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Liu Chong doesn't start with Chen as Prince of Chen in 190

Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,092
If anything, it's Cao Cao who should start at XuChang (YingChuan commadary in the game) and Liu Chong who should be in Chen. Historically Liu Chong had control of Chen for the entire time since the 182 start all the way up to his death in 197 but in the 190 start it's almost as if Cao Cao conquered Chen or Liu Chong gave control of Chen to Cao Cao which neither ever happened. Please fix this. I mean he's called the "Prince of Chen", never lost Chen before death but doesn't start with Chen, Wat?

Comments

  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    It's a problem with the map. Honestly I am not even sure if Yingchuan is Xuchang, I am 90% sure it is actually Chenliu and Xuchang is actually just not on the map. The map could definitely have a bit more detail around the middle of the map.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,092
    Krunch said:

    It's a problem with the map. Honestly I am not even sure if Yingchuan is Xuchang, I am 90% sure it is actually Chenliu and Xuchang is actually just not on the map. The map could definitely have a bit more detail around the middle of the map.

    Definitely agree with you that CA"s world map lacks detail, and is often wrong. I am pretty sure that XuChang was the capital of the YingChuan commandary and I have the English Wikipedia sourcing records of the three kingdoms to back this. I also don't think that ChenLiu commandary is included on CA's map (which it definitely should).

    Source:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yingchuan_Commandery.
  • IelloIello Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 428
    Liu Chong also doesn’t have access to the “prince” rank in 190, which replaces duke when you play him in 182. Seems like an oversight.
  • spazcat98spazcat98 Registered Users Posts: 3
    CA has committed a few oversights in terms of where warlords should be located. Liu Bei should be in Pingyuan at the start. Yuan Shu should be somewhat bigger and stronger at the start and more to the southeast of his current location where he actually was based.
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    spazcat98 said:

    CA has committed a few oversights in terms of where warlords should be located. Liu Bei should be in Pingyuan at the start. Yuan Shu should be somewhat bigger and stronger at the start and more to the southeast of his current location where he actually was based.

    Actually Yuan Shu is accurate. He was in Nanyang at the time. He moved to Shouchun after he was pushed out by Liu Biao, that is where he establishes his Zhong Dynasty and when Sun Ce leaves him to go to the Southlands. The capital of Yangzhou is where Shouchun is. I expect that in the 194 start he will probably start off with Yangzhou commandery.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,092
    It is accurate that Yuan Shu ruled Nanyang in the 190 start, but during this time he also ruled ChenLiu which isn't present in the game so historically his rule during the 190 start of the game should be both Nanyang and ChenLiu. I'll also add that since XiaPi commandary isn't in the game for a 194 start, CA probably should do an entire overhaul of the world map to include commandaries such as ChenLiu, ShouChun, XiaPi and a few others which are missing from the map. The game's maps also inaccurately calls provinces such as YangZhou and YiZhou as "commandaries" when they were entire provinces as hinted by the "Zhou" at the end of their names which means province. Also here is a map from Yuan Shu's page on Wikipedia to give people an idea of the geography.



    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_Shu
  • KirkwaldKirkwald Registered Users Posts: 939
    >that feeling when you've played so much dynasty warriors and some of the places in that game aren't present in this game
    Does TW3K even have the city of Chi Bi? I honestly don't remember.
  • kweassa1kweassa1 Registered Users Posts: 710
    It's the problem with initial campaign setting that got things wrong from the start, which errors are carried over naturally.

    190 AD was the lowest point of Cao Cao's life after his decisive defeat at the battle of Xingyang. After the defeat, he moved south to recruit more volunteers for his army around his homeland, but had only limited of success. After he returned to the camp of the coalition, it is not clear what he did for around a year, but most probably just serving under Yuan Shao without any noticeable events, since his forces were still recovering from defeat.

    It is in 191 AD when Cao Cao makes another move, ordered by Yuan Shao to repel Yellow Turban remnants in the commandary of Dong. Dong commandary, becomes Cao Cao's first-ever base of operations.

    This means, that at the start of the campaign, Cao Cao is the one who should be around Liu Bei's position, and his first missions should be the one taking the Dong iron mine, not Liu Bei.

    ...

    Liu Bei, at that time, was up north, across the river, heading toward Gonsun Zan. Liu Bei was also running from a defeat, and while records are not clear, there is very good reason to believe that Liu Bei was actually with Cao Cao during the Battle of Xingyang, and it was that same defeat that sent Cao Cao running south, while Liu Bei running north.

    Anyways, shortly after being received by Gongsun Zan, Liu Bei became a part of Gongsun Zan's frontline commanders in initial skirmishes against Yuan Shao's expansion, and was soon recommended by Gongsun Zan to become the magistrate of Pingyuan. It's around that time he first met with Zhao Yun as well.

    At that time, Yuan Shao, after taking over Han Fu's territory, was expanding due East toward Qing province. The commandary of Pingyuan became under the jurisdiction of Qi province in 213 AD, but before that, it was a part of Qing province. This means Liu Bei was stationed and ruled over Pingyuan with the task of stopping Yuan Shao from moving toward Qing.

    Hence, all of above taken into perspective, at the beginning of the game Liu Bei should be up north across the Yellow River, and then soon receive a mission to take Pingyuan -- not Dong.

  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    edited February 9
    Kirkwald said:

    >that feeling when you've played so much dynasty warriors and some of the places in that game aren't present in this game
    Does TW3K even have the city of Chi Bi? I honestly don't remember.

    Chibi wasn't a city. It was just an area. At the time at least.
  • Crazyt0wnCrazyt0wn Registered Users Posts: 10
    Krunch said:

    Kirkwald said:

    >that feeling when you've played so much dynasty warriors and some of the places in that game aren't present in this game
    Does TW3K even have the city of Chi Bi? I honestly don't remember.

    Chibi wasn't a city. It was just an area. At the time at least.
    Chibi is just "Red Cliffs" basically just a landmark.
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