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Campaign fix for broken Bretonnia 👨‍🔧

WorriedGryphonWorriedGryphon Posts: 10Registered Users
Firstly I'd like to state that once again, I think that CA have done an incredible job. Truly thank you CA for all the hard work, those turn times especially seem a game changer. Eternal thanks for all 🙏

But with Bretonnia, I can't say I've checked every single upload out there, but I can't see any change to the replenishment for the faction. While all the updates have been amazing, the fact that you're stuck with the base replenishment for the entire game (along with green skins before anyone starts going off on that!) ruins the fun of any campaign. Waiting 8 turns for an army to fully replenish just isn't that great and it could be such a simple fix. Replacing 'tenth-share' (the most useless skill imo!) for a standard replenishment one while adding a tech or two would be all it needs.

Surely it doesn't seem right that nearly every other faction has at least a way of getting +15% and often much more! What do you all think? If people agree, how do you ask CA to consider it?

Comments

  • SubjectEighteenSubjectEighteen Posts: 422Registered Users
    edited December 2019
    I would argue that replenishment for knights should be slow, but there should ABSOLUTLEY be a skill to massively increase peasant replenishment. The poor buggers are numerous and expendable after all.
    Post edited by SubjectEighteen on
  • SephlockSephlock Posts: 2,321Registered Users

    Firstly I'd like to state that once again, I think that CA have done an incredible job. Truly thank you CA for all the hard work, those turn times especially seem a game changer. Eternal thanks for all 🙏

    But with Bretonnia, I can't say I've checked every single upload out there, but I can't see any change to the replenishment for the faction. While all the updates have been amazing, the fact that you're stuck with the base replenishment for the entire game (along with green skins before anyone starts going off on that!) ruins the fun of any campaign. Waiting 8 turns for an army to fully replenish just isn't that great and it could be such a simple fix. Replacing 'tenth-share' (the most useless skill imo!) for a standard replenishment one while adding a tech or two would be all it needs.

    Surely it doesn't seem right that nearly every other faction has at least a way of getting +15% and often much more! What do you all think? If people agree, how do you ask CA to consider it?

    Then poor Alberic would be stuck without a replenishment trait, since his equivalent of that trait is the ports trait.
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • WorriedGryphonWorriedGryphon Posts: 10Registered Users

    I would argue that replenishment for knights should be slow, but there should ABSOLUTLEY be skill to massively increase peasant replenishment. The poor buggers are numerous and expendable after all.

    Totally agree that the peasants should have an even higher replenishment compared to the Knights, possibly even bordering Skaven/VC zombie esque levels as they are also so numerous and fill the same 'meat shield' role or mentality.

    But should Knights replenishment be slower than that of demigriph knights, phoenix guard, dragon princes etc for at the moment, it can be up to 10 times slower! (Base being 3% I'm pretty sure and the other factions being able to get +30% from lords and heroes).
  • WorriedGryphonWorriedGryphon Posts: 10Registered Users
    Then poor Alberic would be stuck without a replenishment trait, since his equivalent of that trait is the ports trait.

    In fairness that never crossed my mind, but I'm sure there another skill would fit, possibly the premonition one which always seemed rather odd to me lore wise.

    The other suggestion was simply adding a hero which would add replenishment - perhaps some sort of ranged foot hero

  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Posts: 1,826Registered Users
    they need more units
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • endurendur Posts: 3,242Registered Users
    Fey Enchantress faction has a 15% bonus to replenishment. Repanse and King Louen also have replenishment bonuses for their armies.

    I agree that the Bretonnian faction is one of the worst factions for replenishment. But not every faction has to be equally good at everything.

    There are a couple of lord traits that affect replenishment, but they are suboptimal. One trait requires you to defeat the Fay Enchantress. The other trait requires your lord to spend a lot of time in land with vampiric corruption.

  • SephlockSephlock Posts: 2,321Registered Users
    endur said:


    I agree that the Bretonnian faction is one of the worst factions for replenishment. But not every faction has to be equally good at everything.

    It's less about that and more that Bretonnia is supposed to be a Crusading/Errantry war faction and yet is hobbled in that little cul de sac.
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,507Registered Users
    I've never had replenishment problems as Bretonnia. I've had more problems playing High Elves.

    The meat and potatoes of your army, is low model count cavalry, you shouldn't be losing 80% of your troops in a battle. If you have to wait 8 turns to replenish after every battle, it's because you're playing poorly.
  • SubjectEighteenSubjectEighteen Posts: 422Registered Users

    I would argue that replenishment for knights should be slow, but there should ABSOLUTLEY be skill to massively increase peasant replenishment. The poor buggers are numerous and expendable after all.

    Totally agree that the peasants should have an even higher replenishment compared to the Knights, possibly even bordering Skaven/VC zombie esque levels as they are also so numerous and fill the same 'meat shield' role or mentality.

    But should Knights replenishment be slower than that of demigriph knights, phoenix guard, dragon princes etc for at the moment, it can be up to 10 times slower! (Base being 3% I'm pretty sure and the other factions being able to get +30% from lords and heroes).
    That's a fair point, but to be honest, replenishment rates in general are too damn high for most game 2 factions. A faction wide buff to unit replenishment would be great after you've unified Bretonnia or hit a certain chivalry number. I stand by my assertion that the knights should still replenish at a noticeably slower rate then the peasants.
  • yukishiro1yukishiro1 Member Posts: 507Registered Users
    Welcome to TW:Warhammer, where a dying race who breeds extremely slowly and takes decades to reach adulthood can replenish units from 5 models to full strength in 2 turns, but it takes a race that literally springs up like mushrooms and has nearly limitless numbers running around all over the place all the time 5-10 turns to restore a unit of goblins.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,222Registered Users
    psychoak said:

    I've never had replenishment problems as Bretonnia. I've had more problems playing High Elves.

    The meat and potatoes of your army, is low model count cavalry, you shouldn't be losing 80% of your troops in a battle. If you have to wait 8 turns to replenish after every battle, it's because you're playing poorly.

    How do you possibly have replenishment issues as HE? Que?
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • KirkwaldKirkwald Posts: 713Registered Users
    edited December 2019

    Welcome to TW:Warhammer, where a dying race who breeds extremely slowly and takes decades to reach adulthood can replenish units from 5 models to full strength in 2 turns, but it takes a race that literally springs up like mushrooms and has nearly limitless numbers running around all over the place all the time 5-10 turns to restore a unit of goblins.

    This. On top of the already generous rites that WH2 factions get, EVERYONE's heroes gets all the campaign options like training, assassination, replenishment and that is on top of getting their own faction's specific resource i.e. nobles can farm influence while tomb kings can farm canopic jars.
    WH1 factions outside of vampire counts maybe are simply heavily content-creeped and I imagine it will even be much worse when WH3 comes out.
    endur said:

    But not every faction has to be equally good at everything.

    WH2 factions would like to disagree with you. Everyone gets big monsters. Everyone has busted AP damage. Everyone has busted ranged units (yes Lizardmen has really good ranged now). Everyone has busted spells. And many more.
  • Jman5Jman5 Posts: 180Registered Users
    edited December 2019

    Welcome to TW:Warhammer, where a dying race who breeds extremely slowly and takes decades to reach adulthood can replenish units from 5 models to full strength in 2 turns, but it takes a race that literally springs up like mushrooms and has nearly limitless numbers running around all over the place all the time 5-10 turns to restore a unit of goblins.

    Yeah, I think they wanted High Elves to be the beginner faction for WH2 players so they were overly generous with their economy. replenishment rate, and recruitment times.
  • WorriedGryphonWorriedGryphon Posts: 10Registered Users
    Ultimately I feel that every faction needs to be able to get at least a base +15% (where most currently can easily get 30%!). Having base replenishment really puts the brakes on any campaign and gives you a huge handicap compared to every other race! (bar one, hopefully temporary, exception). I'm all for diversity in campaign, in fact I generally think the more the better and am happy that CA seem to have that as a goal. The more unique and different each campaign can feel gives so much more replay-ability to an already incredible game.

    However lack of any replenishment options is not an intended 'unique' campaign mechanic and more of just a simple and inevitable oversight in such a huge game. One which I find hard to believe that anyone would be against fixing.
    endur said:

    Fey Enchantress faction has a 15% bonus to replenishment. Repanse and King Louen also have replenishment bonuses for their armies.

    I agree that the Bretonnian faction is one of the worst factions for replenishment. But not every faction has to be equally good at everything.

    There are a couple of lord traits that affect replenishment, but they are suboptimal. One trait requires you to defeat the Fay Enchantress. The other trait requires your lord to spend a lot of time in land with vampiric corruption.

    In regards to these, yes you get a 15% bonus if you pick Carcassonne (may have misspelled it) as your faction, however that argument would require you to ALWAYS pick that starting faction. With Louen, it is a small extra replenishment for knight units if I remember correctly and affects his army only, meaning the faction as a whole still has the same handicap. Don't know of Repanse's skill, but I would guess it is only for her army as well and again, not very substantial.
    With the +10% trait you gain from defeating the Fey Enchantress it would require you to always be at war with the Carcassonne (a fellow Bretonnian faction) and to defeat her with all your generals on separate occasions to make it the faction wide buff you need, which still wouldn't compete with the 15-30% of other races which can just stick a hero in the army.
    I get the point you have made, and completely agree with the fact that there are always less obvious ways to increase replenishment rate, however I would say these are small buffs/rewards for very specific goals and NOT the intended mechanic for Bretonnia to obtain better replenishment.
    I also agree that not every faction should be equally good at everything, in fact, as stated above, I believe diversity should be searched for in all of the factions and starting LL's. However I really don't think this adds 'diversity' and take a wager with any of the Chaos gods, that it is in-fact, simply an oversight. If anything, Humans are one of the more populous races in Warhammer and should have greater than average replenishment, especially compared to a 'dying' race like HE.


    I totally agree with with SubjectEighteen (not sure how to tag a name) with that the 'peasant' class units should have a really strong replenishment and noticeably more than knights. But I would also add that Bretonnia in general should have an average, if not greater than, base replenishment - as in with hero and skills and whatnot, not actually base replenishment.

    they need more units

    Totally would want this to happen, even 4 or 5 to add a bit more flavour to the whole faction. I know people have stated many times that their roster is complete, but I think CA have done some of their best work, raising their own bar, when given more free reign to add to the Warhammer world. While this would also give the chance for another hero (to hopefully boost replenishment) I have a gut feeling Bretonnia might never get it's own DLC and if they do, not for a long while.


    It has also occurred to me that another, possibly, simple fix would be giving a choice in Paladin recruitment on whether their skill would be training or replenishment. Along with tech of course.

    But more to the point, would anyone be against Bretonnia having a way of getting a faction wide replenishment increase of at least +15% by some means, to be on par or less sub-par with the other races?

    If not, does anyone know a better way of posing the suggestion to CA??
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,823Registered Users
    psychoak said:

    I've never had replenishment problems as Bretonnia. I've had more problems playing High Elves.

    The meat and potatoes of your army, is low model count cavalry, you shouldn't be losing 80% of your troops in a battle. If you have to wait 8 turns to replenish after every battle, it's because you're playing poorly.

    HE have such a generous after battle recovery option, this is never a factor when I play them. I can just feed them into the grinder and not worry.

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