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Anybody Else Worried About Warp Grinders?

glosskilosglosskilos Posts: 1,176Registered Users
They have a bound net and an aoe damage ability. Is the net unlimited use? I don’t see how skaven aren’t going to be broken after this, with all the firepower they already have.
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  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 8,085Registered Users

    They have a bound net and an aoe damage ability. Is the net unlimited use? I don’t see how skaven aren’t going to be broken after this, with all the firepower they already have.

    Well skaven needed more slows and nets...

    But actually not to worried about them, they are at least nto a ranged unit, and theres only so much you can fit into skaven army if you want all the toys, i can see one being taken but if you take those and rattlings and jezzaisl you leave yourself open to other strategies, i think it gives skaven more options and makes them less predictable, the only problem is skaven were already tier 1 faction, hopefully some other stuff got balanced out to allow room for new units not to break skaven again.
  • VistahmVistahm Posts: 250Registered Users
    Saven are going to be OP as **** as soon as this dlc gets released.

    I mean as others have pointed out in another thread the amount of slows skaven have access to is reaching a critical level of absurdity, and is completly ridiculous.

    Devs are actively trying to make chariots and cav useless vs skaven which is pure ****.

    Now the only way to go is probably going to be spamming infantery that excels at chaff cleaning, but oh surprise skaven has ton of ways to punish that type of units , and now they even have a sort of an artilley piece that destroy units in two volleys in pure queen Bess style.

    it looks really grim.
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  • Hanzo11Hanzo11 Posts: 38Registered Users
    I could be totally wrong but I thought each unit of warp grinders only got 2 uses of that ability, but even if that's the case bringing 2 units would result in 4 uses which is substantial. If the army can capitalize on a target once it's used that is 4 units that are taken out without expending any WOM.
  • yukishiro1yukishiro1 Member Posts: 507Registered Users
    Gotta sell the new DLC, so it'll be completely overpowered for a month then it'll get nerfed, as is the usual CA pattern.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 516Registered Users

    Gotta sell the new DLC, so it'll be completely overpowered for a month then it'll get nerfed, as is the usual CA pattern.

    The real question is how hard will the nerf be? Will it be Jezzail levels of still best Rat unit, or DoomFlayer levels of pretty good or Ratling Gun levels of ok I guess, or the non-nerfed levels of Ark of Sotek abysmal.
  • tank3487tank3487 Member Posts: 1,400Registered Users

    Gotta sell the new DLC, so it'll be completely overpowered for a month then it'll get nerfed, as is the usual CA pattern.

    For CA defence. It is quite hard to make unit balanced without extensive feedback and statistics.
    And new toys being UP from the start are worse than being slightly above balanced.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 3,889Registered Users
    The opposite, slightly up is better because it doesn't ruin anything for the 14 other factions... Much rather start careful then buff than crapping all over balance and repair the game in two next patches.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,407Registered Users
    Lol pls, like trash guards remaining pure garbage after 2 yrs? How long did it take for giant slayers to even be remotely usable.

    Trash units r a massive waste of time, hand cannons, bombers, dread saurian all bad units that waste resources balancing. And still is bad lol
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  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Posts: 1,477Registered Users
    Shouldn't the poison wind mortar be a bigger issue, I mean holy **** does that thing get its value in cost. The only thing I will say is that it could be a unit that is very prone to a good cannon, but not all armies have something like that and it is going to be a nightmare for the lizardmen and greenskins.

    Warp grinders are tricky to judge anyway, they will get destroyed by any cavalry which can hold itself in combat. At best they might be able to beat orc boar big'uns and empire knights, but given their low leadership and model count that is not a guarantee. Sure a warpgrinder can slow things down, but they still need a follow up unit. At least with the ninja rats they are a little more multi-purpose.

    Anyway as @Lotus_Moon sort of stated, investing say two warpgrinders for 1200 gold to protect both flanks of your army is still an investment that can leave Skaven vulnerable to other strategies like fast warbeasts/infantry attacking from the flanks or decent infantry to use once the front ranks are broken.

    What I will say is that Skaven are becoming very unpredictable like the Empire, the H&B DLC didn't really change the lizardmen playstyle as far as I am concerned, and its going to get worse if we are supposedly getting clan Moulder content too. Then again who knows if say the same unpredictability will occur when we see how the new toys for the dark elves work, let alone an update for the high elves, greenskins, dwarfs and vampire counts to come some time in the future.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 8,085Registered Users
    Yeah the biggest worry is that skaven become a massive build roulette faction to play against due to how many viable options they have, though im sure some of the new toys will be tad too strong also, but at least not markus level at first glance.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,407Registered Users

    At best they might be able to beat orc boar big'uns and empire knights

    U gotta be joking. No way in hell they can even beat miners which r undoubtedly the worst melee chaff in power. And u think they can beat emp knights or boars?

    Even if they function like monster inf, trolls and such, they have less than 30% of their hp. Not with that trash 20 ish att
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  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Posts: 1,477Registered Users
    yst said:



    U gotta be joking. No way in hell they can even beat miners which r undoubtedly the worst melee chaff in power. And u think they can beat emp knights or boars?

    I am going by the assumption that due to the warp grinders abilities, the cavalry will not be able get their charge off and so we have a focus on sustained melee combat. Not to mention they can't really be compared with miners, as warp-grinders will do massive armour-piercing damage on each landed attack, at the very least two landed attacks will kill off a knight. Like I said earlier though, playtesting might show the empire knights winning anyway.
  • KurnothHunterKurnothHunter Posts: 249Registered Users
    edited November 2019
    at this point deleting skavens can be easier than balancing them

    multiple slows/nets, longest range skirmishers, lots of skirmishing units and chaff/ratogres to give even more time for rats to shoot enemy

    foot lords against skaven will be non-existant thing

    and people were crying about WE having nets on waystalkers

    pathetic

    guess we'll have to wait for DLC

    hope DE will get at least something good for MP

  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 516Registered Users
    yst said:

    Lol pls, like trash guards remaining pure garbage after 2 yrs? How long did it take for giant slayers to even be remotely usable.

    Trash units r a massive waste of time, hand cannons, bombers, dread saurian all bad units that waste resources balancing. And still is bad lol

    Temple Guard are great. What are you on about?
  • ystyst Posts: 6,407Registered Users
    edited November 2019
    Not sure why u bring temple guards up, no one here even mentions them
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  • Green0Green0 Posts: 5,473Registered Users

    yst said:

    Lol pls, like trash guards remaining pure garbage after 2 yrs? How long did it take for giant slayers to even be remotely usable.

    Trash units r a massive waste of time, hand cannons, bombers, dread saurian all bad units that waste resources balancing. And still is bad lol

    Temple Guard are great. What are you on about?
    aaah you fell to the mysterious gibberish yst pulls off sometimes.. we’ve all been there. After a while you can decipher what he says, “trash guards” = Depth Guard in this case.

    Understandable mistake.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 516Registered Users
    edited November 2019
    Lol pls, like trash guards remaining pure garbage after 2 yrs?

    This.

    Edit - Lol I dumb
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 516Registered Users
    Green0 said:

    yst said:

    Lol pls, like trash guards remaining pure garbage after 2 yrs? How long did it take for giant slayers to even be remotely usable.

    Trash units r a massive waste of time, hand cannons, bombers, dread saurian all bad units that waste resources balancing. And still is bad lol

    Temple Guard are great. What are you on about?
    aaah you fell to the mysterious gibberish yst pulls off sometimes.. we’ve all been there. After a while you can decipher what he says, “trash guards” = Depth Guard in this case.

    Understandable mistake.
    Lol, he fooled me. I kinda forgot Depth Guard were a unit in the first place TBH. I know yst has some strange opinions so jumped the gun.

    GG yst.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,407Registered Users
    They r a real unit lol, u can find them on voast roster
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  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 516Registered Users
    yst said:

    They r a real unit lol, u can find them on voast roster

    But are they real if they are never seen by anyone ever? thinking Emoji
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 8,085Registered Users
    I wouldn't call it strange option just unaducated and based on personal bias.
  • WitchbladeWitchblade Posts: 443Registered Users
    No unit should have an AoE slow and an AoE net in my view, but since it's cast on the unit itself, it may not be problematic in this case. Still, I strongly dislike the abilities. I would prefer if the damage ability had a (short) range and the net was a 50% slow. True nets have so far in this game always led to problems.
  • yukishiro1yukishiro1 Member Posts: 507Registered Users
    edited November 2019
    tank3487 said:

    Gotta sell the new DLC, so it'll be completely overpowered for a month then it'll get nerfed, as is the usual CA pattern.

    For CA defence. It is quite hard to make unit balanced without extensive feedback and statistics.
    And new toys being UP from the start are worse than being slightly above balanced.
    No, DLC units being overpowered is much worse than being underpowered. Adding new, underpowered units has no impact on game balance since by definition they're new and worse than what is aleady there. Adding new, overpowered units - especially only to those who pay RL $ for them - completely upends the game balance and forces people to shell out money to stay competitive.

    Forces people to shell out money to stay competitive...oh wait...hmm....
  • GriffithxiGriffithxi Posts: 556Registered Users

    tank3487 said:

    Gotta sell the new DLC, so it'll be completely overpowered for a month then it'll get nerfed, as is the usual CA pattern.

    For CA defence. It is quite hard to make unit balanced without extensive feedback and statistics.
    And new toys being UP from the start are worse than being slightly above balanced.
    No, DLC units being overpowered is much worse than being underpowered. Adding new, underpowered units has no impact on game balance since by definition they're new and worse than what is aleady there. Adding new, overpowered units - especially only to those who pay RL $ for them - completely upends the game balance and forces people to shell out money to stay competitive.

    Forces people to shell out money to stay competitive...oh wait...hmm....
    New UP units is worse because people simply ignore the unit like it doesn't exist and the devs get little to no feedback on it.
    So now developer time has been wasted and it's as if no content was added.

    New OP unit get lots of use and lots of feedback and come into balance waaaay quicker than UP units and dev time actually results in new interesting content that gets used.

    Unused units can potentially stay broken/up indefinitely.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,407Registered Users
    ^ theres a lot of ppl who simply just dont care about balance. Happy to up ramp their own faction to the skies and down ramp factions they dont like to no ends.

    Completely and utterly useless units like garbage of sotek, engine of gods, underperforming razordon those units will take years to even be viable. And those air units, rippers, fire bolas etc will continue to collect dusts for years to come. Thats just ONE faction.
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  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 8,085Registered Users

    tank3487 said:

    Gotta sell the new DLC, so it'll be completely overpowered for a month then it'll get nerfed, as is the usual CA pattern.

    For CA defence. It is quite hard to make unit balanced without extensive feedback and statistics.
    And new toys being UP from the start are worse than being slightly above balanced.
    No, DLC units being overpowered is much worse than being underpowered. Adding new, underpowered units has no impact on game balance since by definition they're new and worse than what is aleady there. Adding new, overpowered units - especially only to those who pay RL $ for them - completely upends the game balance and forces people to shell out money to stay competitive.

    Forces people to shell out money to stay competitive...oh wait...hmm....
    New UP units is worse because people simply ignore the unit like it doesn't exist and the devs get little to no feedback on it.
    So now developer time has been wasted and it's as if no content was added.

    New OP unit get lots of use and lots of feedback and come into balance waaaay quicker than UP units and dev time actually results in new interesting content that gets used.

    Unused units can potentially stay broken/up indefinitely.
    nah OP stuff is worse than UP for sure.
  • Lt_HargroveLt_Hargrove Posts: 445Registered Users
    For 600, you get an autonomous Tormentor Sword + locally cast Mystifying Miasma. The unit itself is hot trash, especially in the LD department (45), but given how there are Gutter Runners and Ratling Guns in the roster and how the new lore of magic has a slow spell and mapwide half-poison attribute, Skaven might attain VP levels of cavalry denial power. I feel like they might be an unneeded unit that breaks the matchup against Brets.
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  • Cadia101Cadia101 Posts: 281Registered Users

    For 600, you get an autonomous Tormentor Sword + locally cast Mystifying Miasma. The unit itself is hot trash, especially in the LD department (45), but given how there are Gutter Runners and Ratling Guns in the roster and how the new lore of magic has a slow spell and mapwide half-poison attribute, Skaven might attain VP levels of cavalry denial power. I feel like they might be an unneeded unit that breaks the matchup against Brets.

    That’s kind of why some people ask for more Bretonnia units.
    They are a bit to one dimensional and glass canon.
  • CirdanCirdan Posts: 594Registered Users

    tank3487 said:

    Gotta sell the new DLC, so it'll be completely overpowered for a month then it'll get nerfed, as is the usual CA pattern.

    For CA defence. It is quite hard to make unit balanced without extensive feedback and statistics.
    And new toys being UP from the start are worse than being slightly above balanced.
    No, DLC units being overpowered is much worse than being underpowered. Adding new, underpowered units has no impact on game balance since by definition they're new and worse than what is aleady there. Adding new, overpowered units - especially only to those who pay RL $ for them - completely upends the game balance and forces people to shell out money to stay competitive.

    Forces people to shell out money to stay competitive...oh wait...hmm....
    New UP units is worse because people simply ignore the unit like it doesn't exist and the devs get little to no feedback on it.
    So now developer time has been wasted and it's as if no content was added.

    New OP unit get lots of use and lots of feedback and come into balance waaaay quicker than UP units and dev time actually results in new interesting content that gets used.

    Unused units can potentially stay broken/up indefinitely.
    nah OP stuff is worse than UP for sure.
    Totally agree. At least UP stuff isn't gamebreaking, which OP stuff can be.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,787Registered Users
    Cirdan said:

    tank3487 said:

    Gotta sell the new DLC, so it'll be completely overpowered for a month then it'll get nerfed, as is the usual CA pattern.

    For CA defence. It is quite hard to make unit balanced without extensive feedback and statistics.
    And new toys being UP from the start are worse than being slightly above balanced.
    No, DLC units being overpowered is much worse than being underpowered. Adding new, underpowered units has no impact on game balance since by definition they're new and worse than what is aleady there. Adding new, overpowered units - especially only to those who pay RL $ for them - completely upends the game balance and forces people to shell out money to stay competitive.

    Forces people to shell out money to stay competitive...oh wait...hmm....
    New UP units is worse because people simply ignore the unit like it doesn't exist and the devs get little to no feedback on it.
    So now developer time has been wasted and it's as if no content was added.

    New OP unit get lots of use and lots of feedback and come into balance waaaay quicker than UP units and dev time actually results in new interesting content that gets used.

    Unused units can potentially stay broken/up indefinitely.
    nah OP stuff is worse than UP for sure.
    Totally agree. At least UP stuff isn't gamebreaking, which OP stuff can be.
    UP stuff means a unit gets never used and probably even ignored after buffs, hurting the overally variety of the game.

    Sorry, but UP is worse longterm.

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