206Registered Users
    DoW and Southern Realms have too limited of rosters to be separated as independent races. Both entities were combined in the same army book, so it would be doing them a disservice to have them separated out.

    Also, some of these units were taken from fan made army books and do not exist even in lore. DoW/Southern Realms already have plenty of material from their old army book, lore, and by reverse engineering their RoR to avoid making units up on the spot.


    Potential Legendary Lords:
    • Lucrezzia Belladonna (Spellcaster)
    • Borgio the Besieger
    • Leitpold the Black
    • Lorenzo Lupo
    • Marco Columbo

    Southern Realms Army List:
    The core army of the Southern Realms. Its focus is on pike and shot.
    Lords:
    • Mercenary General
    • Hireling Wizard Lord
    Heroes:
    • Mercenary Hero (Similar to an empire captain)
    • Hireling Wizard
    • Paymaster (Support hero focusing on moral buffs)
    Infantry:
    • Sellswords (RoR: Manaans Blades)
    • Pikemen (RoR: Leopold's Leopard Company)
    • Armored Pikemen (RoR: Alcanti Fellowship or Ricco's Republican Guard)
    • Duelists (dual swords with vanguard deploy and stalk) (RoR: Vespero's Vendetta)
    • Estalian Diestros (anti-infantry rapiers) (From Estalian lore)
    • Paymaster's Bodyguard (elite armored halberdiers)
    Ranged Infantry:
    • Crossbowmen (RoR: Birdmen of Catrazza. Similar to what CA did for Raven Heralds)
    • Pavise Crossbowmen (RoR: Braganza's Besiegers)
    • Border Rangers (Archers) (From Border Princes lore)
    Hybrid Infantry:
    • Armored Pikemen with Crossbows (RoR: Pirazzo's Lost Legion)
    • Duelists (sword and pistol)
    Cavalry:
    • Mercenary Light Cavalry (sword/buckler) (RoR: Al Muktar's Desert Dogs)
    • Mercenary Light Cavalry (bows)
    • Mercenary Heavy Cavalry (RoR: Voland's Venators)
    • Knights Encarmine (Elite anti-infantry heavy cavalry) (From Tilean lore)
    Artillery:
    • Light Cannons (RoR: Bronzino's Galloper Guns)
    • Cannons
    • Mortars

    Potential Mercenaries from Other Factions:
    Mercenaries from other factions that they can hire. Something like a separate building chain or tech will be needed to unlock the mercenaries from each race.
    Dwarfs:
    • Slayer Pirates (melee and pistol) (RoR: Long Drong's Slayer Pirates)
    • Dwarf Mercenaries (ax and shield)
    • Dwarf Mercenaries (great weapon)
    • Dwarf Mercenaries (crossbow)
    • Goblin Hewer (I would rather see this be part of the slayers themed DLC for the dwarfs that has been floating around.)
    Ogres:
    • Ogre Maneaters (dual weapon)
    • Ogre Maneaters (great weapon)
    • Rhinox Riders (I would rather not see this in DoW/Southern Realms' roster, since it would take too much away from the Ogre Kingdom's roster.)
    Halflings:
    • Halfling Archers (RoR: Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks)
    • Halfling Spearmen
    • Hot-Pot Catapult
    Norsca:
    • Marauders (ax and shield) (RoR: Bearmen of Urslo)
    • Marauders (great weapon)
    • Marauders (flail)
    Albion:
    • Truthsayer (Hero) (Lore of Life with flock of doom)
    • Dark Emissary (Hero) (Lore of Shadow/Death with raise dead)
    • Fen Beasts (Bound summon by either Truthsayer or Dark Emissary)
    • Albion Giant
    Amazons:
    • Amazons (RoR: Anakonda's Amazons)
    • Serpent Priestess (Hero) (Lore of the Serpent)

    Unique Mercenary RoR/Lords from Other Factions:
    • Tichi-Huichi's Raiders
    • The Cursed Company
    • Mengil Manhide's Manflayers
    • Ruglud's Armoured Orcs
    • Asarnil the Dragonlord
    • Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz
    • Scarloc's Archers


    And if CA is adamant about not having Araby be its own race, then DoW/Southern realms would be the best shot that they have at making an appearance in the game.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users
    @Asamu That's almost exactly what I envision as well. More or less based on the DoW army rules published in 6th edition. I do have some suggestions though.

    While I'm not opposed to Dwarfs or Norscans in the roster, I don't think they should be in as front line infantry. Instead I'd like to see them add some tactical options, so perhaps the Dwarfs could be in as traveling "prospectors" (basically just Dwarf Miners) that could add some Vanguard and AP play. I'd also drop the Dwarfs with Crossbows; DoW already have plenty of options for that. The Norscans could be in as Hunters to give some variety to the DoW missile play. It's a deviation from the original list, but I don't think it should be possible to form an entire front line of either Dwarfs or Norscans. They should be more like auxiliary/support units.

    I'm totally game for extrapolating normal unit types from some of the RoRs and I think you missed an opportunity here. DoW could have a unit of "Legionnaires" based on Pirazzo's Lost Legion who would be pikemen that also have crossbows, not unlike Lothern Sea Guard.

    As for which RoRs would correspond to which generic unit, the Alcatani Fellowship could be the RoR for standard Pikemen, Leopold's Leopard Company for Armored Pikemen, and Ricco's Republican Guard for Paymaster's Bodyguard. I also don't think you need 4 different variants of Paymaster's Bodyguard; one version with halberds and heavy armor would be fine. Shields couldn't be used in conjunction with halberds on TT anyway.

    I think the names of some of the generic units could be more creative. This isn't your fault of course since you're just going off the 6th edition list, but unit names sometimes got a bit more inspired in the later editions. So instead of "Light Cavalry" I'd go with "Free Riders," instead of "Heavy Cavalry" I'd go with "Hedge Knights" or "Freelancers," and instead of "Crossbowmen," I'd go with "Tilean/Estalian Marksmen."

    And just one small snag; you listed Leonardo da Miragliano as a possible LL but he's been dead for more than 400 years in the setting.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 2,165Registered Users
    Cataph did a pretty damn good job for the rosters of the Southern Realms with his mod, I'm expecting something similar with some additions as he couldn't make everything obviously.
  • Bonutz619Bonutz619 Posts: 1,050Registered Users
    Great list. Nice work, OP.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited October 20
    @Yitterbum

    What here isn't legit? I'm aware citadel journal and some white dwarf sources were fan made, I'm curious what you find unloreful though
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Ol_Nessie

    That's basically what I plan on doing, it's the main reason why this is 4 parts, my Tileo-Estalian roster is full of generic conversions from RoR's.

    All this talk about it makes me wish I'd finished writing the script for all of them at once.
  • YitterbumYitterbum Posts: 206Registered Users
    @SeanJeanquoi

    The Lost Kindred, Spellsword, Mad Mullah, Karnac's Lizardmen, Knights of the Cleansing Flame, undead samurai, and Ludwig's Grenadiers are the ones that immediately come to mind. Morax and the fireheart lizards don't seem like official material either. (There is one imperial dragon that is in the imperial zoo of the Empire). There is an actual Order of the Cleansing Flame, but that is a Sigmarite order full of priests.

    Also, Goldseekers is a Dwarf miner RoR.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users
    edited October 21
    Yitterbum said:

    @SeanJeanquoi

    The Lost Kindred, Spellsword, Mad Mullah, Karnac's Lizardmen, Knights of the Cleansing Flame, undead samurai, and Ludwig's Grenadiers are the ones that immediately come to mind. Morax and the fireheart lizards don't seem like official material either. (There is one imperial dragon that is in the imperial zoo of the Empire). There is an actual Order of the Cleansing Flame, but that is a Sigmarite order full of priests.

    Also, Goldseekers is a Dwarf miner RoR.

    Well there's stuff that I just can't find any sources on and then there's stuff that predates the DoW army book. Mad Mullah, Karnac, Knights of the Cleansing Flame, and the Lost Kindred all predate the DoW army book, coming from a time when army rosters were a lot more fluid and there were fewer rules on what you could include in your army. Hell, these things were made back when Dwarfs could have monsters (well, really anyone could have just about any monster they wanted back then). I don't really see them having all that much to do with DoW.

    The other things like the undead samurai, Morax, and fireheart lizards don't ring a bell for me either, and I delved around a bit. The Spellsword sounds like a Hireling Wizard under a different name.

    Ludwig's Grenadiers are a bit of an odd case though. In 6th edition army books, there was always a Rare choice entry for DoW and each one made suggestions for which units you might put in your army. Some of these suggestions referred to units that had not yet been made and unfortunately never were because GW stopped making DoW models after 6th. I did a whole thread on it, but I'll show you what I'm talking about.



    These units have no other descriptions or any other hints about what they might do apart from their names, but it's clear that they were at least on GW's drawing board at some point in time and as such they could be considered official. Here's the link to the thread if you want to look at it: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/245954/dow-units-that-were-left-on-the-drawing-board
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,111Registered Users
    One thing that I feel is definitely off here is the implication that all Rogue Armies should be made DoW-based.

    At least some of them are references to things that happened in WFB history. Vashnaar's Tormentors, for instance, are a reference to a Druchii-abetted Chaos invasion of Hexoatl just before the End Times. CA gave them a Druchii lord rather than a WoC lord (possibly because they wanted them to be able to seize settlements and become a regular faction if they got the opportunity), but giving them a DoW core would make them less accurate, not more.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Yitterbum

    The lost kindred are in the wood elf 6th ed army book in the timeline and in the rare units section. They were then expanded upon in an issue of the citadel journal and finally they show up in a wood elf battle report in white dwarf.

    The battle report doesn't explicitly say its the lost kindred but they're in the exact same location where they ended up.

    The Goldseekers is a miners RoR from Karak Kadrin, I know but the name was too perfect not to use, dwarf mercenaries are a thing in the DoW roster and some people think the dwarf mercs should be miners so it fits really well.

    Similarly: 'Spellswords' was another name I used to spruce up something on this list. In the army book they're called 'wizard hirelings' but spellsword is too perfect and I wanted something gender neutral because I think we should get men and woman spell casters in the DoW as I said in my OP.

    Everything else you mention is not stuff I made up, they're in the source list, they're just old is all. Some of their stuff might be outdated but these are still resources CA can draw from and I think they could easily be workshopped into something good.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Yitterbum

    Mordax is legit and hes one of my favourites to be honest, all I did was change him to a carmine dragon because his old look is too old now. Here's what he was like originally:

  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Draxynnic

    Many of them are literally based off of DoW armies. perhaps not all of them should be transmitted but many/most of them should be. Mengil's Manflayers is one of the Rogue armies right now.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,111Registered Users

    @Draxynnic

    Many of them are literally based off of DoW armies. perhaps not all of them should be transmitted but many/most of them should be. Mengil's Manflayers is one of the Rogue armies right now.

    Some, yes, but not all, and possibly not even most. And you did use Vashnaar as an example, which is a clear case where having DoW mixed in is not appropriate.

    Honestly, even in Mengil's case, I'd question whether human mercenaries would be willing to serve underneath him. Having him as an ally is one thing, but the guy has a tendency of viciously murdering his subordinates that human mercenaries might not tolerate.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Draxynnic

    Can I point out that in the Dogs of War material stretching way back to before 5th edition it tends to address the fact that these units will not work with each other!

    The Dwarf Mercenaries blurb says that one of the main reasons they became mercenaries was to kill greenskins. Long Drongs slayer pirates rules state that, at the end of the day they're still slayers and still hate Greenskins.

    This could easily translate into the game by prohibiting players from taking units that are in direct opposition to one another.

    I'm not sure why people often bring this up as a point against the faction existing.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,111Registered Users
    It's not a point against the faction existing. I've advocated for DoW in the past.

    Just making the point that stuffing DoW into every Rogue Army wouldn't be appropriate.
  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Posts: 945Registered Users

    @Draxynnic

    Can I point out that in the Dogs of War material stretching way back to before 5th edition it tends to address the fact that these units will not work with each other!

    The Dwarf Mercenaries blurb says that one of the main reasons they became mercenaries was to kill greenskins. Long Drongs slayer pirates rules state that, at the end of the day they're still slayers and still hate Greenskins.

    This could easily translate into the game by prohibiting players from taking units that are in direct opposition to one another.

    I'm not sure why people often bring this up as a point against the faction existing.

    But the handful of GS, undead and chaos units could be cut out instead of a not fun while playing game mechanic that will restrict the player too much.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,070Registered Users
    Ol_Nessie said:

    Yitterbum said:

    @SeanJeanquoi

    The Lost Kindred, Spellsword, Mad Mullah, Karnac's Lizardmen, Knights of the Cleansing Flame, undead samurai, and Ludwig's Grenadiers are the ones that immediately come to mind. Morax and the fireheart lizards don't seem like official material either. (There is one imperial dragon that is in the imperial zoo of the Empire). There is an actual Order of the Cleansing Flame, but that is a Sigmarite order full of priests.

    Also, Goldseekers is a Dwarf miner RoR.

    Well there's stuff that I just can't find any sources on and then there's stuff that predates the DoW army book. Mad Mullah, Karnac, Knights of the Cleansing Flame, and the Lost Kindred all predate the DoW army book, coming from a time when army rosters were a lot more fluid and there were fewer rules on what you could include in your army. Hell, these things were made back when Dwarfs could have monsters (well, really anyone could have just about any monster they wanted back then). I don't really see them having all that much to do with DoW.

    The other things like the undead samurai, Morax, and fireheart lizards don't ring a bell for me either, and I delved around a bit. The Spellsword sounds like a Hireling Wizard under a different name.

    Ludwig's Grenadiers are a bit of an odd case though. In 6th edition army books, there was always a Rare choice entry for DoW and each one made suggestions for which units you might put in your army. Some of these suggestions referred to units that had not yet been made and unfortunately never were because GW stopped making DoW models after 6th. I did a whole thread on it, but I'll show you what I'm talking about.



    These units have no other descriptions or any other hints about what they might do apart from their names, but it's clear that they were at least on GW's drawing board at some point in time and as such they could be considered official. Here's the link to the thread if you want to look at it: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/245954/dow-units-that-were-left-on-the-drawing-board
    These sorts of vagaries are a real boon to CA; if they ever decided to implement the DoW as a race and find the "official" roster to be full of holes (or just not that interesting) they have plenty of semi-canon units like this whose names can be applied to, well, just about anything.
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