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Improving the Child Emperor mechanic even further.

Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,119
edited February 6 in General Discussion
I like that CA have changed how the Child Emperor works, but I think they've really only scratched the surface of what could be done with the character. In fact, I think the foundation is already there to turn him into an engaging, important, and rewarding part of the game; by combining the implementation of Liu Hong from Mandate of Heaven, and the interactions with Empress Jia from Eight Princes.

First; the Child Emperor should implemented in a similar way to Liu Hong; a unique character who can't be deployed in battle, but sits in a special slot in the Court screen when you have control of him. He would have a unique portrait (that changes as the game progresses to show him growing up), a skill tree, equipment slots, etc. But most importantly, he would also have a satisfaction meter.

Second; periodically you get unique events on how you interact with him, just like with Empress Jia from Eight Princes. He may have whims like demanding you spend a chunk of money expanding his personal residence, demanding you dismiss certain characters for perceived or imagined slights against him, or even give you missions like capturing a certain settlement within a given time-frame (this doesn't mean he has any real authority over you, he just likes to feel involved in decision-making).

Depending on how you interact with him, and if you fulfill his his missions or whims, his satisfaction with your faction would go up or down, just like your relations with Empress Jia and the Jin Empire in Eight Princes.
Carrying out his wishes and completing his missions increases his satisfaction, and as long as his satisfaction is high (say, above 85), he gifts you with unique or rare ancillaries, and bestows titles on you that further increase your prestige.
If you regularly ignore him, his satisfaction would go down, and if it drops too low (say below 70) there is a chance of him fleeing your faction and seeking refuge with somebody else, and this chance increases the lower his satisfaction is.

Finally, once the Three Kingdoms period begins properly, you have two options; retire the Emperor and remove him from the game, allowing you to ascend as one of the three Emperors, as normally happens. Or keep him in power and act as his Regent, which gives you a slightly-different Imperial Court, with the Emperor sitting beside you at the top. Your faction is renamed to "The Han Empire", and you must then go on to defeat the pretenders to the Emperor's throne.

Lastly, a little quality of life improvement. Instead of the "Stay Regent / Kill Him / Banish Him" choice popping up every three years, the option should only appear once when you first gain control of him, after which you can manually choose to kill or banish him via a special button in the court screen at any time before the Three kingdoms period begins.
Post edited by Whiskeyjack_5691 on

Comments

  • Ostubaf_CattoOstubaf_Catto Registered Users Posts: 87
    I think this is a great idea. Emperor mechanic has some much untapped potential.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,116
    I think there should be an influence meter like what they did for the dynasty/warlord/bureaucracy thing when you capture the child emperor before the three kingdoms period. This meter should work in the way that the more it sways away from the emperor, the more power you will have over the Han imperial courts and the less relevant the emperor will become, ultimately leading to the child emperor eventually abdicating his title to you. This should be increased by gaining faction rank, gaining more prestige, etc. On the other hand, whenever Han territory is lost to other warlords this meter should shift more towards the child emperor reducing your influence in the imperial court, where the worst situation is when the emperor no longer recognizes you as his regent and therefore you will have to either banish or kill the child emperor and dissolve the Han court entirely. In this case the Han empire faction would go free what do what it usually does post three kingdoms period.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,237
    edited February 7
    My biggest "wonder" is : what makes holding the Child Emperor "worthwhile".

    Pros :
    # 50 Prestige, not bad but not much.
    # 10% bonus from peasentry. Again, not technically bad but not much really.
    # +10 Satisfaction. Actually pretty good all things considered.
    # Annexing Han territory for a cost, kinda worthless honnestly. (I mean they are making you pay for something you can do for free if you're not regent)

    Cons :
    # -20 Diplomatic relations. And that's actually really bad imho.

    So overall, lots of small "pros" but a very big con (imho again). So in most of my games I never bother going for the child emperor because I just believe - perhaps wrongly so - that he's going to be a liability to my campaign by giving me new (unneccessary) ennemies.


    What could be different is if we actually had a "simili-Emperor" court (a bit weaker than the real one but with as many offices) unlocked with holding Emperor Xian. Him being in the slot of the Emperor and Dong Zhuo (or whoever holds him) in the Prime Minister slot.


    I don't know really, but I would start from there at least.
  • IelloIello Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 428
    I love this proposal. He needs to be an actual character with a unique portrait and his satisfaction should matter. And you should be able to make use of him in order to do this in his name, as Cao Cao did when he made himself imperial chancellor.

    And of course, I 100% agree there should be an option to keep him in power and stay as regent during the three kingdoms endgame instead of forcibly removing him from power if you don’t want to.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,237
    Is it me or right now the little bugger child emperor will automatically go to the highest Prestige faction but only if the player holds him ?
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,119
    Rewan said:

    Is it me or right now the little bugger child emperor will automatically go to the highest Prestige faction but only if the player holds him ?

    I thought it was just me, but I guess not!

    Yeah, it seems as though as soon as another faction reaches a faction rank equivalent to the player's, the little git jumps ship and sods off to that faction.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,237
    They should have kept it like in 8P where it's based purely on the faction rank. If you are at Marquis or Duke rank he should not be allowed to buzz off again.

    Worst thing is I don't think it applies to the AI (because he was chilling for ages in Han Sui faction before I captured him and then he obviously went to Liu Bei because Liu Bei gets ton of Prestige)
  • IelloIello Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 428
    Rewan said:

    Is it me or right now the little bugger child emperor will automatically go to the highest Prestige faction but only if the player holds him ?

    No. I’ve read the script. He should flee AI factions too, though he’s programmed never to flee Dong Zhuo.

    There’s a number of factors at play that determines whether the emperor flees you: your size, your strength, and your prestige rank (penalized for being lower than duke).

    And a number of factors beyond just prestige affects the AI weight.

    Thankfully, it’s pretty easy to mod the script so he never flees. Or, to mod it so that Liu family factions get a bonus to him wanting to stay (which I think is actually reasonable).

  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,237
    Mmmh interesting, he probably fled because my army was kinda on the minimalistic side of things then...
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,116
    Yeah, with the current mechanics holding the child emperor is something which I try to avoid since I want to claim those juicy Han territory for free (technically not free but it's one quick battle with minimum losses and done) than to pay for them, and because the current "upsides" in the game aren't worth it. I don't see why it would help any faction except for the Big Dong who can get his away around things with coercion.
  • ComradCommodoreComradCommodore Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 479
    The thing is though that after the coalition he wasn't much of a factor.

    In my campaign Liu Bei ended up getting him and going on an absolute tear through the map. It felt super weird though when he deposed him. You'd think Liu Bei would have kept him.

    I would like a mechanic where you could restore the Han. Also, why does the Dong faction remain Chancellor of the State when the Emperor leaves his grasp. Would be cool if that faction rank followed the Emperor where he went.

    Final note. I think it would be kind of cool to pass out ranks to other factions as a diplomatic boost. Totally got this from the show, but when Cao Cao got the Emperor he decreed Yuan Shao some kind of a title as a gesture of good will. Would be fun if you could do stuff like
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 22,826
    edited February 9
    Rewan said:


    Thankfully, it’s pretty easy to mod the script so he never flees. Or, to mod it so that Liu family factions get a bonus to him wanting to stay (which I think is actually reasonable).

    It's actually less reasonable since those guys, by virtue of having a more "direct" line to the throne, would also be more likely to usurp his position outright and have him disappear. Other families would be more likely to at least have him around as a puppet to give their own rule the pretense of legitimacy.

  • Crazyt0wnCrazyt0wn Registered Users Posts: 10
    I like this idea. I wanted to play my Liu Chong campaign as a han loyalist but one turn after liberating the emperor from daddy Dong he just jumped ship to Sun Ce.
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