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Who Will be the 4th Base Game Race for Game 3?

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  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,005

    Reeks said:

    @ArneSo They will insert semi random place holder factions like they have done in the previous games......

    Your truth is that Monogods make perfect sense as DLC, while my truth(witch is way better btw) is that a mini campaign centered around "The Great Game" makes the best kind of sense.

    You don´t know what´s attractive and what is not to the majority of the player base.

    Old GW polls from Tabletop showed Empire Dwarfs, and other more human or relatable races were the most popular. Steam stats for the most played TW races backs that up. Evil and less human races are less played. He's closer to the truth than you are.
    To be fair, WoC was also pretty popular.

    It's just that they weren't as popular as some people would lead you to believe. Monogod advocates often claim that the majority of WFB players played Chaos - I even recall someone claiming that Chaos was the WFB equivalent of Space Marines. None of the statistics, however, back that up. I'd estimate that the number of Chaos players was somewhere around 40-45% of the playerbase (a little over 30% for WoC, with some extra for people who picked up Demons or Beastmen after the split and/or who played Chaos armies without Warriors before the split). That's a significant minority, but it still represents less broad appeal than the Game 2 core races, let alone the Game 1 core races.

    Of course, Game 3 was always going to be a matter of scraping up what was left, but I suspect there are more people who will defer purchase of Game 3 only offers monogods out the gate than if it offers a balanced set.
    Itharus said:

    Itharus said:

    Just sayin' it's called the Dark Lands...

    There's no "order" races there.

    Why does there have to be? Evil has good stories too. Epic quests. Monumental triumphs. Splendor. Great rituals.

    Cool engaging plots are not the sole domain of the good guys.

    If evil were that boring and always defeated... no one would bother being evil.

    And we all know there's absolutely no shortage of evil folk...

    WHFB is a pretty awful setting for bad vs bad as it's so black and white.

    Reality is that good races are the most played in TWW. It'd be really odd to exclude them.
    They're not excluded. That place just doesn't have them.

    Good races should probably be added in either a) because they go ahead and do Cathay, or b) in the game 3 version of mortal empires. No need for 'good' races that aren't supposed to be there added in just for giggles.

    Also it's not black and white.

    They may call the Chaos Dwarf's god a "daemon" - but it's really not. Not any more than the Great Horned Rat or any of the Elven Deities or Sigmar or Mork and Gork.

    It may have started as one. But at this point it's just another deity in the warp.

    Chaos Dwarf is actually a misnomer. They don't serve Chaos as any sort of gestalt and are not even pledged to any of the 4 dark powers. They made a pact with an entity and are off doing their own thing in a way that strengthens it. Just like the Skaven. Sure they're bleepin' evil but it's not standard grade A khorneflake evil.

    Ogres aren't technically chaosy or (for WHFB) particularly evil at all. IIRC they were actually supposed to be a weapon to fight Chaos.

    Hobgoblins aren't chaosy either. I think they may be in a similar boat to the Chaos Dwarfs, not 100% sure. They, like the Ogres... are just... savages.

    All three of those are not "LETS DESTROY THE WORLD FOR THE DARK GODS! RAAAAWWRRR!". One of them gives 0 bleeps and just does their thing, one of them are greedy and insane power hungry slavers, and one is just friggin' hangry.

    Only the Chaos Daemons are strictly traditional dark-gods following blow-everything-up types.

    Regarding the Tomb Kings thing... Khatep actually made sense out there. He gets around and the Tomb Kings DID sail to the new world in antiquity. Khalida being out there is a bit off though, being not a liche priest on a mission or anything. In fact... shes kinda known for just... sitting there in her area, so yeah that was lame.
    Have a couple of comments here:

    The first is that while these distinctions exist, they'll be lost on someone who isn't already familiar with Warhammer fluff. From a layman's point of view, it doesn't matter that the Ogres might not technically be evil, the Hobgoblins just like fighting and raiding, and the Chaos Dwarfs are arguably only doing desperate things in the name of survival. They'll all look evil to the layman.

    The second is that while all these races might not be signing up to partake in the destruction of the world, I don't see any of them going out of the way to oppose it either. The Vortex campaign had a pretty compelling theme where all of the core races had strong conflicting motivations to get involved. By contrast, none of Chaos Dwarfs, Ogres, or any Greenskin has ever really been motivated by a desire to stop Chaos. Ogres and Greenskins will happily fight them, but it's usually due to defending their territory or just looking for a fight - neither care about what Chaos might be doing outside of arm's reach, nor are they going to send expeditions to do anything about it. Even Grimgor's fights with Archaon were motivated more by wanting to find a good fight than to preserve the world.

    The third is that a standalone game should probably have a 'normal' race with relatively forgiving mechanics for new players to cut their teeth on. Historically, that's been the "good" races: Empire and Dwarfs in TWW1, High Elves and Lizardmen in TWW2 (for all veterans sometimes call their racial mechanics boring, this is probably a design choice on CA's side). Alignment aside, I don't see any of DoC, Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, or Hobgoblins filling this slot.
  • Lin_HuichiLin_Huichi Registered Users Posts: 390
    The notion that mono gods will be unprofitable - or at least less profitable than 4 distinct races - is short sighted. Lord packs cost less than campaign packs, almost half. Coming later with Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, etc means the game will sell the same anyway - any sales lost in the initial release will be made up by dlc.

    What's going to make a bigger difference than mono or 4 races is whether the game releases with the Combined map or not. Even with four different races you will be going from a 7 (8 if preorder is Vortex race too) Vortex races to just 4. Going from 15 races in Mortal Empires is a much bigger drop, not to mention the cut in area and province amount.

    I dont care if we get mono gods or not, only that the end combined map comes, regardless of turn times or performance cost.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,254

    The notion that mono gods will be unprofitable - or at least less profitable than 4 distinct races - is short sighted. Lord packs cost less than campaign packs, almost half. Coming later with Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, etc means the game will sell the same anyway - any sales lost in the initial release will be made up by dlc.

    What's going to make a bigger difference than mono or 4 races is whether the game releases with the Combined map or not. Even with four different races you will be going from a 7 (8 if preorder is Vortex race too) Vortex races to just 4. Going from 15 races in Mortal Empires is a much bigger drop, not to mention the cut in area and province amount.

    I dont care if we get mono gods or not, only that the end combined map comes, regardless of turn times or performance cost.

    It will be less profitable immediately because I'm not spending $100AUD on a single race with 4 colours.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 3,443

    The notion that mono gods will be unprofitable - or at least less profitable than 4 distinct races - is short sighted. Lord packs cost less than campaign packs, almost half. Coming later with Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, etc means the game will sell the same anyway - any sales lost in the initial release will be made up by dlc.

    What's going to make a bigger difference than mono or 4 races is whether the game releases with the Combined map or not. Even with four different races you will be going from a 7 (8 if preorder is Vortex race too) Vortex races to just 4. Going from 15 races in Mortal Empires is a much bigger drop, not to mention the cut in area and province amount.

    I dont care if we get mono gods or not, only that the end combined map comes, regardless of turn times or performance cost.

    It will be less profitable immediately because I'm not spending $100AUD on a single race with 4 colours.
    Yeah, if fewer people buy the base game, how is DLC going to make up the difference? Nobody's going to buy a game they don't like just to get a DLC they do, that's nonsensical. If fewer people buy the base game then there will be even less people to buy the DLC.

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,093
    Eh. Then they should give more map and throw in Cathay. They get more conflict with the Dark Lands than the Empire or Kislev do.

    The notion that mono gods will be unprofitable - or at least less profitable than 4 distinct races - is short sighted. Lord packs cost less than campaign packs, almost half. Coming later with Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, etc means the game will sell the same anyway - any sales lost in the initial release will be made up by dlc.

    What's going to make a bigger difference than mono or 4 races is whether the game releases with the Combined map or not. Even with four different races you will be going from a 7 (8 if preorder is Vortex race too) Vortex races to just 4. Going from 15 races in Mortal Empires is a much bigger drop, not to mention the cut in area and province amount.

    I dont care if we get mono gods or not, only that the end combined map comes, regardless of turn times or performance cost.

    It will be less profitable immediately because I'm not spending $100AUD on a single race with 4 colours.
    Yeah, if fewer people buy the base game, how is DLC going to make up the difference? Nobody's going to buy a game they don't like just to get a DLC they do, that's nonsensical. If fewer people buy the base game then there will be even less people to buy the DLC.

    Sure they will. When they can get base game for like $9 or less on a sale. Gotta get them end of cycle dollars somehow.
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 4,346
    @Itharus
    I really doubt that CAs strategy is to sell less copies at launch and more copies on a sale one year after release. That doesn’t make any sense. 😂
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 3,443
    Itharus said:

    Eh. Then they should give more map and throw in Cathay. They get more conflict with the Dark Lands than the Empire or Kislev do.

    The notion that mono gods will be unprofitable - or at least less profitable than 4 distinct races - is short sighted. Lord packs cost less than campaign packs, almost half. Coming later with Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, etc means the game will sell the same anyway - any sales lost in the initial release will be made up by dlc.

    What's going to make a bigger difference than mono or 4 races is whether the game releases with the Combined map or not. Even with four different races you will be going from a 7 (8 if preorder is Vortex race too) Vortex races to just 4. Going from 15 races in Mortal Empires is a much bigger drop, not to mention the cut in area and province amount.

    I dont care if we get mono gods or not, only that the end combined map comes, regardless of turn times or performance cost.

    It will be less profitable immediately because I'm not spending $100AUD on a single race with 4 colours.
    Yeah, if fewer people buy the base game, how is DLC going to make up the difference? Nobody's going to buy a game they don't like just to get a DLC they do, that's nonsensical. If fewer people buy the base game then there will be even less people to buy the DLC.

    Sure they will. When they can get base game for like $9 or less on a sale. Gotta get them end of cycle dollars somehow.
    Yeah, that's a recipe to lose money. They sell the game at $60 for a reason. No successful business plan hinges on sales. They hinge on preorders and up-front purchases. Sales later in the game's life cycle juice profits, but the bulk of the money comes up front.
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 4,346
    @Draculasaurus
    Are you assuming that CA is focused on making money and not on making chaos fanboys happy? 😱
  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 724
    Itharus said:

    What edition or game is that map from o_O

    Is it the same in English?

    I don't know, I have found this map on this thread: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/220806/kingdoms-of-the-east/p2

    You can find more maps and infomations about Kislev colonies in this thread: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/251971/race-map-for-remaining-warhammer-world-rough-help-me-improve-it-xd
    Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne!
    Dwarfs need Slayer Lord pack: https://imgur.com/x74HxxU
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,093
    You guys missed the key phrase in my post:

    "gotta get them end of cycle dollars"

    Products have life cycles.

    The people who won't get the thing "now" will get it later, if it's their sorta thing. Not everyone buys at the same point in the life cycle.
  • DerPhonixDerPhonix Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 438
    edited November 2019
    OdTengri said:

    Of course you going to get endless half brained responses for Cathay and Mono-Gods...

    Why did you start this thread its been done to death a million times. Can someone close it.

    If monogods at no point during the trilogy will be released as separate races what will be the two DLC factions in your opinion?

    You can say that the prospect of getting cathay, or monogods etc included is ridiculous all the long. The fact still remains that there are not nearly enough "core" races left to fill the 7-9 race spots left.

    Well @DerPhonix lets start with what was the original question, "Who will be the 4th Base Game race for game 3?"

    So when I said not Cathay or Mono-gods, it was in reference to them being "Core" or "Base Game" races. I didn't rule them out as DLC races.

    As for my thoughts for DLC.... We might not get 2 DLC factions... That's simple enough. Game 1 got 5 DLC/FLC races, Game 2 looks like 2 or 3, so its not like there's any guarantee we get any specific number. Maybe there's just gonna be a ton of Lord Packs for DLC who knows.

    I do think we will get DLC factions though. I figure that 4 of the following 5 races will be Core (Daemons of Chaos, Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev and/or Dogs of War) the remainder will be DLC and we certainly have a good shot of seeing Mono-God DLC in some shape or form. (Maybe Lord Packs, Hopefully Campaign Packs)

    So despite of the fact that they there is enough lore to do 4 different chaos races and clearly a huge financial incentive to do the same amount of races for the third game as the previous two, all of a sudden there is no longer going to be any DLC races? Does that make logically sense?

    Clearly, there will be a similar amount of races in the third game as the previous two. And if that is the case, clearly, they will have to include either the 4 chaos gods as separate races, or obscure races like Cathay.

    Post edited by DerPhonix on
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,005

    The notion that mono gods will be unprofitable - or at least less profitable than 4 distinct races - is short sighted. Lord packs cost less than campaign packs, almost half. Coming later with Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, etc means the game will sell the same anyway - any sales lost in the initial release will be made up by dlc.

    What's going to make a bigger difference than mono or 4 races is whether the game releases with the Combined map or not. Even with four different races you will be going from a 7 (8 if preorder is Vortex race too) Vortex races to just 4. Going from 15 races in Mortal Empires is a much bigger drop, not to mention the cut in area and province amount.

    I dont care if we get mono gods or not, only that the end combined map comes, regardless of turn times or performance cost.

    It's been acknowledged a few times by gaming companies that they get the most profit in both the long and the short term through a strong initial launch. It gives them a higher immediate return (which they can then reinvest into future projects), and high sales can, in itself, beget more sales through people seeing that a game is popular and deciding to check it out themselves. This is part of the reason why things like preorder bonuses and early adopter bonuses exist.

    If something has a weak launch, though, it can't get this cascading effect. The DLCs might be weaker because they had less money to invest in them, and it's not going to have the "popularity begets popularity" effect - in fact, people might see that it's not as popular as its predecessors and decide that there must be something wrong with it before even looking at the races. And as people have pointed out, someone who doesn't buy in during the initial press frenzy might not come back for the DLC because by then their attention might be occupied by something else. I have a friend who's a big Wood Elf fan who bought into TWW1 when I told them the Wood Elves had been announced, but they might not have known if I hadn't told them, because at that point they weren't paying close attention to the game.

    Realistically speaking, everyone who's participating in this thread is invested enough that they're probably going to buy TWW3 eventually regardless, whether it's on announcement or a few years down the track when it's on a 90% off special and all of the races from the previous installments have had their Game 3 reworks. But we don't represent the majority of the fanbase. There are plenty of games out there that I was initially interested in, didn't get invested into for one reason or another, and because of that lack of investment, haven't been paying enough attention to know when expansions and DLC are added that might make me more interested are added. (There is one example I can think of where exactly that happened, but that involved being told... and I still didn't go ahead and buy the game in question anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) Even if they do find out, it might take a significant discount before they're willing to pay the price of the base game plus the DLC if it's only the DLC race that they're interested in.

    In short, rolling out a set of starting races that only appeals to a narrow subset of possible customers in the hope of bringing in the rest through DLC later simply doesn't work. There are reasons why the first couple of games launched with the more popular races that were present in the region, with the less popular coming as DLC (WoC being an exception to that rule, but that's a special case that CA originally planned to hold back on). Besides, if CA is planning to tackle monogods as separate races, that in itself gives them a solid basis for DLC.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 3,565
    DerPhonix said:

    So despite of the fact that they there is enough lore to do 4 different chaos races and clearly a huge financial incentive to do the same amount of races for the third game as the previous two, all of a sudden there is no longer going to be any DLC races? Does that make logically sense?

    Clearly, there will be a similar amount of races in the third game as the previous two. And if that is the case, clearly, they will have to include either the 4 chaos gods as separate races, or obscure races like Cathay.

    First.... Fix your Quotes, you F'd them up.

    Second... I didn't say they wouldn't do 4 Chaos Races... I said they wouldn't be CORE... LEARN TO READ....

    Third..... They clearly haven't and won't do as much Campaign Pack DLC for Game 2 as they did for Game 1. So your statement "[They] clearly a huge financial incentive to do the same amount of races for the third game as the previous two" becomes really F'n stupid because they haven't done as much Campaign Pack DLC for game 2 as they did for 1, despite their financial motivations... They already seem to be switching gears to less Campaign Packs and more Lord Packs for DLC which is in line with my statements. CA is clearly running out of races that they can/want to do.

    Fourth.... I said IT IS LIKELY we will some nod to Monogods in some form as DLC, how though is dependent on how "grand" CA's vision is and what GW will let them do.

    Fifth.... If CA didn't want to do Araby or GW didn't let them you can bet the same is true for Cathay.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,005
    Actually, they DID do the same number of campaign packs. TWW1 had two (Wood Elves and Beastmen), just like TWW2 (Tomb Kings and Zombie Pirates).

    It's just that TWW1 also had its own preorder, Game 2's preorder, and an FLC race. And statements from Grace have indicated that Game 3's preorder may be a race for game 2, despite the statement that game 2 DLC is (otherwise) only going to be lord packs from here on.

    I'd also point out that CA probably has more opportunity to go ham with DLC for game 3 than for previous games. Game 1 and Game 2 DLC had the time constraint that the next game in the sequence was coming at some point - Game 3 has been in development longer than game 2 took, but this has allowed for there to be more game 2 DLC overall even with the slower pace of release for Game 2 DLC. Game 3 isn't going to have this limit - the main practical limit it's likely to have is how large the map is and how densely CA is willing to pack playable factions together.
  • IamNotArobotIamNotArobot Registered Users Posts: 617
    I hope you all don’t get so surprised when they announce Cathay as 4th base race.

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,005

    I hope you all don’t get so surprised when they announce Cathay as 4th base race.

    Honestly, I've been advocating it, and I'd have to say I'd be surprised if it happens. Not unpleasantly so, obviously, but I've always considered it to be unlikely.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 3,565
    Draxynnic said:

    Actually, they DID do the same number of campaign packs. TWW1 had two (Wood Elves and Beastmen), just like TWW2 (Tomb Kings and Zombie Pirates).

    Yeah.... and WoC, Norsca, and Bretonnia still make 5 DLC/FLC Races for Game 1, while Game 2 has 2 DLC races, maybe 3. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if the Pre-Order bonus wasn't a Race Pack because as its been pointed out where running out of races. They also said they weren't going to do any more Race Packs and instead make Campaign packs out of New Featured Races.

    Again like I said... Chaos Daemons, Ogre Kingdoms, Daemons of Chaos, Kislev, and Dogs of War, 4 of those are going to be CORE game 3 Races and the other one will be DLC. Monos in some form are likely as DLC after that. They could be Campaign Pack(s) or they could do them as Lord Packs.

    Monos won't be core because they'd make a **** Game 3 and there wouldn't be much of a way to tack on the other Races as DLC to a Mono Core Game 3.

    Araby isn't happening, Cathay isn't happening.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • Lin_HuichiLin_Huichi Registered Users Posts: 390
    I think the pre order race will be Dogs of War. Along with a Wood Elf rework for Mortal Empires. Then the 4 core races will be Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarves, Daemons and Kislev. Alongside will be the Chaos rework for Beastmen, Warriors and Norsca.

    Hopefully they launch with the big map at most a week after game release.

    First DLC will be Nagash and Neferata, second a lord pack, then a race pack then another lord pack etc. Might start with a cross game lord pack earlier this time.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 3,443

    I think the pre order race will be Dogs of War. Along with a Wood Elf rework for Mortal Empires. Then the 4 core races will be Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarves, Daemons and Kislev. Alongside will be the Chaos rework for Beastmen, Warriors and Norsca.

    Hopefully they launch with the big map at most a week after game release.

    First DLC will be Nagash and Neferata, second a lord pack, then a race pack then another lord pack etc. Might start with a cross game lord pack earlier this time.

    What if the pre-order for WH2 is a lord pack or is something other than DoW? Because if that happens my personal suspicion would be that they're saving DoW, as one of the last army book races, for WH3.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 188
    People's refusal to see monos as possible never mind the most likely outcome will forever baffle me.

    We literally know for a fact it was the original plan. Plans change but that fact alone make it the most likely situation.

    No one will change their minds though so largely this discussion is pointless. I'll just be ready to post the thread up calling you all out when it's released.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 3,578
    edited November 2019

    People's refusal to see monos as possible never mind the most likely outcome will forever baffle me.

    We literally know for a fact it was the original plan. Plans change but that fact alone make it the most likely situation.

    No one will change their minds though so largely this discussion is pointless. I'll just be ready to post the thread up calling you all out when it's released.

    We literally know for a fact that the original plan has been proven outdated and incorrect on current game development (edit, din't you notice that big releases following game 1 on datamine were titled "expansion 1 and 2" with Skaven being listed as DLC?), as well as the fact CA has explicitly stated that they will be focussing on armybooks, which means Monos will not be cores.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 7,467
    The only thing we know is that we don't know. Something being less or more likely is only so from the outside looking in. There is no peeping through the looking glass. Because it is an ever changing kaleidoscope.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • AurawallAurawall Registered Users Posts: 327
    1

    People's refusal to see monos as possible never mind the most likely outcome will forever baffle me.

    We literally know for a fact it was the original plan. Plans change but that fact alone make it the most likely situation.

    No one will change their minds though so largely this discussion is pointless. I'll just be ready to post the thread up calling you all out when it's released.

    It is less about "monos aren't possible" and more "how do you implement it?"

    With the offical faction/races left, there is practically only one very profitable option for monos in 3.

    I'm sure CA had a meeting with GW about what factions they could used for TWW3 and they choose one of the option likely to sell most that GW allowed. Really GW controls what the 4th race ends up being.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,093
    Nagash would be a terrible inclusion.

    That'd be like making Sigmar playable.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 3,578
    Itharus said:

    Nagash would be a terrible inclusion.

    That'd be like making Sigmar playable.

    Why? He is confirmed to be "alive" in CA's timeline by the Arkhan epilogue. Mortarchs have been mentioned a few times (and Arkhan's ET model use) might hint that CA is preparing to draw from ET stuff to some extent. If this is about power level I see no issue as we have Mazdmundi, who is at least Nagash's equal in magic, probably far superior unless Nagash is doing a specific ritual after huffing a few tons of warpstone - though this does depend on if CA is going full ET and feeding him a couple of gods.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,005
    edited November 2019
    Plus, Nagash is probably actually one of the Lords which has the most justification for starting out weak (immediately post-resurrection, without being powered up by semidivine sacrifices like he was in the End Times) and building up to become godlike.

    In the context of this thread, I'm sceptical of the "Legions of Nagash as a race" concept, since that wouldn't be much more than a remixing of units from existing factions, but there's nothing about Nagash specifically that would disqualify him from being a LL when we already have the likes of Malekith and Mazdamundi starting at level 1 despite having been masters of their respective arts for thousands of years.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 7,467
    Itharus said:

    Nagash would be a terrible inclusion.

    That'd be like making Sigmar playable.

    I briefly contemplated flagging for abuse such is the levels of being aghast that I felt as I read this!

    But yeah, it’s nae the same. Especially given that as far as I am aware Sigmar never had rules and was always more of a distant legend than anything. Nagash is the main man when it comes to sequels.

    Including Sigmar himself would be killing the mystery. But Nagash? He is the Comeback King. There’s no mystery left.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 3,578
    Draxynnic said:

    Plus, Nagash is probably actually one of the Lords which has the most justification for starting out weak (immediately post-resurrection, without being powered up by semidivine sacrifices like he was in the End Times) and building up to become godlike.

    In the context of this thread, I'm sceptical of the "Legions of Nagash as a race" concept, since that wouldn't be much more than a remixing of units from existing factions, but there's nothing about Nagash specifically that would disqualify him from being a LL when we already have the likes of Malekith and Mazdamundi starting at level 1 despite having been masters of their respective arts for thousands of years.

    Yeah, I mean the fact that the Arkhan Epilogue says he's about alone suggests that he is in a weakened state at the game's current point, after all the first person who would likely know when Nagash regains even a decent amount of his power is Arkhan.
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