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Pre-release nitpicks : Lu Bu event as Liu Bei

RewanRewan Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 3,276
Could (and should) the event that moves Lu Bu to Liu Bei's faction when he is destroyed also add in his gang (Diao Chan, Chen Gong and Zhang Liao) to the goody two sandals ?

Comments

  • lilpopelilpope Registered Users Posts: 78
    Is this before Lu Bu betrays Liu Bei? If so no, they should just rejoin Lu Bu's faction when Lu Bu betrays Liu Bei
  • BAB1918BAB1918 Registered Users Posts: 237
    The best scenario would be that Lu Bu's faction remains intact, but becomes a vassal of Lui Bei's. I didn't watch the stream yet so I have no clue what the event actually entails. The characters loyal to Lu Bu should not scatter to the wind when he moves under Liu Bei especially if the followup event is him betraying Liu Bei.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,767
    edited March 11
    Rewan said:

    Could (and should) the event that moves Lu Bu to Liu Bei's faction when he is destroyed also add in his gang (Diao Chan, Chen Gong and Zhang Liao) to the goody two sandals ?

    Yes, they should definitely join liu Bei's faction with Lu Bu, then side with Lu Bu when or if he betrays liu Bei.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,276
    I didn't watch the stream yet so I have no clue what the event actually entails.


    What happened was simply : Lu Bu got destroyed and Blondie got an event moving Lu Bu to his faction.

    When playing as Lu Bu however you are offered the choice of becoming Liu Bei's vassal (hence keeping your gang around you)



    I'm not sure about the follow up event
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 486
    What happens is that Lu Bu gets defeated, moves to Liu Bei and loses all of his generals, who inevitably go elswhere (I've seen Chen Gong move to Yan Baihu in a playthrough).

    It's dumb but it's part of the sandbox nature of the game. It's like the way Xiahou Dun left Cao Cao immediately on turn 2 in the Liu Bei let's play.

    From what I gather, if characters aren't deployed as generals on the field, it is very, very likely that the AI will banish them to save money. We are actually lucky in this scenario that most factions start with their legendary generals already commanding armies on the field, which means we won't see so many clone wars.

    It hurts my immersion, but it's a part of the game.
  • BAB1918BAB1918 Registered Users Posts: 237

    What happens is that Lu Bu gets defeated, moves to Liu Bei and loses all of his generals, who inevitably go elswhere (I've seen Chen Gong move to Yan Baihu in a playthrough).

    It's dumb but it's part of the sandbox nature of the game. It's like the way Xiahou Dun left Cao Cao immediately on turn 2 in the Liu Bei let's play.

    From what I gather, if characters aren't deployed as generals on the field, it is very, very likely that the AI will banish them to save money. We are actually lucky in this scenario that most factions start with their legendary generals already commanding armies on the field, which means we won't see so many clone wars.

    It hurts my immersion, but it's a part of the game.

    I understand the sandbox nature of the game, but I really think there should be limits to it. Characters like Xiahou Dun, Zhang Fei, Zhang Liao, etc. shouldn't be moving out of their intended factions until they're crippled or destroyed. That makes sense from a story perspective, but for them to move on for no reason other than cost adds nothing to a sandbox experience. It simply weakens your likely end game opponents and hurts the immersion. I don't understand how the AI being stupid should fall under the "Hey, it's a sandbox game!". It seems like weak reasoning.

    On the flip side, I know that people want to play with unique characters, which is why CA needs to keep adding them in bunches along w/ mods like Make Them Unique contributing. I have held off on playing certain factions simply because there's not enough unique characters in their faction and when a Zhang Fei or Xiahou Yuan drops into my court, I can't bring myself to recruit them unless the faction they should be in is destroyed.
  • BAB1918BAB1918 Registered Users Posts: 237
    Rewan said:

    I didn't watch the stream yet so I have no clue what the event actually entails.


    What happened was simply : Lu Bu got destroyed and Blondie got an event moving Lu Bu to his faction.

    When playing as Lu Bu however you are offered the choice of becoming Liu Bei's vassal (hence keeping your gang around you)



    I'm not sure about the follow up event
    If the events that follow are for Lu Bu to then betray the Liu Bei player faction and take over one of his counties then there's no reason they should be breaking apart Lu Bu's faction. If it's a singular event w/ Lu Bu joining Liu Bei and there are no scripted events afterward, I think that at least Diaochan and Gao Shun should follow him. Zhang Liao is a tossup IMO, but would like to see him join Cao Cao if that happened. Chen Gong should also try to find a new, random lord.

    I don't think it's hurting the sandbox experience to guide characters to certain factions. It will help make the endgame more difficult, which is a plus.
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 486
    Oh don't get me wrong, I want to see the characters to be more scripted to. I don't think Xiahou Dun, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun or Zhou Yu should leave their factions period.

    But it's clearly not in their design interests.

    If I knew how, I would use mods which would stop the AI from banishing or removing these characters from their court, or stop them from removing anyone full stop.
  • BAB1918BAB1918 Registered Users Posts: 237

    Oh don't get me wrong, I want to see the characters to be more scripted to. I don't think Xiahou Dun, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun or Zhou Yu should leave their factions period.

    But it's clearly not in their design interests.

    If I knew how, I would use mods which would stop the AI from banishing or removing these characters from their court, or stop them from removing anyone full stop.

    I know there's mods out there to make uniques join their intended factions, but have yet to see one that keeps their unique generals in the faction. Hopefully CA takes a look at this (although I don't know if we're the majority or minority) or a talented modder does it.
  • LaindeshLaindesh Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,069
    mcbest said:

    Oh don't get me wrong, I want to see the characters to be more scripted to. I don't think Xiahou Dun, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun or Zhou Yu should leave their factions period.

    But it's clearly not in their design interests.

    If I knew how, I would use mods which would stop the AI from banishing or removing these characters from their court, or stop them from removing anyone full stop.

    I know there's mods out there to make uniques join their intended factions, but have yet to see one that keeps their unique generals in the faction. Hopefully CA takes a look at this (although I don't know if we're the majority or minority) or a talented modder does it.
    I dont particularly mind. I like the sandboxy feel of it. Keeping satesfaction on your generals should be a thing anyhow. Too rigid rules makes it boring too.
  • BAB1918BAB1918 Registered Users Posts: 237
    Laindesh said:

    mcbest said:

    Oh don't get me wrong, I want to see the characters to be more scripted to. I don't think Xiahou Dun, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun or Zhou Yu should leave their factions period.

    But it's clearly not in their design interests.

    If I knew how, I would use mods which would stop the AI from banishing or removing these characters from their court, or stop them from removing anyone full stop.

    I know there's mods out there to make uniques join their intended factions, but have yet to see one that keeps their unique generals in the faction. Hopefully CA takes a look at this (although I don't know if we're the majority or minority) or a talented modder does it.
    I dont particularly mind. I like the sandboxy feel of it. Keeping satesfaction on your generals should be a thing anyhow. Too rigid rules makes it boring too.
    I'm fine if I lose them myself because that's a player error. I'm merely talking about the CPU getting rid of their best characters.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,276
    Thinking about it a bit, I wonder

    I wonder if the AI doesn't automatically release characters that are "just" not doing anything (so not administrators, not on assignements and not on armies). I also wonder if it's somehow tied to the Han Empire hogging all characters in the first builds of the game.

    I can't remember if the Cao Cao AI used to release Xiahou Yuan as much in the first versions...
  • BAB1918BAB1918 Registered Users Posts: 237
    Rewan said:

    Thinking about it a bit, I wonder

    I wonder if the AI doesn't automatically release characters that are "just" not doing anything (so not administrators, not on assignements and not on armies). I also wonder if it's somehow tied to the Han Empire hogging all characters in the first builds of the game.

    I can't remember if the Cao Cao AI used to release Xiahou Yuan as much in the first versions...

    I seem to recall that Cao Cao was releasing Xiahou Yuan when the game first came out.

    I've been playing w/ the Make Them Unique (which adds the Qiao sisters) mod for quite some time and have been seeing both Zhou Yu and Xiao Qiao both showing up at court on several occasions. I'm guessing it has to do w/ Sun Ce, Da Qiao, Xiao Qiao, and Zhou Yu all showing up at the same time.

  • ScicotheronScicotheron Registered Users Posts: 34
    Rewan said:

    Thinking about it a bit, I wonder

    I wonder if the AI doesn't automatically release characters that are "just" not doing anything (so not administrators, not on assignements and not on armies). I also wonder if it's somehow tied to the Han Empire hogging all characters in the first builds of the game.

    I can't remember if the Cao Cao AI used to release Xiahou Yuan as much in the first versions...

    They may have tweaked the ai since then, however the hoarding of characters in the han empire was because of their no satisfaction penalties and free upkeep which caused their ai to keep recruiting people that would never leave. The moment you lower this free upkeep the ai would release a bunch of unused generals. I should know, I'm the one who made the han hoarding nerf mod. :)
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,276
    They may have tweaked the ai since then, however the hoarding of characters in the han empire was because of their no satisfaction penalties and free upkeep which caused their ai to keep recruiting people that would never leave.


    Mmmh fair enough.

    Did anybody using an assignement increase for factions see Cao Cao release Xiahou Yuan as much ?
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