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Women in TW: Warhammer

DarizukaDarizuka Junior MemberPosts: 627Registered Users
alright.

since quite alot of people have a radicalized opinion on for and against.
before we start calling names and give random titles to others.

i think the people who are protesting female units are simply just protesting that they worry the female leader added would be done in an half-arsed way.

and they for the most part genuinely hope that it would be done with finesse and flair in its implementation.


i mean yes alot of these people would yell out the adding of further male characters in opposition to female legendary lords. but once you analyze most of their remarks.

they are just doing it simply because the female units being implemented arent as interesting as the male named characters.

i mean lets face it.
reality wise.

if CA presented Repanse in the levels of Hellebron or Alarielle or Isabella in depth and detailed models... people would be cheering it on.

but their fears are always in related to how Tretch was implemented.
and why in such topics Tretch is thrown in the chat atleast 50x

...

but yah.

i do wish CA add more female LL and not half-assed-ish in their addition cos lets face it.
Quality FLC will boost sales.
halfassed FLC will make ppl roll their eyes.

think of it as an Investment.

...that being said.
CA should of atleast added

Ariel
Neferata
Elseph Von Draken

cos those 3 womens are ultra badasses.

heck. maybe even make a small faction or add a new unit for Volkmar the Grim's recruit chain of "Sisters of Sigmar" which are fantasy version of Sisters of Battle.

essentially Fantasy Nuns with big armor and hammers smashing the witch, the mutant, the heretic in the name of Sigmar.

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Comments

  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,407Registered Users
    edited December 2019
    I Think you're conflating all of the criticism as coming from the same people for similar reasons. Some people (Myself included) would like Repanse to get her banner and Henri to get his horse hat, but then some others are just mad that we didn't see Bohemond or Tancred first. Yet other people are annoyed because of the lore and some others just think Repanse is boring.

    There is Valid Criticism, but its not all equal, not all from the same place and some of it is just the usual "but muh Thanquol" kinda complaints.
  • DarizukaDarizuka Junior Member Posts: 627Registered Users
    Seldkam said:

    Can we just... close this thread please lol

    I want my Sisters of Sigmar.

    or Amazoness army

  • DarizukaDarizuka Junior Member Posts: 627Registered Users

    I Think you're conflating all of the criticism as coming from the same people for similar reasons. Some people (Myself included) would like Repanse to get her banner and Henri to get his horse hat, but then some others are just mad that we didn't see Bohemond or Tancred first. Yet other people are annoyed because of the lore and some others just think Repanse is boring.

    There is Valid Criticism, but its not all equal, not all from the same place and some of it is just the usual "but muh Thanquol" kinda complaints.

    but muh Boris Todbringer
    but muh Marius Leitdorf
  • Warlord_Lu_BuWarlord_Lu_Bu Posts: 2,167Registered Users
    edited December 2019
    I want Jasmine

    For Araby

    :) A :) R :) A :) B :) Y :)





    Post edited by Canuovea on
    "I am the punishment of Tengri, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chenghis Khan Temujin
  • BardicInquisitionBardicInquisition Posts: 1,099Registered Users
    edited December 2019
    The game needs to be graced by the presence of the lass Daisy Kurt von Helboring II.
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 2,258Registered Users
    edited December 2019
    I never forget this guy wanted Names removed from the game, because some Nazi persons in history had the same names, I didnt even read his text because its probably full of manure.

    Edit: I think he also made a thread warning people of the evil name Heinrich Kemmler and that it better be changed, correct me if Im wrong.
  • FenristhegreatFenristhegreat Member Posts: 408Registered Users

    I Think you're conflating all of the criticism as coming from the same people for similar reasons. Some people (Myself included) would like Repanse to get her banner and Henri to get his horse hat, but then some others are just mad that we didn't see Bohemond or Tancred first. Yet other people are annoyed because of the lore and some others just think Repanse is boring.

    There is Valid Criticism, but its not all equal, not all from the same place and some of it is just the usual "but muh Thanquol" kinda complaints.

    Spot on.

    I reject Repanse's inclusion because its lore breaking, but I've nothing against the character, indeed I rather like the Joan of Arc trope.

    I genuinely feel that not a single individual on this forum takes issue with the idea of 'women in warhammer'. It's only a matter of when, where and how.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,407Registered Users
    edited December 2019
    @Fenristhegreat

    "I genuinely feel that not a single individual on this forum takes issue with the idea of 'women in warhammer'"

    I kind of disagree, there are some, but I think that the vast majority aren't like that.
  • FenristhegreatFenristhegreat Member Posts: 408Registered Users

    @Fenristhegreat

    "I genuinely feel that not a single individual on this forum takes issue with the idea of 'women in warhammer'"

    I kind of disagree, there are some, but I think that the vast majority aren't like that.

    Oh, well, that's disappointing to hear.

    I must say though I struggle to see how they could oppose women featuring in Warhammer when they have had such a presence for so long (regardless of whether one approves of the manner in which they are included - witch elves or harpies and the like).

    It feels like to oppose women in Warhammer is to oppose the Warhammer universe itself. Then again, I suppose that's the lore purist in me :S
  • KirkwaldKirkwald Posts: 713Registered Users
    I just want them implemented properly. I'm still sore over Hellebron, Aranessa and now I think I'm going to be disappointed with Repanse. It was already bad enough that Morathi's implementation was also very poor (she invented Dhar and yet her skill kit absolutely sucks what the hell CA).

    The last female LL that I was satisfied with was Khalida, and it just so happens that Tomb Kings was one of the best DLCs ever. Ever since then, CA has been fumbling their female LLs.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,407Registered Users
    @Fenristhegreat

    Its not always about 'not wanting any woman in warhammer' some people are ok with it, but take issue with woman who aren't little fairy princesses. Because they assume the inclusion is agenda based or because they simply don't like woman who aren't stereotypical.

    Sometimes people assume that the race doesn't allow woman to fight (Norsca and the Empire) so they take issue with it based on presumed lore because of the time period or their own preconceptions.
  • FenristhegreatFenristhegreat Member Posts: 408Registered Users

    @Fenristhegreat

    Its not always about 'not wanting any woman in warhammer' some people are ok with it, but take issue with woman who aren't little fairy princesses. Because they assume the inclusion is agenda based or because they simply don't like woman who aren't stereotypical.

    Sometimes people assume that the race doesn't allow woman to fight (Norsca and the Empire) so they take issue with it based on presumed lore because of the time period or their own preconceptions.

    Ah, well I may fall into that second category myself. As I understand it the empire don't have women serving in the military. On the Norscan issue I could see more latitude - Valkia was Norscan.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,407Registered Users
    @Fenristhegreat

    True, but in lore examples like Elsbeth von Draken and the Sisters of Sigmar both exist and are hated and under great suspicion precisely because the Empire is against that sort of thing, so these examples still fit within the lore of the faction.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 17,257Registered Users
    When something like "the character is dead" becomes an issue when we already have dead characters and when nobodies are declared overlooked fan favourites it's highly suspect.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • AzurianAzurian Posts: 997Registered Users
    Darizuka said:

    alright.

    since quite alot of people have a radicalized opinion on for and against.
    before we start calling names and give random titles to others.

    i think the people who are protesting female units are simply just protesting that they worry the female leader added would be done in an half-arsed way.

    and they for the most part genuinely hope that it would be done with finesse and flair in its implementation.


    i mean yes alot of these people would yell out the adding of further male characters in opposition to female legendary lords. but once you analyze most of their remarks.

    they are just doing it simply because the female units being implemented arent as interesting as the male named characters.

    i mean lets face it.
    reality wise.

    if CA presented Repanse in the levels of Hellebron or Alarielle or Isabella in depth and detailed models... people would be cheering it on.

    but their fears are always in related to how Tretch was implemented.
    and why in such topics Tretch is thrown in the chat atleast 50x

    ...

    but yah.

    i do wish CA add more female LL and not half-assed-ish in their addition cos lets face it.
    Quality FLC will boost sales.
    halfassed FLC will make ppl roll their eyes.

    think of it as an Investment.

    ...that being said.
    CA should of atleast added

    Ariel
    Neferata
    Elseph Von Draken

    cos those 3 womens are ultra badasses.

    heck. maybe even make a small faction or add a new unit for Volkmar the Grim's recruit chain of "Sisters of Sigmar" which are fantasy version of Sisters of Battle.

    essentially Fantasy Nuns with big armor and hammers smashing the witch, the mutant, the heretic in the name of Sigmar.

    This topic looks like brazenly fueling a debate on an inappropriate topic.

  • fireatwill4fireatwill4 Posts: 185Registered Users
    What about female greenskins? Female Lizardwomen? Can we have those too? You know, for inclusiveness.
  • PlatypusErosPlatypusEros Posts: 23Registered Users
    Greenskins are mushrooms. They are genderless.

    Lizardmen are bred in spawning pools. Fairly sure that they also lack gender.

    Though the new Chaos Warriors releasing next week include an option to give your chaos warriors female heads. :D
  • fireatwill4fireatwill4 Posts: 185Registered Users

    Greenskins are mushrooms. They are genderless.

    Lizardmen are bred in spawning pools. Fairly sure that they also lack gender.

    Though the new Chaos Warriors releasing next week include an option to give your chaos warriors female heads. :D

    Oh I'm fully aware, but since the timeline is gone, I don't see why not. We can all blame Slaanesh as a plausible explanation if comes down to it.
  • cat59cat59 Posts: 465Registered Users
    I mean, what reason would the Empire have to not let women join their military? Them not being stronger than the average man? The average man isn't stronger than an average orc, so strength isn't much of an issue when going up against most of your foes, who are either stronger regardless, more numerous (Zombies/skeletons) or even weaker/numerous (Goblins/Ungors/Skaven).

    Then you have Chaos and raiding parties, where you want everyone able to defend themselves, at least, so it's not a guaranteed slaughter. Cultists could be anyone as well, so I don't get why women couldn't be witch hunters or the like either. It's mainly got to do with GW's models, and them flipping between the grimdark realist setting, and fantasy setting, but doing it in a way that makes the empire look like 8-9/10 babies are born male, to keep up with their military losses, meanwhile factions like the elves tend to have much more mixed gender units.

    I personally don't think it's that most people don't want women in Warhammer, it's just that they want every man in Warhammer first, and then CA can start adding in some females.
  • cat59cat59 Posts: 465Registered Users

    Greenskins are mushrooms. They are genderless.

    Lizardmen are bred in spawning pools. Fairly sure that they also lack gender.

    Though the new Chaos Warriors releasing next week include an option to give your chaos warriors female heads. :D

    Greenskins are male. They have the parts, and they all identify as male, they just don't reproduce sexually.

    Lizardmen are sexless, but all of them that are sentient enough identify are male.

    Chaos Warriors? There was never anything saying a Chaos Warrior couldn't be a woman, besides people's preconceptions, and GW never making an explicitly female model.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Posts: 4,336Registered Users

    @Fenristhegreat

    True, but in lore examples like Elsbeth von Draken and the Sisters of Sigmar both exist and are hated and under great suspicion precisely because the Empire is against that sort of thing, so these examples still fit within the lore of the faction.

    I don't think anyone has even discussed Elsbeth or SoS seriously on the forum.
    cat59 said:

    Greenskins are mushrooms. They are genderless.

    Lizardmen are bred in spawning pools. Fairly sure that they also lack gender.

    Though the new Chaos Warriors releasing next week include an option to give your chaos warriors female heads. :D

    Greenskins are male. They have the parts, and they all identify as male, they just don't reproduce sexually.

    Lizardmen are sexless, but all of them that are sentient enough identify are male.

    Chaos Warriors? There was never anything saying a Chaos Warrior couldn't be a woman, besides people's preconceptions, and GW never making an explicitly female model.
    There are / have been female chaos warriors, anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Same with women who fight against chaos. Though it's rare to find women fighting in the Empire's armies, it's very common to see women fighting for Kislev for example.
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 13,488Registered Users, Moderators
    There have been women Chaos Warriors in the lore.

    Gotrek and Felix fought one who was, apparently, quite close to becoming a Daemon Prince.

    Norscans have had warrior women before too.

    That all being said, I'm going to be very carefully watching this discussion. I can already see it going in a direction that is really just not worth it. I'm not closing it right off, but short leash folks, very short.
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  • PlatypusErosPlatypusEros Posts: 23Registered Users
    Back when Warhammer Online was released, there were a ton of folks arguing that Chaos Warriors couldn't be female due to the lore. Similar to some folks opinions regarding TWW.

    Never seen any lore stating orcs have genitalia. Can't see it making much sense, given the spore reproduction thing. Would love to see your source on that. :) Only thing I can think of is Blood Bowl, where female greenskins do exist as cheerleaders, but Blood Bowl has always been off to the side when it comes to the lore.

    Only folks I've seen upset regarding Repanse are upset due to the timeline, rather than the gender.
  • KirkwaldKirkwald Posts: 713Registered Users
    edited December 2019
    Sisters of Sigmar present an issue with that would opened another can of worms like Repanse but can also be justified in a way. See, the Sisters of Sigmar were annihilated (or so they say) during the destruction of the city of the damned, Mordheim, and that was centuries ago. Right now Mordheim in the game is a ruin, which means this event has long passed. Considering the sisters have never appeared in any lore books or supplementary material since then, we can only assume the few survivors went into hiding or got absorbed back into society.

    In TW Warhammer's case, I can see the Sisters of Sigmar being an elite but limited unit. Would be silly if you can spam a lot of them, diminishing their rare status.
  • AbmongAbmong Posts: 1,193Registered Users
    edited December 2019
    I generally have no problems with female characters and units, I do question some of the design changes CA have made when translating TT units into the game...

    1) Why change the High Beastmaster from female to male? The TT female models looked fine.
    2) Why make melee Dread Lord female and Ranged male? It would've made more physical sense other way around.
    3) Why are Damsels so old looking? They are meant to be youthful, CA made them look older than Prophetesses...
    4) Why do Dark Elf sorceresses heads look too big for their bodies?
    5) Why give Repanse two handed sword when she would have looked better IMO with her one handed sword and shield?
    6) Why are there no female variants for Empire Wizards when it's perfectly loreful?
    7) Why are there no male variants for High Elf mages.
    8) Why are there no male variants for Wood Elf Spellsingers.
    9) Bloodwrack Medusas look too pretty, they are meant to be ugly with more monsterous faces.
    Post edited by Abmong on
    Total War: Warhammer IV - Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh (+ Lost Vampire Bloodlines, Hobgoblin Khanate DLC) :#
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,407Registered Users
    @Seldkam

    I Meant they are hated and under suspicion in the lore, by the Empire. I was trying to say that sure, the Empire is sexist but units/characters like Elsbeth and SoS are legit and their existence acknowledges the sexism of the empire.
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Posts: 3,267Registered Users
    Kislev has an entire tradition dedicated to female warriors, specifically their Ice Mages, and their society has long been matriarchal in nature. Far fewer male Tzars/rulers than female. The sword that Katarin wields, Fearfrost, can only be used by a woman. Valkia the Bloody is the representation of females fighting for chaos. All the elves have no preference for either gender. The Amazons, Elspeth, Repanse, and on and on and on and on.....

    Warhammer has plentiful examples of a wide range of females at war, there isn't a problem with representation. Literally no one I've seen has explicitly stated that bringing more females into TWW is the problem. This thread, apart from being absolutely eye bleeding to read, serves no purpose beyond lock bait. Just like the last thread about characters sharing a name with a Nazi. Pointless.
  • KirkwaldKirkwald Posts: 713Registered Users
    Abmong said:

    I generally have no problems with female characters and units, I do question some of the design changes CA have made when translating TT units into the game...

    1) Why change the High Beastmaster from female to male? The TT female models looked fine.
    2) Why make melee Dread Lord female and Ranged female? It would've made more physical sense other way around.
    3) Why are Damsels so old looking? They are meant to be youthful, CA made them look older than Prophetesses...
    4) Why do Dark Elf sorceresses heads look too big for their bodies?
    5) Why give Repanse two handed sword when she who have looked better IMO with her one handed sword and shield?
    6) Why are there no female variants for Empire Wizards when it's perfectly loreful?
    7) Why are there no male variants for High Elf mages.
    8) Why are there no male variants for Wood Elf Spellsingers.
    9) Bloodwrack Medusas look too pretty, they are meant to be ugly with more monsterous faces.

    You forgot something, waystalkers and waywatchers should also be a mixed unit of male and female. Disagreed with the medusas though. I like my lamias pretty.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 13,488Registered Users, Moderators
    I can answer one of those questions.

    High Elves: Male melee, female ranged.
    Dark Elves: Female melee, Male ranged.

    Seems they did it to add some diversity. Some mirroring.
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