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Helman Ghorst: Awakening From the Grave

GimblestumpGimblestump Posts: 37Registered Users
Instead of Graveguard and Wight Knights, what if Helman Ghorst could summon Barded Black Knights and Barded Wight Kings?

I can't imagine Ghorst ever overtaking lords like BDVL and Mannfred, but it would be pretty nifty minor change for him to summon a fast moving armored cavalry right onto the enemy back line. Or an amoured mounted hero, whatever the situation needs. It would put a lot more pressure on the enemy instead of the slow, Graveguard tarpit summon he doesn't really need since VC has a bunch of tarpit options already.

Comments

  • another505another505 Posts: 1,288Registered Users
    Pls no summon cav

    The vp is already ridiculous

    The ability to summon a high mobility unit to destroy backline is waaay too good
  • GimblestumpGimblestump Posts: 37Registered Users

    Pls no summon cav

    The vp is already ridiculous

    The ability to summon a high mobility unit to destroy backline is waaay too good

    It's attached to Helman Ghorst and costs like 12-15 WoM. I think that's a pretty big tradeoff for a faction so reliant on magic.
  • tank3487tank3487 Member Posts: 1,422Registered Users
    Just add more range for existing Grave Guard summon. It would compensate for his lack of mobility and would make him a decent situational pick.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,502Registered Users
    Summoning grave 2h instead would immediately fix ghorst, alas hes nothing but one of the top meme-est lords out there.
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  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Posts: 1,679Registered Users
    He shouldn't even be in the game lol. Almost a dozen great Vampiric/Undead characters to choose from and they go for a complete nobody with meme mechanics and a meme statline. Worst legendary lord pick in this trilogy by a country mile :P
  • Von_CarsteinVon_Carstein Posts: 17Registered Users
    Isn't Cylostra the worst legendary lord pick over our boi Vangheist or someone like, lets say , Louis Cifer ?

    But yeah, Ghorst still not what Counts deserved . As well as Isabella in LL slot . Tbh something like Zacharias instead of Ghorst and Neferata instead of Isabella is way better...But for now we'll take what we've got .


    Speaking about current state of Ghorst and ways to improve him...
    1. Small tweaks to his Corpse Cart . Bit cheaper, bit faster, maybe some additional resists on top . Let's say -50/100 , +3-5 speed , +10% missle resist
    2. His main features is Liber Noctus and his unique summon. And last one is one of his weaknesses also . So...what about small price cut and bit longer duration of life of GG ? Range changes...well, we've got 60 m , right? It's basic range for all summons in game excluding Noctilus's one and dreaded thirteen ...and here comes my idea about OC version of this spell.
    3. OC version ain't that great comparing to pretty same priced transformation of Kadon for example. You have just naked degradating wight king . Main feature of this dudes is survivability imo, but while being summon ...Eh.
    So ... what about +4(?) wom for OC with more range (100?) and maybe bit of explosion damage and also no more king , just grave guard for now?



  • ystyst Posts: 6,502Registered Users
    Ghorst sucks too much, i think resources r better off used elsewhere. Hes just never gonna be viable, i mean 3 yrs on, its a lost cause. Ur gonna need allarial level of opness for him to ever get selected

    RIP ghorst.
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  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Posts: 372Registered Users
    Just make him a legendary hero in MP and slight adjustments as necessary to his as abilities.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,502Registered Users
    Hes a disgrace for a lord. More suited as a special necromancer hero
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  • Von_CarsteinVon_Carstein Posts: 17Registered Users
    edited January 1
    Yeah, in TT he is also hero iirc so it makes sense.
    And while being hero in mp he can be lord in campaign . ( Same as Gotrek in this differentiation from sp to mp )
  • GallowmereWarlockGallowmereWarlock Posts: 251Registered Users
    Well, not all spells are viable in MP, and not all spells are viable in SP. I think he is fine, he is just not meant to be a MP lord and that's ok.
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  • blindjonnblindjonn Posts: 112Registered Users

    Isn't Cylostra the worst legendary lord pick over our boi Vangheist or someone like, lets say , Louis Cifer ?


    I'm still sore they didn't pick Skretch, but she is quite unique in terms of character and gameplay. I think she's more interesting than Ghorst.
  • tank3487tank3487 Member Posts: 1,422Registered Users


    2. His main features is Liber Noctus and his unique summon. And last one is one of his weaknesses also . So...what about small price cut and bit longer duration of life of GG ? Range changes...well, we've got 60 m , right? It's basic range for all summons in game excluding Noctilus's one and dreaded thirteen ...and here comes my idea about OC version of this spell.
    3. OC version ain't that great comparing to pretty same priced transformation of Kadon for example. You have just naked degradating wight king . Main feature of this dudes is survivability imo, but while being summon ...Eh.
    So ... what about +4(?) wom for OC with more range (100?) and maybe bit of explosion damage and also no more king , just grave guard for now?

    His spell is already quite expensive. And much weaker after summons rebalance due to GG being tarpit in most cases. And cast range would make huge difference. And I see no reason why unique LL spell should be same as basic summon.
    Ghorst are meme Lord right now. Add cast range to something like 120-150m, and he would be extremely situational but viable pick.
  • another505another505 Posts: 1,288Registered Users
    Gravr guard with greatweapon instead like yst suggested?
  • tank3487tank3487 Member Posts: 1,422Registered Users
    edited January 2

    Well, not all spells are viable in MP, and not all spells are viable in SP. I think he is fine, he is just not meant to be a MP lord and that's ok.

    See no reason why not buff unique LL spell at least to the lvl of basic Raise Dead.
    And it would be OP cause, unlike RD you have only 2 charges.
  • sonofabhorashsonofabhorash Posts: 160Registered Users

    Isn't Cylostra the worst legendary lord pick over our boi Vangheist or someone like, lets say , Louis Cifer ?

    But yeah, Ghorst still not what Counts deserved . As well as Isabella in LL slot . Tbh something like Zacharias instead of Ghorst and Neferata instead of Isabella is way better...But for now we'll take what we've got .


    Speaking about current state of Ghorst and ways to improve him...
    1. Small tweaks to his Corpse Cart . Bit cheaper, bit faster, maybe some additional resists on top . Let's say -50/100 , +3-5 speed , +10% missle resist
    2. His main features is Liber Noctus and his unique summon. And last one is one of his weaknesses also . So...what about small price cut and bit longer duration of life of GG ? Range changes...well, we've got 60 m , right? It's basic range for all summons in game excluding Noctilus's one and dreaded thirteen ...and here comes my idea about OC version of this spell.
    3. OC version ain't that great comparing to pretty same priced transformation of Kadon for example. You have just naked degradating wight king . Main feature of this dudes is survivability imo, but while being summon ...Eh.
    So ... what about +4(?) wom for OC with more range (100?) and maybe bit of explosion damage and also no more king , just grave guard for now?



    Again i must defend her
    How many runs did you give Isabella ?? I highly disagree about her being a weak LL
    Shes got great debuff great item great ability and shes super slippery specializing in killing enemy wizards
    2200 for this package

  • ViktorTWWforumViktorTWWforum Posts: 1,115Registered Users

    Isn't Cylostra the worst legendary lord pick over our boi Vangheist or someone like, lets say , Louis Cifer ?

    But yeah, Ghorst still not what Counts deserved . As well as Isabella in LL slot . Tbh something like Zacharias instead of Ghorst and Neferata instead of Isabella is way better...But for now we'll take what we've got .


    Speaking about current state of Ghorst and ways to improve him...
    1. Small tweaks to his Corpse Cart . Bit cheaper, bit faster, maybe some additional resists on top . Let's say -50/100 , +3-5 speed , +10% missle resist
    2. His main features is Liber Noctus and his unique summon. And last one is one of his weaknesses also . So...what about small price cut and bit longer duration of life of GG ? Range changes...well, we've got 60 m , right? It's basic range for all summons in game excluding Noctilus's one and dreaded thirteen ...and here comes my idea about OC version of this spell.
    3. OC version ain't that great comparing to pretty same priced transformation of Kadon for example. You have just naked degradating wight king . Main feature of this dudes is survivability imo, but while being summon ...Eh.
    So ... what about +4(?) wom for OC with more range (100?) and maybe bit of explosion damage and also no more king , just grave guard for now?



    Again i must defend her
    How many runs did you give Isabella ?? I highly disagree about her being a weak LL
    Shes got great debuff great item great ability and shes super slippery specializing in killing enemy wizards
    2200 for this package

    Just try her against Dragon Lords. She even can win against Prince on Star Dragon ( both with full kit ).
  • Von_CarsteinVon_Carstein Posts: 17Registered Users
    I don't think that she is weak LL, she is nice for some kinds of builds . Niche, but nice . I've used her in airforce squads with vampire of death for example, in builds with 2 wight kings and so on .


    . I just feel like she better fits the role of legendary hero . And that means she shouldn't be counted in LL limit . CA said smth like ,,no more vampire lords " , but at least two of current ones aren't fitting the role.


    Also VC LL's are just Von Carsteins or necromancers, if we don't count Duke as true LL, and i just prefer the LL representations for other bloodlines too.
  • sonofabhorashsonofabhorash Posts: 160Registered Users

    I don't think that she is weak LL, she is nice for some kinds of builds . Niche, but nice . I've used her in airforce squads with vampire of death for example, in builds with 2 wight kings and so on .


    . I just feel like she better fits the role of legendary hero . And that means she shouldn't be counted in LL limit . CA said smth like ,,no more vampire lords " , but at least two of current ones aren't fitting the role.


    Also VC LL's are just Von Carsteins or necromancers, if we don't count Duke as true LL, and i just prefer the LL representations for other bloodlines too.

    ofc you take wight kings with her its kinda almost mandatory since her chalice works so well on them, regarding the vampire lord idk they are so expensive and have such a low MD plus they got their own selfheals BUT low health pool aswell.. maybe if the VC get one day some noncaster lord...
  • Odysseus95Odysseus95 Posts: 80Registered Users
    Ghorst does indeed need a lot of work to ever be truly viable. I like the majority of suggestions here, so I'd like to compile some of them.

    1. Awakening from the Grave could be overcast for GW GG, so that you have the choice between regular GG and 2-handed GG. Should improve the flexibility of the summon and increase its viability in multiple scenarios. Also increase casting range.

    2. Ghorst is contender for one of the worst lords in general, but arguably is the worst lord due to being on the Vampire Counts roster. Majority of VC lords are viable and/or strong, except him. So, likely him being a ''Legendary Hero'' would immediately make him more interesting, since he's not competing with the other lords any longer. Problem is....he's part of a paid DLC (starring even), and I don't know if CA will ever change that. It might be a problematic decision business-wise, if you catch my drift.

    3. I don't know if any right amount of speed will help him, the low speed is supposed to be his inherent weakness, but then he also gets show to bits by missiles. I guess a minor speed buff so that he can at least go with Grave Guard could be interesting, but I don't think it will magically ''fix'' the character. He needs some sweeping and radical changes to get out of the meme zone. Him being old is not excuse, hell, Volkmar is part of the same DLC and he's still viable even strong in some matchups.
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