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Tretch and Queek only Skaven worth playing now?

ItharusItharus Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 9,998
As near as I can tell, only the two warlord clans don't have some ludicrous game-ending "I-Win" button going on, now.

Or did I miss something and they in fact, do?

If they do not, I truly hope that they never do. The major 3 (4 is coming, don't worry skavies) clans seem to just be "end-turn-to-victory" factions.

Lame.
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  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 3,946
    Itharus said:

    As near as I can tell, only the two warlord clans don't have some ludicrous game-ending "I-Win" button going on, now.

    Or did I miss something and they in fact, do?

    If they do not, I truly hope that they never do. The major 3 (4 is coming, don't worry skavies) clans seem to just be "end-turn-to-victory" factions.

    Lame.

    And the orc goes Waaaaaaagh waaaaaagh....

    Couldn't help myself.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,998
    When this orc goes Waaagh! you'll know it, victim.

    Believe it or not, I enjoy Skaven as a faction - a pale imitation of orcs and goblins to be sure - but they have their charms.

    What I do not enjoy are ludicrously easy campaigns. It's sad that they took 3 cool characters and just... made them free wins.

    3/5 of Skaven and 100% of Vampirates are now just free wins. Makes me sad.
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Registered Users Posts: 3,262
    Yeah because Norsca has shown that going full Crow and getting a bunch of useless plagues is a real winner compared to the other choices.
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 11,397
    Itharus said:

    When this orc goes Waaagh! you'll know it, victim.

    Believe it or not, I enjoy Skaven as a faction - a pale imitation of orcs and goblins to be sure - but they have their charms.

    What I do not enjoy are ludicrously easy campaigns. It's sad that they took 3 cool characters and just... made them free wins.

    3/5 of Skaven and 100% of Vampirates are now just free wins. Makes me sad.

    You already played the game after the Update?

    I still think Eshin will have a hard Time against Dwarfs and LM. Deleting one faction still leaves enough enemies left for a big challenge. Not a big game changer when you only can use it ONCE.

    Also don’t see why Skrolk and Ikit should be “free wins” now...

    I think some people are just overreacting and should wait until they can play them on the 12th.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 8,951
    Well all factions have the capabilities to win. It's just that if used correctly the Anarchy scheme shatters the thin veneer of resistance in one fell and immediate swoop unlike anything ever seen.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,395
    Itharus said:

    As near as I can tell, only the two warlord clans don't have some ludicrous game-ending "I-Win" button going on, now.

    Or did I miss something and they in fact, do?

    If they do not, I truly hope that they never do. The major 3 (4 is coming, don't worry skavies) clans seem to just be "end-turn-to-victory" factions.

    Lame.

    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,419
    ArneSo said:

    Itharus said:

    When this orc goes Waaagh! you'll know it, victim.

    Believe it or not, I enjoy Skaven as a faction - a pale imitation of orcs and goblins to be sure - but they have their charms.

    What I do not enjoy are ludicrously easy campaigns. It's sad that they took 3 cool characters and just... made them free wins.

    3/5 of Skaven and 100% of Vampirates are now just free wins. Makes me sad.

    You already played the game after the Update?

    I still think Eshin will have a hard Time against Dwarfs and LM. Deleting one faction still leaves enough enemies left for a big challenge. Not a big game changer when you only can use it ONCE.

    Also don’t see why Skrolk and Ikit should be “free wins” now...

    I think some people are just overreacting and should wait until they can play them on the 12th.
    Dwarfs are no problem with all the stuff they got in the first LP and LM are only dangerous early on when they spam Saurus.

  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 11,397

    ArneSo said:

    Itharus said:

    When this orc goes Waaagh! you'll know it, victim.

    Believe it or not, I enjoy Skaven as a faction - a pale imitation of orcs and goblins to be sure - but they have their charms.

    What I do not enjoy are ludicrously easy campaigns. It's sad that they took 3 cool characters and just... made them free wins.

    3/5 of Skaven and 100% of Vampirates are now just free wins. Makes me sad.

    You already played the game after the Update?

    I still think Eshin will have a hard Time against Dwarfs and LM. Deleting one faction still leaves enough enemies left for a big challenge. Not a big game changer when you only can use it ONCE.

    Also don’t see why Skrolk and Ikit should be “free wins” now...

    I think some people are just overreacting and should wait until they can play them on the 12th.
    Dwarfs are no problem with all the stuff they got in the first LP and LM are only dangerous early on when they spam Saurus.
    Dwarf and LM steamroller are not a problem? Think I‘m playing a different game then...
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,166
    I think the unique building in the darkland is pretty uber. It can buff Stormvermin and give them immune to psychology and 20% cheaper, I think that would be great for Queek as well as a load of economy buffs.

    Can't wait to explore the new areas.
  • HeinzuHeinzu Registered Users Posts: 919
    Itharus said:

    As near as I can tell, only the two warlord clans don't have some ludicrous game-ending "I-Win" button going on, now.

    Or did I miss something and they in fact, do?

    If they do not, I truly hope that they never do. The major 3 (4 is coming, don't worry skavies) clans seem to just be "end-turn-to-victory" factions.

    Lame.

    Maybe I can answer your main question. Tretch and Queek are meant be played by hardcore strategy fans.

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,419
    edited December 2019
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    Itharus said:

    When this orc goes Waaagh! you'll know it, victim.

    Believe it or not, I enjoy Skaven as a faction - a pale imitation of orcs and goblins to be sure - but they have their charms.

    What I do not enjoy are ludicrously easy campaigns. It's sad that they took 3 cool characters and just... made them free wins.

    3/5 of Skaven and 100% of Vampirates are now just free wins. Makes me sad.

    You already played the game after the Update?

    I still think Eshin will have a hard Time against Dwarfs and LM. Deleting one faction still leaves enough enemies left for a big challenge. Not a big game changer when you only can use it ONCE.

    Also don’t see why Skrolk and Ikit should be “free wins” now...

    I think some people are just overreacting and should wait until they can play them on the 12th.
    Dwarfs are no problem with all the stuff they got in the first LP and LM are only dangerous early on when they spam Saurus.
    Dwarf and LM steamroller are not a problem? Think I‘m playing a different game then...
    I guess you really haven't bothered with Skaven much, they have no problem with dealing with either faction other than very early on. Once you have Warpfirethrowers and Ratling Gunners, those factions falter quickly.

  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 9,479
    hanesdav said:

    Itharus said:

    As near as I can tell, only the two warlord clans don't have some ludicrous game-ending "I-Win" button going on, now.

    Or did I miss something and they in fact, do?

    If they do not, I truly hope that they never do. The major 3 (4 is coming, don't worry skavies) clans seem to just be "end-turn-to-victory" factions.

    Lame.

    Maybe I can answer your main question. Tretch and Queek are meant be played by normal strategy players.

    Fixed that for you. Snikch is for those who want to play on easy difficulty but wont but rather wants CA to change any difficulty setting to a joke.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • KingOfNubzKingOfNubz Registered Users Posts: 10
    edited December 2019


    Fixed that for you. Snikch is for those who want to play on easy difficulty but wont but rather wants CA to change any difficulty setting to a joke.

    I think Ikit(ME) is more of an easy mode than Snikch is.

    Edit: still figuring out how this forum works.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,419
    Ikit got no Magic Faction Delete Button.

  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 11,397
    I still don’t understand why deleting one factions to give another faction a chance to expand, makes the game an easy joke...

    When I delete the Empire and wait until VC conquer all that territory will it be easier or more difficult for me? 🤔

    I just don’t see it as an „I win button“.
  • KingOfNubzKingOfNubz Registered Users Posts: 10

    Ikit got no Magic Faction Delete Button.

    He has a magic "I-Win" button for every battle.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,166
    hanesdav said:

    Itharus said:

    As near as I can tell, only the two warlord clans don't have some ludicrous game-ending "I-Win" button going on, now.

    Or did I miss something and they in fact, do?

    If they do not, I truly hope that they never do. The major 3 (4 is coming, don't worry skavies) clans seem to just be "end-turn-to-victory" factions.

    Lame.

    Maybe I can answer your main question. Tretch and Queek are meant be played by hardcore strategy fans.

    Hardcore? Queek's campaign is pretty easy.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 3,114
    Pestilence has an "I-WIN" button?
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,419
    edited December 2019
    ArneSo said:

    I still don’t understand why deleting one factions to give another faction a chance to expand, makes the game an easy joke...

    When I delete the Empire and wait until VC conquer all that territory will it be easier or more difficult for me? 🤔

    I just don’t see it as an „I win button“.

    Waidaminit, didn't you yourself say this mechanic was soo important to prevent the lategame slog? If you now create just even bigger Empires to threaten you, wouldn't that mean it does the total opposite of what you've been peddling the whole time?

    Why don't you choose a tack and then stick to it instead of transparently changing your argument to whatever is convenient?

  • FungusHoundFungusHound Registered Users Posts: 3,262

    Pestilence has an "I-WIN" button?

    No they can build undercity buildings that spread plagues, they get buffs when their territories and troops are affected by plagues, and they get increased chance of plagues spreading.

    But apparently this means they just win the game according to the OP because they got thematic faction bonuses and buildings. Like I said before, we all know that going full Crow in Norsca is just an instant win because those map-wide plagues do ever so much to help you...
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,998

    Pestilence has an "I-WIN" button?

    Basically autoplague now with undercities, which mean effectively no replenishment and attrition for most.

    I suppose depending on how much discovery that building adds I *might* be overreacting. But if it's too much we all know they will add an ability to destroy cities with plagues that have a chance to spread and destroy neighboring cities -_-
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 11,397

    ArneSo said:

    I still don’t understand why deleting one factions to give another faction a chance to expand, makes the game an easy joke...

    When I delete the Empire and wait until VC conquer all that territory will it be easier or more difficult for me? 🤔

    I just don’t see it as an „I win button“.

    Waidaminit, didn't you yourself say this mechanic was soo important to prevent the lategame slog? If you now create just even bigger Empires to threaten you, wouldn't that mean it does the total opposite of what you've been peddling the whole time?

    Why don't you choose a tack and then stick to it instead of transparently changing your argument to whatever is convenient?
    It could:

    1. turn one bloated giant empire into smaller empires of different races adding more variety.

    2. just exchange one medium Empire with another medium empire. The difference here is that I can decide to delete a faction I‘m bored to fight against. I never fight VC because they always get destroyed.

    But regarding to the actual comment you are referring to:

    I just wanted to describe why I don’t think this mechanic makes the game easier. It just increases diversity.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,419
    Itharus said:

    Pestilence has an "I-WIN" button?

    Basically autoplague now with undercities, which mean effectively no replenishment and attrition for most.

    I suppose depending on how much discovery that building adds I *might* be overreacting. But if it's too much we all know they will add an ability to destroy cities with plagues that have a chance to spread and destroy neighboring cities -_-
    They don't need to because everything undercity related already has counterplay and I don't believe the plague host or whatever they'll get will be that much harder to detect than the invasion building or the Doomsphere.

    Nowhere near the level of Snikch's Magic Faction Delete Button. That one requires no effort whatsoever and has no counterplay.

  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 3,114
    edited December 2019
    So... To summarize:

    The powerful warmachines and nukes of Skryre = "IWIN"

    The plagues of Pestilence = "IWIN"(Somehow)

    And a mechanic that is at best a gimmicky novelty that can be used once or twice per campaign = "IWIN"

    Gotcha....

    Apparently that term has been dilluted to the point of being devoid of meaning....
  • KingOfNubzKingOfNubz Registered Users Posts: 10
    edited December 2019

    Itharus said:

    Pestilence has an "I-WIN" button?

    Basically autoplague now with undercities, which mean effectively no replenishment and attrition for most.

    I suppose depending on how much discovery that building adds I *might* be overreacting. But if it's too much we all know they will add an ability to destroy cities with plagues that have a chance to spread and destroy neighboring cities -_-
    They don't need to because everything undercity related already has counterplay and I don't believe the plague host or whatever they'll get will be that much harder to detect than the invasion building or the Doomsphere.

    Nowhere near the level of Snikch's Magic Faction Delete Button. That one requires no effort whatsoever and has no counterplay.
    No effort and no counterplay? Sounds just like Ikits nukes!

    Snikchs thingy requires more thought than the other Skaven gimmicks.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,419

    So... To summarize:

    The powerful warmachines and nukes of Skryre = "IWIN"

    The plagues of Pestilence = "IWIN"(Somehow)

    And a mechanic that is at best a gimmicky novelty that can be sued once or twice per campaign = "IWIN"

    Gotcha....

    Apparently that term has been dilluted to the point of being devoid of meaning....

    A mechanic that allows deleting an unspecified number of lords, heroes and armies while rendering an unspecified number of territories passive at the simple press of a button is not "gimmicky", it's brokenly overpowered.

  • FungusHoundFungusHound Registered Users Posts: 3,262


    Apparently that term has been dilluted to the point of being devoid of meaning....

    Congratulations, you have summarized this forum in a nutshell
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 11,397
    Itharus said:

    Pestilence has an "I-WIN" button?

    Basically autoplague now with undercities, which mean effectively no replenishment and attrition for most.

    I suppose depending on how much discovery that building adds I *might* be overreacting. But if it's too much we all know they will add an ability to destroy cities with plagues that have a chance to spread and destroy neighboring cities -_-
    Pestilence uses plagues and right now they didn’t have any unique mechanic representing this. They had nothing to stand out.

    This unique undercity option is neither an I-Win button nor OP. It’s simply thematically fitting and makes a Pestilence campaign more fun.

    Is Ikits workshop an I win button? No it’s not, it’s just great!
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 3,114

    So... To summarize:

    The powerful warmachines and nukes of Skryre = "IWIN"

    The plagues of Pestilence = "IWIN"(Somehow)

    And a mechanic that is at best a gimmicky novelty that can be sued once or twice per campaign = "IWIN"

    Gotcha....

    Apparently that term has been dilluted to the point of being devoid of meaning....

    A mechanic that allows deleting an unspecified number of lords, heroes and armies while rendering an unspecified number of territories passive at the simple press of a button is not "gimmicky", it's brokenly overpowered.
    Not really... It takes a hundred turns to be able to use it. It has an attached cost. And it has a 100 turn cooldown. It is gimmicky and largely inconsequential..

    Sure, you may be able to delete the Rank 1 faction on the map. But you will be entirely unable to prevent other factions from capitalizing on the resultant power vaccuum.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,419

    Itharus said:

    Pestilence has an "I-WIN" button?

    Basically autoplague now with undercities, which mean effectively no replenishment and attrition for most.

    I suppose depending on how much discovery that building adds I *might* be overreacting. But if it's too much we all know they will add an ability to destroy cities with plagues that have a chance to spread and destroy neighboring cities -_-
    They don't need to because everything undercity related already has counterplay and I don't believe the plague host or whatever they'll get will be that much harder to detect than the invasion building or the Doomsphere.

    Nowhere near the level of Snikch's Magic Faction Delete Button. That one requires no effort whatsoever and has no counterplay.
    No effort and no counterplay? Sounds just like Ikits nukes!

    Snikchs thingy requires more thought than the other Skaven gimmicks.
    Nope, because you just have to press a button to delete an entire faction from the game. Ikit has to actually collect resources for the nukes and build them one by one. The Warpstorm rocket can be dodged and the Doomsphere has an absurdly high detection rating so chances are your undercity gets deleted before it can go off.

    Snikch's BS mechanic requires no thought whatsoever. Just pick a big faction and BOOM, they're gone, no matter if it's a 5 region or a 300 region Empire, and so are ALL of its armies, ALL of its heroes and ALL of its lords.

    And all you need to accomplish is to get Snikch to lv30 and fulfill four Skaven contracts, so basically no effort whatosever.

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