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Oh Alastar, is this not a bit excessive...

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  • steph74steph74 Junior Member Posts: 1,263Registered Users
    That's a fake there are no doomstack in this game
  • AnotherElfAnotherElf Posts: 146Registered Users
  • EnforestEnforest Posts: 2,104Registered Users
    Alastar's been watching Legend of Total War a lot recently.


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • makar55makar55 Posts: 1,856Registered Users
    He must watched top 5 doomstacks LegendOfTotalWar video.
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Posts: 379Registered Users
    Don’t worry. All those red points are probably for Cavalry.

    Effing computer
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Posts: 1,926Registered Users
    Didn’t know Alastor was such a hit with the ladies lol 😂
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Posts: 379Registered Users
    Valkaar said:

    Didn’t know Alastor was such a hit with the ladies lol 😂

    Why not?!? Built like a Chracian, but as majestic as a Caledorian
  • RheingoldRheingold Posts: 251Registered Users
    Valkaar said:

    Didn’t know Alastor was such a hit with the ladies lol 😂

    Tbh, carries a great big axe, rides a dragon...
    I think he's compensating for something.
  • RheingoldRheingold Posts: 251Registered Users
    Red_Dox said:

    Rather want his pile of Phoenixes?


    ------Red Dox

    Thing is I might have actually had an army somewhere who could deal with that. 19 sisters, nope, not even with an ambush. It's pretty brutal....
    also I've never seen a stack quite like it before. Been close - Surtha with 16 chariots (and 3 infantry who have to run like hell), Noctilus and 17 necros. Orion and 16 waywatchers. But there have always been a couple of other arbitrary units with them. First time I've seen 19 units/one lord. Which was interesting...
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Posts: 111Registered Users
    He's a ladies man.
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 3,301Registered Users
    Rheingold said:


    What a lovely doomstack! Lothern AI at its best. It’s funny that there are still people constantly denying the existence of such armies.😂
  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Posts: 2,817Registered Users
    Rheingold said:

    First time I've seen 19 units/one lord. Which was interesting...

    Well, the game is weird sometimes. And even H-elves are known for weird stacks


    But as bad as your 19 sisters are, the "doomstack" award this week goes to the Vampire Coast topic yesterday, with 11 Necrofex Colossi in turn 46 ;)
    https://imgur.com/a/F0frPq0

    ------Red Dox
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 3,301Registered Users
    Red_Dox said:

    Rheingold said:

    First time I've seen 19 units/one lord. Which was interesting...

    Well, the game is weird sometimes. And even H-elves are known for weird stacks


    But as bad as your 19 sisters are, the "doomstack" award this week goes to the Vampire Coast topic yesterday, with 11 Necrofex Colossi in turn 46 ;)
    https://imgur.com/a/F0frPq0

    ------Red Dox
    Yeah it’s just ridiculous how fast the AI is able to recruit these units... Colossi and also Dragons should have unit caps like the Dread Saurian in my opinion. Fighting those kind of doomstacks is just stupid.

    I really miss the times when high tier units were tied to technology.
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Posts: 379Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    Red_Dox said:

    Rheingold said:

    First time I've seen 19 units/one lord. Which was interesting...

    Well, the game is weird sometimes. And even H-elves are known for weird stacks


    But as bad as your 19 sisters are, the "doomstack" award this week goes to the Vampire Coast topic yesterday, with 11 Necrofex Colossi in turn 46 ;)
    https://imgur.com/a/F0frPq0

    ------Red Dox
    Yeah it’s just ridiculous how fast the AI is able to recruit these units... Colossi and also Dragons should have unit caps like the Dread Saurian in my opinion. Fighting those kind of doomstacks is just stupid.

    I really miss the times when high tier units were tied to technology.
    I’ve always felt they should apply the supply line logic to the individual units/unit groups. It’s a PC game after all: complex math equations are done easily. Or even a combination of the 2 like in any 4x/Grand Strategy game (soft cap limit with ever growing upkeep Penalty once it’s breached).

    So if we look at Dragons for High Elves, a fully upgraded Tower could provide a soft cap of 3 Sun, 2 Moon and 1 Star. Every sun dragon past that increases all dragon upkeep by 3% per, Moon 5% per, and Star 10% per. This encourages a more reasonable spread with stiffer penalties if just spamming all the best units. It also allows for Dragon armies just the same, just not Star Dragon armies, and certainly not multiple.

    The game also needs to chill on letting the computer cheat. Doesn’t matter what anti-doomstack non-sense you put in when the game fields 20+ armies with only 4-5 settlements sort of nonsense. I understand you almost always need to give the computer an advantage to avoid hard programming superior strategies and compensate for players cheesing exploits, but you have to throw the players a bone that aren’t drawn to cheeseball play. It only forces cheese when you allow the AI to cheat excessively
  • dreagondreagon Senior Member Posts: 2,000Registered Users
    I love it when they do that. Or a full seaguard stack. That might actually be worse.
    "The dog is a peasant and the cat is a gentleman." H.P. Lovecraft
  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Posts: 860Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    Rheingold said:


    What a lovely doomstack! Lothern AI at its best. It’s funny that there are still people constantly denying the existence of such armies.😂
    You find one example and insist that it's a giant common issue. Brilliant. I take it you are very afraid of both driving and flying? Because I can sure find you an example of each that went very badly and if there is just one example out of ten billion trials then it is a BIG HUGE MASSIVE ISSUE THAT MUST BE FIXED RIGHT NOW!!!!!

  • EnforestEnforest Posts: 2,104Registered Users

    ArneSo said:

    Rheingold said:


    What a lovely doomstack! Lothern AI at its best. It’s funny that there are still people constantly denying the existence of such armies.😂
    You find one example and insist that it's a giant common issue. Brilliant. I take it you are very afraid of both driving and flying? Because I can sure find you an example of each that went very badly and if there is just one example out of ten billion trials then it is a BIG HUGE MASSIVE ISSUE THAT MUST BE FIXED RIGHT NOW!!!!!

    Oh, look, those special people have arrived! :D


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Posts: 860Registered Users

    ArneSo said:

    Red_Dox said:

    Rheingold said:

    First time I've seen 19 units/one lord. Which was interesting...

    Well, the game is weird sometimes. And even H-elves are known for weird stacks


    But as bad as your 19 sisters are, the "doomstack" award this week goes to the Vampire Coast topic yesterday, with 11 Necrofex Colossi in turn 46 ;)
    https://imgur.com/a/F0frPq0

    ------Red Dox
    Yeah it’s just ridiculous how fast the AI is able to recruit these units... Colossi and also Dragons should have unit caps like the Dread Saurian in my opinion. Fighting those kind of doomstacks is just stupid.

    I really miss the times when high tier units were tied to technology.
    I’ve always felt they should apply the supply line logic to the individual units/unit groups. It’s a PC game after all: complex math equations are done easily. Or even a combination of the 2 like in any 4x/Grand Strategy game (soft cap limit with ever growing upkeep Penalty once it’s breached).

    So if we look at Dragons for High Elves, a fully upgraded Tower could provide a soft cap of 3 Sun, 2 Moon and 1 Star. Every sun dragon past that increases all dragon upkeep by 3% per, Moon 5% per, and Star 10% per. This encourages a more reasonable spread with stiffer penalties if just spamming all the best units. It also allows for Dragon armies just the same, just not Star Dragon armies, and certainly not multiple.

    The game also needs to chill on letting the computer cheat. Doesn’t matter what anti-doomstack non-sense you put in when the game fields 20+ armies with only 4-5 settlements sort of nonsense. I understand you almost always need to give the computer an advantage to avoid hard programming superior strategies and compensate for players cheesing exploits, but you have to throw the players a bone that aren’t drawn to cheeseball play. It only forces cheese when you allow the AI to cheat excessively
    I don't disagree that much, except when it comes to unit caps, but there are a few problems.

    1) Can the player understand the math?
    2) Can the AI work with this math without falling over?
    3) Is it "fun" to finally unlock the highest tier stuff and then not being able to use it effectively until 150 turns later because of empire size limitations?
    4) Dragons? Do you really use them all that much? They look fearsome but IMO they're just not that good. If you have a couple then keeping them healed isn't a big deal but with a full complement they take some micro to keep alive. A lord on a star dragon with +MD is pretty nasty, and it won't hurt to give him a couple of sidekicks, but beyond that it becomes really inefficient.
    5) If the AI isn't cheating then the same segment that is currently complaining about doomstacks on VH and legendary will complain how easy the game is.
  • HoneyBunHoneyBun Senior Member Posts: 4,650Registered Users
    Surtha Ek could beat that ...

    :smiley:

    (oh how I long for the days when people didn't pretend AI recruitment gone silly was the end of days ...)

    They are making an FPS. Who knew a company could have a mid-life crisis ...

  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Posts: 379Registered Users

    ArneSo said:

    Red_Dox said:

    Rheingold said:

    First time I've seen 19 units/one lord. Which was interesting...

    Well, the game is weird sometimes. And even H-elves are known for weird stacks


    But as bad as your 19 sisters are, the "doomstack" award this week goes to the Vampire Coast topic yesterday, with 11 Necrofex Colossi in turn 46 ;)
    https://imgur.com/a/F0frPq0

    ------Red Dox
    Yeah it’s just ridiculous how fast the AI is able to recruit these units... Colossi and also Dragons should have unit caps like the Dread Saurian in my opinion. Fighting those kind of doomstacks is just stupid.

    I really miss the times when high tier units were tied to technology.
    I’ve always felt they should apply the supply line logic to the individual units/unit groups. It’s a PC game after all: complex math equations are done easily. Or even a combination of the 2 like in any 4x/Grand Strategy game (soft cap limit with ever growing upkeep Penalty once it’s breached).

    So if we look at Dragons for High Elves, a fully upgraded Tower could provide a soft cap of 3 Sun, 2 Moon and 1 Star. Every sun dragon past that increases all dragon upkeep by 3% per, Moon 5% per, and Star 10% per. This encourages a more reasonable spread with stiffer penalties if just spamming all the best units. It also allows for Dragon armies just the same, just not Star Dragon armies, and certainly not multiple.

    The game also needs to chill on letting the computer cheat. Doesn’t matter what anti-doomstack non-sense you put in when the game fields 20+ armies with only 4-5 settlements sort of nonsense. I understand you almost always need to give the computer an advantage to avoid hard programming superior strategies and compensate for players cheesing exploits, but you have to throw the players a bone that aren’t drawn to cheeseball play. It only forces cheese when you allow the AI to cheat excessively
    I don't disagree that much, except when it comes to unit caps, but there are a few problems.

    1) Can the player understand the math?
    2) Can the AI work with this math without falling over?
    3) Is it "fun" to finally unlock the highest tier stuff and then not being able to use it effectively until 150 turns later because of empire size limitations?
    4) Dragons? Do you really use them all that much? They look fearsome but IMO they're just not that good. If you have a couple then keeping them healed isn't a big deal but with a full complement they take some micro to keep alive. A lord on a star dragon with +MD is pretty nasty, and it won't hurt to give him a couple of sidekicks, but beyond that it becomes really inefficient.
    5) If the AI isn't cheating then the same segment that is currently complaining about doomstacks on VH and legendary will complain how easy the game is.
    1) It’d be posted in game. So you understand spamming the same Elite units are gonna be very punishing to your income.
    2) The AI would be programmed to favor the soft cap and not go over it. The more Shrines of Asuryan you build, the higher your Phoenix Guard cap. So it would be programmed to try to fit one of each military building per province.
    3) It would be an adjustment for the doomstackers for sure, but getting that access to and using those 2 regiments of Phoenix Guard or what ever the per building would be fun. Then when your economy is obnoxious, so too can you armies be. But that’s pretty black and white thinking if you can only have “fun” if every unit in every army becomes the latest and greatest.
    4)Just an example to show how you could apply the soft caps and excess upkeep to groupings. Bastilidons, Stegadons, Sea Guard, War Wagons, Slayers etc. could all have this happen. Every faction would have “standard” or “core” units where none of this applied (to possibly include some listed). This further gives an identity to each race by allowing them to spam Endlessly certain unit types (ie. Heavy Cav for Bret) that most factions can’t, or at least their “spam” version just isn’t as strong. This creates a new avenue of balance to where maybe someone DOES have better Heavy Cavalry then Bretonnia, but they don’t have the army after army after army of Heavy Cavalry like Bretonnia.
    5) AI cheating needs to be balanced is all. Giving the AI more base cash then the player: fine. Giving the AI unlimited cash and unlimited access: not cool. The game should look to fix the cheese exploits, not adjust the AI to compensate because they exist, now forcing everyone to use them. I promise you, Legend of Total War will adjust, and he’d probably be glad to if the game adjusted accordingly.
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 3,301Registered Users

    ArneSo said:

    Rheingold said:


    What a lovely doomstack! Lothern AI at its best. It’s funny that there are still people constantly denying the existence of such armies.😂
    You find one example and insist that it's a giant common issue. Brilliant. I take it you are very afraid of both driving and flying? Because I can sure find you an example of each that went very badly and if there is just one example out of ten billion trials then it is a BIG HUGE MASSIVE ISSUE THAT MUST BE FIXED RIGHT NOW!!!!!

    Yes this is definitely the only example for such an army... Sorry my mistake 🙃
  • MasariusMasarius Senior Member Posts: 788Registered Users
    You all keep missing the point.

    The AI recruits those units, because it can't recruit other units in the province alistar spawned. Probably it was sacked before.

    The real problem is, that the AI doesn't disband units to build others.

    It is quite common phenomenon for very small factions or those who are pushed back hard.
    Till shade is gone,
    till water is gone,
    into the Shadow with the teeth bared,
    screaming defiance with the last breath,
    to spit into Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 3,375Registered Users
    Reminds when I once found morathi and she was one of three units that were not hydras!

    But man, the Surtha Ek stacks just after they made Norsca when he started to upgrade from all chariots to mammoths had me rolling. But he stacks seem to often be in th weird category while some armies seem at least a little more. Aired at times from the ai.
  • ReeksReeks Posts: 2,237Registered Users
    That Doomstack right there is a Eez target for the warpfire legions of IKIT CLAW!
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Posts: 1,933Registered Users
    steph74 said:

    That's a fake there are no doomstack in this game

    yes yes there are no such things as doomstacks
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 3,301Registered Users
    Masarius said:

    You all keep missing the point.

    The AI recruits those units, because it can't recruit other units in the province alistar spawned. Probably it was sacked before.

    The real problem is, that the AI doesn't disband units to build others.

    It is quite common phenomenon for very small factions or those who are pushed back hard.

    That’s why a recruitment system separated from buildings and provinces is way better. With the way ToB and 3k handle it we wouldn’t have these problems...

  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 22,037Registered Users
    edited January 23
    Masarius said:

    You all keep missing the point.

    The AI recruits those units, because it can't recruit other units in the province alistar spawned. Probably it was sacked before.

    The real problem is, that the AI doesn't disband units to build others.

    It is quite common phenomenon for very small factions or those who are pushed back hard.

    That's why CA added basic units to the settlement building chain, so that low tier units would always be available and this idiocy be avoided. Unfortunately they did not do so for the elves.

    Sloppy, sloppy.

  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Posts: 379Registered Users
    Masarius said:

    You all keep missing the point.

    The AI recruits those units, because it can't recruit other units in the province alistar spawned. Probably it was sacked before.

    The real problem is, that the AI doesn't disband units to build others.

    It is quite common phenomenon for very small factions or those who are pushed back hard.

    I don’t think anyone missed that point. There should just be penalties associated with that the AI is actively trying to avoid. If it’s pushed to the brink of annihilation and that’s why this happened, why does it have the funding to make that possible?

    And why do High Elves not have Spearmen attached to their cities like other factions have core troops?
  • RheingoldRheingold Posts: 251Registered Users
    Masarius said:

    You all keep missing the point.

    The AI recruits those units, because it can't recruit other units in the province alistar spawned. Probably it was sacked before.

    The real problem is, that the AI doesn't disband units to build others.

    It is quite common phenomenon for very small factions or those who are pushed back hard.

    Yeah, poor Tyrion only had 45 settlements at the time :D
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