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Skarsnik is an example of what happens when foot lord has 100% knockdown immunity

WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Posts: 729Registered Users
I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

There are pros and cons.

But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

Comments

  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,483Registered Users

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    In all fairness, it is Skarsnik and Gobbla with combined statistics.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • OrkLadsOrkLads Posts: 1,455Registered Users
    Nah, Skarsnik's stockiness is justified for him due to Gobbla but don't need it to be done across the board. I suspect it was only done for him due to the difficulties of animating Skarsnik and Gobbla receiving collision attacks simultaneously and how odd that would look.

    Footlords become competitive picks will be solved through:

    - Adding utility to them where needed (especially ones without mounts)
    - Reducing their cost to reflect their real value
    - Mount/foot price swaps.

    As others have stated, juicing up stats too hard would also make them obnoxious if pushed too far.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 4,491Registered Users
    Thorgrim as well is totally viable (both in combat and in his long-ish range abilities).

    That said, I don't think you need 100% knockdown immunity to be viable, though perhaps it would be a decent solution since it's so simple.
  • OrkLadsOrkLads Posts: 1,455Registered Users
    eumaies said:

    Thorgrim as well is totally viable (both in combat and in his long-ish range abilities).

    That said, I don't think you need 100% knockdown immunity to be viable, though perhaps it would be a decent solution since it's so simple.

    Yea, gotta say having Thorgrim become a good pick in some circumstances has been one of the best recent adjustments CA have made.

    At a future point would be awesome to see the Anvil of Doom that the Runelord has be given a new ability of some type. Even just a variation on Chain Lightning or Urannon's Thunderbolt would be pretty cool.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 428Registered Users
    100% KI should only apply to pure melee footlords IMO, like Queek or Gor-Rok/Nakai. Don't really want Skrolk or Teclis to be unable to fall over if caught by cavalry as they are fine lords already and that would be a huge buff to them.

    Throwing it out there as well, how would this community feel if EVERY LL and Generic Lord had access to a special item/talismen that was able to grant 100% Knockdown immunity for a cost, say 50-150g, so they can have the buff, but with a cost?
  • ystyst Posts: 6,190Registered Users
    80% knock immunity for all foots.
    100% immunity vs anything with mass say below 2000

    There should NEVER be a 100% knockback when charged by or hit by a dragon, giants that sort of thing.
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  • rymeintrinsecarymeintrinseca Posts: 592Registered Users
    OrkLads said:

    eumaies said:

    Thorgrim as well is totally viable (both in combat and in his long-ish range abilities).

    That said, I don't think you need 100% knockdown immunity to be viable, though perhaps it would be a decent solution since it's so simple.

    At a future point would be awesome to see the Anvil of Doom that the Runelord has be given a new ability of some type. Even just a variation on Chain Lightning or Urannon's Thunderbolt would be pretty cool.
    It's pretty pathetic how little utility it has compared to skaven bells and furnaces.

    On the other hand maybe it's a good thing to have some cases where the footlord is preferable to the big mount.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,275Registered Users

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 3,775Registered Users

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
    This is literally the worst suggestion I have ever seen on these boards. You don't design multiplayer games so that the optimal way to play is to not interact with the game and do nothing. Good show!
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 5,255Registered Users

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
    This is literally the worst suggestion I have ever seen on these boards. You don't design multiplayer games so that the optimal way to play is to not interact with the game and do nothing. Good show!
    you should bring another footlord to counter it, haven't you heard? If you're one of those factions with weak ones such as Wood Elves or Empire unlucky :)
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,275Registered Users

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
    This is literally the worst suggestion I have ever seen on these boards. You don't design multiplayer games so that the optimal way to play is to not interact with the game and do nothing. Good show!
    LoL, endless cycle-charging abuse ensured those lords would. Do. Nothing. With this they could actually be an active factor even in the lategame.

    I know you don't want to come out of your comfort zone and learn to use different builds and stratgies, but this is, as you said, a multiplayer game, which means it should appeal to people who aren't you as well.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 3,775Registered Users

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
    This is literally the worst suggestion I have ever seen on these boards. You don't design multiplayer games so that the optimal way to play is to not interact with the game and do nothing. Good show!
    LoL, endless cycle-charging abuse ensured those lords would. Do. Nothing. With this they could actually be an active factor even in the lategame.

    I know you don't want to come out of your comfort zone and learn to use different builds and stratgies, but this is, as you said, a multiplayer game, which means it should appeal to people who aren't you as well.
    No what I want is less of this stupidity. 360 charge defense is utterly stupid.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,275Registered Users

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
    This is literally the worst suggestion I have ever seen on these boards. You don't design multiplayer games so that the optimal way to play is to not interact with the game and do nothing. Good show!
    LoL, endless cycle-charging abuse ensured those lords would. Do. Nothing. With this they could actually be an active factor even in the lategame.

    I know you don't want to come out of your comfort zone and learn to use different builds and stratgies, but this is, as you said, a multiplayer game, which means it should appeal to people who aren't you as well.
    No what I want is less of this stupidity. 360 charge defense is utterly stupid.
    That's not much of a counter-argument pal.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 3,775Registered Users

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
    This is literally the worst suggestion I have ever seen on these boards. You don't design multiplayer games so that the optimal way to play is to not interact with the game and do nothing. Good show!
    LoL, endless cycle-charging abuse ensured those lords would. Do. Nothing. With this they could actually be an active factor even in the lategame.

    I know you don't want to come out of your comfort zone and learn to use different builds and stratgies, but this is, as you said, a multiplayer game, which means it should appeal to people who aren't you as well.
    No what I want is less of this stupidity. 360 charge defense is utterly stupid.
    That's not much of a counter-argument pal.
    That's all I have to say to you.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,275Registered Users

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
    This is literally the worst suggestion I have ever seen on these boards. You don't design multiplayer games so that the optimal way to play is to not interact with the game and do nothing. Good show!
    LoL, endless cycle-charging abuse ensured those lords would. Do. Nothing. With this they could actually be an active factor even in the lategame.

    I know you don't want to come out of your comfort zone and learn to use different builds and stratgies, but this is, as you said, a multiplayer game, which means it should appeal to people who aren't you as well.
    No what I want is less of this stupidity. 360 charge defense is utterly stupid.
    That's not much of a counter-argument pal.
    That's all I have to say to you.
    So that means nothing's wrong about with the idea, other than you getting slightly agitated about it.

    So welcome your new unkickable foot-slogging melee overlords!
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 3,775Registered Users

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
    This is literally the worst suggestion I have ever seen on these boards. You don't design multiplayer games so that the optimal way to play is to not interact with the game and do nothing. Good show!
    LoL, endless cycle-charging abuse ensured those lords would. Do. Nothing. With this they could actually be an active factor even in the lategame.

    I know you don't want to come out of your comfort zone and learn to use different builds and stratgies, but this is, as you said, a multiplayer game, which means it should appeal to people who aren't you as well.
    No what I want is less of this stupidity. 360 charge defense is utterly stupid.
    That's not much of a counter-argument pal.
    That's all I have to say to you.
    So that means nothing's wrong about with the idea, other than you getting slightly agitated about it.

    So welcome your new unkickable foot-slogging melee overlords!
    Luckily I won't have to.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,275Registered Users
    edited November 14

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
    This is literally the worst suggestion I have ever seen on these boards. You don't design multiplayer games so that the optimal way to play is to not interact with the game and do nothing. Good show!
    LoL, endless cycle-charging abuse ensured those lords would. Do. Nothing. With this they could actually be an active factor even in the lategame.

    I know you don't want to come out of your comfort zone and learn to use different builds and stratgies, but this is, as you said, a multiplayer game, which means it should appeal to people who aren't you as well.
    No what I want is less of this stupidity. 360 charge defense is utterly stupid.
    That's not much of a counter-argument pal.
    That's all I have to say to you.
    So that means nothing's wrong about with the idea, other than you getting slightly agitated about it.

    So welcome your new unkickable foot-slogging melee overlords!
    Luckily I won't have to.
    Healing was nerfed.

    Summoning was nerfed.

    Spam builds were nerfed.

    Comment removed.
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 428Registered Users
    Lol, this thread went off the rails real quick.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,275Registered Users

    I know the idea of giving 100% knockdown immunity to foot lords has been argued recently and quite vigorously in many threads.

    There are pros and cons.

    But here is a foot lord with this actual trait.

    So what does everyone think? Skarsnik is a decent lord choice, though I suspect that him being decent is down to his other traits (over 5k hp is unheard of on foot lord).

    So given this example, would it be a good idea to give this to other lords?

    100% knockdown immunity and 100% 360 degree charge defense for all melee foot lords.
    This is literally the worst suggestion I have ever seen on these boards. You don't design multiplayer games so that the optimal way to play is to not interact with the game and do nothing. Good show!
    LoL, endless cycle-charging abuse ensured those lords would. Do. Nothing. With this they could actually be an active factor even in the lategame.

    I know you don't want to come out of your comfort zone and learn to use different builds and stratgies, but this is, as you said, a multiplayer game, which means it should appeal to people who aren't you as well.
    No what I want is less of this stupidity. 360 charge defense is utterly stupid.
    That's not much of a counter-argument pal.
    That's all I have to say to you.
    So that means nothing's wrong about with the idea, other than you getting slightly agitated about it.

    So welcome your new unkickable foot-slogging melee overlords!
    Luckily I won't have to.
    Healing was nerfed.

    Summoning was nerfed.

    Spam builds were nerfed.

    You better don't count your chickens before they hatch, pal. Enough people are fed up with the fatty meta. CA will take notice.
    The difference is that all these were good ideas.
    As is making foot lords no longer playthings for high mass abuse.

    Lots of people are fed up with the high mass abuse BS.

    You better already go and look for new builds and strategies. Your endless cycle charging fest will come to an end.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,190Registered Users
    360 charge def wouldnt change crap. Uve to be frikking braindead standing still for it to work. I mean good for afk players thats about it lol.........
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  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,766Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Posts with derogatory and inappropriate remarks about other members have been removed or edited, anlong with an off topic side conversation.

    Discuss the thread topic, not each other.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • mightygloinmightygloin Posts: 1,449Registered Users
    Skarsnik is a good example on how to make fighty footlords do their work and there is not a single obnoxious thing about him. Recipe is simple: Proper stats and health + removal of ragdoll OR massive utility like Noctilus.

    Notable LL's like Grimgor and Ungrim who were supposed to be way better fighters than S&G have had petty 3.8k HP and 35 MD for years. Combine that with constant ragdolling and there is no wonder they are still a meme. Proper sign that this is mainly a SP game i'd say.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 428Registered Users

    Skarsnik is a good example on how to make fighty footlords do their work and there is not a single obnoxious thing about him. Recipe is simple: Proper stats and health + removal of ragdoll OR massive utility like Noctilus.

    Notable LL's like Grimgor and Ungrim who were supposed to be way better fighters than S&G have had petty 3.8k HP and 35 MD for years. Combine that with constant ragdolling and there is no wonder they are still a meme. Proper sign that this is mainly a SP game i'd say.

    But multiplayer is the reason units are nerfed. Why would they bother nerfing Kroak or Ancient Salamander if it was single player focuesd? Kroak was fine in Campaign, but an issue in Multiplayer and Ancient Salamander was really unique, until it was flayed alive for multiplayer reasons. Also Kroxigors were always terrible until recently were they are now OK in campaign, but pretty good in Multiplayer.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 428Registered Users
    dge1 said:

    Posts with derogatory and inappropriate remarks about other members have been removed or edited, anlong with an off topic side conversation.

    Discuss the thread topic, not each other.

    I am sorry friend. Can't disrespect a fellow Harlan Ellison fan.
  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Posts: 229Registered Users
    They don't need or deserve such an immunity. Higher than current yes. But not that high.

    I actually feel the problem comes partly from mounted characters gaining hp

    Unless they are on a monster they shouldn't gain hp when mounted.

    Speed yes, armour adjustments (up and down) yes but a horse/ cold one/ unicorn /Wolf/boar no.

    MD should also be looked at carefully but this is tied in with hitbox size so is a tricky one to address.

    Animations are a crucial factor but very difficult to resolve from an aesthetic standpoint and I fully understand DEV resistance.to removing awesome animations

    Possibly remove the worst offending amimations from MP? But again I'm not sure of the complexity of this. The juice is probably not worth the squeeze.

    It would probably be easier to raise the mass of inf units instead.

  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 3,775Registered Users
    I Think they could easily change how frequently the animations trigger. That would mitigate their impact without requiring any big rework I assume, and the animations would still be there to watch, just less dominating.
  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Posts: 229Registered Users
    That's probably the most practical solution to the animation problem you are right
  • another505another505 Posts: 1,083Registered Users
    How is cav mounted lords/hero a problem that warrants health nerf?

    Monster animation for some needs to be tone down. I wonder if ca could set those huge leap animation like sphinx for example, to occur less
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,919Registered Users
    Long overdue fix
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
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