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Maybe the problem with Araby and Kislev is Warmaster

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  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 3,637
    Nope, they grabbed the license for the table top but focused on the table top experience for a rts. This is why there are still titles coming our that use fantasy. Bit with different focus, Mordheim, Man o War, and Vermintide and other elements like books. These haven't blocked CA from using elements from that. They have used Dreadfleet, Mordheim, the books and the RPG. If people haven't clued in this isn't some blocker.

    I frankly believe CA on why there wasn't naval combat to start with. They have shown in other ways, trade, diplomacy, and watered down map mechanics in game one that they wanted the focus to be the actual battles. And they did good there! But they may have realized they dialed to far back but that makes more sense to me than man o war. Which has a definitive focus that ca wouldn't be rewriting even if they had naval combat. And if it was I think they would just say it. Exactly like when they say they will not use fan rosters. It wouldn't be any skin off their back to say it. So if someone approaches GW to make a Witcher/Skyrim game out of the RPG they likely would and not conflict at all.

    Also, Warmaster isn't even used anymore just like Dreadfleet which didn't stop CA. Warmaster borrows from Warhammer Fantasy and not the other way around.
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 399
    I feel not wanting to “rob Peter to pay Paul” has a little play here. With Desert Kingdoms for Rome 2, that is essentially the Araby roster minus the fantastic elements. I also don’t know the sales numbers on that pack, and it may have discouraged them from doing the same theme in their Fantasy title.

    But let’s be honest: North African/Arabian styled armies already have a fantastic quality to them even when just looking at the real world inspirations. Camel Cavalry that scare horses (horses hate the smell and camels will spit on them), Elephants trampling over your men. Desert raiders and skirmishers constantly ambushing you and attacking your supply carts and harassing your flanks in large engagements.

    This is why I think it’s unfortunate if they never make it in and get overlooked. But as others have mentioned, that’s another problem. They need A LOT of unique models to be able to work. Marauders were already done for WoC, so half the roster was in game. That’s just not the case for Araby, and cut and pasting from Rome 2 just isn’t gonna work
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 2,786
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    Im fairly certain that the license SEGA acquired was for all Game Workshop wargame products. Which means that all Warhammer (Fantasy Battle, Age of Sigmar and 40k) products and off-shoots are fair game.

    Nope it is only for WHFB.
    Sega definitely also have a license for W40k, since they are published Dawn of War.. and technically a license for WHFB would also be for Age of Sigmar.. SEGA is also currently listed as the publisheer of all previous THQ W40K titles.

    With that being said, I am pretty sure that SEGA doesn't own Focus Interactive or Fatshark, which respectively developed Mordheim and Vermintide.. So I would imagine that individual "Boxed Games" like Mordheim, Necromunda and Bloodbowl are exempt from the license that SEGA holds.
    Yes Sega but not CA.

    Sega is just the publisher of the games CA makes.

    CA said back in the day that they bought the license for WHFB because they always had the dream to make a total war game about warhammer. They have a license for WHFB and only for WHFB.

    They are simply not allowed to use stuff from AoS or 40k because they would need a different license for that.

    Working with licenses is very tricky.

    If we look at the LotR series Amazon is producing we can see a similar problem.
    Amazon is just allowed to use stuff from the 2. Century of LotR history.

    In the same way CA is just allowed to use WHFB stuff. Dreadfleet is technically part of WHFB but still a different game. That’s why there where only allowed to use 2 characters. It was a special case were CA worked together with GW.

    If CA would have a licence for all warhammer things, than we wouldn’t have the fat opera lady.
    CA did not buy ANY thing from Games Workshop... SEGA is the company holding the license, which they have tasked their subsidiary CA to develop a series of games for. CA does not hold any power in this transaction, since it is SEGA who decides what CA does or doesn't work on.
  • TsiarTsiar Registered Users Posts: 376
    Nelthael said:

    I think the reason why Araby and Kislev have not yet seen the light is because of Warmaster. Just like the naval battles could not be taken out because of problems with the copyright of Man O 'War, CA may have trouble obtaining Warmaster copyright, and that is why these two factions have not yet been able to be developed. At the beginning of total war warhammer 2, it is mentioned that Araby maybe will be a playable faction, they believed in being able to obtain warmaster rights, but this has been impossible for them. That is my theory.

    It seems strange to me that Araby, being such a geographically important faction and having an entire army in warmaster has not been developed. The same with kislev, which was an obvious lesson for the first game, and their army is almost all in Warmaster. With Araby I do not believe all that nonsense that it is a political or religious reason, (especially since in Araby's most modern lore the arabyans are specified as godless and bereft of faith, and only the superstitious believe in the djinns). I think that if they have not developed these two factions it is because they have not been able to.

    Jesus Christ, this **** meme is still alive? And you don't even provide a source for your claim?
    twwatcher said:

    On naval battles CA have never mentioned copyright being a problem:

    CA have been clear about Araby in terms of no plans, reasons at present unknown. Its been a hot topic due to its fit with TWW2's standalone campaign. With Kislev think we need to see what's happening with TWW 3 before you can make such parallels.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/745prn/psa_ca_has_no_trouble_getting_the_manowar_licence/

    Thank you, someone else that has actually kept themselves updated and don't regurgitate whatever garbage idiots on these forums claim.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,811
    Tsiar said:

    Nelthael said:

    I think the reason why Araby and Kislev have not yet seen the light is because of Warmaster. Just like the naval battles could not be taken out because of problems with the copyright of Man O 'War, CA may have trouble obtaining Warmaster copyright, and that is why these two factions have not yet been able to be developed. At the beginning of total war warhammer 2, it is mentioned that Araby maybe will be a playable faction, they believed in being able to obtain warmaster rights, but this has been impossible for them. That is my theory.

    It seems strange to me that Araby, being such a geographically important faction and having an entire army in warmaster has not been developed. The same with kislev, which was an obvious lesson for the first game, and their army is almost all in Warmaster. With Araby I do not believe all that nonsense that it is a political or religious reason, (especially since in Araby's most modern lore the arabyans are specified as godless and bereft of faith, and only the superstitious believe in the djinns). I think that if they have not developed these two factions it is because they have not been able to.

    Jesus Christ, this **** meme is still alive? And you don't even provide a source for your claim?
    twwatcher said:

    On naval battles CA have never mentioned copyright being a problem:

    CA have been clear about Araby in terms of no plans, reasons at present unknown. Its been a hot topic due to its fit with TWW2's standalone campaign. With Kislev think we need to see what's happening with TWW 3 before you can make such parallels.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/745prn/psa_ca_has_no_trouble_getting_the_manowar_licence/

    Thank you, someone else that has actually kept themselves updated and don't regurgitate whatever garbage idiots on these forums claim.
    Why so serious?
  • BereaverBereaver Registered Users Posts: 582

    Tsiar said:

    Nelthael said:

    I think the reason why Araby and Kislev have not yet seen the light is because of Warmaster. Just like the naval battles could not be taken out because of problems with the copyright of Man O 'War, CA may have trouble obtaining Warmaster copyright, and that is why these two factions have not yet been able to be developed. At the beginning of total war warhammer 2, it is mentioned that Araby maybe will be a playable faction, they believed in being able to obtain warmaster rights, but this has been impossible for them. That is my theory.

    It seems strange to me that Araby, being such a geographically important faction and having an entire army in warmaster has not been developed. The same with kislev, which was an obvious lesson for the first game, and their army is almost all in Warmaster. With Araby I do not believe all that nonsense that it is a political or religious reason, (especially since in Araby's most modern lore the arabyans are specified as godless and bereft of faith, and only the superstitious believe in the djinns). I think that if they have not developed these two factions it is because they have not been able to.

    Jesus Christ, this **** meme is still alive? And you don't even provide a source for your claim?
    twwatcher said:

    On naval battles CA have never mentioned copyright being a problem:

    CA have been clear about Araby in terms of no plans, reasons at present unknown. Its been a hot topic due to its fit with TWW2's standalone campaign. With Kislev think we need to see what's happening with TWW 3 before you can make such parallels.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/745prn/psa_ca_has_no_trouble_getting_the_manowar_licence/

    Thank you, someone else that has actually kept themselves updated and don't regurgitate whatever garbage idiots on these forums claim.
    Why so serious?
    It is getting really annoying to be honest. CA said that license is not a problem TWO YEARS AGO, and this false reasoning is still going around in the disputes among our know-it-all pseudo-lawyers around here and reddit, still gathering likes and lenghty discussions, while it was proved as false so long ago.

    Also, CA did not say that they would have to buy Dreadfleet license, CA said that Games Workshop pointed it out that if Curse of the Vampire Coast would use too many Dreadfleet characters, it should be named "Dreadfleet" DLC and use its theme because the only Vampire Coast thing would be Luthor Harkon.

    So CA did not add Vangheist or Skretch and istead added Cylostra to keep Vampire Coast's own theme more distinct from Dreadfleet, not because of some licensing problem.

    Games Workshop is selling their license to ANYONE for the last few years, that's why we have so many WH40K and WHFB games of bad quality. That also means that license does not cost that much. Why any of posters would think that this even can be a problem is beyond me, Games Workshop are not Tolkien estate ffs.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 7,030

    My personal suspicion is the Warmaster army list was just too generic and CA didn't think there was enough material elsewhere in the setting to build Araby up to a playable state.

    It's possible they may make the same judgement about Kislev, but Kislev also has a lot of other resources to draw on, so those might offset some of the limits Araby has.

    Yeah, I think it's more or less safe for Kislev due to an entire storyline just for them in the End Times and an entire RPG book to work with. Realm of the Ice Queen really is extensive. Only problem could be "can't be more than 50% Dreadfleet" happening with RPG this time around.

    I, personally, was worried for DoW for the most part as they haven't been as prolific in later editions beyond 6th. But I guess that's just my pessimism getting the better of me. I would still be surprised if DoW didn't come.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 24,550
    Nyxilis said:

    Nope, they grabbed the license for the table top but focused on the table top experience for a rts. This is why there are still titles coming our that use fantasy. Bit with different focus, Mordheim, Man o War, and Vermintide and other elements like books. These haven't blocked CA from using elements from that. They have used Dreadfleet, Mordheim, the books and the RPG. If people haven't clued in this isn't some blocker.

    Not only that, they practically included the Vermintide cast with the landmark building you can build in Übersreik.

  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 2,786
    Crossil said:

    My personal suspicion is the Warmaster army list was just too generic and CA didn't think there was enough material elsewhere in the setting to build Araby up to a playable state.

    It's possible they may make the same judgement about Kislev, but Kislev also has a lot of other resources to draw on, so those might offset some of the limits Araby has.

    Yeah, I think it's more or less safe for Kislev due to an entire storyline just for them in the End Times and an entire RPG book to work with. Realm of the Ice Queen really is extensive. Only problem could be "can't be more than 50% Dreadfleet" happening with RPG this time around.

    I, personally, was worried for DoW for the most part as they haven't been as prolific in later editions beyond 6th. But I guess that's just my pessimism getting the better of me. I would still be surprised if DoW didn't come.
    Well... If Kislev were to be a DLC "Realm of the Ice Queen" wouldn't exactly be a bad name for it..
  • AurawallAurawall Registered Users Posts: 327
    edited January 29
    Warmaster is the problem but not the way Nelthael describes.

    The problem is that if Kislev's Warmaster list is updated and created, Araby's Warmaster list is redundant.


    And the Kislev vlist needs a LOT of work just to do it.

    And Araby even needs more.

    It's not a license issue. It's a roster issue. There's only room for one of them.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 19,650
    Speculation is speculative.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 19,659
    Moved to TW Chat as it is not specifically about current WarHammer game play.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
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