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Vampirates - Changing Extra Powder

TeozamaitTeozamait Registered Users Posts: 107
Extra powder is an interesting mechanic in principle, but dull in its application with no counterplay.

It makes vampire missiles stronger at alpha striking & the first part of a battle, which is odd for a slow & lumbering faction.

The bonus will always apply as there is no way to prevent those first few shots, unlike the high elf bonus which can be played around to some extent.

It makes using the wight's ammo ability dull to use.

The ability would more interesting & thematic if reversed - the last few ammo shots would deal increased damage.

This incetivises protecting missile pieces even more and feeds into what undead do best - outlast their enemies, not alpha strike them.

The enemy will have to be extra careful in prioritising what units to remove first before the bonus kicks in.

To balance ranged summons, their last shots before desintegrating would have this bonus.

Wight's ability can be changed as well.

The bonus can be mode stronger than it is now due to it being conditional - most other factional bonuses in the game are conditional in one way or another and can be partially negated by a smart enemy.

Comments

  • Cadia101Cadia101 Registered Users Posts: 1,345
    I have this problem with most of their sp mechanics too, no downside, only bonus.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 31,308
    Cadia101 said:

    I have this problem with most of their sp mechanics too, no downside, only bonus.

    Well, they have loyalty...only you never have to deal with it when you use the "legendary" captains which are not exactly hard to obtain.

    I consider VCoast to be one of the worst designed races on the campaign layer. Effin undead Mary Sues...

  • blindjonnblindjonn Registered Users Posts: 870
    edited May 2020
    Whatever happens to Extra Powder, Sartosa Militia need to get it.


    I like the proposed idea, it is does make a dull mechanic into an interesting one. I only disagree with the following points:
    Teozamait said:

    To balance ranged summons, their last shots before desintegrating would have this bonus.

    Summons should not be more effective than baseline units in any way, they would still be over-used with no Extra Powder at all. Missing the opportunity to get this bonus would actually balance Vampire Coast magic a tiny bit. They have so many interesting spells that are neglected due to the effectiveness of summons.
    Teozamait said:

    The bonus can be mode stronger than it is now due to it being conditional

    This would be a very bad idea as it would give Vampire Coast a clutch damage boost in very close games. Being undead is already a massive advantage towards the end of a battle, if all their remaining ranged units had a significant damage spike in the late game it would be extremely frustrating to play against and would feel distinctly unfair.
  • ZeblaskyZeblasky Registered Users Posts: 523
    It sounds like a nice and fun idea on papaer, especially considering that rework bonus would be stronger, buuuut it would still be a huge nerf to all VP guns(besides Bess with double Wights I guess). It's always easy to get off first shots and it's quite hard to get most VP units to their last shots. Because most of VP guns are dead at that point.
  • blindjonnblindjonn Registered Users Posts: 870
    Zeblasky said:

    buuuut it would still be a huge nerf to all VP guns(besides Bess with double Wights I guess). It's always easy to get off first shots and it's quite hard to get most VP units to their last shots. Because most of VP guns are dead at that point.

    Losing free damage would certainly be a nerf, but I would argue their ranged units are still very competitive without it and could be mildly re-adjusted in price if not. Teozamait's argument is that the mechanic is "dull in its application with no counterplay", which is certainly true.

    Extra powder could, for example, be a toggled ability that does more damage but uses more ammunition. It could come with an accuracy debuff or a potential "overcast" backfire effect to represent old guns being overloaded. Teozamait's suggestion works particularly well, with subtler drawbacks that requires competence on the part of the enemy.
  • TeozamaitTeozamait Registered Users Posts: 107
    A lot of mechanics can be more interesting than 'deal extra free damage' at the start of the match

    As long as you have to do something to maintain the bonus and the enemy can react to deny it, it can create meaningful counterplay.

    Vampirates should be in a good position to protect some of their missile troops with summons and unbreakable chaff.

    The numbers/balance can be tweaked accordingly.
  • ReymReym Registered Users Posts: 588
    I would actually like extra power to be an active that says (extra damage but you consume 2 ammos instead of one) it would make gunnery wights more intesresting for any range units.
    But is talking about what is appropriate to talk about in this thread appropriate to be talked about in this thread ?
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