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make halberdiers viable

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  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 7,702
    edited May 2
    U guys r severely underestimating halbediers. Lets just say CA has perfected this unit.

    All the suggestions here r extreme nerfs thus far. Has no one here ever bring 5 of these?
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  • Cadia101Cadia101 Registered Users Posts: 782
    yst said:

    U guys r severely underestimating halbediers. Lets just say CA has perfected this unit.

    All the suggestions here r extreme nerfs thus far. Has no one here ever bring 5 of these?

    They are a bit to glass canon. If the enemy has archers you can say goodbye to your investment.
  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Registered Users Posts: 955
    yst said:

    U guys r severely underestimating halbediers. Lets just say CA has perfected this unit.

    All the suggestions here r extreme nerfs thus far. Has no one here ever bring 5 of these?

    No, no one has, because it's a bad idea. 5 Spearmen and two foot captains would be better.
  • Wyvern2Wyvern2 Registered Users Posts: 1,573
    yst said:

    U guys r severely underestimating halbediers. Lets just say CA has perfected this unit.

    All the suggestions here r extreme nerfs thus far. Has no one here ever bring 5 of these?

    I have run halberd front lines, especially after their big rework. Compared to a mix of gswords and spears/swords, or just spears and dumping more money on cav/missiles, they are an awful choice.

    I dont mind the notion of making them more of an all arounder though, sort of like empire temple guard or something
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  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 2,875
    yst said:

    U guys r severely underestimating halbediers. Lets just say CA has perfected this unit.

    All the suggestions here r extreme nerfs thus far. Has no one here ever bring 5 of these?

    How so?
  • SarmatiannsSarmatianns Registered Users Posts: 4,043
    Well, they're not awful choice vs high CB faction with limited missiles (beastmen, norsca...).

    Rank 9 Halberds will beat all infantry units in Beastmen roster 1v1 for example. Getting them to rank 5 is enough for everything but Bestigors, but even then just a small nudge can make Halberds come out on top.

    They're less useful vs GS, because of Waaaagh mostly, but also because they usually bring tons of ranged units.
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 2,875

    Well, they're not awful choice vs high CB faction with limited missiles (beastmen, norsca...).

    Rank 9 Halberds will beat all infantry units in Beastmen roster 1v1 for example. Getting them to rank 5 is enough for everything but Bestigors, but even then just a small nudge can make Halberds come out on top.

    They're less useful vs GS, because of Waaaagh mostly, but also because they usually bring tons of ranged units.

    Yeah, though if they don t get the CD properly because they weren t set up yet or distrubed, then they are boned and a very bad investment.
    And this risk is so substantial that spearmen with shields vet 5 are simply more effective coz disposable...
  • AerocrasticAerocrastic Registered Users Posts: 468
    Shielded Spearmen and Halberdiers have a very similar statline. You're paying for mostly AP attacks, longer weapon length (I think?), and charge defense vs all. Now don't get me wrong, CDvAll is strong, but when you have a unit intended to just hold, you can have double the hitpoints with 2 spearmen for a similar price. Making them cost effective isn't really the way either, I think just a general increase to melee defense and lowering of melee attack to make them a more appetizing choice as a line holder would do them some justice. Hypothetically, halberds and monsters are best friends since you can make up for the lacking combat prowess of anti large units with terror and shock damage from monsters but empire has 2 monsters they can take which is either something in their lord slot or a steam tank. The latter spending much time away from the front line to shoot
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Registered Users Posts: 417
    Halbediers main drawback is their vulnerabilty to missiles. Currently they make a good target for missiles at their cost. If they had their gold value dropped to say 550, then enemy missiles would have to chose between the halbediers or say a unit of crossbowmen or worse handgunners thay could trade with them and kill their missile units, all whilst they kill a halbedier unit that costs only slightly more than the crossbowmen or less than the handgunners.
    The smart thing to do would be to target the missile units instead of the halbediers then, whereas currently a 625 gold halbedier unit provides more profit to kill than a 500 gold unit of crossbowmen or even 600 gold handgunner.
  • OrkLadsOrkLads Registered Users Posts: 1,875
    They need the same stats as spears (ish) and instead have AP + price decrease. Lose CDvAll that never really made a lot of sense. What exactly are they doing with that halberd?

    A change like this would make them more comparable a unit to DW GW vs DW. Do you want cheap chip damage that is AP or not? Sometimes makes sense, sometimes doesn't.

    At the moment they are designed as a sort of cheaper human Tomb Guard with Halberds with their statline, but because they don't have unbreakable it doesn't really work.
  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Registered Users Posts: 955
    That, I think would also help Glorious.

    There's just no need for a 650 gold flimsy infantry unit.

    375-450 AP Spearmen with no shield

    Would see greater use and offer more varied play l
  • Odysseus95Odysseus95 Registered Users Posts: 163
    Aye. I'd be satisfied with the idea that a cheaper cost and reverting back to charge defense against large will allow them to, at the very least, complement if not replace Spearmen in matchups like Lizardmen or Warriors of Chaos, and perhaps even Tomb Kings.
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 2,226
    edited May 5

    Aye. I'd be satisfied with the idea that a cheaper cost and reverting back to charge defense against large will allow them to, at the very least, complement if not replace Spearmen in matchups like Lizardmen or Warriors of Chaos, and perhaps even Tomb Kings.



    its not going to happen unless halberdiers become OP in my opinion

    Its always better to have AP range with cheap blockers than less AP range with better AP blockers.
    Range have better control and influence in battlefield than infantry.

    Halberds wont replace the spears anytime soon.
    But with a bit of buff they would most likely be taken as second/back line defense more often
  • HolySaintKnightHolySaintKnight Registered Users Posts: 4,416
    TeNoSkill said:

    I´d suggest tho to make them more "professional";

    +15 amor, +1 MA, +2 AP, MD to 38, anti-large to 12 and Charge defense vs all changed to vs large aswell as -25g


    That way spearmen with shields remain the best line holder while halberdiers are more of an allrounder and basically "discount greatswords".

    Sure why not.
  • TeozamaitTeozamait Registered Users Posts: 80
    Melee infantry of all kinds needs buffing across the board vs large units to make them more relevant to the game.
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