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Women in TW: Warhammer

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  • TumbleTumble Registered Users Posts: 555
    I like that this thread is mostly focused on possible female variants for lords and other female characters in the lore rather than the pernicious sort of discussion regarding gender in the game. That said, I would much rather people just dropped the topic already.
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,666
    Tayvar said:

    I've always been very pro women in Warhammer. I'm still waiting for Ariel and the Sisters of Twilight to be added to the wood elves and I'll be vehemently upset if Araloth gets added before them. I'm pretty miffed we got people like Ghorst in before Neferata, especially since we now have Khalida without her primary adversary in the game.

    The thing with Araloth is that is would be much easier for CA to add him Model-Wise AKA Charlemagnes-Wise, and CA is yet to do DLCS or FLCs for an "DLCs Races", that makes Neferata more likely than Ariel and the Sisters of Twilight, because she is not a part of an "DLC Race".
    You really don't remember the Bone Giant do you? It's a FLC on the FLC list for the Tomb Kings a DLC race.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • KirkwaldKirkwald Registered Users Posts: 947
    Repanse is also a DLC for a DLC, because Bretonnia is a DLC (FLC)
  • Tr3izTr3iz Registered Users Posts: 88

    I Think you're conflating all of the criticism as coming from the same people for similar reasons. Some people (Myself included) would like Repanse to get her banner and Henri to get his horse hat, but then some others are just mad that we didn't see Bohemond or Tancred first. Yet other people are annoyed because of the lore and some others just think Repanse is boring.

    There is Valid Criticism, but its not all equal, not all from the same place and some of it is just the usual "but muh Thanquol" kinda complaints.

    Spot on.

    I reject Repanse's inclusion because its lore breaking, but I've nothing against the character, indeed I rather like the Joan of Arc trope.

    I genuinely feel that not a single individual on this forum takes issue with the idea of 'women in warhammer'. It's only a matter of when, where and how.
    Cylostra Direfin would like to have a word with you about the vampirates launch. There definitely is a group of people with no other purpose than to complain about non-issues.
  • KirkwaldKirkwald Registered Users Posts: 947
    Tr3iz said:

    I Think you're conflating all of the criticism as coming from the same people for similar reasons. Some people (Myself included) would like Repanse to get her banner and Henri to get his horse hat, but then some others are just mad that we didn't see Bohemond or Tancred first. Yet other people are annoyed because of the lore and some others just think Repanse is boring.

    There is Valid Criticism, but its not all equal, not all from the same place and some of it is just the usual "but muh Thanquol" kinda complaints.

    Spot on.

    I reject Repanse's inclusion because its lore breaking, but I've nothing against the character, indeed I rather like the Joan of Arc trope.

    I genuinely feel that not a single individual on this forum takes issue with the idea of 'women in warhammer'. It's only a matter of when, where and how.
    Cylostra Direfin would like to have a word with you about the vampirates launch. There definitely is a group of people with no other purpose than to complain about non-issues.
    Maybe because Clyostra was an OC character and everyone who cares about the lore had every right to complain?
    Seriously CA, please no more OC LLs. The last thing I want is a "good" skaven.
  • jgmasterjgmaster Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 613
    Darizuka said:

    alright.

    since quite alot of people have a radicalized opinion on for and against.
    before we start calling names and give random titles to others.

    i think the people who are protesting female units are simply just protesting that they worry the female leader added would be done in an half-arsed way.

    and they for the most part genuinely hope that it would be done with finesse and flair in its implementation.


    i mean yes alot of these people would yell out the adding of further male characters in opposition to female legendary lords. but once you analyze most of their remarks.

    they are just doing it simply because the female units being implemented arent as interesting as the male named characters.

    i mean lets face it.
    reality wise.

    if CA presented Repanse in the levels of Hellebron or Alarielle or Isabella in depth and detailed models... people would be cheering it on.

    but their fears are always in related to how Tretch was implemented.
    and why in such topics Tretch is thrown in the chat atleast 50x

    ...

    but yah.

    i do wish CA add more female LL and not half-assed-ish in their addition cos lets face it.
    Quality FLC will boost sales.
    halfassed FLC will make ppl roll their eyes.

    think of it as an Investment.

    ...that being said.
    CA should of atleast added

    Ariel
    Neferata
    Elseph Von Draken

    cos those 3 womens are ultra badasses.

    heck. maybe even make a small faction or add a new unit for Volkmar the Grim's recruit chain of "Sisters of Sigmar" which are fantasy version of Sisters of Battle.

    essentially Fantasy Nuns with big armor and hammers smashing the witch, the mutant, the heretic in the name of Sigmar.

    I agree!!!
    Just add Sisters of Twilight to the mix and it's perfect!!!
  • HelhoundHelhound Registered Users Posts: 4,193
    Prkl8r said:

    Warhammer has plentiful examples of a wide range of females at war, there isn't a problem with representation. Literally no one I've seen has explicitly stated that bringing more females into TWW is the problem. This thread, apart from being absolutely eye bleeding to read, serves no purpose beyond lock bait. Just like the last thread about characters sharing a name with a Nazi. Pointless.

    People don't usually outright say that don't want females in the game, but they I find people are often extra critical of female characters being added. They usually don't like it when female characters are melee oriented and not ranged or casters. They also usually dislike it unless the female character is pretty. I mean I've already seen people say Repanse needs makeup.

    That's been what I've seen from reactions over the years.

    As far as representation in the setting. It depends on faction. Elves are usually better, but Empire and Bretonnia are a little lacking. Most of my issues with the representation in the setting are that there are so few female characters like Valkia or Hellebron. It seems to me that most female characters are Casters in combat, and generally tend to sit in back and manipulate others outside of combat. I mean Nefarata is the OG prime vampire and she's generally not even considered the most powerful vampire, in combat or in general....wtf is that?

    It's fine though, WG has been doing a lot to even out the disparity in their IPs like 40k and AoS, I assume they will do the same in the fantasy reboot coming soon.
    This is a statement built upon assumption. Sometimes people actually mean what they say when it comes to criticism. The comment that they don't outright say but imply female being the point of contention isn't fair. Repanse has criticism for her lack of banner and dramatically misplaced time. One of those is fair, the banner, the other can be hand waved away given just how little it would change about her character to be here now instead of then. Neither of these criticisms however, are about her being female. And neither of those criticims are a mask to hide criticism for her being female. They are exactly they they say. The only reason people could assume extra criticism against the female lords in game from this forum is that threads like this pop up all the time in their wake. Defending against criticisms that aren't there.

    The visual appeal argument you bring up gets brought up every time a character gets introduced, and isn't unique to females. It circles back to expectations. Its why the most amusing and frequently brought up visual argument is still Alith Anars oversized head. Even when it comes to female lords who were brought under legendarily backwards scrutiny, Morathi for example lit the forum on fire, the reasoning behind it was expectations. Morathi is supposed to be the most beautiful woman in setting. People disagreed with her representation, some took it way too far. With Repanse and the makeup argument, again it circles back to expectation. Shes Bretonnian high nobility. There's an expectation associated with that. Personally I think they nailed it, but for point of reference imagine if Leoun Leouncour lacked that regal kingly look about him. Or if and when they introduce Valkia they don't give her horns. Characters need to be larger than life, and look the part. Again though outside the missing banner Repanse is fine, which seems to be the general consensus.

    The thread already brought up examples of powerful female characters. But the point about Neferata not being considered the "most powerful Vampire" is objectively wrong. She's just not the most powerful at everything. Vlad may hold the crown at most general skillset, but absolutely none of the Vampires have the same global influence Neferata and the Lahmian vampires possess. They have their fingers in everyones cookie jar. And on top of that, there is like one Vampire who can consistently get into a straight up brawl with her and win everytime. And that's Aborash. Fighting is literally the only thing he does though. Even Vlad would need to lean on his immortality ring more than likely in a straight up brawl. Neferata isn't the pushover you make it seem, it just isn't as cut and dry as one Vampire reigning supreme over the others. This argument also has nothing to do with her being female. It is, once again, merely an assumption.
  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,436

    Or if and when they introduce Valkia they don't give her horns.

    The sad thing is that this valid point is going to be misquoted later as “some neckbeard on the forums insisting Valkia be horny”.
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 6,021
    The Sisters of Sigmar exist in the lore and fought in Mordheim, but as far as I remember they were disbanded centuries ago.
  • Tempus_fugitTempus_fugit Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,328
    Kirkwald said:

    ... The last thing I want is a "good" skaven.

    Sneek Scratchett may qualify.
    There is no time but the present. – S:TW Hojo, R:TW Brutii/Germania/Alemanni(BI), Med2: Venice, S2: Oda, R2: Julia/Boii/Suebi/Lusitani, Attila: Geats/Garamantians, WH: All factions VH, Wood Elves on L. TWWH2: Lizardmen, Dark Elves, Skaven, Khalida, High Elves, Vampirates. ME: Khalida, Vampire Counts, Carcasonne, Wood Elves
  • KirkwaldKirkwald Registered Users Posts: 947
    Sephlock said:

    Or if and when they introduce Valkia they don't give her horns.

    The sad thing is that this valid point is going to be misquoted later as “some neckbeard on the forums insisting Valkia be horny”.
    Or Valkia without her hooves, her wings or her infamous daemon shield.
  • DelteriusDelterius Registered Users Posts: 47
    Kirkwald said:



    Maybe because Clyostra was an OC character and everyone who cares about the lore had every right to complain?

    That is such a stupid idea. The Warhammer world was killed before its time. Now that its alive again, new things are being introduced. Just as they would be otherwise. Only pedants worship the bones of long dead languages, my friend.
  • PlatypusErosPlatypusEros Registered Users Posts: 85
    Cylostra did get a lot of flak based on her appearance. I think she is the epitome of a certain part of Warhammer and love her.

    Hadn't seen the Repanse needs make up argument. I agree that they nailed her look, though I would have loved to see the banner I can only assume it would have been exponentially harder to animate than a two handed sword.

    Sexism is and, I in my humble opinion, should be part of certain Warhammer races. It is part of the setting, which is intended to be fairly dark fantasy. However it can be a background bit, like all the horrible stuff that is rarely mentioned. Games Workshop and Warhammer have both matured over the years and there is plenty of room for females, of all shapes and sizes, in the game.

    There will always be a vocal minority who object to a female character they find unattractive, or lore breaking ( my brain immediately suggests female skaven, yet I find myself curious if CA could make it work, as much as the lore nerd in me shudders. ) but most objections I've personally seen are based on lore reasons rather than real world influences. Warhammer has a very passionate fan base and a lot of the same voices that object to Repanse objected to Azhag for similar timeline based reasons. At the end of the day, Warhammer is a game and more characters and armies add content.

    Plus, if Repanse can be included, our goblin overlord, Grom the Paunch seems more likely in the Greenskin rework. :D Ooo and Tzar Boris, though how it would work having Tzar and Tzarina at the same time would need thinking about.

    Also, completely off topic, I just ordered the female Magus to lead a Necromunda GSC gang. Because she is fantastic.
  • KirkwaldKirkwald Registered Users Posts: 947
    Delterius said:

    Kirkwald said:



    Maybe because Clyostra was an OC character and everyone who cares about the lore had every right to complain?

    That is such a stupid idea. The Warhammer world was killed before its time. Now that its alive again, new things are being introduced. Just as they would be otherwise. Only pedants worship the bones of long dead languages, my friend.
    Funny you say that when a lot of people still hold Latin as a sacred language so much that it is the language of the Roman Catholic church. But besides that, you do realize that the reason TWWH got so popular in the first place because of the mass migration of tabletop players grieving that GW killed their setting and only want to enjoy said setting in a video game format?
    Also, people hated Clyostra because people at least expected a character from WH lore, so much that some people even thought her to be the Silver Princess or Countess Jacoba of Sylvania.
  • DelteriusDelterius Registered Users Posts: 47
    edited December 2019
    Kirkwald said:

    Delterius said:

    Kirkwald said:



    Maybe because Clyostra was an OC character and everyone who cares about the lore had every right to complain?

    That is such a stupid idea. The Warhammer world was killed before its time. Now that its alive again, new things are being introduced. Just as they would be otherwise. Only pedants worship the bones of long dead languages, my friend.
    Funny you say that when a lot of people still hold Latin as a sacred language so much that it is the language of the Roman Catholic church. But besides that, you do realize that the reason TWWH got so popular in the first place because of the mass migration of tabletop players grieving that GW killed their setting and only want to enjoy said setting in a video game format?
    Also, people hated Clyostra because people at least expected a character from WH lore, so much that some people even thought her to be the Silver Princess or Countess Jacoba of Sylvania.
    Seeing the setting grow and change is the whole point of enjoying it. If tabletop players wanted to see it frozen in time they should be happy that endtimes nailed its coffin. But they weren't. They wanted the story to move forwards, to introduce new concepts and characters. Cylostra isn't an 'OC'. She's official content that might as well have been introduced in a book or the fabled ninth edition. You bring up Latin, calling it 'the language of the Roman Catholic Church'. Which actually celebrates mass in local languages and whose state administration actually runs on italian. I suppose there IS a radio in Finland that uses Latin. Perhaps that should have been the fate of True and Pure Warhammer Fantasy: a play with only sanctioned characters and lines, played upon the frozen shores of Lake Geneva for the appreciation of a dedicated audience.
  • ZelnikZelnik Registered Users Posts: 492
    Please close this thread and ban the original poster. Keep your politics out of this game.


    Warhammer has had female characters and most races that can have female LL. Only one is a custom model made by CA.

    Every race that can have females in their army has females in their army.

    Some of the most powerful and influential characters are female.

    Stop trying to ruin something we love just because you have an axe to grind. You don't get to dictate what we like because it upsets you. Go away.
  • KirkwaldKirkwald Registered Users Posts: 947
    Delterius said:

    Kirkwald said:

    Delterius said:

    Kirkwald said:



    Maybe because Clyostra was an OC character and everyone who cares about the lore had every right to complain?

    That is such a stupid idea. The Warhammer world was killed before its time. Now that its alive again, new things are being introduced. Just as they would be otherwise. Only pedants worship the bones of long dead languages, my friend.
    Funny you say that when a lot of people still hold Latin as a sacred language so much that it is the language of the Roman Catholic church. But besides that, you do realize that the reason TWWH got so popular in the first place because of the mass migration of tabletop players grieving that GW killed their setting and only want to enjoy said setting in a video game format?
    Also, people hated Clyostra because people at least expected a character from WH lore, so much that some people even thought her to be the Silver Princess or Countess Jacoba of Sylvania.
    They wanted the story to move forwards, to introduce new concepts and characters.
    Said who? After what GW did with Age of Sigmar, a lot of fans did eventually see that the End Times was a blessing in disguise simply because that meant that GW wouldn't be able to further destroy the integrity of the lore after all the retcons that hurt the setting during the late stages of 8e.

    The only shame of the lore being frozen in time is that some factions didn't get fleshed out like Bretonnia, but it was still a lot more acceptable and a necessary sacrifice just so that Warhammer Fantasy wouldn't turn into the abomination illustrated below.



  • vintagepurplevintagepurple Registered Users Posts: 800
    Not all criticisms of female characters are sexist but it is tiresome that every single female character gets their appearance nitpicked and called ugly/manfaced/whatever. That some male characters also get complained about doesn't mean it isn't sexist that it happens to every woman. Hell I'm gay but you don't see me crying on the forums that I can't spank it to Volkmar or Noctilus.

    Also, it's tiresome that at least one person has to blame "SJWs" for every single time a female character gets included before a male one.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 2,606
    edited December 2019

    Not all criticisms of female characters are sexist but it is tiresome that every single female character gets their appearance nitpicked and called ugly/manfaced/whatever. That some male characters also get complained about doesn't mean it isn't sexist that it happens to every woman. Hell I'm gay but you don't see me crying on the forums that I can't spank it to Volkmar or Noctilus.

    Also, it's tiresome that at least one person has to blame "SJWs" for every single time a female character gets included before a male one.

    Neither of those are supposed to be handsome
  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,436

    Not all criticisms of female characters are sexist but it is tiresome that every single female character gets their appearance nitpicked and called ugly/manfaced/whatever. That some male characters also get complained about doesn't mean it isn't sexist that it happens to every woman. Hell I'm gay but you don't see me crying on the forums that I can't spank it to Volkmar or Noctilus.

    Also, it's tiresome that at least one person has to blame "SJWs" for every single time a female character gets included before a male one.

    This time around I saw exactly one, and his post was pretty tame.
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • PlatypusErosPlatypusEros Registered Users Posts: 85
    Just a few notes regarding the issues with Age of Sigmar and the death of fantasy.

    When Age of Sigmar was released, there were no points, no way to balance an army, it was suggested you put everything you owned on the table and battled it out. It was a train wreck until the Generals Handbook. It also had zero lore and suggested that you put your miniatures bases ON OTHER MINIATURES BASES. This is heresy. Folks were upset that Games Workshop offed 8th Edition fantasy and replaced it with such utter crap.

    Since then, they've made it a good game, a game with lore ( However much I dislike Sigmarines ) and an evolving storyline with new, interesting armies and points values so you can have balanced fights. ( Kharadron, Ioneth, even Daughters of Khaine got some really cool, interesting lore and new units, as much as I'd like to see more. ) Sigmarines are a business decision, but if you ignore them, there's a lot of good in AoS.
  • vintagepurplevintagepurple Registered Users Posts: 800

    Not all criticisms of female characters are sexist but it is tiresome that every single female character gets their appearance nitpicked and called ugly/manfaced/whatever. That some male characters also get complained about doesn't mean it isn't sexist that it happens to every woman. Hell I'm gay but you don't see me crying on the forums that I can't spank it to Volkmar or Noctilus.

    Also, it's tiresome that at least one person has to blame "SJWs" for every single time a female character gets included before a male one.

    Neither of those are supposed to be handsome
    Aranessa and Repanse aren't supposed to be hot but that stops no one
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,092

    Just a few notes regarding the issues with Age of Sigmar and the death of fantasy.

    When Age of Sigmar was released, there were no points, no way to balance an army, it was suggested you put everything you owned on the table and battled it out. It was a train wreck until the Generals Handbook. It also had zero lore and suggested that you put your miniatures bases ON OTHER MINIATURES BASES. This is heresy. Folks were upset that Games Workshop offed 8th Edition fantasy and replaced it with such utter crap.

    Since then, they've made it a good game, a game with lore ( However much I dislike Sigmarines ) and an evolving storyline with new, interesting armies and points values so you can have balanced fights. ( Kharadron, Ioneth, even Daughters of Khaine got some really cool, interesting lore and new units, as much as I'd like to see more. ) Sigmarines are a business decision, but if you ignore them, there's a lot of good in AoS.

    Some of the models are great but the lore is still hot dog ****
  • KirkwaldKirkwald Registered Users Posts: 947

    Not all criticisms of female characters are sexist but it is tiresome that every single female character gets their appearance nitpicked and called ugly/manfaced/whatever. That some male characters also get complained about doesn't mean it isn't sexist that it happens to every woman. Hell I'm gay but you don't see me crying on the forums that I can't spank it to Volkmar or Noctilus.

    Also, it's tiresome that at least one person has to blame "SJWs" for every single time a female character gets included before a male one.

    Neither of those are supposed to be handsome
    Aranessa and Repanse aren't supposed to be hot but that stops no one
    >Aranessa

    Someone didn't read the Dreadfleet novella. Aranessa was beautiful DESPITE being a mutant. One particular part where Aranessa and Jaego Roth went to a tavern in Sartosa to ask for information about how to get to the Galleon's Graveyard, many of the patrons were eyeing Aranessa and one even attempted to grope her. Jaego himself upon seeing Aranessa again for the first time got nostalgic of their romantic escapades.

    >Repanse

    She wasn't described as beautiful yes, but considering her lore is practically just an excuse to include to Jeanne D'Arc aka a historical figure known to possess an angelic radiance, and with some sources saying, a rather voluptuous figure according to her squire and fellow soldiers, should be any else but stunning.

    That said, no one is saying Repanse is ugly. In fact many are praising that she's probably one of the prettiest female models CA has made in TW, but what people are **** about is the lack of her flag which is an important icon of every Jeanne D'Arc character...and as for me, it's the horrible delivery of her voice acting but we've already had a thread for that and I'd rather not delve into it any further.

  • ZelnikZelnik Registered Users Posts: 492
    Please close this thread and ban the OP.
  • kelembribor21kelembribor21 Registered Users Posts: 225
    edited December 2019
    What GW or even Ca could extrapolate from this thread is there is real big maket for Virtual Date Warhammer game.

    Or even making plastic accessories or silicon made life size models * wink
  • vintagepurplevintagepurple Registered Users Posts: 800
    A Cylostra sex doll for every forumite
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,915
    Women in TW:WH? As long as they are true to their lore descriptions and arts. But the same goes for all LL no matter their gender. There is no sin greater than purposeful uglification. I care a lot about me models.

    Now give me Sisters of Twilight. And make them pretty! And their voices sweet!
    Kirkwald said:



    That said, no one is saying Repanse is ugly. In fact many are praising that she's probably one of the prettiest female models CA has made in TW, but what people are **** about is the lack of her flag which is an important icon of every Jeanne D'Arc character...and as for me, it's the horrible delivery of her voice acting but we've already had a thread for that and I'd rather not delve into it any further.

    She was nigh perfect. Why CA, why did you curse her with that hoarse, tomboyish voice of a brute.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • Ares354Ares354 Registered Users Posts: 3,712
    Well depend, how and to who you wish to add more female.

    For Human nation who are based on Europe real life military its hard. Mostly men fought wars, from Knights to professional armies.

    But Empire in game could get few female character, I would love to see female version of some Wizard, Bright one, Life one, even Amethyst. Its well know, women can use magic and can be battle wizards. As for Empire LL, only Lady Nuln is option to be women as LL for Empire

    As for rest, WE can get more women with eaz, Kislev ruler is women, DoW can get few women warriors and Lords, its possible.



  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,435

    Women in TW:WH? As long as they are true to their lore descriptions and arts. But the same goes for all LL no matter their gender. There is no sin greater than purposeful uglification. I care a lot about me models.

    Now give me Sisters of Twilight. And make them pretty! And their voices sweet!

    Kirkwald said:



    That said, no one is saying Repanse is ugly. In fact many are praising that she's probably one of the prettiest female models CA has made in TW, but what people are **** about is the lack of her flag which is an important icon of every Jeanne D'Arc character...and as for me, it's the horrible delivery of her voice acting but we've already had a thread for that and I'd rather not delve into it any further.

    She was nigh perfect. Why CA, why did you curse her with that hoarse, tomboyish voice of a brute.
    Do the sisters ever even talk? I thought they came back from their "reverie" in the forest mute or something...
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
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