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Siege Defence as Vamps?

TheBlaze_64TheBlaze_64 Posts: 201Registered Users
Without range, the Counts are the worst siege defenders in my experience, i was wondering if anyone had any tactics or tips in dealing with this challenge, Thank you in advance.

Comments

  • SteppelordSteppelord Junior Member Posts: 2,184Registered Users
    Well I mean you can summon zombies to stop things from getting to the walls/gates. Stuff like that.
  • FossowayFossoway Posts: 2,212Registered Users
    It may sound dumb, but avoid a situation where you have to defend a siege. You're gonna have a bad time no matter what.

    If it does happen however, the enemy will tend to blob up during sieges, either at the gates or in the narrow streets. That's your cue to nuke them with the Winds of Death spell. You need a wizard with this spell for defense, the more the merrier. Bonus points if they have Arcane Conduit so you can continue spamming it.

    Another thing is to cycle charge these blobs with monsters. The Terrorgheists and Vargheists are particularly good at this, and they can target isolated units too. Hopefully they'll route before your army fall apart.
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Posts: 433Registered Users
    My main issue with Vampire Counts in sieges is actually attacking them. They frequently have vargeists or bats, but they always just hover over the command point and don't move until I've taken the walls and have to move in to kill them.
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Posts: 1,375Registered Users
    there are a couple of things you can do.

    You can´t Heal units on walls, so switch units from ground to the walls
    and heal the ones on the ground

    If enemy has immense amount of Ranged, probably give up the walls,
    you might get shot to pieces.

    With Flyers, look for Missiles / Artillery that stands around undefended
    and charge that. Chase them of the battlefield

    Assassinate characters. Lore of Death, cycle-charge, characters
    AI tends to stupidly overextend them.
    Premier choices are Casters and Lords

    you can clump up at your city centre and spam Heals on your troops
    and outlast your enemy there if you took care of his Ranged and Magic
    Circle charge with Flyers

    Watch your General !!!
  • hanesdavhanesdav Posts: 737Registered Users
    As Vampire Counts you are not supposed to fight defensive siege battles because they have the worst garrisons in the game. Corruption and free units should prevent your enemies from reaching your cities.
  • SephlockSephlock Posts: 1,558Registered Users
    Fossoway said:


    If it does happen however, the enemy will tend to blob up during sieges, either at the gates or in the narrow streets. That's your cue to nuke them with the Winds of Death spell.

    And watch as the wind goes LOOOOOOL and ping pongs off the invisible force field surrounding walls that reflects wind spells :(.
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,324Registered Users
    They actually have a very powerful garrison.

    Your deciding factor is what the enemy has. If they have a lot of artillery, you need to hide. if they have a powerful ranged compliment in general, same deal. If they don't, wall holding is a cinch.

    Large flyers make epic wall defense, and offense, both. Bats aren't particularly useful, but Vargheists and dragons will absolutely destroy the enemy with cycle charges. The tightly bound troops on such a narrowly confined space, results in massive shocks to morale, and fantastic impact damage. The nature of movement behavior also means that you can more easily disengage, because they can't walk between the wall and the ground. This combines to levels of performance many times that of their on field limitations.

    Basically, if you can hold the walls, you can't lose.

    If they have large numbers of ranged units, you need to figure out how to handle them. There are three practical avenues depending on the formulation.

    You can absorb damage with zombies and hide the rest of your army from the initial attacks, and then kill off the ranged component when most of the enemy melee is engaged. This works particularly well against primarily basic archers and low mobility, with a strong cavalry and air power on your side.

    You can hide within the city walls outside of the range of enemy fire, and fight them in the streets. This works poorly if you end up eating the entirety of the enemy's ammunition and is quite dependent on being able to get units to the rear. It does however fare the best, when there are powerful cavalry options to keep you from countering the ranged units.

    The third, and most practical against artillery, is to suicide air and cavalry units. So long as you can hold up long enough, sweeping out with whatever you can get to them with, can be a beneficial tactic against an army you can hold at the walls, provided you have the walls. High arc artillery are particularly devastating, and provided you can kill them before they do substantial damage, it may be worth several fast units, to take out a few artillery. This fares very, very poorly, when the enemy has multiple units of cavalry.
  • Elder_MolochElder_Moloch Posts: 1,777Registered Users

    Without range, the Counts are the worst siege defenders in my experience, i was wondering if anyone had any tactics or tips in dealing with this challenge, Thank you in advance.

    Yeah, it could be quite frustrating and weird.
    I would even say that its a bit weird both to siege (especially without flying units or SEMs or when you don't have unit with Siege Trait) and being seiged with Counts.
    That's another reason why I think new Forts won't fit them at all and don't give them much apart from additional issues, but that's off-topic.


    As for tactics, I usually try to avoid or auto-resolve such situations, if I'm not bothered enough to deal as much damage as possible.

    Anyway, in general:
    @Fossoway suggestion works for situations, when you have Army Garrisoned in your settlement or high tier settlement garrison.

    @doclumbago suggestion works in both cases: when you have army and don't

    I would also add to clarify 100% that you could actually heal/resurrect units on a walls with IoN, if you target ground troops or ground (Alt by default, if I recall it correctly), but unit on a wall is affected with AoE - resurrected models would just spawn on a ground(I don't remember does it give penalties to Vigour though as if you were climbing walls).

    I would also add: put most cheapest one on a wall behind towers just to inflict more damage (especially, if ones are shielded) on approach and if you have RD+mobile mount and opponent can't catch it, use RD to pin/distract important targets, so they would stay longer under missile pressure, when possible.


    Overall, if garrison is weak (which usually a case) and you don't have additional army to back it up, I would say auto-resolve could be a good option, until as I've said, you don't want to inflict as much damage as possible (or focus key units) for later fight.
    If you have good caster of Lore of Vampires or other upgraded Lore of magic, you could do what was described by others and play around this. It could work in cases, when forces are weaker/not much stronger overall, or don't have caster, while you have (and even if they do, you could snipe it usually) or you could cheese AI.


    I still think that Counts should have mechanic similar to Skaven one with summons for own settlements/regions.
    Something like Grave Markers:
    - RNG (or maybe strict) based barrows spots, which would become visible and destructable by opponent after Counts side used them once
    - something like 6 charges with recharge based on corruption (either charges based on corruption in general, but idk)
    - Walls and other related structures or Battle Sites could improve summons or increase charges
    - maybe could work for own region in general, not only for siege battle
    This would give Counts tools for sieges and would make fights vs them more interactive.

    Another thing though, I would personally prefer Necromancer Hero even with single target IoN, rather stronger Vampire Hero, but without healing tools.
    There of course, something like Sylvania Levy could be added, but atm it doesn't seem like fitting thing with current restriction for them.
    I'm not sure in general, if their garrisons need to be empowered or that's actually intended.
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